The Energon Pub

Lorekeeper wrote:

Skowl wrote:I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

For me, the whole thing reaks of another crappy superhero movie. Oh, and Rorsharch sounds exactly like Batman...

As for the characters' resemblance to other super heroes... that's INTENTIONAL. Watchmen uses the familiar archetypes to create a one-off of the familiar worlds of DC (and Marvel?... more DC, certainly.)

When I saw Pixar's The Incredibles, I felt like I was seeing Watchmen for kids.

You're pretty much right. Alan wanted to use the newly acquired Charlton Comics characters as the cast of Watchmen. But DC had plans for some of them and they wouldn't be usable after Watchmen, so they asked him to create analogue characters instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen#Characters

And now that you mention it The Incredibles is Watchmen for kids.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Skowl wrote:
I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

Then appaerently you've never once in your entire life stepped into a real comic book shop, or talked with a fan of comics over the greatest of works.

People who don't even like comics have heard of, and respect, the literary greatness that is Watchmen.

I just wanted to quote this because I can't stress this enough with the fair weather and bandwagon comic book fans. Watchmen revolutionized the comic book industry. It proved that comics could in fact be aimed at adults and do mature realistic stories. So the next time you pick up Ultimate X-Men, a MAX title, or a Vertigo title thank Alan Moore. Because without him and Watchmen you wouldn't be reading mature comic books. You'd be reading about the Joker stealing sand castles instead.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Skowl wrote:
I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

Then appaerently you've never once in your entire life stepped into a real comic book shop, or talked with a fan of comics over the greatest of works.

People who don't even like comics have heard of, and respect, the literary greatness that is Watchmen.

so what if hes nver stepped into a comic book shop? who are you to judge? maybe he was busy with other things like i dunno, getting laid, or not dedicating his life to escapism. who are you to judge.

watchhmen is pulp, read a real book loooser.

Saw the trailer & loved it, being a fan of the Watchmen comic I hope that this film will be a big sucsess, However I am pretty sure Alan moore's gonna be negative as usual about his comic being made into a film yet again.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Skowl wrote:
I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

Then appaerently you've never once in your entire life stepped into a real comic book shop, or talked with a fan of comics over the greatest of works.

People who don't even like comics have heard of, and respect, the literary greatness that is Watchmen.

Well, I guess I haven't - so sue me.

And wasn't there this huge discussion when the Transformers Movie came out about how the film will have to cater to non-fans. I work with a girl who never even heard of Transformers until last year's movie came out. I guess I'm an example of the "average joe" that the Watchmen movie will have to win over in order to get my money - and by the looks of that trailer, chances aren't very good.

I'm not doubting the greatest the Watchmen graphic novel - if so many people like it, then there must be something good about it - but it doesn't mean that The Watchmen movie will undoubtely be great, especially not with Zack Snyder involved. Many an awful movie has been made from very good source material. If I do see the movie, I'll see it with a different set of eyes than everyone else, and I'll be able to judge the film only as a film, and not an adaptation of a comic book. And if the movie proves to be a big hit, it will be because it managed to attract people who, like me, have never read nor heard of The Watchmen until now.

Lorekeeper wrote:Have you not heard of Maus, The Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman either?
Those four books lay the grounds for graphic novels in American culture.

Well here in Canada comic books and graphic novels don't have such a huge cultural impact. I come from a different cultural background than everyone else, sorry if we aren't really big on American comic books here in French-Acadian-Canada.

Skowl wrote:I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

I... I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Honestly!

Time Magazine considers it to be in the top 100 novels of the 20th Century, alongside the Catcher in the Rye and Lord of the Rings. It's the only graphic novel on the list, a testamount to how insanely well thought out it is.

Skowl wrote:For me, the whole thing reaks of another crappy superhero movie. Oh, and Rorsharch sounds exactly like Batman...

I'm worried about this, actually. The Dark Knight was heavily influenced by Watchmen thematically, and Snyder isn't the kind of director that would appear to be able to pull off the comic equivalent of Taxi Driver. I'm scared that it'll look as if it's attempting to tackle the Dark Knight's themes and fail.

Skowl wrote:Well here in Canada comic books and graphic novels don't have such a huge cultural impact.

They have next to none in the UK- Only Spiderman, Superman and Batman are known about. Ask anyone, prior to this year, who Iron Man or Captain America are, and they'd look at you as if you were insane.

You have to actively go out and read them. Russian novels aren't particularly big here, but for those of us who are novel afficionados, we'd slap anyone who laughed at War and Peace or works by Dostoevsky, thinking they're not acclaimed o influential because they haven't heard of them.

Skowl wrote:
I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

Lorekeeper wrote:Have you not heard of Maus, The Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman either?
Those four books lay the grounds for graphic novels in American culture.

Well here in Canada comic books and graphic novels don't have such a huge cultural impact. I come from a different cultural background than everyone else, sorry if we aren't really big on American comic books here in French-Acadian-Canada.

So, I'm curious, what constitutes graphic novels north of the border? Is it an unknown art form or is it all manga, or something else altogether?

Forum posting December 16, 2007.

Purchased Watchmen graphic novel from Wal-Mart of all places over weekend. Only copy there, cheap price, just under $14. Even cheaper after using employee discount.

Begins reading, intrigued somewhat. Lot of content, recalls love of 80's backissues: story and art work together very fluidly, more panels equaled more story. Very impressed by art of Watchmen, aged well.

Continues reading, begings wondering what the big hubbub is all about. Slow process, lots of text, but recognizes good characterization. However, not much super-heroics going on. Reads issue where Rorschach go in depth as to what made him Rorschach. Disgusting, very graphic, but is very solid writing. Begining to see why so revolutionary.

More reading, experience is taking much longer than imagined it would. Good thing, love the feeling of getting one's money's worth. Also really starting to feel world, expertly crafted and very intricate. Back-up text stories help make comic feel more immersive. Also, more super-heroics begin to show. Payoff is coming, really enjoy issue with Rorschach in prison, becoming more impressed with series.

Takes break from reading novel and stupidly goes on forum cause remembers seeing Watchmen thread. Figures it would be safe to take a peak into thread, sees mention of squid. Wonders how it factors in, cause already know basic of "big event" through old History Channel program regarding history of comics.

Reads finale, sees what part squid plays into it all. Think it very cool. Overall very satisfied with series, sees what big hubbub was all about. Will definetely read again in future.

Reads in forum postings squid not going to be in movie, somewhat saddened, would make great scene. Watches trailer a couple of times. Apparent changes being made, no Minutemen, Crimebusters changed to Watchmen, expanded action in Vietnam, etc. Looks like modern Superhero movie, will probably be faster paced than comic. Not bad thing. Looks at pictures of upcoming action figures, wishes Ozymandis looked more comic accurate. Still, will definitely see movie in theatures. Must see how much is adapted and changed.

Returns to thread, intentionally posts to mimmick Rorschach's journal entries.

Duke of Luns wrote:Returns to thread, intentionally posts to mimmick Rorschach's journal entries.[/i]

Damn you! I wanted to make a post just like that! Now who am I supposed to talk like?

Oh, wait...

...thirty seconds from now, I making a post in the game forum...

Eh, it's not as fun!

Is it me, or does every scene in the trailer appear to be in slo-mo?

JaAm wrote:Is it me, or does every scene in the trailer appear to be in slo-mo?

It's just you. It's a Zack Snyder movie, so there's going to be a fair bit of slo-mo, but most of it seems to be going at normal speed. Veidt whacking that guy with a pole looks sped up. (It was like half a page in the book) But a lot of it looks normal speed. Or it could be slowed down so the trailer looks more dramatic and exciting. Trailers will often have pauses and slow motion where the actual movie doesn't.

Oh yeah, something else I forgot to post last night. I find it very coincidental that one of the movies being shown in the theature was "The Day the Earth Stood Still", and that same movie gets remade just a few months before the Watchmen movie comes out. There's no connection, just an odd coincidence. But since FOX has the rights or whatever to the new "The Day the Earth Stood Still" we probably won't be seeing the advertisement for it.

Also, was it ever made clear whether or not Veidt owned that theature? Seems like a good way for him to subconsiously make the public think that Aliens may exist is to show a couple invasion movies back to back. Otherwise, it's probably just forshadowing.

I just started reading Watchmen. Holy hell its awesome. Even the excerpts from Hollis Mason's autobiography are fun to read.

I think I mentioned it in another thread but I received the Watchmen paperback from a Secret Santa at work. I already have a well loved (aka beat up) copy so I turned it in for store credit at my local comic shop.

Then I saw Absolute Watchmen and bought that I figured I might as well own the "best" version out there.

Duke of Luns wrote:Also, was it ever made clear whether or not Veidt owned that theature? Seems like a good way for him to subconsiously make the public think that Aliens may exist is to show a couple invasion movies back to back. Otherwise, it's probably just forshadowing.

That's just Moore and Gibbons hammering it in your head

Lorekeeper wrote:

Skowl wrote:
I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

Lorekeeper wrote:Have you not heard of Maus, The Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman either?
Those four books lay the grounds for graphic novels in American culture.

Well here in Canada comic books and graphic novels don't have such a huge cultural impact. I come from a different cultural background than everyone else, sorry if we aren't really big on American comic books here in French-Acadian-Canada.

So, I'm curious, what constitutes graphic novels north of the border? Is it an unknown art form or is it all manga, or something else altogether?

In Canada, a graphic novel is exactly what it is south of the border. Sorry Skowl, But unless your little part of the world is exempt from everywhere else (which it may be, that said I have never heard of any problems getting stuff around your parts, hell MOst of the Graphic novels prodused in North America are done in Quebec, and Diamond has shipped thru Quebec for Canadian stores for over a decade) there is no reason not to know about Watchmen unless you honestly couldn't care to have looked previously, and if that is the case that you are not really in the target demographic for the movie anyways.

While they may not have a huge Cultural impact on the Canadian scene, Watchmen has always been one of those titles constantly requested at Comic stores since it started to be produced in collecters editions. Thou not as many were sold when I was working for a comic store 12 years back, it was always listed by fans as one of the best works available.

Does anyone know the current running time? At first it was 3 hours. then 2:45. So far, the producers seem to b being pretty cut-happy, and from what Synder's saying, I can't blame (or endorse) them.

Skowl wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this movie looks absolutely stupid? The character designs look ridiculous, and those awful slow motion shots look even more corny than the ones in 300. Snyder is an overrated director who substitutes violence and slo-mo shots for any actual substance. Oh, and that Smashing Pumpkins song is as out of place as Linkin Park was in Transformers....

I laugh everytime I see the tagline "based on the most celebrated grahpic novel of all time". Yeah, the most celebrated graphic novel that I never heard of until now.

For me, the whole thing reaks of another crappy superhero movie. Oh, and Rorsharch sounds exactly like Batman...

The trailer has kind of hurt my desire to see this movie to a certain degree it looks like just another average superhero movie.
Snyder certainly wouldn't be my first chose as the director but he can deliver a decent movie.

The book literally supplied it's own soundtrack and said that Rorschach had a slow and more monotone almost robotic voice not a gravel Batman style voice.

I still want to see it just not as much now.

And BTW Skowl you can get a copy of it at bookstores even some depatment stores you should read it and judge the book by it's own standards.

I'll be interested to see this film, but don't hold high hopes of it being great. Adaptations of novels are rarely that good, there's just too much you have to leave out. Hurm.

(Didn't want to start a new thread)

I saw Watchmen on IMAX on Friday and again on Sunday... man, I love this movie!

I've always imagined Dr. Manhattan to sound like a god. The motion comic nails that voice in the theater of my mind. But I love Billy Crudup's voice that sounds disconnected with his humanity. And it works, especially the "miracle" speech which is my favorite part of the book.

And I completely geeked out when "Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl" from Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower" at the right moment. I love that song and moment in the book.

I don't mind the changes at all. It works perfectly fine for this movie. Like Manhattan's ex showing up during the interview. That surprised me! And the scene with Nite Owl talking to Rorschach about being good friends even with their difficult relationship. That makes me appreciate that moment with Dan screaming in the show. So sad

I was a bit bummed about the movie not having the book's final scene with Manhattan and Adrian. That scene was great because for once, Adrian had a look of doubt.

However, I thought it was brilliant Manhattan gives the "leaving for another galaxy to create new life" to Laurie instead. It makes that line much more poignant. Damn good choice.

Ah hell... I might actually see it a third time. For someone not a die hard fan of the comic, I'm enjoying re-reading and re-watching it!

I was horrified by the movie. The graphic novel had a rather modernist approach, dealing with depressing and disturbing issues from the edges. The reader often had to piece together what was actually happening in one's own mind. Also illustrations are not nearly as graphic (pornographic) as a live-action movie.

The movie told the story face-on, making the audience stare straigt at all the depressing and disturbing subjects. Also, there's no putting down a movie to walk away and later return with curiosity. The comic book's most disturbing image is the dog head. The movie has so many soul-extinguishing moments that the caved-in dog head is just another gross moment.

Bones popping through skin. The attempted rape scene. Manhattan portrayed less like David and more like Ron Jeremy below the waist. The sex scene was literally porno, rather than like real-people sex. The fighting was overblown, does every punch require wirework?

The change at the end? It was fine. It made sense to do it that way. The overall treatment? Traumatic.

I saw the Watchmen today and it was freaking awesome! Seeing this movie really makes me believe that Zach Snyder is the best young director in Hollywood, screw Terintino. Snyder deserves a best director nom at the Oscars next year. Jackie Earl Haley was amazing as Rorschach, and he was able to pull off that gravel voice much better than Christian Bale did in the Dark Knight. The Watchmen was one of the most unique superhero movies I have ever seen. Beautiful visuals and flawless acting will make the Watchmen not only a superhero classic, but a classic movie overall. Even with all of the frontal male nudity, that results in a bright blue wang in your face.

I give the Watchmen a grade of, A.

Saw it yesterday. My brother said he liked it better than the book. I suppose I do to, though I liked all of the little plot lines running together.

It was no doubt very comic accurate, right down to the dialogue in some parts, so there were few surprises compared to other comic-book movies. However, I do agree the acting and visuals were top-notch, nothing overly cheesy anywhere, so it's a faithful adaptation, and that can be appreciated.

The movie did bring to mind one thing though: Dr. Manhattan can and does make people explode. How in the heck did Moloch survive one encounter with that guy, much less several??

Saw the Midnight showing on Thursday, went with about 20 other people.

That movie rocked. It rocked hard.

For me it was a much better movie than TDK(lets be honest Heath Ledger made TDK what it was past that it was just Batman Begins 2), it was a different type of SUperhero movie. A lot of the images were disturbing like Lorekeeper said, but I think it worked well to show just how bad that city had gotten.

Best part for me was the montage of events at the very beginning, very awesomely done.

Duke of Luns wrote:The movie did bring to mind one thing though: Dr. Manhattan can and does make people explode. How in the heck did Moloch survive one encounter with that guy, much less several??

I thought that too, plot hole?

I loved this movie, I didn't mind the blue penis, or any nudity for that matter after all it's natural (ell except for a gad damn blue penis) and not excepting that is just downright dumb.
I can't wait for my comic store to get in a new shipment of the comic, that thing sold out like ice cream on a hot day.
I do wonder how Rorshach's mask works in his world.

His mask is mentioned in the book.

It was a specially made dress made from technology that Dr Manhatten made possible, except that the woman who ordered it (Kitty Genovese) din't like it, Kovacs took the dress and used it to make his "Face"

I thought that the way they did his mask worked great.

It's strange one of the few things that did bug me in the movie was that when I read the book ages ago, I didn't pick up that "Sign Guy" that was always in the background was Rorshach until he was revealed, however with the movie, My GF who hasn't read the book was able to figure it out by the funeral, as he stood out a heck of a lot more.

Jackie Earle Haley did a brilliant job both as Rorshach and as "Kovacs", he really was able to pull the character right of the page and onto the screen.