The Energon Pub

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Slight correction.

G1 toon= Skyfire not Jetfire.

Only in name were they different. They're as much the same as G1 toon Optimus Prime = WFC Optimus Prime.

I havent played the game but from what I've read here and on other threads, the personality of WFC Jetfire is quite different from G1 toon Skyfire.

It's as different as WFC Trypticon's personality is from G1 Trypticon's.

Again, havent played the game, so that doesnt really tell me anything.

I think he means they're both pretty much the same personality wise.

Ok, well like I said, I've heard that WFC's Jetfire has a very different personality then G1 Skyfire.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Slight correction.

G1 toon= Skyfire not Jetfire.

Only in name were they different. They're as much the same as G1 toon Optimus Prime = WFC Optimus Prime.

I havent played the game but from what I've read here and on other threads, the personality of WFC Jetfire is quite different from G1 toon Skyfire.

It's as different as WFC Trypticon's personality is from G1 Trypticon's.

Again, havent played the game, so that doesnt really tell me anything.

I think he means they're both pretty much the same personality wise.

Ok, well like I said, I've heard that WFC's Jetfire has a very different personality then G1 Skyfire.

Actually, WFC Trypticon is a little different from G1 Trypticon. G1 toon Trypticon was a big, dumb animal, while WFC Trypticon was smarter, scarier, a bit of a smart-mouth with an ego, and just epic. Yet, he plays the role of the Trypticon character in WFC, as G1 Trypticon plays the role of the Trypticon character in the G1 cartoon.

Sabrblade wrote:Actually, WFC Trypticon is a little different from G1 Trypticon. G1 toon Trypticon was a big, dumb animal, while WFC Trypticon was smarter, scarier, a bit of a smart-mouth with an ego, and just epic. Yet, he plays the role of the Trypticon character in WFC, as G1 Trypticon plays the role of the Trypticon character in the G1 cartoon.

Thanks for the info, but your last sentence didnt make much sense.

How can a "character" [he, being Trypticon] play the role of a "character" [being Trypticon]?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:How can a "character" [he, being Trypticon] play the role of a "character" [being Trypticon]?

I mean, just because they're a bit different personality-wise, they're both still the Trypticons of their respective realities. Same goes for G1 toon Skyfire and WFC Jetfire.

Shadowman wrote:

SJ21 wrote:The way I understood it, WfC is official cannon for the G1 continuity. I understand the argument against it, but according to Hasbro, that's the way it is.

Check your facts: Hasbro said WfC is canon for Transformers: Prime, not G1.

You could be less of a dick about it.

Hasbro has been flipping around where WfC fits exactly for sometime. In our direct phone conversations with them (yea, Staff, Hasbro, and the game developers) we were told it was a G1 back story.

That turned out to not be so solid in the end, much in the same way that the events in the game directly contradict the events in TF Prime.

Anyway, didn't Hasbro recently pull back from their stance that WfC was a precursor to TF Prime?

Counterpunch wrote:Anyway, didn't Hasbro recently pull back from their stance that WfC was a precursor to TF Prime?

Nope, quite the opposite.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:How can a "character" [he, being Trypticon] play the role of a "character" [being Trypticon]?

I mean, just because they're a bit different personality-wise, they're both still the Trypticons of their respective realities. Same goes for G1 toon Skyfire and WFC Jetfire.

Ok, that I understand.

I thought of another one.

Energon Cubes: In G1, these were Decepticon creations. In the first episode, Hound referred to them as being "some kind of cube", indicating that the Autobots were unaware of them until their reawakening on Earth in 1984. The "Traitor" episode makes it clear that the Autobots do not use Energon Cubes during this time in the war either, and don't appear to start using them until some point closer to 2005. Though, the "War Dawn" episode does show the Autobots storing what look to be Energon Cubes during the flashbacks to Cybertron's Golden Age, but this could be explained in two ways. One, it could be another of the G1 cartoon's many continuity errors and nothing more. Or two, since the word "Energon" is never actually used in these scenes and only the word "energy" is spoken, it could instead be considered an animation error.

In WFC, Energon Cubes are used by both sides during the war as healing items to recover their energy.


Also, Shadowman, if it's not too much to ask, would you consider doing another thread like this for the Exodus novel and the G1 cartoon? To this day, I'm still seeing people who not only think Exodus ties in with G1, but also serves as a means to tie in other series with the G1 cartoon (like the live action movies with the AllSpark launching, and the Cybertron cartoon with the colony worlds of Velocitron and Gigantion), instead of seeing these references as mere fan nods.

Sabrblade wrote:Also, Shadowman, if it's not too much to ask, would you consider doing another thread like this for the Exodus novel and the G1 cartoon? To this day, I'm still seeing people who not only think Exodus ties in with G1, but also serves as a means to tie in other series with the G1 cartoon (like the live action movies with the AllSpark launching, and the Cybertron cartoon with the colony worlds of Velocitron and Gigantion), instead of seeing these references as mere fan nods.

I really can't. I haven't read Exodus. All I know about it is the bits and pieces of information I can pick up off of the TF Wiki.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Also, Shadowman, if it's not too much to ask, would you consider doing another thread like this for the Exodus novel and the G1 cartoon? To this day, I'm still seeing people who not only think Exodus ties in with G1, but also serves as a means to tie in other series with the G1 cartoon (like the live action movies with the AllSpark launching, and the Cybertron cartoon with the colony worlds of Velocitron and Gigantion), instead of seeing these references as mere fan nods.

I really can't. I haven't read Exodus. All I know about it is the bits and pieces of information I can pick up off of the TF Wiki.

Ah, well. Despite its flaws, it's still worth a read. If not to get some enjoyment out of it, then to obtain a better opinion of it.

Maybe I can come up with something, if I can find to time to do so. Though, I'd have to reread the book (and rewatch some certain G1 episodes) first, though.

When we say prequel I dont think they really did it literally. 25 Years have passed since they created Transformers to begin and now they have had more time to think about what they really started 25 years ago and ellaborate on it. Expand the choices they made. Yes it was probably poorly done but they took as much material and story from the G1 universe than any other universe has ever done WITH another universe. I do agree that are a few inconsistencies but a few of them do make connections.

Shadowman wrote:Jetfire: In G1, he crashed on Earth LONG before the War, and joined the Decepticons (Not knowing the difference) because he was friends with Starscream, but in WfC, he shows outrage that Starscream would defect to the Decepticons and admits his pride as an Autobot.

That is the only one that cannot be explained cuz it dismisses the G1 episode where Skyfire and Starscream go exploring and Skyfire crashes on earth and is frozen in ice. So yes there is a hole in the story there.

Shadowman wrote:The Matrix: Optimus Prime gets it from Alpha Trion in G1, but in WfC, Optimus gets it from the Core of Cybertron.

The only inconsistency there is the matrix being given to him by Alpha Trion and being called Prime at all. Optimus Prime was still created by Aplha Trion but only instead later became a prime and was just called Optimus till then.

Shadowman wrote:Trypticon: He was built in Earth in 2005 by the Constructicons, but in WfC he was made by Shockwave, before the Transformers ever left Cybertron.

Yes but your are not seeing it.
In WFC Optimus defeats Trypticon and Trypticon falls to death death. Then later in the G1 toon his spark is revived(so-to-speak)and they rebuilt him on earth.
In the G1 episode of Five Faces of Darkness they even shout, "TRYPTICON LIVES"!
Very possible reference that he once lived before.

Shadowman wrote:Optimus Prime's Origins: he was a dock worker named Orion Pax before being nearly killed by Megatron, then was rebuilt by Alpha Trion, who gave him the Matrix and the name Optimus Prime. In WfC, he was an archivist named Optimus, became Prime after the Council named him as such, and got the Matrix from the Core of Cybertron.

Again I refer to the whole Alpha Trion thing.
He still cloud have been all that he was in the G1 toon and then time passed and Optimus later became an archivist.

Shadowman wrote:Air Raid and Silverbolt: Built by Optimus Prime, Alpha Trion and Vector Sigma out of retrofitted Earth planes in 1985, and for a time actually believed the Decepticons weren't as evil as the Autobots let on. In WfC, they had been fighting in the war for some time, Jetfire was part of their team, and they knew how evil the Decepticons could be.

The only explanation for that is they could have embellished how long the Arielbots actually stayed in that time. If you look in the G1 episode "War Dawn" The Arielbots traveled back in time and fought along side Optimus against Megatron. So there is that alternate connection.


But alot if it also has to do with Hasbro. They want them to create characters that they can sell as toys and maybe Hasbro for some reason does not want to sell a Alpha Trion toy hence the reason they probably changed the story around.
I think it is very much a prequel to the G1 toon with only minor inconsistencies.

NiteStar wrote:When we say prequel I dont think they really did it literally.

They didn't do it at all.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:The Matrix: Optimus Prime gets it from Alpha Trion in G1, but in WfC, Optimus gets it from the Core of Cybertron.

The only inconsistency there is the matrix being given to him by Alpha Trion and being called Prime at all. Optimus Prime was still created by Aplha Trion but only instead later became a prime and was just called Optimus till then.

Alpha Trion states it himself: "You may not recognize him. He is no longer Orion Pax. He is the first of our new defenders... Optimus Prime."

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Optimus Prime's Origins: he was a dock worker named Orion Pax before being nearly killed by Megatron, then was rebuilt by Alpha Trion, who gave him the Matrix and the name Optimus Prime. In WfC, he was an archivist named Optimus, became Prime after the Council named him as such, and got the Matrix from the Core of Cybertron.

Again I refer to the whole Alpha Trion thing.
He still cloud have been all that he was in the G1 toon and then time passed and Optimus later became an archivist.

So, Alpha Trion creates him to be leader of the Autobots, he fights Megatron, then rejects the title to become an archivist, then later comes back to become leader of the Autobots?

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Air Raid and Silverbolt: Built by Optimus Prime, Alpha Trion and Vector Sigma out of retrofitted Earth planes in 1985, and for a time actually believed the Decepticons weren't as evil as the Autobots let on. In WfC, they had been fighting in the war for some time, Jetfire was part of their team, and they knew how evil the Decepticons could be.

The only explanation for that is they could have embellished how long the Arielbots actually stayed in that time. If you look in the G1 episode "War Dawn" The Arielbots traveled back in time and fought along side Optimus against Megatron. So there is that alternate connection.

Except WfC states they're a fairly new group. Even so, why was it only Silverbolt and Air Raid? And why was Jetfire part of the Aerialbots?

NiteStar wrote:But alot if it also has to do with Hasbro. They want them to create characters that they can sell as toys and maybe Hasbro for some reason does not want to sell a Alpha Trion toy hence the reason they probably changed the story around.

They makes absolutely NO sense. First off, if they didn't want to sell an Alpha Trion toy, why did they even make the character in G1 in the first place? Second, count how many characters have toys based on their WfC forms. I think less than six, of the 17 playable characters, Tryipticon, Omega Supreme, and Zeta Prime. Not counting DLC or bonus characters like Arcee and Shockwave.

NiteStar wrote:I think it is very much a prequel to the G1 toon with only minor inconsistencies.

You think wrong. I really don't know why people keep saying it's supposed to be. It was never intended as a prequel to G1, and no official source ever claimed it was.

NiteStar wrote:In the G1 episode of Five Faces of Darkness they even shout, "TRYPTICON LIVES"!
Very possible reference that he once lived before.

Flimsy at best., no offence.

Now maybe if they said..."TRYPTICON LIVES AGAIN"

I think it is very much a prequel to the G1 toon with only minor inconsistencies

Your idea of "minor" baffles me.

Shadowman wrote:

NiteStar wrote:When we say prequel I dont think they really did it literally.

They didn't do it at all.

I wouldn't exaggerate that much. This game exudes with occurrences that took place in the G1 storyline.
Alot of it is mixed and mashed with new things added but you have to remember that its a different time now and there have been many stories since.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:The Matrix: Optimus Prime gets it from Alpha Trion in G1, but in WfC, Optimus gets it from the Core of Cybertron.

The only inconsistency there is the matrix being given to him by Alpha Trion and being called Prime at all. Optimus Prime was still created by Aplha Trion but only instead later became a prime and was just called Optimus till then.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Alpha Trion states it himself: "You may not recognize him. He is no longer Orion Pax. He is the first of our new defenders... Optimus Prime."

I know that but the writers of the game are ignoring that fact that Aphla named him Prime yet at all because of how they changed the story with adding Zeta Prime.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Optimus Prime's Origins: he was a dock worker named Orion Pax before being nearly killed by Megatron, then was rebuilt by Alpha Trion, who gave him the Matrix and the name Optimus Prime. In WfC, he was an archivist named Optimus, became Prime after the Council named him as such, and got the Matrix from the Core of Cybertron.

Again I refer to the whole Alpha Trion thing.
He still cloud have been all that he was in the G1 toon and then time passed and Optimus later became an archivist.

Shadowman wrote:So, Alpha Trion creates him to be leader of the Autobots, he fights Megatron, then rejects the title to become an archivist, then later comes back to become leader of the Autobots?

Alpha Trion creates him as one of our new defenders Yes, BUT never stated anything about being the leader of the entire Autobot race at that point and time.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Air Raid and Silverbolt: Built by Optimus Prime, Alpha Trion and Vector Sigma out of retrofitted Earth planes in 1985, and for a time actually believed the Decepticons weren't as evil as the Autobots let on. In WfC, they had been fighting in the war for some time, Jetfire was part of their team, and they knew how evil the Decepticons could be.

The only explanation for that is they could have embellished how long the Arielbots actually stayed in that time. If you look in the G1 episode "War Dawn" The Arielbots traveled back in time and fought along side Optimus against Megatron. So there is that alternate connection.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Except WfC states they're a fairly new group. Even so, why was it only Silverbolt and Air Raid? And why was Jetfire part of the Aerialbots?

Again that has probably to do with Hasbro and the writers trying to find a middle ground of using the more memorable characters to make toys they can sell.
They cant make all the Arielbots just like they can never make every single constructicon ever again...but they have to use Skyfire along with atleast two Arielbots.

NiteStar wrote:But alot if it also has to do with Hasbro. They want them to create characters that they can sell as toys and maybe Hasbro for some reason does not want to sell a Alpha Trion toy hence the reason they probably changed the story around.

Shadowman wrote:They makes absolutely NO sense. First off, if they didn't want to sell an Alpha Trion toy, why did they even make the character in G1 in the first place? Second, count how many characters have toys based on their WfC forms. I think less than six, of the 17 playable characters, Tryipticon, Omega Supreme, and Zeta Prime. Not counting DLC or bonus characters like Arcee and Shockwave.

He was created 25 years ago and really hasn't been prominently used much since. Perhaps now today the creators or hasbro dont wanna go in the Alpha Trion direction.
As for the number of toy characters made,...maybe they didnt finsh making the toys they thought they would......sales?......who knows.

NiteStar wrote:

Shadowman wrote:You think wrong. I really don't know why people keep saying it's supposed to be. It was never intended as a prequel to G1, and no official source ever claimed it was.

Because they extracted a lot of G1 into this game and then hard core G1's said it was a prequel. I never did though but I can see now how it all is,.... a bit elusive in some areas but its still there. Their are definitely places that things could fit together in the story that make it connect.

NiteStar wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Flimsy at best., no offence.

Now maybe if they said..."TRYPTICON LIVES AGAIN"

Well what I mean is that the notion is left open.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Your idea of "minor" baffles me.

ok ok ...Maybe not so minor but the ideas are still there.

You're completely overlooking all the things that I pointed out too:

Sabrblade wrote:Breakdown: In G1, he was created in 1985 from a stolen Lamborghini, given life by Vector Sigma. In WFC, like Air Raid and Silverbolt, he already exists.

Sentinel Zeta Prime: In G1, Sentinel Prime and Zeta Prime are two different individuals. Sentinel preceeded Optimus, and Zeta preceeded Sentinel. In WFC, Zeta Prime immediately preceeds Optimus (and thanks to the retcon Hasbro made, Zeta and Sentinel are the same guy in WFC).

Seekers: In G1, all Seekers resemble the body-type of Starscream, Skywarp, and Thundercracker. In WFC, all airborne Decepticon footsoldiers who have a flying altmode are Seekers, and they don't look like Screamer-tachi at all.

Aerialbots: In G1, there were only five: Silverbolt, Air Raid, Skydive, Slingshot, and Fireflight; who all combined to form Superion. In WFC, they, like the Seekers, are any airborne Autobot footsoldiers with a flying altmode.

Sabrblade wrote:Energon Cubes: In G1, these were Decepticon creations. In the first episode, Hound referred to them as being "some kind of cube", indicating that the Autobots were unaware of them until their reawakening on Earth in 1984. The "Traitor" episode makes it clear that the Autobots do not use Energon Cubes during this time in the war either, and don't appear to start using them until some point closer to 2005. Though, the "War Dawn" episode does show the Autobots storing what look to be Energon Cubes during the flashbacks to Cybertron's Golden Age, but this could be explained in two ways. One, it could be another of the G1 cartoon's many continuity errors and nothing more. Or two, since the word "Energon" is never actually used in these scenes and only the word "energy" is spoken, it could instead be considered an animation error.

In WFC, Energon Cubes are used by both sides during the war as healing items to recover their energy.

NiteStar wrote:I wouldn't exaggerate that much. This game exudes with occurrences that took place in the G1 storyline.
Alot of it is mixed and mashed with new things added but you have to remember that its a different time now and there have been many stories since.

I have no idea what that means.

NiteStar wrote:The only inconsistency there is the matrix being given to him by Alpha Trion and being called Prime at all. Optimus Prime was still created by Aplha Trion but only instead later became a prime and was just called Optimus till then.

Yeah, that's the problem. In G1, Alpha Trion named him Optimus Prime after he was rebuilt but in WfC, he was given the title of Prime after Zeta Prime's death.

NiteStar wrote:I know that but the writers of the game are ignoring that fact that Aphla named him Prime yet at all because of how they changed the story with adding Zeta Prime.

And that is a major inconsistency.

NiteStar wrote:Alpha Trion creates him as one of our new defenders Yes, BUT never stated anything about being the leader of the entire Autobot race.

After being rebuilt he immediately goes off to fight Megatron. But then he quits, in the middle of a war, to become an archivist.

NiteStar wrote:Again that has probably to do with Hasbro and the writers trying to find a middle ground of using the more memorable characters to make toys they can sell.
They cant make all the Arielbots just like they can never make every single constructicon ever again...but they have to use Skyfire along with atleast two Arielbots.

What are you talking about? It can't be about selling toys, none of the Aerialbots got toys for WfC.

NiteStar wrote:He was created 25 years ago and really hasn't been prominently used much since. Perhaps now today the creators or hasbro dont wanna go in the Alpha Trion direction.

Most of the characters in WfC haven't been used as much as the rest.

NiteStar wrote:Because they extracted a lot of G1 into this game and then hard core G1's said it was a prequel. I never did though but I can see now how it all is,.... a bit elusive in some areas but its still there. Their are definitely places that things could fit together in the story that make it connect.

Yeah, there is. The problem is, though, that having places that DO fit together is completely offset by the places that DON'T, of which we have chronicled several.

Shadowman wrote:

NiteStar wrote:I wouldn't exaggerate that much. This game exudes with occurrences that took place in the G1 storyline.
Alot of it is mixed and mashed with new things added but you have to remember that its a different time now and there have been many stories since.

I have no idea what that means.

Whats not to understand? Ok Im not trying to convince you. You say what you want. Your are one opinion.

NiteStar wrote:The only explanation for that is they could have embellished how long the Arielbots actually stayed in that time. If you look in the G1 episode "War Dawn" The Arielbots traveled back in time and fought along side Optimus against Megatron. So there is that alternate connection.

But that would indicate its not a connected continuity.

Because we know for a fact that none of the Areialbots remained in the past following the fight at the energy warehouse.

Guys guys........Cartoon G1, WFC G1,War Within G1,Marvel G1,DW G1 all are different takes on the legend.

WFC can't be directly connected to the G1 show though it has a lot of homage to it.

fenrir72 wrote:Guys guys........Cartoon G1, WFC G1,War Within G1,Marvel G1,DW G1 all are different takes on the legend.

WFC can't be directly connected to the G1 show though it has a lot of homage to it.

WFC isn't even a version of G1 period! It isn't a Primax series and therefore is not an iteration of G1! It's the same case as the movies and Armada not being a version of G1.

And War Within G1 = DW G1. One just occurs earlier in time than the other.

Of those you mentioned, Cartoon G1, Marvel G1, DW/War Within G1, and IDW G1 are all series belonging to the Primax cluster.

WFC, however, is not. It is a series belonging to the modern aligned continuity (family).

Sabrblade wrote:WFC isn't even a version of G1 period! It isn't a Primax series and therefore is not an iteration of G1! It's the same case as the movies and Armada not being a version of G1.

That I'm not so sure of.

I'm sure an argument can be made for saying WFC is as much a "G1-ish" as the on going G1 comics from IDWW

And War Within G1 = DW G1. One just occurs earlier in time than the other.

What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

It's a Continuity Cluster. Primax is comprised of G1, and the Beast Era. basically, anything directly connected to G1 (Comics, Cartoon, etc.) is in the Primax Cluster, separate, but very close to each other.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

It's a Continuity Cluster. Primax is comprised of G1, and the Beast Era. basically, anything directly connected to G1 (Comics, Cartoon, etc.) is in the Primax Cluster, separate, but very close to each other.

Kool.Never heard it described that way.

But, how is WFC incapable of belonging to the same cluster??

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

It's a Continuity Cluster. Primax is comprised of G1, and the Beast Era. basically, anything directly connected to G1 (Comics, Cartoon, etc.) is in the Primax Cluster, separate, but very close to each other.

Kool.Never heard it described that way.

But, how is WFC incapable of belonging to the same cluster??

Because it officially isn't. It's part of the same (and currently unnamed) cluster as Transformers Prime.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

It's a Continuity Cluster. Primax is comprised of G1, and the Beast Era. basically, anything directly connected to G1 (Comics, Cartoon, etc.) is in the Primax Cluster, separate, but very close to each other.

Kool.Never heard it described that way.

But, how is WFC incapable of belonging to the same cluster??

Because it officially isn't. It's part of the same (and currently unnamed) cluster as Transformers Prime.

But whats "official" changes at the whim of Hasbro.

And contrary to what some have claimed, there was a time when the games creators were claiming it was directly connected to the G1 show.

Hasbro even once said that the game was created so it could fit all continuities, G1/Prime/Bay.

Now, dont get me wrong, I knew from the start, that despite what was being claimed at the time, that the game could never really fit any G1 continuity that came before.

But what I'm asking here is how can it not be a G1 continuity in the same way the IDW stories are.