The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:Hmm... well, the book does draw heavily from G1, but it also draws from a TON of non-G1 series. It draws things from the Beast Era, the Unicron Trilogy, the Movies, Animated, the various Fun Publications fiction, and more.

Though, for the G1 things it draws from, in addition to the G1 cartoon, it draws influence from the Marvel Comics, the Dremwave comics, and the IDW comics.

So, it does draw from G1 the most of anything, but its drawing from so many other series as well makes it feel like a big mishmash of elements from all those series put together.

I guess Exodus could be seen as another new G1, but the presence of elements from all those other non-G1 series are still very evident and very obvious.

Though, thankfully, it isn't.

To tell the truth I rather liked the book.

Sheesh, man, can't a guy (Sto) just ask a simple question? He's on our side of knowing that WFC is not another G1 world. All he wants to know if there's anything in the game by itself that disqualifies it from appearing to be another G1 world.

Thank you very much.

It seems your one of the only members that seems to get me.

I always look at things from both sides and in a broader fashion..

Dude, ever hear of artistic license? IDW made Galvatron a different guy than Megatron, among many other changes, and yet that world is still a G1 world.

Though, WFC Omega Supreme is still a guardian. He protects the Omega Gate and the Core from danger. That is still him being a guardian of some sort.

And the Matrix is so a symbol of leadership in the game, as Optimus' possessing it symbolizes Cybertron's recognition of him as "Leader of the Free Autobots".

Though, while not stated in the game by itself, the lore of WFC (which includes Exodus) reveals that Optimus was not the first one to bear the Matrix, as it was original carried by Prima, as the jeweled hilt of his sword, the Star Saber.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And that means what, exactly?

It "means" nothing.

But it allows for the possibility of a connection.

So, I ask his question to everyone again. Is there anything in just the game alone, without looking at any external info outside of the game, that prevents it from possibly being another G1 world?

Ignore the G1 cartoon. Ignore the G1 Marvel Comics. Ignore the G1 Dreamwave comics. Ignore the G1 IDW comics. Ignore all these specifics. Think of G1 in a more broad manner, with there being multiple Generation 1 realities. What inside just the game by itself, prevents it from being another new one of these different G1 realities?

you have a way with words.

Sabrblade wrote:Though, while not stated in the game by itself, the lore of WFC (which includes Exodus) reveals that Optimus was not the first one to bear the Matrix, as it was original carried by Prima, as the jeweled hilt of his sword, the Star Saber.

That's not WfC, that's just Prima's backstory, which, since he's one of the Original 13, applies to everything he's in. That said, in every G1 continuity, Optimus receives the Matrix from another Transformer, and it's explicitly stated the last guy to use it died recently. (Nova Prime qualifies as dead in IDW)

Sabrblade wrote:Ignore the G1 cartoon. Ignore the G1 Marvel Comics. Ignore the G1 Dreamwave comics. Ignore the G1 IDW comics. Ignore all these specifics. Think of G1 in a more broad manner, with there being multiple Generation 1 realities. What inside just the game by itself, prevents it from being another new one of these different G1 realities?

Nothing. What inside any other series prevents them from being different G1 realities?

Shadowman wrote:That's not WfC, that's just Prima's backstory, which, since he's one of the Original 13, applies to everything he's in.

It is in regards to particularly the WFC Matrix of Leadership. Someone claimed that WFC Optimus was the first Prime to possess the WFC Matrix, which isn't true since we see Prima (in his modern Aligned design) possessing it in the above image.

Shadowman wrote:That said, in every G1 continuity, Optimus receives the Matrix from another Transformer, and it's explicitly stated the last guy to use it died recently. (Nova Prime qualifies as dead in IDW)

Nuh uh. In the "I Am Optimus Prime" Robot Heroes book (which is a G1verse story), Optimus gets it from Primus himself, who doesn't die.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Ignore the G1 cartoon. Ignore the G1 Marvel Comics. Ignore the G1 Dreamwave comics. Ignore the G1 IDW comics. Ignore all these specifics. Think of G1 in a more broad manner, with there being multiple Generation 1 realities. What inside just the game by itself, prevents it from being another new one of these different G1 realities?

Nothing. What inside any other series prevents them from being different G1 realities?

I guess the most basic thing would be the character design. RiD, the Unicron Trilogy, the Movies, Animated, and now Prime have all had their own unique character designs that differed enough from the G1 character designs to make each of them their own things. Homages aside, that is, but even those varied in some ways.

For something extra special, in RiD, the dominant enemy faction is the Predacons, while the Decepticons exist only as a subgroup.

If you can answer this better, I'll let you take a shot at it. So, let me use a different example. What is there in just the Armada cartoon that prevents it from being another G1 world?

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Ignore the G1 cartoon. Ignore the G1 Marvel Comics. Ignore the G1 Dreamwave comics. Ignore the G1 IDW comics. Ignore all these specifics. Think of G1 in a more broad manner, with there being multiple Generation 1 realities. What inside just the game by itself, prevents it from being another new one of these different G1 realities?

Nothing. What inside any other series prevents them from being different G1 realities?

I guess the most basic thing would be the character design. RiD, the Unicron Trilogy, the Movies, Animated, and now Prime have all had their own unique character designs that differed enough from the G1 character designs to make each of them their own things. Homages aside, that is, but even those varied in some ways.

And it's the same with WfC. Megatron and Zeta Prime, for instance, are noticeably different from their G1 designs. Other characters at least have design elements that separate them from their G1 counterparts; Bumblebee is much stockier and has thicker arms, Optimus has a broader chest with different windows and wheels on his back. Not to mention the while Tron aesthetic everyone uses.

Sabrblade wrote:If you can answer this better, I'll let you take a shot at it. So, let me use a different example. What is there in just the Armada cartoon that prevents it from being another G1 world?

I already asked that. I didn't name Armada specifically, but I already asked that.

Instead, I'll just tell you what I'm trying to do; basically, I'm using this logic against you. What you and sto are trying to say (Despite not believing it, which makes me wonder why you'd make arguments you don't agree with) is that there's nothing in WfC or Exodus that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes. But the flaw in that thinking is that there's nothing in any series that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes, even though we know they aren't,

Shadowman wrote:Nothing. What inside any other series prevents them from being different G1 realities?

Thats a difficult question in all honesty.

If we were going to use the Unicron trilogy as an example, I would think the existence of a 3rd race fits the answer, but that just an opinion.

Sabrblade wrote:I guess the most basic thing would be the character design. RiD, the Unicron Trilogy, the Movies, Animated, and now Prime have all had their own unique character designs that differed enough from the G1 character designs to make each of them their own things. Homages aside, that is, but even those varied in some ways.

For something extra special, in RiD, the dominant enemy faction is the Predacons, while the Decepticons exist only as a subgroup.

I pretty much see it the same way, less emphasis on the design issues.

Shadowman wrote:What you and sto are trying to say (Despite not believing it, which makes me wonder why you'd make arguments you don't agree with) is that there's nothing in WfC or Exodus that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes. But the flaw in that thinking is that there's nothing in any series that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes, even though we know they aren't,

Actually no, I'm not trying to "say" anything and I'm not engaging an argument.I'm just asking the question.

And sure, one could ask the question of just about any tf series.But I feel the similarities in the game and the book give good reason to ask it, while other series dont have as many reasons to ask it.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:That's not WfC, that's just Prima's backstory, which, since he's one of the Original 13, applies to everything he's in.

It is in regards to particularly the WFC Matrix of Leadership. Someone claimed that WFC Optimus was the first Prime to possess the WFC Matrix, which isn't true since we see Prima (in his modern Aligned design) possessing it in the above image.

I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

Not Beast Wars. Had it not been for the G1 references they put in later on, we could have assumed that Autobots and Decepticons didn't even exist in this series. The entire shows so completely different from G1 that it could have been its own reality separate from G1, had it not been eventually retconned in. The only thing that made this show bare any resemblance to G1 at the time was the "Transformers" part of the title (which was written as the subheading for once), the presences of energon (which itself was given a facelift) and the fact that these two factions of warring characters were robots that could transform (which itself is a trait belong to many shows of many non-TF franchises).

That does not count since it's actually G1 and was made before Hasbro decided to reboot the franchise every few years.

Also, how many times do you want to point out that you've read Exodus and that it's connected to WFC? Seriously, we know already.
Also, this insane discussion and argument by you and sto is not about Exodus, it's about WFC on it's own and not it's expansions.

And I know what creative licence is, what's to stop me from saying that Movie Bumblebee is the same guy Armada Hot Shot, just with artistic licences taken?

Dead Metal wrote:I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

Either way, theres nothing stated in the game that says Optimus was the first tf to get the matrix.

That does not count since it's actually G1 and was made before Hasbro decided to reboot the franchise every few years.

It counts because when it was first produced it wasnt a "fact" that it was connected to G1.

Also, this insane discussion and argument by you and sto is not about Exodus, it's about WFC on it's own and not it's expansions.

As it is connected its a valid point to make.

And in all honesty, if you feel I and sb are engaging in an "insane discussion", why waste your time, and ours, by replying?

And I know what creative licence is, what's to stop me from saying that Movie Bumblebee is the same guy Armada Hot Shot, just with artistic licences taken?

you can try making that argument if you like.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

Either way, theres nothing stated in the game that says Optimus was the first tf to get the matrix.

There's nothing stated in the game that says Optimus wasn't the first Matrix Bearer.

Shadowman wrote:And it's the same with WfC. Megatron and Zeta Prime, for instance, are noticeably different from their G1 designs. Other characters at least have design elements that separate them from their G1 counterparts; Bumblebee is much stockier and has thicker arms, Optimus has a broader chest with different windows and wheels on his back. Not to mention the while Tron aesthetic everyone uses.

Still, there designs are very reminiscent of the G1 designs. They're about as (or maybe a little moreso) different from the G1 designs as the War Within designs were, yet those were design to be pre-G1 designs. One who wanted to could say that these WFC designs do bear a good resemblance to another type of pre-G1 design. Though, they are still fairly unique enough to not be another G1.

Shadowman wrote:I already asked that. I didn't name Armada specifically, but I already asked that.

I know that. I simply asked it back at you to give you fair shot at it too.

Shadowman wrote:Instead, I'll just tell you what I'm trying to do; basically, I'm using this logic against you. What you and sto are trying to say (Despite not believing it, which makes me wonder why you'd make arguments you don't agree with) is that there's nothing in WfC or Exodus that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes. But the flaw in that thinking is that there's nothing in any series that can conclusively say they aren't simply G1 side-universes, even though we know they aren't,

You raise a good point. Though, think about this for a moment. Back when Armada started up, it was pretty much a given that it was not another G1 world and was a completely different kind of world entirely. What was it about Armada that made us come to this realization to quickly?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Nothing. What inside any other series prevents them from being different G1 realities?

Thats a difficult question in all honesty.

Indeed it is. And if we can find a workable answer to it, we'll all be a little smarter than we think we are.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:If we were going to use the Unicron trilogy as an example, I would think the existence of a 3rd race fits the answer, but that just an opinion.

Well, like you said before, new things get retconned into G1 all the time. There could be a G1 world that has a lesser third race like Mini-Cons existing in it. Why, the Classics comics provided a post-Marvel G1 origin for its Mini-Cons, having them be created by the Last Autobot.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And sure, one could ask the question of just about any tf series.But I feel the similarities in the game and the book give good reason to ask it, while other series dont have as many reasons to ask it.

Like what I said above to Shadowman what was it about those other series that made us instantly know that they were not simply other G1 worlds? Like what was it about Armada that made us so sure that it was a completely different kind of world from a G1 world?

Dead Metal wrote:I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

There's still nothing in the game that says that no bot ever had the Matrix before Optimus got it from the Core.

Dead Metal wrote:That does not count since it's actually G1 and was made before Hasbro decided to reboot the franchise every few years.

Back when it was first created, it had little-to-nothing to with, much less was even connected to, G1. The connections were made to it until the later as the show went on.

Dead Metal wrote:And I know what creative licence is, what's to stop me from saying that Movie Bumblebee is the same guy Armada Hot Shot, just with artistic licences taken?

Arms turning into weaponry and Omega Supreme acting like a key (in addition to be a guardian) are not that drastic of changes to say that the game isn't G1 to one who wanted to think that it was G1. All I was saying is that there have been bigger changes than that made to actual G1 fiction, and none of them changed them from being G1 fiction.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

Either way, theres nothing stated in the game that says Optimus was the first tf to get the matrix.

There's nothing stated in the game that says Optimus wasn't the first Matrix Bearer.

But why even assume that in the first place?

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And it's the same with WfC. Megatron and Zeta Prime, for instance, are noticeably different from their G1 designs. Other characters at least have design elements that separate them from their G1 counterparts; Bumblebee is much stockier and has thicker arms, Optimus has a broader chest with different windows and wheels on his back. Not to mention the while Tron aesthetic everyone uses.

Still, there designs are very reminiscent of the G1 designs. They're about as (or maybe a little moreso) different from the G1 designs as the War Within designs were, yet those were design to be pre-G1 designs. One who wanted to could say that these WFC designs do bear a good resemblance to another type of pre-G1 design. Though, they are still fairly unique enough to not be another G1.

Animated's designs were much closer to G1 than WfC's were.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I already asked that. I didn't name Armada specifically, but I already asked that.

I knaw that. I simply asked it back at you to give you fair shot at it too.

I have no idea what that even means. I was trying to prove a point by asking that, there's really no reason for me to answer it.

But here's a question--a genuine one, mind you--that someone might be able to answer; if all of us agree that WfC is not connected to G1, why is this conversation going on? Why are you two arguing a point that you don't even believe in? It makes no sense to me.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I said that, Optimus Prime is still the first Transformer to receive it in that continuity, Prima does not count since he's one of the 13 not a Transformer plus he most likely made it. On top of that, the question was what in WFC, note WFC and not Exodus, makes it not another G1.

Either way, theres nothing stated in the game that says Optimus was the first tf to get the matrix.

There's nothing stated in the game that says Optimus wasn't the first Matrix Bearer.

But why even assume that in the first place?

Because the Core of Cybertron is shown extracting a piece of it's spark to give to Optimus. It never mentioned previous Matrix Bearers, so we can assume Optimus was the first.

DP

Shadowman wrote:There's nothing stated in the game that says Optimus wasn't the first Matrix Bearer.

And your point is??I never made a claim stating Optimus WAS the first TF to get the matrix.

Sabrblade wrote:Indeed it is. And if we can find a workable answer to it, we'll all be a little smarter than we think we are.

Well, like you said before, new things get retconned into G1 all the time. There could be a G1 world that has a lesser third race like Mini-Cons existing in it. Why, the Classics comics provided a post-Marvel G1 origin for its Mini-Cons, having them be created by the Last Autobot.

Also true

Shadowman wrote:Animated's designs were much closer to G1 than WfC's were.

Thats your opinion, and you have a right to it.

But I dont completely agree.But thats how opinions work.

But here's a question--a genuine one, mind you--that someone might be able to answer; if all of us agree that WfC is not connected to G1, why is this conversation going on? Why are you two arguing a point that you don't even believe in? It makes no sense to me.

Wow,this is the 4th comment in 2 days refering to this conversation as an "argument".Seems you guys are gunning for an argument when all I'm asking is a question. It makes no sence to you because your geared at having an argument.

Neither SB or I are trying to have an argument or debate.

We are just talking and asking questions.Neither of us has a stake in the outcome.

I asked the question simplely because Hasbro has a tendency to change their minds on continuity issues.I just wanted to know if there was anything in the game that rules out the G1 possibilities.

Because the Core of Cybertron is shown extracting a piece of it's spark to give to Optimus. It never mentioned previous Matrix Bearers, so we can assume Optimus was the first.

You can assume that, but even what you posted doesnt support the assumption.It only shows us putting the spark in the matrix, it doesnt say its creating the matrix.The core never said anything about Optimus being the first.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Animated's designs were much closer to G1 than WfC's were.

Thats your opinion, and you have a right to it.

But I dont completely agree.But thats how opinions work.

Good thing it's not a matter of opinion. Compare WfC Megatron and Animated Megatron, and tell me which one looks closer to the original.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Because the Core of Cybertron is shown extracting a piece of it's spark to give to Optimus. It never mentioned previous Matrix Bearers, so we can assume Optimus was the first.

You can assume that, but even what you posted doesnt support the assumption.It only shows us putting the spark in the matrix, it doesnt say its creating the matrix.The core never said anything about Optimus being the first.

It also doesn't say he wasn't the first. It also doesn't say it's Spark and the Matrix are two different things. The problem with this, which I was trying to point out, is that we're Schrodinger's Conversation; we're both correct and incorrect until a definite answer is given.

Shadowman wrote:Good thing it's not a matter of opinion. Compare WfC Megatron and Animated Megatron, and tell me which one looks closer to the original.

It is a matter of opinion not mater what case you try to use.

So, you feel WfC Megatron looks less G1 then and Animated Megatron, and I agree, but WFC Bumblebee and Optimus look more G1 to me then the Animated counterparts.

Its all a matter of opinion and perceptive.

The problem with this, which I was trying to point out, is that we're Schrodinger's Conversation; we're both correct and incorrect until a definite answer is given.

I see that point but its Not exactly the case here.

Some [not saying you] are saying Optimus was the first TF to get the matrix.As if it was a "fact" shown/stated in the game.

Which the game never states, so saying its a "fact" that Optimus was the first TF to get the matrix is an error.

Okay, now that I'm back...

Shadowman wrote:Animated's designs were much closer to G1 than WfC's were.

In some cases, yes. Though, Animated had the saving grace of having a drastically different and unique art style, while WFC's art style isn't as different from that of G1.

So I guess it's a combination of character design and art styles rather than just one or the other.

Shadowman wrote:I have no idea what that even means. I was trying to prove a point by asking that, there's really no reason for me to answer it.

Sorry, "knaw" should have been "know". Cursed typos.

Anyway, I was asking your question back at you to see if you could answer your own question. That's all.

Shadowman wrote:But here's a question--a genuine one, mind you--that someone might be able to answer; if all of us agree that WfC is not connected to G1, why is this conversation going on? Why are you two arguing a point that you don't even believe in? It makes no sense to me.

Like Sto said, I'm not arguing anything. I'm simply putting myself in the perspective of the party who want to believe WFC is a G1 game. I'm putting myself in the shoes of the opposing group, thinking like they do, in order to get help from the other side (the right side) to disprove the opposition as best as possible. I WANT these points I'm making to be invalidated, so that I can enhance the amount of support to the game's official standpoint.

Shadowman wrote:Because the Core of Cybertron is shown extracting a piece of it's spark to give to Optimus. It never mentioned previous Matrix Bearers, so we can assume Optimus was the first.

That does't necessarily mean that that was the moment that the Matrix of Leadership first came into existence. It could have existed before then, with the Core having taken it back previously.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Indeed it is. And if we can find a workable answer to it, we'll all be a little smarter than we think we are.

What I mean is, if we can figure out what is it about other non-G1 series within themselves that makes them not be G1 series, then we could possibly apply the same for WFC. Which would in turn make us all better aware of these aspects.

Shadowman wrote:Good thing it's not a matter of opinion. Compare WfC Megatron and Animated Megatron, and tell me which one looks closer to the original.

Technically, animated Megatron's Cybertron and Earth forms look closer to Movie 1 Megatron and RoC Super Megatron respectively than they do G1 Megatron.

But, yeah, I get what you're saying. Though, it isn't the same case with every character of both Animated and WFC.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

The problem with this, which I was trying to point out, is that we're Schrodinger's Conversation; we're both correct and incorrect until a definite answer is given.

I see that point but its Not exactly the case here.

Some [not saying you] are saying Optimus was the first TF to get the matrix.As if it was a "fact" shown/stated in the game.

Which the game never states, so saying its a "fact" that Optimus was the first TF to get the matrix is an error.

Exactly.

I believe the Movies are a new Beast Wars, prove to me that they aren't by material shown in the movies that can't be explained away with artistic licence.

Sabrblade wrote:What I mean is, if we can figure out what is it about other non-G1 series within themselves that makes them not be G1 series, then we could possibly apply the same for WFC. Which would in turn make us all better aware of these aspects.

ahhh
I'll have vto give that one some thought.

Exactly.

Dead Metal wrote:I believe the Movies are a new Beast Wars, prove to me that they aren't by material shown in the movies that can't be explained away with artistic licence.

This seems rather childish, but...

the movies and their characters arent centered around Beasts.

The Beast shows had Maximals & Predacons.

Dead Metal wrote:I believe the Movies are a new Beast Wars, prove to me that they aren't by material shown in the movies that can't be explained away with artistic licence.

Okay then. Beast Wars is grounded in the use of Maximals and Predacons as its primary character factions, and involves animals as the primary type of altmode (for at least all of one faction). The Movies, however, do not use either, instead using the traditional Autobot and Decepticon factions, and vehicles as their main type of altmode for both sides.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:This seems rather childish, but...

the movies and their characters arent centered around Beasts.

The Beast shows had Maximals & Predacons.

Sabrblade wrote:Okay then. Beast Wars is grounded in the use of Maximals and Predacons as its primary character factions, and involves animals as the primary type of altmode (for at least all of one faction). The Movies, however, do not use either, instead using the traditional Autobot and Decepticon factions, and vehicles as their main type of altmode for both sides.

So? What's wrong with using a bit of artistic license to change things up?
In the idw comics for instance the Swarm is a bunch of bodged up Insecticon clones while in the Marvel comics continuity they are a swarm of tiny flying black things that eat stuff.
Also there is Harts of Steel, which centers around the G1 cast in the industrial revolution America, mostly turning into trains and steam powered machinery. Before they take those alt-modes they are all shown to have beast alt-modes. But they still are G1. That's what you call artistic license.

Also on the whole faction thing, in Japan there is no distinction between Decepticon and Predacon, or Autobot and Maximal, they all share the same names Destrons and Cybertrons, so the Movie makers could have easily just gone by the Japanese lore to make their movies.

I repeat, give me an example of the Movies that clearly states that the Movies aren't a new re-imagined Beast Wars, without using promotional material, expanded universe or word of God.

Dead Metal wrote:So? What's wrong with using a bit of artistic license to change things up?

Well, in this case, the use of Maximals and Predacons is a major factor in what defines Beast Wars. Remove that aspect and it becomes something entirely. Rather than being an artistic liberty, it becomes a complete redefinition.

Dead Metal wrote:In the idw comics for instance the Swarm is a bunch of bodged up Insecticon clones while in the Marvel comics continuity they are a swarm of tiny flying black things that eat stuff.
Also there is Harts of Steel, which centers around the G1 cast in the industrial revolution America, mostly turning into trains and steam powered machinery. Before they take those alt-modes they are all shown to have beast alt-modes. But they still are G1. That's what you call artistic license.

That's interesting. I still haven't gotten to read any of the IDW G1 comics yet, but I'm working my way through older comics before I get to the IDW stuff. Once I've better familiar myself with these, I may have a better answer for ya.

Dead Metal wrote:Also on the whole faction thing, in Japan there is no distinction between Decepticon and Predacon, or Autobot and Maximal, they all share the same names Destrons and Cybertrons, so the Movie makers could have easily just gone by the Japanese lore to make their movies.

They're the same name-wise, but not symbol-wise. The Cybertrons and Destrons of the Beast Era still use the new insignia designs for their generation of factions. Though they may bear the same name as the teams of old, they're still depicted as a new breed of Cybertron and Destron.

Plus, the Japanese-only fiction is a different continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:I repeat, give me an example of the Movies that clearly states that the Movies aren't a new re-imagined Beast Wars, without using promotional material, expanded universe or word of God.

Well, like I said before about WFC, I guess it has to do with the character designs and the art style being drastically different enough from each other that separates the two.

Dead Metal wrote:So? What's wrong with using a bit of artistic license to change things up?

What your suggesting would not take a "bit of artistic license", it would require a complete alteration to the foundation of the BW series.

In the idw comics for instance the Swarm is a bunch of bodged up Insecticon clones while in the Marvel comics continuity they are a swarm of tiny flying black things that eat stuff.

Not seeing much of an issue here.

Also there is Harts of Steel, which centers around the G1 cast in the industrial revolution America, mostly turning into trains and steam powered machinery. Before they take those alt-modes they are all shown to have beast alt-modes. But they still are G1. That's what you call artistic license

this was a good example

Also on the whole faction thing, in Japan there is no distinction between Decepticon and Predacon, or Autobot and Maximal, they all share the same names Destrons and Cybertrons, so the Movie makers could have easily just gone by the Japanese lore to make their movies.

But they didnt did they?
And I feel it they had it wouldnt have sat very well with the western fan base.

Unlike the Japanese faction names, the ENGLISH names imply something about their alt modes,a t least in the Autobots and Maximals cases [Autobots are "Automotive " in nature, the Maximsals are "Mammalians".

I repeat, give me an example of the Movies that clearly states that the Movies aren't a new re-imagined Beast Wars, without using promotional material, expanded universe or word of God.

And I repeat SB's answers.

Beast Wars is grounded in the use of Maximals and Predacons.
involves animals as the primary type of altmode .

These answers are from within the story without using promotional material, expanded universe or word of God.