The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:Yeah, I liked it better for a G1 Prelude.

Well, it ain't.

Yeah, but one thing is bugging me, there may be a plain and simple explanation for this, but if in WFC, Bumblebee can talk, and in TFP he can't, how did that happen?

There can be any number of explanations.

Simple, his vocal cords may have been damaged in the many years between WFC and Prime.

Or Hasbro couldn't find a voice actor for him.

#Sideways# wrote:Or Hasbro couldn't find a voice actor for him.

Impossible, there's too many voice actors in the world that they couldn't find one for Bee. Chances are, they made him voiceless because, much like his design, they were making him more like Movie Bumblebee.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:Yeah, I liked it better for a G1 Prelude.

Well, it ain't.

Yeah, but one thing is bugging me, there may be a plain and simple explanation for this, but if in WFC, Bumblebee can talk, and in TFP he can't, how did that happen?

There can be any number of explanations.

Simple, his vocal cords may have been damaged in the many years between WFC and Prime.

*AHEM*

The answer to why Bumblebee does not speak in TF: Prime is because the makers were basing his backstory on how he lost his voice in the Exodus novel, which is also another prequel to TF: Prime.

As for why he can speak in the game and not the show, it's a discrepancy. The show seems to stem more of its history from the Exodus novel, yet chapters 16-38 of the Exodus novel are a loose adaptation of the game's events.

If Bumblebee ever does get his voice back, I'd really like Johnny Young Bosch to reprise his role as BB for show. He was a very good BB and it would help to mend some (but not all) of the continuity snarls between the games and show.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:Yeah, I liked it better for a G1 Prelude.

Well, it ain't.

Yeah, but one thing is bugging me, there may be a plain and simple explanation for this, but if in WFC, Bumblebee can talk, and in TFP he can't, how did that happen?

There can be any number of explanations.

Simple, his vocal cords may have been damaged in the many years between WFC and Prime.

*AHEM*

The answer to why Bumblebee does not speak in TF: Prime is because the makers were basing his backstory on how he lost his voice in the Exodus novel, which is also another prequel to TF: Prime.

As for why he can speak in the game and not the show, it's a discrepancy. The show seems to stem more of its history from the Exodus novel, yet chapters 16-38 of the Exodus novel are a loose adaptation of the game's events.

If Bumblebee ever does get his voice back, I'd really like Johnny Young Bosch to reprise his role as BB for show. He was a very good BB and it would help to mend some (but not all) of the continuity snarls between the games and show.

I need to get the novel huh? Still need to finish Dracula though.

I would actually prefer that voice over the random beeps that Raf somehow understands.

Would you recommend Exodus? I'm rather picky on my books, is the narration good? Is it any kind of descriptive? I don't want it to be another Dracula. Its like licking a mummy.

#Sideways# wrote:Would you recommend Exodus? I'm rather picky on my books, is the narration good? Is it any kind of descriptive? I don't want it to be another Dracula. Its like licking a mummy.

I would recommend it only for its thorough description of backstory, the dynamic in the relationship between Optimus and Megatron, and so one make his/her own unbiased justifiable opinion.

I myself found it overall to be only a decent read, giving it a 7.5/10. But, it's too detailed in the history of this canon's Cybertronian Civil Wars to pass up. You'd be missing out on a lot of information, even though it's not an "AMAZING!!!!" read.

Sabrblade wrote:

#Sideways# wrote:Would you recommend Exodus? I'm rather picky on my books, is the narration good? Is it any kind of descriptive? I don't want it to be another Dracula. Its like licking a mummy.

I would recommend it only for its thorough description of backstory, the dynamic in the relationship between Optimus and Megatron, and so one make his/her own unbiased justifiable opinion.

I myself found it overall to be only a decent read, giving it a 7.5/10. But, it's too detailed in the history of this canon's Cybertronian Civil Wars to pass up. You'd be missing out on a lot of information, even though it's not an "AMAZING!!!!" read.

Good thing there's a Barnes & Noble around where I live! I'll try to pick one up, along side with ALL HAIL MEGATRON, I hear that they are also good books.

Oh! Sorry Shadowman!! We've been ignoring your posts! How art thou? Keeping well? Good! Sorry, kind of hiped up on "Ye' Olden Days" grammar from Dracula.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??

Anything in-game that states that it is definitely not a different/new iteration of G1?

Took forever but I think I finally thought of something: WFC Scattorshot.


There is a G1 Scattershot, yet this guy is more of a new iteration of Cybertron Scattorshot.

Barricade is the same way, he's clearly based more on his movie incarnation than his g1 incarnation.

Jetfire
In G1, Jetfire/Skyfire was a scientist who crashed on earth before the war
Not in WFC

also,
In the begining of G1, there's no Dark Energon covering Cybertron

Wing Saber II wrote:Jetfire
In G1, Jetfire/Skyfire was a scientist who crashed on earth before the war
Not in WFC

That was literally my first point in the original post.

Wing Saber II wrote:also,
In the begining of G1, there's no Dark Energon covering Cybertron

I would assume they'd have cleaned most of it up since then. Megatron would have stopped using it in favor of regular Energon, and the Autobots, by the end of the game, had become proficient at getting rid of it. But I'm not getting into that because it requires me to disprove my own point.

Shadowman wrote:

Wing Saber II wrote:Jetfire
In G1, Jetfire/Skyfire was a scientist who crashed on earth before the war
Not in WFC

That was literally my first point in the original post.

Wing Saber II wrote:also,
In the begining of G1, there's no Dark Energon covering Cybertron

I would assume they'd have cleaned most of it up since then. Megatron would have stopped using it in favor of regular Energon, and the Autobots, by the end of the game, had become proficient at getting rid of it. But I'm not getting into that because it requires me to disprove my own point.

Though, if Exodus is any indication as to how soon they left Cybertron in the game (as it tells the same basic story), the planet was still infected once they departed. Yet, it was not infected in G1.

Sabrblade wrote:Though, if Exodus is any indication as to how soon they left for Cybertron in the game (as it tells the same basic story), the planet was still infected once they departed. Yet, it was not infected in G1.

And in G1, They left because of a lack of Energon, not because there was too much of it! (Well, Dark Energon)

Wing Saber II wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Though, if Exodus is any indication as to how soon they left Cybertron in the game (as it tells the same basic story), the planet was still infected once they departed. Yet, it was not infected in G1.

And in G1, They left because of a lack of Energon, not because there was too much of it! (Well, Dark Energon)

Technically, it wasn't due to a depletion of energon, but energy resources in general, as the Autobots didn't ever use energon until closer to 2005 (and weren't quite aware of the stuff before 1984) and the Decepticons had a monopoly on energon all during the war on Earth in the 80s.

Sabrblade wrote:Took forever but I think I finally thought of something: WFC Scattorshot.


There is a G1 Scattershot, yet this guy is more of a new iteration of Cybertron Scattorshot.

How does that exclude the possibility its a new G1 issue?

Sabrblade wrote:

Wing Saber II wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Though, if Exodus is any indication as to how soon they left Cybertron in the game (as it tells the same basic story), the planet was still infected once they departed. Yet, it was not infected in G1.

And in G1, They left because of a lack of Energon, not because there was too much of it! (Well, Dark Energon)

Technically, it wasn't due to a depletion of energon, but energy resources in general, as the Autobots didn't ever use energon until closer to 2005 (and weren't quite aware of the stuff before 1984) and the Decepticons had a monopoly on energon all during the war on Earth in the 80s.

Thats all debatable.

They may just have used a different name for energon.

Wing Saber II wrote:Jetfire
In G1, Jetfire/Skyfire was a scientist who crashed on earth before the war
Not in WFC

Jetfire may be a different character all together.

also,
In the begining of G1, there's no Dark Energon covering Cybertron

as far as we know.

its still possible dark energon existed in g1.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:How does that exclude the possibility its a new G1 issue?

Admittedly, it's not a strong argument, but I tried. Still, it's an element that goes against G1 by using a non-G1 iteration of a G1-named character as the basis for this new version of the character. Instead of making WFC Scattorshot look like his G1 version (as nearly every other character in this game does), they instead based him off his vastly different Cybertron version.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Thats all debatable.

They may just have used a different name for energon.

In the first episode, Hound referred to them as being "some kind of cube", indicating that the Autobots were unaware of them until their reawakening on Earth in 1984. The "Traitor" episode makes it clear that the Autobots do not use Energon Cubes during this time in the war either, opting to use Recharging Chambers instead, as seen in “Attack of the Autobots”. They don't appear to start fully using them until some point closer to 2005. Though, the "War Dawn" episode does show the Autobots storing what look to be Energon Cubes during the flashbacks to Cybertron's Golden Age, but this could be explained in two ways. One, it could be another of the G1 cartoon's many continuity errors and nothing more. Or two, since the word "Energon" is never actually used in these scenes and only the word "energy" is spoken, it could instead be considered an animation error.

Regarding the "Traitor" episode, when Cliffjumper tells Prime and Ratchet that he saw Mirage carrying two Energon Cubes, Ratchet is completely baffled as to where and how Mirage could have gotten Energon Cubes from. If the Autobots used them, it would have been simple to assume that Mirage got them from the Autobots' own supply, yet Ratchet is very confused as to how Mirage could have acquired Energon Cubes at all. Not simply the fact that he has them, but that he was able to get them from somewhere period.

While the above "War Dawn" notion could be debated, this isn't the only time that the animators used the look of Energon Cubes for something that wasn't Energon. The Combaticons' Personality Components, for example, were drawn as Energon Cubes when the script for "Starscream's Brigade" called for a different design for them (glowing green cubes with words of warning written on them, and then later colored ebony). Not to mention that, despite looking exactly like Energon Cubes in the episode "Starscream's Brigade", the "B.O.T." episode drew them looking significantly more detailed and gadget-like.

Plus, the opening narration of the first episode says that the planet had been drained of its "once rich resources of energy", not specifically energon. And the glowing orange conductors Wheeljack and Bumblebee steal are said to hold "energy", not "energon". Coupled with Hound's unfamiliarity with energon, we cannot say that Energon had been the sole source of energy used by the Transformers before coming to Earth in the G1 cartoon. If it had been, then it's really stretching to say that Hound never knew the name of the very stuff he had lived on for all of his life.

This is also supported by the Marvel G1 comics, which were written around the same time as the cartoon was, and, for the majority of its entire run, the word "energon" was barely ever even mentioned, with the words "energy" and "fuel" appearing more commonly. They even made it a point to note that the energy fluid that runs and powers a Transformer is called "Transformer Fuel", not "Energon". The only times energon itself was ever brought up was when it was being used as simply a more efficient way to store and convert fuel/energy for certain special occasions, which didn't happen often.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Wing Saber II wrote:Jetfire
In G1, Jetfire/Skyfire was a scientist who crashed on earth before the war
Not in WFC

Jetfire may be a different character all together.

G1 cartoon Skyfire uses the modified animation model for G1 Jetfire. It's only the name that was changed for the cartoon. The Marvel Comics G1 Jetfire uses the same character model that was used for Skyfire, but his name was kept as "Jetfire". Skyfire was inspired by the G1 Jetfire toy just as other G1 cartoon Autobots and Decepticons were inspired by their own G1 toys, with only some extra enhancement made to his look due to legal reasons.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

also,
In the begining of G1, there's no Dark Energon covering Cybertron

as far as we know.

its still possible dark energon existed in g1.

In WFC, the infected planet Cyberton was seen from afar to have a purple radiation aura, while in the G1 cartoon, this purple aura was not present.

Sabrblade wrote:Admittedly, it's not a strong argument, but I tried. Still, it's an element that goes against G1 by using a non-G1 iteration of a G1-named character as the basis for this new version of the character. Instead of making WFC Scattorshot look like his G1 version (as nearly every other character in this game does), they instead based him off his vastly different Cybertron version.

I dont see an argument at all.

No disrespect intended twards you.

But character design means nothing when,
A] these characters can change design from time to time
B] its likele not the same character anyway

In the first episode, Hound referred to them as being "some kind of cube", indicating that the Autobots were unaware of them until their reawakening on Earth in 1984.

"Energon Cubes", not Energon in general.

Your original claim was that they didnt use "Energon" till 2006

Sabrblade wrote:

Wing Saber II wrote:
And in G1, They left because of a lack of Energon, not because there was too much of it! (Well, Dark Energon)

Technically, it wasn't due to a depletion of energon, but energy resources in general, as the Autobots didn't ever use energon until closer to 2005 (and weren't quite aware of the stuff before 1984) and the Decepticons had a monopoly on energon all during the war on Earth in the 80s.

None of that indicates they didnt know about Energon itself.

The "Traitor" episode makes it clear that the Autobots do not use Energon Cubes during this time in the war either, opting to use Recharging Chambers instead, as seen in “Attack of the Autobots”.

same as above

Regarding the "Traitor" episode, when Cliffjumper tells Prime and Ratchet that he saw Mirage carrying two Energon Cubes, Ratchet is completely baffled as to where and how Mirage could have gotten Energon Cubes from. If the Autobots used them, it would have been simple to assume that Mirage got them from the Autobots' own supply, yet Ratchet is very confused as to how Mirage could have acquired Energon Cubes at all. Not simply the fact that he has them, but that he was able to get them from somewhere period.

And again

Plus, the opening narration of the first episode says that the planet had been drained of its "once rich resources of energy", not specifically energon. And the glowing orange conductors Wheeljack and Bumblebee steal are said to hold "energy", not "energon". Coupled with Hound's unfamiliarity with energon, we cannot say that Energon had been the sole source of energy used by the Transformers before coming to Earth in the G1 cartoon.

Hound's dialog only indicates a vunfamiliarity with energon cubes, not energon itself.

This is also supported by the Marvel G1 comics, which were written around the same time as the cartoon was,

the comics can not support anything from the toon and vice versa.

They are 2 different continuities.

So, to reiterate, theres nothing that precludes the possibility that Energon and Dark Energon existed in the G1 toon past, even if they called it by a different name.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:"Energon Cubes", not Energon in general.

The G1 cartoon often interchanged to the two to refer to the same thing. Most cases where they dealt with just "energon" had the cubes used for their reference.

Sabrblade wrote:G1 cartoon Skyfire uses the modified animation model for G1 Jetfire. It's only the name that was changed for the cartoon. The Marvel Comics G1 Jetfire uses the same character model that was used for Skyfire, but his name was kept as "Jetfire". Skyfire was inspired by the G1 Jetfire toy just as other G1 cartoon Autobots and Decepticons were inspired by their own G1 toys, with only some extra enhancement made to his look due to legal reasons.

None of which changes the possibility that WFC Jetfire may be a different character all together.

And they changed more then the name.But thats a different debate.

In WFC, the infected planet Cyberton was seen from afar to have a purple radiation aura, while in the G1 cartoon, this purple aura was not present.

proving nothing other then the possibility that events unfolded differently, which is the case with just about every G1 continuity.

So, whats your point?

The G1 cartoon often interchanged to the two to refer to the same thing. Most cases where they dealt with just "energon" had the cubes used for their reference.

And that doesnt change the fact that the "cube" is the container that holds the substance "energon".

Its no different then a gas tank for your lawnmower.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I dont see an argument at all.

No disrespect intended twards you.

But character design means nothing when,
A] these characters can change design from time to time
B] its likele not the same character anyway

I'm saying while the rest of the game seems heavily based on G1, this character is the odd one out, bearing a non-G1-inspired design for a G1-named character.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Hound's dialog only indicates a vunfamiliarity with energon cubes, not energon itself.

It was the "Energon" part of the cubes' name that escaped him. He was unfamiliar with the term "Energon".

And even if he was merely unfamiliar with the cubes, that still conflicts with them having used energon, since the cubes were the primary form in which energon was used in the cartoon. Even in episodes set on Cybertron were the cubed forms used.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

This is also supported by the Marvel G1 comics, which were written around the same time as the cartoon was,

the comics can not support anything from the toon and vice versa.

They are 2 different continuities.

I was talking of this from a creative standpoint. At the time that these were produced, the idea of energon being the primary form of energy used by all Transformers had not yet been established by the fiction of that time.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:None of which changes the possibility that WFC Jetfire may be a different character all together.

WFC Jetfire is an homage to G1 Jetfire, who's cartoon incarnation was Skyfire.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

In WFC, the infected planet Cyberton was seen from afar to have a purple radiation aura, while in the G1 cartoon, this purple aura was not present.

proving nothing other then the possibility that events unfolded differently, which is the case with just about every G1 continuity.

So, whats your point?

The point is that, if the planet were indeed infected with Dark Energon in the G1 cartoon, then it was be visibly obvious as Dark Energon radiation is easy to spot. Yet, the cartoon showed no such traces of it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And that doesnt change the fact that the "cube" is the container that holds the substance "energon".

An energon cube isn't simply the empty frame that Soundwave produces. The liquid energon within the frame matters too.

Plus, there's different kinds of energon cubes. Recall how in Beast Wars there were energon cubes too. But, these were not simply empty frames filled with liquid energon, but were instead solid cubes made entirely of crystalline energon with no external frame.

not to mention that the cubes from the WFC games were different form those in the G1 cartoon. When G1 cartoon Soundwave produced the frames for the energon cubes, they were empty frames that needed to be filled. In the WFC game, however, Soundwave could produce whole energon cubes automatically (even though the cubes in the game were see-through and always looked like empty frames when they still contained energy anyway).

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Jetfire may be a different character all together.

Sto, I expected much better from you than this. this isn't an argument, it's just silly. When, in the entire franchise, have they ever given the same name to two characters?

Also, it's not a new G1 continuity because Hasbro said so. That's kind of an argument killer.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:When, in the entire franchise, have they ever given the same name to two characters?

They did it twice in G1 that I can remember off the top of my head. Barrage was given to a deluxe Insecticon and a micromaster. Sky High was also awarded to a Pretender and a micromaster as well.

Now as for the original posting I've heard the original intention was for WFC to be a prequel to G1. But it is actually a prequel to Prime. I can agree with WFC not being linked to G1 because of continuity errors. But I don't agree with it being linked to Prime also because in my opinion they should have designed Prime near identical to WFC and bring in characters consistant w/ WFC to kick off the series. This is just my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Sabrblade wrote:I'm saying while the rest of the game seems heavily based on G1, this character is the odd one out, bearing a non-G1-inspired design for a G1-named character.

And what I'm saying is that, that fact alone is not evidence or even an indication that this isint yet an other G1 continuity.

There have been a few characters that have been "retroactively" added to the g1 family, some of them dont fit the G1 aesthetic design wise. .

It was the "Energon" part of the cubes' name that escaped him. He was unfamiliar with the term "Energon".

Thats your opinion, aznd thats fine, but theres nothing in the dialog that definitive makes that statement.

From the dialog
"that all we heard Prime, they are going to put the energy into some kind of cube, and haul it back to cybertron"

seems to me he was only unfamiliar with the cube.

And even if he was merely unfamiliar with the cubes, that still conflicts with them having used energon, since the cubes were the primary form in which energon was used in the cartoon.

Thats an unsupported conclusion.

A] we saw very little of Cybertrons past, so we dont know enough about how energon was used in the past
B] as I pointed out before, they may have used a different name for the same thing

Even in episodes set on Cybertron were the cubed forms used.

See option B above

I was talking of this from a creative standpoint.

Even viewed from that way it really doesnt prove anything.

2 different creative teams with little comunication between the two.

At least thats how Brudinski [spelling] explained why there are many differences between the 2 continuities.

WFC Jetfire is an homage to G1 Jetfire, who's cartoon incarnation was Skyfire.

I repeat...

"None of which changes the possibility that WFC Jetfire may be a different character all together."

The point is that, if the planet were indeed infected with Dark Energon in the G1 cartoon, then it was be visibly obvious as Dark Energon radiation is easy to spot. Yet, the cartoon showed no such traces of it.

I repeat....[again]

"proving nothing other then the possibility that events unfolded differently, which is the case with just about every G1 continuity.

So, whats your point?"

An energon cube isn't simply the empty frame that Soundwave produces. The liquid energon within the frame matters too.

A Gas container is a case container whether or not you actually put gas in it.

An energon cube is INDDED simply the empty frame that Soundwave produces. The liquid energon within the frame is what fills/converts the substance into energon.

Plus, there's different kinds of energon cubes.

Asnd?

Recall how in Beast Wars there were energon cubes too. But, these were not simply empty frames filled with liquid energon, but were instead solid cubes made entirely of crystalline energon with no external frame.

Excuse me?

not to mention that the cubes from the WFC games were different form those in the G1 cartoon. When G1 cartoon Soundwave produced the frames for the energon cubes, they were empty frames that needed to be filled. In the WFC game, however, Soundwave could produce whole energon cubes automatically (even though the cubes in the game were see-through and always looked like empty frames when they still contained energy anyway).

Proving what exactly?

It doesnt surprise me that things look/function differently on a alien world [earth] over close to 9 million ears later.

Shadowman wrote:Sto, I expected much better from you than this. this isn't an argument, it's just silly.

Your misunderstanding me.My original question was,":Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??"

Some point to the Jetfire/Skyfire issue, but the fact is that its possible they are 2 different characters.

When, in the entire franchise, have they ever given the same name to two characters?

Shadowman, I expected much better from you than this. you normally do some research before you post a reply, this is just silly.

A bit of a joke there , but to answer your question, it happened at least twice in G1.

G1 Autobot Pretender Skyhigh
http://www.tfu.info/1988/Autobot/SkyHigh/skyhigh.htm

G1 Autobot Micromaster Skyhigh
http://www.tfu.info/1990/Autobot/SkyHigh/skyhigh.htm

G1 Decepticon/Insecticon Barrage
http://www.tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Barrage/barrage.htm
G1 Autobot Micromaster Combiner Barrage
http://www.tfu.info/1990/Autobot/Barrage/barrage.htm

I believe theres a 3rd case involving a Target or headmaster but I cant remember right now.

Also, theres a case [maybe a few] in the unicron trilogy.

Also, it's not a new G1 continuity because Hasbro said so. That's kind of an argument killer.

A] I dont think its a g1 continuity.
But I'm asking if theres anything within the game that precludes the possibility.

So far nothing provided here precludes the possibility

B] because Hasbro says so doesnt prove anything definitively.

to begin with early statements bout the gasme, from Hasbro/representatives, clearly stsated it was indeed a G1 prequil
then they claimed it was made to fit many continuities

Hasbro changes their mind almost as often as I change my draws.

Blackstreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:When, in the entire franchise, have they ever given the same name to two characters?

They did it twice in G1 that I can remember off the top of my head. Barrage was given to a deluxe Insecticon and a micromaster. Sky High was also awarded to a Pretender and a micromaster as well.