The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:[b]
B] because Hasbro says so doesnt prove anything definitively.

Actually yes it does. The creator always has the final say on what is and is not canon. They decided G1 isn't connected to WfC, therefore, it isn't. That they only adopted this stance partway through development of the game (And I don't recall them having any other stance) is irrelevant.

Shadowman wrote:Actually yes it does.

Actually, No it doesnt.

Not as it pretains to the question I asked.

And here it is again.

"Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??"

Hasbro/Creator say so does not exist "in the game".

The creator always has the final say on what is and is not canon.

No thats a misconception, anything published under license/approved by Hasbro is "CANON" matrial.

Wether its "in continuity" with an established continuity is a different mater/debate.

And creator/owner statements arent "canon" or "in continuity" because they dont take place WITHIN the fiction.

They decided G1 isn't connected to WfC, therefore, it isn't.

A] they change their mind when ever they feel like it
B] nothing they have said, or provided here answers my question.

"Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??"

It's called Word of God, and it's a term you really should get acquainted with. When a creator says something about their work, whether they specifically mention it in the work or not doesn't matter, it is true. So basically anything you post to the contrary is irrelevant.

Shadowman wrote:It's called Word of God, and it's a term you really should get acquainted with.

"Word of God" in this case, just like in our world, can not be verified or proven with out useing faith....which is a Fact you really should get acquainted with

And besides, in this case, as it pertains to the question I asked,God is Primus not the writers.

And Primus never said this wasnt connected tyo G1.

Thats a joke, but word of god just doesnt apply to these issues in general, nor does it sanswer the question I asked, the way I worded it.

When a creator says something about their work, whether they specifically mention it in the work or not doesn't matter, it is true. So basically anything you post to the contrary is irrelevant.

Sorry but thats just not the case with any ongoing series.What one writer says today he or a new writer can just change tomorrow.

"The chosen one" is a prime example of this [no pun intended]

When your talking about a continuing series, nothing mentioned by the creators outside the fiction is a solid fact.[as facts are inside a work of fiction]

Heck, even "facts" from within the fiction can be changed at the writers whim.[retcons]

simplely put, if the writers want something fully understood by asll, they should make it clear within the body of work itself.

So basically anything you have posted to the contrary to this issue, my original question and is irrelevant to the debate in hand.

Well, to answer your question, while they never explicitly mention it's canon with G1, they also never explicitly mention Earth. Hasbro, however, said it isn't canon with G1, it IS canon with Prime, therefore whether or not it's mentioned in the game is irrelevant; if the creator says it, it's true.

Shadowman wrote:Well, to answer your question, while they never explicitly mention it's canon with G1, they also never explicitly mention Earth. Hasbro, however, said it isn't canon with G1, it IS canon with Prime, therefore whether or not it's mentioned in the game is irrelevant; if the creator says it, it's true.

Thank you for your answer.

Not sure what your point about "Earth" is.

And I repeat, writer/creator/owner statements are irrelevant to the question I asked and this issue in general.

If Hasbro had a rep for sticking to what they say at least I would give there statements some credit, but since Hasbro changes their mind on thesev things I see no reason to just blindly believe/accept anything they say.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And I repeat, writer/creator/owner statements are irrelevant to the question I asked and this issue in general.

Actually it's entirely relevant. What a creator says about their work is true, whether or not it's directly stated in the work itself is irrelevant.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And I repeat, writer/creator/owner statements are irrelevant to the question I asked and this issue in general.

Actually it's entirely relevant. What a creator says about their work is true, whether or not it's directly stated in the work itself is irrelevant.

Actually it's entirely irrelevant.What a creator says about their work in an ongoing series is subject to change at any time.

Whether or not it's directly stated in the work itself is the only relevant issue....and even then, it can be changed, but once would expect a retcon or some kind of instory explanation.

Writers statements arent part of canon, they arent "in continuity", and dont hold any sway twards future storiese/writers devating from they.

Writer/creator statements may be fun to read, and may give a basic backstory, but they hold no weight, and can be changed when ever they feel like it.And sometimes they even contradict each other.

They are irrelevant to the question I asked and this topic in general.

Shadowman, let me try asking his question worded differently.

Is there anything within just the contents of the game by itself, without having consulted external information from the company, that excludes the possiblity of it being another G1 world?

Note: When I say "another G1 world", I am not referring to the G1 cartoon, but the G1 franchise in general. G1 consists of multiple worlds on its own. There's the Cartoon world, the Japanese cartoon world, the Marvel comic world, the UK Marvel comic world, the Dreamwave comic world, the IDW comic world, etc. etc.

Sabrblade wrote:Shadowman, let me try asking his question worded differently.

Is there anything within just the contents of the game by itself, without having consulted external information from the company, that excludes the possiblity of it being another G1 world?

Note: When I say "another G1 world", I am not referring to the G1 cartoon, but the G1 franchise in general. G1 consists of multiple worlds on its own. There's the Cartoon world, the Japanese cartoon world, the Marvel comic world, the UK Marvel comic world, the Dreamwave comic world, the IDW comic world, etc. etc.

Sabrblade wrote:Shadowman, let me try asking his question worded differently.

Is there anything within just the contents of the game by itself, without having consulted external information from the company, that excludes the possiblity of it being another G1 world?

Note: When I say "another G1 world", I am not referring to the G1 cartoon, but the G1 franchise in general. G1 consists of multiple worlds on its own. There's the Cartoon world, the Japanese cartoon world, the Marvel comic world, the UK Marvel comic world, the Dreamwave comic world, the IDW comic world, etc. etc.

No, I already understood that. I'm just trying to point out that there's more to the fiction than just the game. Like, for instance, Exodus.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Shadowman, let me try asking his question worded differently.

Is there anything within just the contents of the game by itself, without having consulted external information from the company, that excludes the possiblity of it being another G1 world?

Note: When I say "another G1 world", I am not referring to the G1 cartoon, but the G1 franchise in general. G1 consists of multiple worlds on its own. There's the Cartoon world, the Japanese cartoon world, the Marvel comic world, the UK Marvel comic world, the Dreamwave comic world, the IDW comic world, etc. etc.

No, I already understood that. I'm just trying to point out that there's more to the fiction than just the game. Like, for instance, Exodus.

And I'm sure SB remembers me asking pretty much the same question about Exodus.

In that case I asked if there was anything from in side the story that definitively excluded the possibility that the Novel was the start of a New G1 continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And I'm sure SB remembers me asking pretty much the same question about Exodus.

In that case I asked if there was anything from in side the story that definitively excluded the possibility that the Novel was the start of a New G1 continuity.

Did you? I suddenly cannot remember if you had or not.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And I'm sure SB remembers me asking pretty much the same question about Exodus.

In that case I asked if there was anything from in side the story that definitively excluded the possibility that the Novel was the start of a New G1 continuity.

Did you? I suddenly cannot remember if you had or not.

I remember asking, but in all honestly I cant say I did it on this site.That topic, and many similar, were had on a number of TF fan sites.

Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

Dead Metal wrote:Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

What I find so amazing and "stupid" is just how many people dont read trew what EXACTLY has been posted, assuming things and then refer to them or has been said as "stupid".

I never said I think or believe that WFC/Exodus is part of any established G1 continuity.As a matter of fact I know and have argued it most defiantly is not.

But what I asked here, is if theres anything from "within" the game that precludes the possibility that it can be a new G1 continuity, much like what Dreamwave or IDW comics have given us.

So, if its a stupid question, you should be able to easily prove to me it cant be a new G1 useing only info from within the story.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

What I find so amazing and "stupid" is just how many people dont read trew what EXACTLY has been posted, assuming things and then refer to them or has been said as "stupid".

I never said I think or believe that WFC/Exodus is part of any established G1 continuity.As a matter of fact I know and have argued it most defiantly is not.

But what I asked here, is if theres anything from "within" the game that precludes the possibility that it can be a new G1 continuity, much like what Dreamwave or IDW comics have given us.

So, if its a stupid question, you should be able to easily prove to me it cant be a new G1 useing only info from within the story.

Going by that logic, any new Transformers series is a new G1, they all share the same basic concepts and characters. And neither state that it's a new beginning and has nothing to do with anything prior.

Dead Metal wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

What I find so amazing and "stupid" is just how many people dont read trew what EXACTLY has been posted, assuming things and then refer to them or has been said as "stupid".

I never said I think or believe that WFC/Exodus is part of any established G1 continuity.As a matter of fact I know and have argued it most defiantly is not.

But what I asked here, is if theres anything from "within" the game that precludes the possibility that it can be a new G1 continuity, much like what Dreamwave or IDW comics have given us.

So, if its a stupid question, you should be able to easily prove to me it cant be a new G1 useing only info from within the story.

Going by that logic, any new Transformers series is a new G1, they all share the same basic concepts and characters. And neither state that it's a new beginning and has nothing to do with anything prior.

They may not "state" they are a new beginning, but most have elements/events that cant be compatible, or differ greatly, with established G1 continuities and for the most part, arent designed to look or fit into the franchise as a new G1.

WFC doesnt have that quality.The designers deliberatly created this game to apeal and appear like its linked to G1.They went out of their way to use and incorporate many G1 refrances.

Now, none of that proves its part of an already established g1 continuity, but it does suggest the possibility that it can be a new g1 continuity.

Now again, its not that I think/believe/want it to be a new g1, but I'm asking if theres anything in the game that precludes the possibility.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

What I find so amazing and "stupid" is just how many people dont read trew what EXACTLY has been posted, assuming things and then refer to them or has been said as "stupid".

I never said I think or believe that WFC/Exodus is part of any established G1 continuity.As a matter of fact I know and have argued it most defiantly is not.

But what I asked here, is if theres anything from "within" the game that precludes the possibility that it can be a new G1 continuity, much like what Dreamwave or IDW comics have given us.

So, if its a stupid question, you should be able to easily prove to me it cant be a new G1 useing only info from within the story.

Going by that logic, any new Transformers series is a new G1, they all share the same basic concepts and characters. And neither state that it's a new beginning and has nothing to do with anything prior.

They may not "state" they are a new beginning, but most have elements/events that cant be compatible, or differ greatly, with established G1 continuities and for the most part, arent designed to look or fit into the franchise as a new G1.

WFC doesnt have that quality.The designers deliberatly created this game to apeal and appear like its linked to G1.They went out of their way to use and incorporate many G1 refrances.

Now, none of that proves its part of an already established g1 continuity, but it does suggest the possibility that it can be a new g1 continuity.

Now again, its not that I think/believe/want it to be a new g1, but I'm asking if theres anything in the game that precludes the possibility.

Have you played it? If you have you'll notice how the arms turn into the weaponry, note I don't mean reveal the weaponry but actually turn into the guns and blades. The jets have movable parts almost akin to arms and legs. Omega Supreme is a key and not a guardian robot, the Transformers combine with turrets so that they can use them. The Matrix is not a symbol of Leadership and Optimus Prime is the first to receive it. Cybertron has more than two Moons and a giant space station surrounding it.

Leave it at that guys. Hasbro likes to slap G1 onto everything so as to imbue it with G1 mojo.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:WFC doesnt have that quality.The designers deliberatly created this game to apeal and appear like its linked to G1.They went out of their way to use and incorporate many G1 refrances.

And that means what, exactly? Have you watched Animated? Because they have more blatant G1 references per episode than WfC had in it's entirety, not to mention most characters are designed to resemble their G1 counterparts, some even more closely than in WfC.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:WFC doesnt have that quality.The designers deliberatly created this game to apeal and appear like its linked to G1.They went out of their way to use and incorporate many G1 refrances.

And that means what, exactly? Have you watched Animated? Because they have more blatant G1 references per episode than WfC had in it's entirety, not to mention most characters are designed to resemble their G1 counterparts, some even more closely than in WfC.

Plus the "Hystory vids" from the first episode.

Dead Metal wrote:Have you played it? If you have you'll notice how the arms turn into the weaponry, note I don't mean reveal the weaponry but actually turn into the guns and blades. The jets have movable parts almost akin to arms and legs.

I have played, I got lucky and found a copy at a Goodwill store.And yes, I noticed the weapon thing.

Omega Supreme is a key and not a guardian robot, the Transformers combine with turrets so that they can use them. The Matrix is not a symbol of Leadership and Optimus Prime is the first to receive it. Cybertron has more than two Moons and a giant space station surrounding it.

Omega serves both the purpose of key and Guardian.
Yes the TF's combine with turnnets, but new things are introduced to the G1 myth with most iterations.
Nothing in the game definitively states that Optimus was the FIRST to receive the matrix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeeUZIrIDAc
Cybertron may have had more moons in the past
Spacestations can be moved and or destroyed

Shadowman wrote:And that means what, exactly?

It "means" nothing.

But it allows for the possibility of a connection.

Have you watched Animated? Because they have more blatant G1 references per episode than WfC had in it's entirety, not to mention most characters are designed to resemble their G1 counterparts, some even more closely than in WfC.

Which is why many felt there was a G1 connection of some kind.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I remember asking, but in all honestly I cant say I did it on this site.That topic, and many similar, were had on a number of TF fan sites.

Hmm... well, the book does draw heavily from G1, but it also draws from a TON of non-G1 series. It draws things from the Beast Era, the Unicron Trilogy, the Movies, Animated, the various Fun Publications fiction, and more.

Though, for the G1 things it draws from, in addition to the G1 cartoon, it draws influence from the Marvel Comics, the Dremwave comics, and the IDW comics.

So, it does draw from G1 the most of anything, but its drawing from so many other series as well makes it feel like a big mishmash of elements from all those series put together.

I guess Exodus could be seen as another new G1, but the presence of elements from all those other non-G1 series are still very evident and very obvious.

Though, thankfully, it isn't.

Dead Metal wrote:Fine is some people still can't wrap their minds around WFC not being G1, I can say something just as stupid.

I believe that Movie Bumblebee is Armada Hotshot, there's nothing in any fiction that contradicts it, they're bot yellow and turn into sports cars, so yes they're both the same guy.

Sheesh, man, can't a guy (Sto) just ask a simple question? He's on our side of knowing that WFC is not another G1 world. All he wants to know if there's anything in the game by itself that disqualifies it from appearing to be another G1 world.

Dead Metal wrote:Going by that logic, any new Transformers series is a new G1, they all share the same basic concepts and characters. And neither state that it's a new beginning and has nothing to do with anything prior.

Not Beast Wars. Had it not been for the G1 references they put in later on, we could have assumed that Autobots and Decepticons didn't even exist in this series. The entire shows so completely different from G1 that it could have been its own reality separate from G1, had it not been eventually retconned in. The only thing that made this show bare any resemblance to G1 at the time was the "Transformers" part of the title (which was written as the subheading for once), the presences of energon (which itself was given a facelift) and the fact that these two factions of warring characters were robots that could transform (which itself is a trait belong to many shows of many non-TF franchises).

Dead Metal wrote:Have you played it? If you have you'll notice how the arms turn into the weaponry, note I don't mean reveal the weaponry but actually turn into the guns and blades. The jets have movable parts almost akin to arms and legs. Omega Supreme is a key and not a guardian robot, the Transformers combine with turrets so that they can use them. The Matrix is not a symbol of Leadership and Optimus Prime is the first to receive it. Cybertron has more than two Moons and a giant space station surrounding it.

Dude, ever hear of artistic license? IDW made Galvatron a different guy than Megatron, among many other changes, and yet that world is still a G1 world.

Though, WFC Omega Supreme is still a guardian. He protects the Omega Gate and the Core from danger. That is still him being a guardian of some sort.

And the Matrix is so a symbol of leadership in the game, as Optimus' possessing it symbolizes Cybertron's recognition of him as "Leader of the Free Autobots".

Though, while not stated in the game by itself, the lore of WFC (which includes Exodus) reveals that Optimus was not the first one to bear the Matrix, as it was original carried by Prima, as the jeweled hilt of his sword, the Star Saber.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And that means what, exactly?

It "means" nothing.

But it allows for the possibility of a connection.

Have you watched Animated? Because they have more blatant G1 references per episode than WfC had in it's entirety, not to mention most characters are designed to resemble their G1 counterparts, some even more closely than in WfC.

Which is why many felt there was a G1 connection of some kind.

So, I ask his question to everyone again. Is there anything in just the game alone, without looking at any external info outside of the game, that prevents it from possibly being another G1 world?

Ignore the G1 cartoon. Ignore the G1 Marvel Comics. Ignore the G1 Dreamwave comics. Ignore the G1 IDW comics. Ignore all these specifics. Think of G1 in a more broad manner, with there being multiple Generation 1 realities. What inside just the game by itself, prevents it from being another new one of these different G1 realities?