The Energon Pub

http://jebr0nie.wordpress.com/2009/11/0 ... es-or-not/

It's not perfect, but it explains most things that people had questions about.

That's actually really good, but the thing that gets me is the Hatchlings, where did they come from if the all spark creates transformers/gives life?

Thats the ONE thing that drives me nuts....

The constructicon clones? Well, that I don't believe because in TF wiki, it states that the all spark created a race of constructicons, so they could be individuals just took same alt mode, just MHO.

Bloodlust: I thought *I* drove you nuts. Sigh. I fail at that, too.

Fanon has attempted to explain the hatchlings something like thusly: the Fallen, being one of the first creations/descendants of Primus (the creation or descendant distinction is up for debate), has the ability to create hatchlings in the right conditions.

Now I know fanon sucks, (but it did give us the "seekers" designation for one thing, and apparently Mirage was a prostitute....?), but when it comes to the ginormous continuity/logical errors in Bayverse, one needs some mighty thick spackle, and fanon is some spackly stuff.

HK Spackle. I like that word.

hellkitty wrote:Bloodlust: I thought *I* drove you nuts. Sigh. I fail at that, too.

Fanon has attempted to explain the hatchlings something like thusly: the Fallen, being one of the first creations/descendants of Primus (the creation or descendant distinction is up for debate), has the ability to create hatchlings in the right conditions.

Now I know fanon sucks, (but it did give us the "seekers" designation for one thing, and apparently Mirage was a prostitute....?), but when it comes to the ginormous continuity/logical errors in Bayverse, one needs some mighty thick spackle, and fanon is some spackly stuff.

HK Spackle. I like that word.

Oh you DO drive me nuts, but in the crazy fun way, not the mind numbing, aneurysm inducing way.

But how does the primus thing fit into the movie verse since the all spark is the sole creator? Unless you know something about movie 3 that i don't?

Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

I hate the clone explanation, especially for Devastator. He's one robot who transforms into several vehicles. On the bonus material on the DVD they say he's made of several vehicles, they never say robots. We never saw those vehicles transform into robots.

I don't really like most of those explanations, they're full of conjecture. Sam couldn't use the sliver to revive Optimus because they were hundreds of miles apart and he didn't know how to use it in the first place. The Allspark melted a huge hole in Megatrons when Sam shoved it in. They fixed the damage and gave him a jump start. Scalpel said "Need Energon" before they used it. If they brought back one dead Decepticon whats stopping them from bringing the others back? Like Blackout and Bonecrusher, but I could believe they're different Decepticons with similar alt modes. Bumblebee's vocal processor wasn't fully functional. If you think of it like an injury instead of a broken part, he'd need rehabilitation to relearn how to talk. The rest make sense to me

I wouldn't be surprised if the Allspark Dorito simply fused with Megatron taking all of the rest of the energon to reactivate him.

I think they're asking when Prime died right there, why not throw the Allspark fragment at him, I seriously don't think that the tiny shard had enough power to revive him.

12. Why couldn’t Bumblebee talk in Revenge of the Fallen? Wasn’t his voice working at the end of Transformers 1? Good question. Haven’t figured that out yet…

I'm pretty sure his throat got blown out by Starscream during Alliance.

I didnt notice any plot holes in either movie. I figured out everything just fine

Bloodlust wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

4 times is way too many, they shoulda just let him RIP at the end of cybertron.

Bloodlust wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

4 times is way too many, they shoulda just let him RIP at the end of cybertron.

I agree I think he needs get tossed in the vault and left out of things for awhile. I personally dont care for the transformer gods concept, its getting mystical stuff in my perfectly good sci fi story.

Bloodlust wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

4 times is way too many, they shoulda just let him RIP at the end of cybertron.

So are you saying if someone was used 4 times they should be thrown away? Are you saying that Optimus should be gone? Bumblebee should be thrown away too? Unicron is just another one of them, he is a character just like all the other TFs, He isnt some new random robot who came from out of nowhere, (sort of) he was there from the 80s movie, he was a vital part of G1, if it wasnt for him there wouldnt be a G1 movie. Just as Megatron was a vital villain, and Galvatron too, I dont hear anyone saying that Galvatron was used too much.

WARNING: I'm going through one of those phases where everything I say comes out sounding beyotchy. It's unintentional. Sorry in advance.

Anyway: Unicron. I don't think 'he's used too much' is the REAL objection that everyone has to Unicron. It's this: he doesn't really DO much. He eats. And orders others around. To get him something more to EAT. Kind of one-dimensional, a one-trick pony. SHNARK, and that's it. He's just uncontrolled appetite. That's not even really a 'villain'. And hard to have fun with him, because he's not even really 'evil'. Megatron may or may not enjoy his evilness, but he's aware of it. Unicron is just the hungry fat kid. BOOOOOORRRRRING.

But I second the idea of, please, no mysticism. I like sci fi, and I like mystical stuff, but it is NOT a 'chocolate and peanut butter' scenario most times. And BAY would definitely not be the exception.

HK, more like chocolate and snail brains.

hellkitty wrote:WARNING: I'm going through one of those phases where everything I say comes out sounding beyotchy. It's unintentional. Sorry in advance.

Anyway: Unicron. I don't think 'he's used too much' is the REAL objection that everyone has to Unicron. It's this: he doesn't really DO much. He eats. And orders others around. To get him something more to EAT. Kind of one-dimensional, a one-trick pony. SHNARK, and that's it. He's just uncontrolled appetite. That's not even really a 'villain'. And hard to have fun with him, because he's not even really 'evil'. Megatron may or may not enjoy his evilness, but he's aware of it. Unicron is just the hungry fat kid. BOOOOOORRRRRING.

But I second the idea of, please, no mysticism. I like sci fi, and I like mystical stuff, but it is NOT a 'chocolate and peanut butter' scenario most times. And BAY would definitely not be the exception.

HK, more like chocolate and snail brains.

You tell em Hellkitty. You often save me alot of typing, as you say what added at some point or drive home where I was going with it.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:Primus is like Unicron and The Fallen, they exist in all Transformer universes in one form or another. Maybe the Cube is like the Ark of the Covenant in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a construct to call down godly power.

We'll just have to wait until TF3 then because i'm not going to buy the Primus/Unicron thing in the Bayverse until it happens. Just my opinion.

*crosses fingers* for the love of God NO Unicron!! He's been used way to many times since 86....

Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

4 times is way too many, they shoulda just let him RIP at the end of cybertron.

So are you saying if someone was used 4 times they should be thrown away? Are you saying that Optimus should be gone? Bumblebee should be thrown away too? Unicron is just another one of them, he is a character just like all the other TFs, He isnt some new random robot who came from out of nowhere, (sort of) he was there from the 80s movie, he was a vital part of G1, if it wasnt for him there wouldnt be a G1 movie. Just as Megatron was a vital villain, and Galvatron too, I dont hear anyone saying that Galvatron was used too much.

Nothing good came out of the G1 movie in my opinion. I disliked Galvatron, I disliked Rodimus. I never thought he was that vital after he gets killed in G1, he makes Grimlock smart (on accident) leading to the technobots, ressurects starscream and tries to make Cybertron his new body. Nothing more after that.....(i might be missing something, memory is a little fuzzy).

If you want Unicron, go ahead and wish for it, but IMHO we need a newer plot device and honestly, if they throw in Unicron, everything gets even more confusing w/the All Spark and all.

If they make Unicron bad ass, go for it, but honestly I don't want the whole God phenomenon in the movie, in the Comics it was great, in the cartoons, eh could live with it.

And tossing Bumblebee/Prime/Megs/Galvy? Well it wouldn't be Transformers without them, they are central, if Unicron came into play, he would be kinda thrown in whereas the above are mainstays of the movie/series. Could you imagine Transformer without Prime and Megs? I can't, but a lot of people are not crying that Unicron isn't in it.

I would just prefer some different villian, but it's kinda hard with The Fallen dead I suppose.

5. Why didn’t the Fallen show up earlier? First of all, he was old like Jetfire. You’ll notice that on the Nemesis (the crashed ship on Mars), the Fallen is attached to some stuff. He likely was resting trying to keep himself “healthy” due to the lack of Energon. Secondly, he was waiting for Optimus Prime to be killed since only a Prime could match up against him.

No I'm pretty sure he was just cowering, and even that as an explanation is still weak

SlyTF1 wrote:Unicron has only been used like 4 times. I want Unicron! Thats just like saying Optimus Prime or Megatron has ben used too many times.

He's been used way more than just four times. He's appeared in all of the following:

• The '86 G1 movie and season 3 of the cartoon
• The G1 Marvel Comics (and the UK Marvel Comics)
• The "Reaching the Omega Point" BotCon Beast Wars fiction
• The Beast Wars Neo anime
• The Beast Wars Neo manga
• The Dreamwave G1 comics
• The Armada/Micron Densetsu anime
• The Dreamwave Armada comics
• The Armada PS2 video game
• The Universe fiction
• The Energon/Superlink anime
• The Dreamwave Energon comics
• The Cybertron comics
• The Kiss Players fiction/15 Go! Go! fiction
• The "G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers" comics
• The IDW Beast Wars comics
• The Titan Magazine Movie comics

Awesome, my first post!

I think that in Defiance, when the AllSpark created the original Transformers - not the Primes - there were the original Constructicons Long Haul, Mixmaster, Scrapper, Rampage, Scavenger, Overload, and High Tower. Mixmaster and Demolishor can be seen briefly in The Fallen's flashback in Defiance issue 4.

As time went on, after The Fallen's betrayal, the Constructicons settled down on Cybertron. When war broke out, apparently once or so, the Constructicons formed Devastator. Seeing how powerful Devastator was, Megatron decided to clone the original Constructicons to 1. Not need the original Constructicons to form Devastator present with every single battle the Decepticons fought 2. To also just plain boost his numbers.

Thats just my theory.

My question is where did Megatron get the tank threads from? The decepticon used for parts didn't have any. Rampage would be the closest, but he wasn't used for parts.

Queenambeach wrote:My question is where did Megatron get the tank threads from? The decepticon used for parts didn't have any. Rampage would be the closest, but he wasn't used for parts.

My guess would be from Brawl, he was dumped there with Megatron too.

Queenambeach wrote:My question is where did Megatron get the tank threads from? The decepticon used for parts didn't have any. Rampage would be the closest, but he wasn't used for parts.

That's a very good question. This is where I think the movie made an error.

When Ravage lands on the ship that has the constructicons, you see the constructicons in vehicle mode. We clearly see Long Haul, Rampage (red), Mixmaster, and someone who is yellow. It actually appears to be a crane, Hightower. BUT when they jump off the ship in robot mode, the first yellow guy jumping off looks to be Scrapper.

When Megatron is revived, we clearly see Mixmaster on the left, Long Haul in the middle, and Rampage on the right. So, obviously the yellow guy was killed for parts for Megatron.

Now, if the killed constructicon was to be Scrapper, then it makes no sense why Megatron would have treads, because Scrapper is a front loader which has wheels. BUT if the guy killed was to be Hightower, then it makes sense that Megatron would have treads because the crane (Hightower) had treads, not wheels.

I chalk it up as an error in the movie, unless you believe Brawl (and possibly also Blackout) dead remains were dropped into the ocean with Megatron, but then why would "need parts"? My guess is they meant for it to be Hightower killed, but made the robot mode Scrapper by mistake since there is no concept art for Hightower's robot mode.

They are living metal, that by their core functions are made to be able to convert from one style to another. Within that context when Megs was reactivated if the mode he choose (maybe from memory, maybe in a download from Scalpel) he just reform part of himself or the additional parts from the others to 'make' tank treads.

Sometimes the simplest of answers is the best to go with.

Seeing concept art seems to imply that Scrapper/'ze little one' was going to be a nurse-con, and the whole "Needs parts. Kill ze little one!" was added much later.

Perhaps, originally, the four Constructicons (Mixmaster, Rampage, Long Haul, and the Nurse), Ravage, and the Doctor went down to revive Megatron. The Constructicons gathered the dead Decepticons (Brawl, specifically) so Doc and Nurse can repair Megs. Megs gets new treads and we wouldn't have that odd confusion about how there were six 'cons coming up when there were only five (assuming the Doctor's too small to be detected by radar and/or riding in Ravage again).