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ROTF appreciation

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Dagon » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:46 am

Motto: "Ain't nobody got time fo dat....."
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amtm wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:They didn't mess up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to wrap their heads around the idea that the alt modes were shared.

It's not the greatest explanation, I admit, but it's reasonable. It could've been worse. People tend to overthink this stuff and it's just flat out ridiculous.


There's no need to rationalize the discrepancy and call people's reactions to it ridiculous. No explanation for this "sharing of alt modes" was offered within the movie. That's flat-out sloppy moviemaking, and it's the fault of the director, writers, and editors for not making it make sense by itself, not the fault of the audience for not understanding it.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I appreciate the fight scenes and Megatron's return only. At first, when I saw the midnight showing, I was psyched out, and thought it was better than the first because of the action and the visuals. Then, after having time to think about the story, it dawned on me what a letdown it was.



I think the bolded parts do well to offer an explaination of some issues people have with the film.
Like Rodimus Prime, when I sat in the theatre watching it, I was amazed by the action, but about halfway through the movie I realize that everything else was just flat. I know it's just my opinion, and that's why I'm giving it.

As for the whole Devastator thing, AMTM hit it exactly. It's not that it's some mystery why there were too many Constructicons, or why it took so many of them to form Devastator, and if a movieverse gestalt works through similar body plan protoforms, that fine. Same goes for Grindor being a differently painted Blackout and Bonecrusher showing up despite being dead. It's not that these things happened that's the problem, it's that the movie didn't explain itself as to make their happenings acceptible.
It's not Hasbro's job to explain something in a movie not made by Hasbro. I know TF is HAsbros' property, but Aaron Archer didn't make Revenge of the Fallen, so it's not anyone connected to the toys' job to come up with the explaination. In the first movie, there were things that weren't openly explained, but you figured it out through the inferences which were pretty clearly made by the movie. Why was Brawl a tank? Well, he was seen driving out of a military base, so the inference is that he scanned an alt mode at a military base, which may house a tank or two. Why's Blackout trying to get the computer at the first base? Above all the blowing up and noises, one of the soldiers says Blackout's trying to get at the files, so it can be assumed that it will be explained by the movie, and it is pretty soon afterwards.
But if the Bay movies are made for people who aren't necessarily die hard fans, then why would they have to look outside of the movie for explainations? How many people went to Hasbro to get some explaination as to why they just saw the same dump truck in two places at the same time? If the movie explains it, then there's no problem at all, because it was explained. That's my problem at least with ROTFs' handling of Devastator and the return of Blackout and Bonecrusher: the movie doesnt explain it. Do they even call Grindor by name, or does he just show up in the forest? Honestly, I don't remember, but if they don't even give him a name in the film then you can't hold it against people for being confused that a helicopter robot who appeared dead in the first movie is now back with a slightly different paintjob.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:55 pm

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Blackout, Bonecrusher, and their lookalikes in the 2nd movie are minor characters. They're basically Megatron's henchmen, how many movies do henchmen get names? The average moviegoer isn't going to care about the names of every robot on screen, especially if all they do is get scrapped. They're not important enough to get worked up over.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Dagon » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:05 pm

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:Blackout, Bonecrusher, and their lookalikes in the 2nd movie are minor characters. They're basically Megatron's henchmen, how many movies do henchmen get names? The average moviegoer isn't going to care about the names of every robot on screen, especially if all they do is get scrapped. They're not important enough to get worked up over.



I don't get worked up over it, or about any of it, but I-like many of us here on the board- am not the average movie goer when it comes to a Transformers movie. I've been a fan since I was a kid watching the G1 cartoon, and I actively participate in the fandom. So, I have more of a personal vested interest than someone who would just go to see this summers' new blockbuster. I've never discounted the idea that causual moviegoers don't care about unnamed henchmen, and I wouldn't expect them to. But I'm a life long fan, and so nameless henchmen are of interest to me. That's all. If you're a fan of something, you have a greater interest level, and maybe you want something different out of something that you are a fan of. It's not mindless or heartless bashing of something to say that I would have appreciated character such and such having a name. If that's nitpicking, that's an opinion as well. If you were or are a baseball fan and went to a game or watched a game with other people, is it more enjoyable to you if everyone in the seats around you knows nothing of the game being played and asks "What happened?" or "What does that mean?" every time something occurs?
The nameless robots, it's not that different. I actively follow Transformers, so I look for and/or appreciate different things or maybe more things than just a casual viewer. I'd have liked it if they had names, that's all, or if the movie explained why the Constructicons formed Devastator and yet there were idenitcal/similar looking vehicles/robots still around. And, for reference, I like the idea that similar protoforms may scan similar vehicles, that's fine with me. But I don't feel the movie explained it. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:14 pm

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Watching the final battle in RotF with my wife.
I say to her:
"Remember how Jazz scanned the Porsche to get a vehicle disguise? These guys look the same as the ones who just formed Devastator, 'cuz that's pretty much all the vehicles that are around for them to scan. They have different colors sometimes tho so we know we're looking at different Decepticons".
My wife replied:
"Oh, come ON, can't you tell it's an excuse to sell one toy twice to one kid, rather than two toys once to one kid. They're just saving money whilst making little children ask their parents to spend more!"

(PS:My wife is a selective Transformers "appreciator" with a tiny handful of Bots in a collection of her own: [25th anniv. Prowl,black Beast Wars Prowl,Airrazor as falcon, big white fuzed airrazor/Tigertron,Animated Bunblebee,Chinese rip off Superion] so I SWEAR she's our friend. Hold your Fire!)
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Noideaforaname » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:41 pm

If two bots scanned the same/similar vehicle, why are their robot modes identical too, especially with how distinct a lot of TFs are in these movies?
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:24 pm

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Noideaforaname wrote:If two bots scanned the same/similar vehicle, why are their robot modes identical too, especially with how distinct a lot of TFs are in these movies?

That's why I don't like that explanation. Skids and Mudflap have similar alt modes, but their robot modes are significantly different from each other. Plus they have distinct faces. Sideways and Barricade are also very similar, but there are distinct differences as well. I'm sticking with the theory that the Blackout and Bonecrusher in RotF are the same characters in the first movie.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Autobot032 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:42 pm

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:
Noideaforaname wrote:If two bots scanned the same/similar vehicle, why are their robot modes identical too, especially with how distinct a lot of TFs are in these movies?

That's why I don't like that explanation. Skids and Mudflap have similar alt modes, but their robot modes are significantly different from each other. Plus they have distinct faces. Sideways and Barricade are also very similar, but there are distinct differences as well. I'm sticking with the theory that the Blackout and Bonecrusher in RotF are the same characters in the first movie.


I've always looked at it this way:

The Autobots are true individuals and respect their differences and yearn to be their own person, each and every one of them.

The Decepticons are of a hive mindset and will use anything or any tactic to get the job done. They care nothing about individuality, only what Megatron tells them to do. Basically they're enslaved and don't know it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the protoforms are mindless drones made that way by Megatron.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby JetOptimus23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:57 pm

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WHY IS EVERYONE SKIPPING SCENES!!?! IT'S A GREAT MOVIE! It improved much more!!!
1. more robot to robot diolouge.
2. more story
3.more transformers
4.Megatron & Starscream's relationship is more G1.
5.IT GO BOOM!

I rest my case.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Autobot032 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:14 pm

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JetOptimus23 wrote:5.IT GO BOOM!

I rest my case.


LOL...I'm a fan, but even I have to say this isn't the best selling point. LOL
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby zenosaurus_x » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:18 pm

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JetOptimus23 wrote:WHY IS EVERYONE SKIPPING SCENES!!?! IT'S A GREAT MOVIE! It improved much more!!!
1. more robot to robot diolouge.
2. more story
3.more transformers
4.Megatron & Starscream's relationship is more G1.
5.IT GO BOOM!

I rest my case.

I disagree with the bold, kinda, I like the movie, but I like the first one ALOT more.
Anyhow, who wants to see the err...dogs, LEO, any of the lame and stupid college scenese and...
Devastator's...uh yeah...
I could mention Simm-No, no-one needs to remember THAT e_o

Anyhow, more TFs doesn't really mean good, most of them here had little to no lines, were generic characters, were not introduced, or all of the above...

Plus I hated Megatron's new body...but that's just my opinion...
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Autobot032 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:29 pm

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zenosaurus_x wrote:I disagree with the bold, kinda, I like the movie, but I like the first one ALOT more.


That's fine, you're entitled to that, but I must make a point here.

People say the first film is more realistic, and the second went wacky. Well, I don't see how that's really possible.

I don't care how gritty or serious you make the story, but giant transforming alien robots coming to Earth is the perfect example of "it's not real!".

Throwing in a giant death ray and a supervillain doesn't make the storyline worse. I mean it's all fantastical ridiculousness. That's how it's meant to be. The second movie embraced the silly TF origins and people are shocked and appalled.

...why?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I'm just completely at a loss here. ROTF followed the path of it's predecessors rather closely and it was bashed for it.

The brain, it hurts.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby zenosaurus_x » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:40 pm

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Autobot032 wrote:
zenosaurus_x wrote:I disagree with the bold, kinda, I like the movie, but I like the first one ALOT more.


That's fine, you're entitled to that, but I must make a point here.

People say the first film is more realistic, and the second went wacky. Well, I don't see how that's really possible.

I don't care how gritty or serious you make the story, but giant transforming alien robots coming to Earth is the perfect example of "it's not real!".


It has nothing to do with realistic...ness....I just...like the first one better...
I don't know, I guess the fact that it's in a city with tons of people around made it seem more public and serious(which it...wasn't) while when ROTF tried to do that, it happened in an empty desert...

Also, the parts I disliked in ROTF were parts that I particularly disliked alot...

People disliked the second for not being realistic?
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Autobot032 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:49 pm

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zenosaurus_x wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:
zenosaurus_x wrote:I disagree with the bold, kinda, I like the movie, but I like the first one ALOT more.


That's fine, you're entitled to that, but I must make a point here.

People say the first film is more realistic, and the second went wacky. Well, I don't see how that's really possible.

I don't care how gritty or serious you make the story, but giant transforming alien robots coming to Earth is the perfect example of "it's not real!".


It has nothing to do with realistic...ness....I just...like the first one better...
I don't know, I guess the fact that it's in a city with tons of people around made it seem more public and serious(which it...wasn't) while when ROTF tried to do that, it happened in an empty desert...

Also, the parts I disliked in ROTF were parts that I particularly disliked alot...


Alright, that opens the door to another point that has to be made.

The final fight of ROTF was far more sensible. It was out in the desert with hardly any human population, where there would far less danger, far less deaths, and the destruction wouldn't destroy an entire city.

I realize a village was destroyed and some people were killed, but most were saved and lived to see another day.

The final fight of TF1 was...."Let's take this highly trackable cube into the CITY! Full of people!" That's so friggin' nonsensical and stupid that it hurts!

Optimus, Bumblebee, and his fellow Autobots are far smarter than that. Optimus would've never taken the cube into the heart of the city. Not willingly. He would've said "No, the casualties will be too high. Even one human death is one too many." and he would've been right.

Instead, they destroyed the downtown section of a city, tore through skyscrapers, and thousands were killed in the crossfire and subsequent destruction.

There's no rational reason for that, and it's just plain terrible writing to help make a special effects bonanza. While it's great for the eyes, it's bad for the brain.

No soldier worth a damn would put a city full of innocent citizens in danger like that.

That's just a terrible, terrible idea, and ROTF was much more sensible. I cannot believe people find the ending of TF1 to be okay. It's absolutely ridiculous.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby zenosaurus_x » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:04 am

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The ending makes no sense at all, true...why would they "hide it in the city," the Decepticons found it when it was in the wall, a city would hide it even less!
I like the ending more from a...completely-ignoring-all-logic standpoint...
ROTF's ending made alot more sense, it just kinda didn't look as good on screen I suppose...
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Lastjustice » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:58 am

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And why didn't Ironhide whoop some ass on Demolisher in Shanghai? Optimus had to be airdropped AND transform twice and got to him fast than 'Hide did.


This is false. Ironhide actually is the bot who disables demolisher. The movie doesn't make it very clear, but Ironhide was chasing as it shows him closing in, but doesnt show him actually close the gap. It shows prime shoot Demolisher in the head, then Ironhide blew out his wheel which was what caused him to crash. It happens very fast, but rewatching the movie and clips on youtube I noticed it wasn't Prime as he jumps off the wreckage right before he slides under the overpass.



zenosaurus_x wrote:The ending makes no sense at all, true...why would they "hide it in the city," the Decepticons found it when it was in the wall, a city would hide it even less!
I like the ending more from a...completely-ignoring-all-logic standpoint...
ROTF's ending made alot more sense, it just kinda didn't look as good on screen I suppose...



I strongly disagree with people who say taking the Cube into the city was a bad move. You have to remember the circumstances they were facing. Global communications were fired. They had go to a land mark since they weren't able to radio back to the Simmons and the others where they needed to send the air force.

They had to pick a spot where they could stall. Yes that would likely put people in harms way, but if Megatron achieved ultimate victory(which the All spark would have lead them to the Star harvester eventually, killing all life on earth.), they were all dead anyways. They couldn't stay at the dam with Megatron already inside it, as they needed time to rally defenses. Which the only autobot the army had when they made the decision to fight there was bumble bee.

What better choice did they have? They needed time and cover to survive long enough for the air force to save them.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Autobot032 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:13 am

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Lastjustice wrote:
And why didn't Ironhide whoop some ass on Demolisher in Shanghai? Optimus had to be airdropped AND transform twice and got to him fast than 'Hide did.


This is false. Ironhide actually is the bot who disables demolisher. The movie doesn't make it very clear, but Ironhide was chasing as it shows him closing in, but doesnt show him actually close the gap. It shows prime shoot Demolisher in the head, then Ironhide blew out his wheel which was what caused him to crash. It happens very fast, but rewatching the movie and clips on youtube I noticed it wasn't Prime as he jumps off the wreckage right before he slides under the overpass.



zenosaurus_x wrote:The ending makes no sense at all, true...why would they "hide it in the city," the Decepticons found it when it was in the wall, a city would hide it even less!
I like the ending more from a...completely-ignoring-all-logic standpoint...
ROTF's ending made alot more sense, it just kinda didn't look as good on screen I suppose...



I strongly disagree with people who say taking the Cube into the city was a bad move. You have to remember the circumstances they were facing. Global communications were fired. They had go to a land mark since they weren't able to radio back to the Simmons and the others where they needed to send the air force.

They had to pick a spot where they could stall. Yes that would likely put people in harms way, but if Megatron achieved ultimate victory(which the All spark would have lead them to the Star harvester eventually, killing all life on earth.), they were all dead anyways. They couldn't stay at the dam with Megatron already inside it, as they needed time to rally defenses. Which the only autobot the army had when they made the decision to fight there was bumble bee.

What better choice did they have? They needed time and cover to survive long enough for the air force to save them.


Optimus was willing to sacrifice himself, that's one option. (Not the best, but it's an option.)

Using the citizens, including women and children, as cover is a terrible idea and Optimus wouldn't do it. Neither would a real soldier.

I'm sorry, but no, the ending is still very stupid. Anyone with common sense would've driven out to the desert, climbed into a cave or something and waited for help. They would've found a way to get communications back up. Obviously the Autobots are advanced enough that they could've made contact with the humans. It was simply written that they didn't.

Neither movie is genius material, but the first one was just full of stupid. That finale was just ridiculous. Putting innocent civilians in harms way, knowingly, just isn't something soldiers or the Autobots would do.

EDIT: Here's how the city could've been worked into the script in a reasonable manner:

The Decepticons attack the city to draw the Autobots out.

Instead, the Autobots drew the Decepticons to the city. That's just...*sighs* Aw hell, it just plain sucks.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:18 am

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I never thought about the ending of the first movie like that before and it doesn't makes sense. I guess they were going with the "hide a leaf in a tree" strategy, but I don't think the Autobots would have agreed to it. They know several of the Decepticons can fly, and a city street is basically a canyon. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. Plus the civilian casualties is something the Autobots and the military would try to avoid. I think their best option would have been to stay in the dam. Bumblebee and the soldiers there could have finished off Megatron before he thawed out. Then Bumblebee could have contacted the other Autobots, who were already on the way, for backup. Holding down a fort is a lot easier than playing keep away when the enemy has a serious tactical advantage over you.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby zenosaurus_x » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:24 am

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Come to think of it, I don't think they even told the Autobots, they onyl told them where to go, then the Decepticons tried to cut them off...
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:51 pm

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zenosaurus_x wrote:Come to think of it, I don't think they even told the Autobots, they onyl told them where to go, then the Decepticons tried to cut them off...

Bumblebee was the one who had the Allspark, so I think he knew what the plan was.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Lastjustice » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:43 pm

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Using the citizens, including women and children, as cover is a terrible idea and Optimus wouldn't do it. Neither would a real soldier.



Who here actually knows anything about the armed forces here? (raises hand as an actual member of the air force.) Sorry you're wrong, allowing civies to die for the greater good is something the armed forces have done thru out history. (during world war two, they broke the german's code but refused to evac cities ahead of time to prevent the germans from realizing their codes had been compromised.) Officers routinely decide who lives and dies. They do what they have to achieve their mission. This chivary code people have for comics and super heroes doesnt apply to real warfare. War is hell and people do whatever it takes to win.

No letting the all spark get taken and the world destroyed is a terrible idea, and which everythnig you suggested would basically given the decepticons victory. Your plans don't work because there was no communications.(which they had to go to the city to get the radios from Rhonda's pawn shop if nothing else.) You can't cordinate an offense if there isn't an exact location.(which is exactly why the cons took out the worlds communications because they couldn't fight humans head on. Having them picking us apart covertly is a way they could realistically win.)

Just to drove out into the middle of nowhere would have been a death sentence. Lennox and his crew had limited time to act and resources. A handful of soldiers with jeeps and guns with autobots would have been a slaughter as the Cons were stronger than the autobots in the first film. Air support was one of the few things that seemed to have any real effect on the Decepticons. They'd have no cover and if you went into a cave, you d have no option to retreat. Plus you’d have actually have known where a cave was before the bad guys found you. That’s an unacceptable risk, as you can’t just take a leap of faith like that with billions of lives at stake. If they had, how would the air force know where to go? Especially since the reinforcements was what saved their butts. In order bring the rain you need someone like Eps to call up to the jets and laser paint the targets.(they fought in the middle of a village in the beginning of the film with scorpanok. They needed to call for back up then too. They thought nothing of potentially using the village for cover then either.) He's a member of T.A.C.P.,a special forces division of the air force of guys who run around with army rangers to call in air strikes.He was their most valuable member for that reason. You cant effectively bomb the heck out of things without doing that first. Having people randomly fly around to help and hope they got there in time they'd horribly lost.
Stall tactics were the only real option. While if they really wanted get the allspark away from the decepticons they'd sent someone down into the sewers with it since the bigger bots would had trouble following and made it harder to track. Preferablly on a subway system. But not all cities have below ground subways. (mission city or Faux LA probably doesn't.) But it would made for a lousy finale watching sam ride the train thru the city and waiting underground till the miltary overran the Decepticons. Which why they were on the street instead of atleast hiding inside a warehouse or taken cover of some sort. They wanted to have a R.E.B.A.T.E. (Really Epic/Enormous Battle At The End)though so why we got what we got.

Ultimately if you want to insert maxium levels of who really should do so and so to win. The Decepticons should just bombarded the planet and killed everything from space with weapons of mass destruction (Im sure super advanced robots have bigger noise makers than us.May be some sort of nasty biological weapons for wasting organics.) or if none were availible just shove large asteroids from space toward earth since they were able to move thru space. Wipe everything out and search at your leisure. But again doesnt make for a very entertaining movie. It's sure an easy way to win if you re an alien race and you dont give a crap about the life on the planet you re invading.

Putting innocent civilians in harms way, knowingly, just isn't something soldiers or the Autobots would do.


Soldiers would as they did twice in said film. (Again they fought in a town again in revenge of the fallen.) They didn't go out of their way get civies killed as they evaced people in China before the fight started.(which Demolisher still broke out and killed people.) But you don't always get the luxury. Fate rarely picks a time of your choosing. Tactics are about taking advantage of anything you can. If civilian structures make for adequate cover, then you do so. (It happens plenty of the countless wars.) You don’t think with your emotions or follow some good guy code like you re some sort of Paladin. That sort of naïve thinking would just get more people killed.

The autobots didn’t actually pick where the fight happened. So it’s no blackmark against them how it went down. They were just supporting the soldiers, which were their best chance at survival. They clearly do try avoid fighting in heavily populated areas, as Prime made it a point to run away from the city to the forest so he could go all out in ROTF, but sometimes slag happens


They know several of the Decepticons can fly, and a city street is basically a canyon. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. Plus the civilian casualties is something the Autobots and the military would try to avoid.

Having buildings to fly thru actually is better than being out in the open. It makes it harder to approach. In a city there’s something take cover behind. I’m not sure how you reached that answer, because it’s simply not true. (if you’ve played any shooter game, having potential cover is always better than not.)

. Bumblebee and the soldiers there could have finished off Megatron before he thawed out. Then Bumblebee could have contacted the other Autobots, who were already on the way, for backup. Holding down a fort is a lot easier than playing keep away when the enemy has a serious tactical advantage over you


If the dam actually was a fort I’d agree with you. It however wasn’t. Megatron easily break out of it, and it was already compromised from Megatron and Frenzy being inside. Inside it there would have been no way to use air support against the Decepticons. There was very little weapons, cover inside it or room to move since it was a lab not an armed forces base. The Autobots couldn’t win a stand up fight against the Decepticons as their two biggest hitters were already there Starscream, and Megatron. (Blackout probably was too or very close by.) They’d been sitting ducks as Lennox said. ( Lennox had no idea where the other autobots were. So from that stand point based off what he knew staying was a bad idea.) Whether Prime and the gang would have beat the rest Cons there is debateable. They might have actually arrived at the dam shortly after the time bee took off.

Megatron withstand incredible amounts of damage. Having them shooting him might have actually sped up him unthawing. Prime was the only thing that remotely showed any impact on Megatron prior to him being hit by air strikes. Even after all the collective damage he took it wasn’t till the all spark overloaded him that he finally died.(even in RoTF he took stupid amounts of damage and still survived a beat down from powered up Prime.) Nothing they had would have probably done any serious damage to him and would have wasted their window to escape. Seeing everything Megatron can take, I wouldn’t have risked it either heh.
Ultimately I feel the soldiers and autobots made the only move that stood a chance at winning based on their cricumstances. While neither side fully exploited their tactical advantages (like the decepticons kept doing hit and run tactics despite winning their skrimishes.) but it’s a movie. I don’t expect it to do what makes the optimal sense because that doesn’t always make for the most entertainment. (such as melting down Megatron’s body at the end of the first film heh.) It entertained me just fine though either way.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby zenosaurus_x » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:51 pm

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:
zenosaurus_x wrote:Come to think of it, I don't think they even told the Autobots, they onyl told them where to go, then the Decepticons tried to cut them off...

Bumblebee was the one who had the Allspark, so I think he knew what the plan was.

Oh...right....carry on(wow...that was stupid ) :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Dagon » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:49 am

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Lastjustice wrote:
Using the citizens, including women and children, as cover is a terrible idea and Optimus wouldn't do it. Neither would a real soldier.



Who here actually knows anything about the armed forces here? (raises hand as an actual member of the air force.) Sorry you're wrong, allowing civies to die for the greater good is something the armed forces have done thru out history. (during world war two, they broke the german's code but refused to evac cities ahead of time to prevent the germans from realizing their codes had been compromised.) Officers routinely decide who lives and dies. They do what they have to achieve their mission. This chivary code people have for comics and super heroes doesnt apply to real warfare. War is hell and people do whatever it takes to win.

It's sure an easy way to win if you re an alien race and you dont give a crap about the life on the planet you re invading.



I'm not disputing the militarys' usage of human casualties or as shields or anything, as it's pretty documented throughout military history. My comment is only to say that if my memory is correct, and god knows it's a 50-50 chance, isn't it Lennox/the humans idea to take the Cube into the city, and the Autobots seem to find it perfectly acceptible? Also the Decepticons seem to catch them in a pincer move, becuase it seems the way it was presented that Brawl is blocking off one end of the city....I'm trying to say that all the Autobots are moving towards the right side of the screen and there's Brawl, while Starscream comes in to strafe from the left. So, the Autobots are moving into a tight, populated area to fight against an airborne enemy who also has them blocked off (although the Bots probably didn't know that).
I don't think that's bad or unrealistic writing or storytelling, and if we're debating the un-Autobot-like acceptance of fighting in a human-populated area, they didn't seem to have any problem with it, including Prime.

Here's as military as I can get: any place a battle happens, there will be some kind of unacceptable loss. The ROTF battle in the desert? Devastator was allowed to destroy a pyramid. I know, I'm fully aware of a pyramid not being a human life, but it's a priceless monument, artifact and historical object, representative of humanity in terms of its engineering, it's age, and even its' existance through slavery. Had the first movie ended with a battle at Hoover Dam, had the dam been destroyed the surge of water would have resulted in massive loss of life as well. Short of taking things out into space, I think it'd be pretty tough to fight on a Transformer sized scale and not at very least seriously endanger human life.
Plus, if we're supposed to focus on the 'action and effects' and stuff of these movies, then it makes more sense to fight where lots'a stuff can get blowed up.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Grendel » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:33 am

It's not so much that I hate Bay, I just wish they could of given the job to someone who actually cares, Bay's repeatedly let it be known he really doesn't like, or care for transformers, and it shows in the movies when he's tried making both about the army taking on anus faced alien robots with iron balls.

Aside from that, the actual scenes that do have transformers in them, are pretty good, I enjoyed them.
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Re: ROTF appreciation

Postby Burn » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:28 pm

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I still think it's hilarious that people still bitch and whine about ROTF and one of their biggest wah wah's is over Devestator's "balls" ... remind me again how long they were on screen?

Yeah ... if a few seconds of visual footage ruins the whole movie for you, I think ya might be taking things a little too seriously. :wink:
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