The Energon Pub

[Fires_Of_Inferno]

I'm glad Hasbro's actually doing a Voyager sized torso with Deluxe sized limbs. Took them a while to get it right!

I'll be honest, I can't understand the complaints. It's never going to be perfect, and it's never going to be in a style everyone will want. What WOULD you guys like to see? What sort of price points? What sizes? From what I'm hearing, most people want what the 3rd party companies are doing but at a price point less than what Hasbro has going. That's just not realistic, and I don't really think the increasing price and decreasing plastic is so much Hasbro's doing as it is import/export costs, taxes, supply costs, increasing minimum wadges and such. Yes, Hasbro makes a lot of money off of it's properties, but it also has a lot of money going out to pay employees, pay the government, and pay other companies. I watched the TFCon Q&A Panel with Aron Archer, who used to work for Hasbro, designing a lot of the toys, and he talks about how they wanted to do a lot of things, but the complexity had to suffer for the cost to be reasonable.

It's not like it's a new thing. Stuff always gets more expensive, and it will keep getting more expensive. I remember when Transformers cost $7! I WISH the transformers I had back then could do what the ones I have now do!

[shockblast2]

shockblast2, please do us all a favor and keep your thoughts to yourself. We enjoy our hobby and don't need your constant negativity, which, frankly, looks like trolling.

No, I think I will say what I want to say as long as it is within site rules. You personally accuse me of trolling. Didn't Alex just say to refrain from personal attacks? I am not taking your bait.


Alex? Am I wrong?

You're all wrong, as I asked you to give up.

Seriously, it's hard enough to keep track of the news as it is without getting reports about a conversation that could be highly constructive.

Next posts going against this we start giving warnings.

This is SDCC discussion thread is it not? What am I discussing? Most are. Only one or maybe two decided they did not like what was said because it rained on their combiner party and threw a fit to the point of personal attack. You said to stop. And that is feasible considering it is against site rules. Debating the financial aspects of this line are not.
By my count, only one, maybe two are making personal attacks. If I am wrong call me out on it and site me for it. But, I don't see any malice being given here save the few who CANNOT accept any opposition to their personal opinion. And Alex, is that not been a major issue in the past that still has yet to be rectified?

I respect you too, but you have to be fair. Saying I am wrong for doing nothing but posting my personal opinion, rebutting a personal attack, and then moving on like asked doesn't appear to put me in violation of any stated site rule. Again, if I am wrong then feel free to correct me.

[xyl360]

It's a plane (or whatever) and a robot and it combines with other robots (of my choosing, no less if they are indeed done Scramble City style).

It's perfect for kids. They collect things just like we do. The most popular things over the past couple decades have been things like Pokémon and Bakugan, all of which are collectible (gotta catch em' all and all that) and are supposedly made better by owning more of them because of their gimmicks.

If kids do catch on to the TF combiners, they'll probably be all over them. And of course, there's the rather large (and growing) market of 'grown up kids' in their 20's and 30's (like most of those who hang out on sites like this) who are currently driving nearly the entire market for popular culture. The biggest films and franchises are all 'geek' things now. Marvel/Avengers, Transformers (obviously), Batman/Superman/DC, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

If these don't sell to the kids, we'll buy em'. The same happened with Bruticus (all versions of it). If it had done poorly, Has/Tak wouldn't be doing these, and if the market for it didn't exist in sufficient numbers, the 3rd parties wouldn't be doing them either. Has/Tak are paying attention to what's going on in the market, including the adult collectors' market so they'll sell a ton of these to adult collectors, some of them to actual children, and if it catches on with kids they'll sell a ton more to actual children.

Besides that, I don't see what else they could do with this line. They've covered nearly every major character in the franchise from G1 and many characters since (Beast Wars etc.) so doing the combiners (finally) is not only expected and understandable, but some would argue long overdue. They just had to figure out a way to make them fit the current price points and (hopefully) look/function up to the standards of the collectors. Whether or not they've accomplished that last part is a matter of opinion. I like them OK, but I do see issues with them, but I will still most likely be buying them just to see them for myself and mess with different configurations and (mis)transformations to see if I can't work out some decent looking combined modes. And naturally the 3rd parties will jump on the boat to make add-on kits/additional/replacement team members to make them look 'more G1'.

I don't think the Generations line is in any trouble. If anything, I think it's going to thrive in the coming months/years at the rate they're going. Nearly every reveal so far has been for something that's been highly anticipated by the collector market (Arcee, Combiners, Chromia, a new Megatron that isn't a 'Nerf' gun, 'G1' looking minibots and Insecticons, a real Headmaster etc.).

I think Has/Tak are making excellent decisions with this line and are giving the fans things they've been asking for for a very long time and I believe that it will pay off. There are plenty of adult collectors who won't pay 3rd party prices or won't buy them based on principle but will shell out the $ to own these toys and there are some, like myself, who do buy tons of 3rd party stuff but will still buy these just to see what they're about and because many of the new offerings actually meet or exceed our expectations from anyone (including 3rd parties).

But I guess we'll just have to give it a year or two and see. If Has/Tak don't run out of characters and gimmicks to resurrect (which shouldn't be a problem) or existing characters they've already done that could use a 'refresh' or update (like Prime, Megatron, Skyfire/Jetfire etc.) (again, they shouldn't) and they just kill the line entirely and stick to doing 'show' figures and 'movie' figures then I guess we'll know that these decisions were in error, but until then it's full speed ahead and gimme those toys !

[Va'al]

I asked everyone in the thread to be nice to each other in order to continue the discussion (I am enjoying the numbers, stats and material aspects of it myself). But I also asked everyone to refrain from being the opposite of civil.

And yet what happened was name-calling, responding to insults, escalating. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but disagreement is perfectly allowed and it goes both ways.


As I said above, please drop this. Everyone involved.
(Go talk about comics instead!)

[thunderjacker]

i hope that the stunticon deluxes are small deluxes. its hard to get an idea without a size comparison.

[chuckdawg1999]

While we haven't seen pics yet I'm very confident to say that the hands/feet will integrate into the respective vehicle modes much like the classic combiners and those giant cannons.

[hinomars19]

It's a plane (or whatever) and a robot and it combines with other robots (of my choosing, no less if they are indeed done Scramble City style).

It's perfect for kids. They collect things just like we do. The most popular things over the past couple decades have been things like Pokémon and Bakugan, all of which are collectible (gotta catch em' all and all that) and are supposedly made better by owning more of them because of their gimmicks.

I can't agree with your entire post enough, I cut it short to avoid lengthy reading for those looking for info on the toys themselves-but you are spot on and provide a sensible counter-argument to Transformers just being a kid's thing. The door does indeed swing both ways. Neither is completely right or completely wrong.

On the toys themselves, as I've said already in this thread, I like what I see. The hips of the combiners are looking a little odd, even in the official pics, but that's not a big concern yet. I applaud Hasbro for these; they work within the current restrictions they face, yet provide fun, playable figures that play on both adult nostalgia and play value for kids (those still interested). It's a shame they are not as solid and hefty as the unicron trilogy toys, or animated etc, but that's a result of plastic weight restrictions, which is related to production cost over profit. I can't say fairer than that. I have my doubts Hasbro higher ups play fair and square %100 of the time...I sometimes question the prices I have to pay for what I get, and certainly don't buy everything they make out of loyalty, but what we have to see here definitely makes me smile. Generations has gone a step in the right direction, I think.

[LOST Cybertronian]

I have asked children myself and the response I get is "they don't do anything".

Which is what is wrong with kids today, no imagination.

[Sabrblade]

I have asked children myself and the response I get is "they don't do anything".

Which is what is wrong with kids today, no imagination.

Yeah, I could understand this kind of response from kids who bought the Titan Guardian figures, but even the Power Ranger Megazords with all the articulation of an average G1 Transformers toy are fun to play with.

Or at least, the pre-RPM molds are, since it was that series that Bandai of America started creating their own Zord molds that were cheaper and less sophsticated than the Bandai of Japan Super Sentai molds that they were importing for all PR series before RPM, though the Zord Builder system is fairly cool, but I digress.

The fact that these combiners not only combine Scramble City style, but also have adequate proportions and modern day articulation (knees, elbows, shoulders, hips, etc.) is a major plus. "They don't do anything"? They do far more than they need to: Transform, combine, articulate poses, hold weapons, look good, etc.

[Diem]

Or at least, the pre-RPM molds are, since it was that series that Bandai of America started creating their own Zord molds that were cheaper and less sophsticated than the Bandai of Japan Super Sentai molds that they were importing for all PR series before RPM, though the Zord Builder system is fairly cool, but I digress.

At the risk of getting off-topic the High Octane Megazord et al are still pretty damn awesome and just as "playable" as the original except for the lack of electronics. Not as good, but just as much play value.

It wasn't really until Shinken-Oh/Samurai Megazord that the downsizing really affected playability (ie. no dragon neck, the various Ika Tenkuu Buster zords not working properly)

[Flashwave]

Okay, so 2 questions:

1)Is Death's Head out yet, and where should I be looking for him?

2)Has anything besides Bumblebee, the small legion figs, and the Combiners been shown? Any more of the animated deluxes yet?

[Sabrblade]

2)Has anything besides Bumblebee, the small legion figs, and the Combiners been shown?

http://www.seibertron.com/events/gallery.php?event_id=376

Any more of the animated deluxes yet?

Animated ended years ago.

[Darkman20xx]

Looks like it's finally time to sell off old Universe Ultra Class Silverbolt. It always bugged me having 1 Aerialbot. The FP one was nice for awhile but even he didn't have the G1 nostalgia this has for me. Only question I have is how soon is some 3rd party going to come out with a proper version of the one they changed to a helicopter.

[Diem]

PLAIN NOT COPTUR

[Killerewok]

I don't understand why people cling to this idea that the toys are not "made for us" or that we represent a very small number of fans. Go into any Walmart or Target and look at what's on the shelves. TONS of the AoE stuff that was meant for kids... 1-step, Power Battlers, Flip-n-Change... that stuff is all still sitting on the shelves. Generations are getting REAL hard to find at retail, because THAT is what sells out. Whether it's us or the scalpers, it's for the same market. Heck, my Walmart doesn't even have a permanent peg for Generations because they move so fast. If they are losing money, it's because they still think kids are driving their business.

The fact that we are getting combiners at all means they are listening to US and are making things that WE want. (See also: Legit Headmaster, Metroplex) There is no reason they would appeal to kids any more or less then anything else they make. If a kid wants a Transformer, they get a Transformer. You think some kid is gonna see these on the pegs and say "They combine? That's BS! F these things..." Get a grip.

[Sabrblade]

I don't understand why people cling to this idea that the toys are not "made for us" or that we represent a very small number of fans. Go into any Walmart or Target and look at what's on the shelves. TONS of the AoE stuff that was meant for kids... 1-step, Power Battlers, Flip-n-Change... that stuff is all still sitting on the shelves. Generations are getting REAL hard to find at retail, because THAT is what sells out. Whether it's us or the scalpers, it's for the same market. Heck, my Walmart doesn't even have a permanent peg for Generations because they move so fast.

Are the Generations really selling out, or are the stores just not putting them on the shelves/ordering enough of them from Hasbro as a means to focus more on selling the AOE toys?

A similar thing happened with each of the previous movie lines. The stores wanted to sell more Movie 1 toys than they did for Animated. They wanted to sell more ROTF toys than they did for both Animated and Universe. They wanted to sell more HFTD toys than they did for Generations and Reveal the Shield. And they wanted to sell more DOTM toys than they did for Prime. Stores seem to think the real money is in the Movie toylines than anything else, and it's not too surprising considering how successful the movies themselves have been.

[Diem]

I don't understand why people cling to this idea that the toys are not "made for us" or that we represent a very small number of fans. Go into any Walmart or Target and look at what's on the shelves. TONS of the AoE stuff that was meant for kids... 1-step, Power Battlers, Flip-n-Change... that stuff is all still sitting on the shelves. Generations are getting REAL hard to find at retail, because THAT is what sells out. Whether it's us or the scalpers, it's for the same market. Heck, my Walmart doesn't even have a permanent peg for Generations because they move so fast. If they are losing money, it's because they still think kids are driving their business.

So you're saying that the things that both kids and collectors are buying are selling more than the things only kids are buying?!? What are the chances of that?!?!

Seriously though, you must be going to different stores than me. Shelves in my area are cluttered with Rhinoxes, Whirls and Scoops.

And yes, it's true that we are a proportion of the buying market, and that's only going to increase as more fans cross the threshold into adulthood and as kidulthood becomes increasingly less socially unacceptable. But we are also a safer market. If we see, say, AoE Slash on a shelf we can afford to think "Yeah, I can drop $15 on a rainbow dinosaur." We can casually pick and choose whatever we want, and we have enough income that we'll take more risks on figures that we're ambivalent about. But kids have access to more limited incomes and have to choose between that or the other ten toy franchises they're into or saving up for a computer game. Not only are kids still the main source of income for Hasbro but Hasbro has to make the kids WANT figures more than we do.

Honestly, I think the proportion of things that we see now reflects the amount of collector purchasing power there is. Would Classics have existed if there wasn't an adult fanbase? Not even slightly. A $60 figure of a character from an 80s cartoon who turns into a police car based on a car that hasn't looked like that since 1984? Why would that even begin to be a thing if Hasbro weren't conscious of adult fandom. But the majority of their push is still toys aimed at kids with bones thrown to adult collectors.

[william-james88]

Here is the video released with the news of the Combiner War figures. We can see how the limbs can swap for one another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnj2qGYNGlY

[Sabrblade]

Here is the video released with the news of the Combiner War figures. We can see how the limbs can swap for one another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnj2qGYNGlY

Ryan already posted that in his report - http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/sdcc-2014-coverage-hasbro-transformers-panel-summary-updated-with-generations-and-rid-video-clips/30898/

[Flashwave]

2)Has anything besides Bumblebee, the small legion figs, and the Combiners been shown?

http://www.seibertron.com/events/gallery.php?event_id=376

Any more of the animated deluxes yet?

Animated ended years ago.

let me clarify, animated cartoon, as opposed to the non media figs. not "Animated", "animated".

[Megatron Wolf]

Im sorry but i have to chime in here, this stuff is just to entertaining (and kind of sad) not to. im not going to quote or directly reply just do a general statement & leave it at that. Also sorry for the long post that may or may not be off topic:

One of the problems with generations is that stores are not required to carry them, if they were then there would always be ones on the shelves just like AoE. But because of that and horrible distribution its hard to find them in most places, so when they actual get a shipment in the scalpers swarm on it like ants to a snowcone. Then factor in that people start bitching so hasbro ship more and then that clogs the shelves baring new waves from hitting. Its a vicious cycle thats not going to change cause morons run the companies involved.

But i have to agree & disagree with the kid v collectors controlling the market, the toys them selves are always designed for kids and kids are the ones that focus test them, but the collectors are the ones who drop the most cash at a given time for the products. And a collector figure will sell to both parties where as a kid figure will not. Collectors are a safe bet but kids will always outnumber us so hasbro appeases them first cause its "cost effective". Its a balancing act that hasbro has yet to master. The combiners are a good example of doing things right though, you have G1 characters that people have wanted for years, they look like quality figures and theres a mix & match gimmick that kids will love. I doubt a kid will think that being able to form a giant robot out of any 5 figures is lame. Only problem is the pricing, kids & parents arent going to want to spend that kind of money. Go up to any kid & say "you want 5 robots or 10 TMNT figures?" what do you really think the kid will pick? Unless they live & breath TFs they're going to go with the turtles. Collectors as well, id personally would rather spend $15 on a video game or neca figure than a transformer that wont last to see my kids born. Id like to be able to sit there and say "this is what optimus looked like when i was your age, here hes yours now have fun" not "i wish i could show you the prime i had when i was your age but he fell apart a year after i got him".

But collectors arent a safer bet either, we're more likely to walk away from a $15 toy that breaks & has flaws right out of the package especially when a year ago they were only $12 & a year before that $10. Also lets not forget that they look like crap these days, if they eyes arent happy then neither am I. Yes there are the blind obsessives that will buy anything with the brand name stamped on it to feed their addiction (who are slowly killing the franchise might i add) but the majority of us are not like that (or at least i hope not)so im not factoring them in for this conversation. What hasbro needs to do is look back at their own past and see what worked, make a toyline that is accessible to kids but will attract & appease the collectors, have a show thats entertaining for kids but isnt so kiddy that parents & collectors will avoid it, and last but especially not least price it all so that anyone can enjoy it and fell like they got their moneys worth not just those with disposable income. If recent events are any indication people will buy the stuff if its priced right, deluxes flew off the pegs when the price dropped down to $10. It would also help if the fandom would come together & worry about the franchise as a whole & its future not just themselves & their own collections at the moment. If you dont fix a problem its only going to get worse and screw over everyone in the end.

[Bluespindash97]

Optimus Prime guitar!
HELL YEAH!
Now if only I could play a guitar!

[LOST Cybertronian]

We have updated the Transformers Age of Extinction Galleries to include various new product on the showroom floor. Included in this update is the Platinum Edition Breakout battle, Platinum Edition Optimus Prime and Grimlock, Autobots United 5-pack, Platinum Edition Optimus Prime and more. Check out the new gallery images by clicking below.

[Va'al]

Another small update from Hasbro's SDCC releases - the no-need-to-take-apart-to-transform Kre-O Transformers Battle Changers! Check out the four characters so far (Optimus Prime, Starscream, Bumblebee, Grimlock) below, in their stock photo version, and check out the Seibertron.com gallery for a more life-like presentation.

[Va'al]

As was announced during the Hasbro panel at SDCC 2014, the G1 redeco of Age of Extinction Slog, the last member of the Dinobot team to fit in with the convention exclusive set, will be an Amazon.com release - and we have pre-order links, thanks to staff member mooncake623! Check it out here, currently priced at $34.88, and release date of December 15, 2014. Will you stretching out to purchase the final member of the dinoteam?