>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Seems we lost out with Prime's Faceplate...

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Postby Lycantendencies » Fri May 11, 2007 7:59 pm

Leonardo wrote:In what way, though? What did any of the previous TF series have that this film lacks? If Transformers was unique before, why isn't this movie unique? What has changed?

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.

In answer; several things, but I'll stick with three of the biggest.

Visually, the designs are very different.

I'm not one who says they look nothing like Transformers, because most designs do have enough in them that they do.
But they have lost a lot of their uniqueness and do resemble other mech.
From a non mech fanboy pov, I see overall shapes, roundness and similar that I associate with Gundam, design aspects I associate with Guyver, and so on.
That's seldom something I do with Transformers because they usually have a more unique look, one that's only similar to the two lines that created it.

Similarly, the overly Hollywood approach of good guys with more human faces and bad guys looking more like "aliens" or monsters is common, but not for Transformers.


Mythos wise, the movie gives us two races of advanced warrior fighting machines.
G1 gave us more of a Galactica approach, with the warrior race attacking a race ill equipped for battle.
Granted, the show did stick with the more generic evenly matched warrior thing, but it sank after 3 years.
The comic on the other hand cost money yet last three times that, mostly because the Galactica style gave it much more depth.

Outside of G1, we had Beast Wars. Again, this show was far more complex than your average toyline show and it was this depth that gave a sense of realism and bolstered the believability of the characterisations.
These are the franchises two most successful continuities and both delivered more than just good warrior robot fights bad warrior robot.


Finally, I think there's humour.
One thing Transformers has done expertly since day one is take itself seriously whilst aknowledging it's own absurdity. It was very knowing, very self aware.
Simon Furman did this brilliantly, as did the writers of Beast Wars.

From everything Bay and co have said; they're desperate for this not to be a stupid toy movie, and from all we have seen, it's taking itself far too seriously.
Most films that take themselves too seriously look more ridiculous for it.


To me, what we're getting is the equivalent of an X-Men film where they ignored all the complexities of the comics, glossed over the world they live in, ignored the prejudice that all mutants face, the way that shaped them and the conflict it provided and visually changed all the Mutants the way they did Deathstryke.
Oh, and considered itself to be not a comic book movie, but something more serious.

Superficially it still would have been X-Men, the names and powers are all still there, many would have been happy; but the things that made it iconic, the things that made it popular enough to get a movie in the first place when groups like the Justice League didn't, have been ignored.
Lycantendencies
Minibot
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am

Postby AbsumZer0 » Sat May 12, 2007 12:35 am

Hot_Rod wrote:Good Post. ^

I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...


Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...

And to be fair, Bay also made Armageddon which was a great movie, and he also made Independance Day which I also enjoyed, however the Aliens were depicted as monsters out to give us doomsday. And that's exactly what he seems to be doing with the Transformers in this movie.

There were some other connections I had made along time ago but I forget what they were now. I want to say that someone had a connection to Mortal Kombat or Godzilla, but I honestly can't remember if that is true or whom it was.

The bottom line is when you look at the people behind it and their body of work, it's not very comforting. Especially when you then go and look at all the news pieces we've gotton on this movie since it started.


I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with Independence Day. That was the Tristar Godzilla folks.
AbsumZer0
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:13 pm

Postby The Paragon of Virtue » Sat May 12, 2007 11:19 am

Hot_Rod wrote:I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...


Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...


I won't dispute the poor track record for most of these guys (although Murphy did "Natural Born Killers" with the rest of his lesser stuff; I don't see DeSanto doing X-Men as a bad thing; and I liked Bay's "The Rock," while not really liking his other movies), but there's still this guy on the staff named Steven Spielberg, as well as Ian Bryce.
The Paragon of Virtue
Vehicon
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:34 pm

Postby ScorpoMax » Sat May 12, 2007 12:26 pm

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Leonardo wrote:In what way, though? What did any of the previous TF series have that this film lacks? If Transformers was unique before, why isn't this movie unique? What has changed?

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.

In answer; several things, but I'll stick with three of the biggest.

Visually, the designs are very different.

I'm not one who says they look nothing like Transformers, because most designs do have enough in them that they do.
But they have lost a lot of their uniqueness and do resemble other mech.
From a non mech fanboy pov, I see overall shapes, roundness and similar that I associate with Gundam, design aspects I associate with Guyver, and so on.
That's seldom something I do with Transformers because they usually have a more unique look, one that's only similar to the two lines that created it.

Similarly, the overly Hollywood approach of good guys with more human faces and bad guys looking more like "aliens" or monsters is common, but not for Transformers.


Mythos wise, the movie gives us two races of advanced warrior fighting machines.
G1 gave us more of a Galactica approach, with the warrior race attacking a race ill equipped for battle.
Granted, the show did stick with the more generic evenly matched warrior thing, but it sank after 3 years.
The comic on the other hand cost money yet last three times that, mostly because the Galactica style gave it much more depth.

Outside of G1, we had Beast Wars. Again, this show was far more complex than your average toyline show and it was this depth that gave a sense of realism and bolstered the believability of the characterisations.
These are the franchises two most successful continuities and both delivered more than just good warrior robot fights bad warrior robot.


Finally, I think there's humour.
One thing Transformers has done expertly since day one is take itself seriously whilst aknowledging it's own absurdity. It was very knowing, very self aware.
Simon Furman did this brilliantly, as did the writers of Beast Wars.

From everything Bay and co have said; they're desperate for this not to be a stupid toy movie, and from all we have seen, it's taking itself far too seriously.
Most films that take themselves too seriously look more ridiculous for it.


To me, what we're getting is the equivalent of an X-Men film where they ignored all the complexities of the comics, glossed over the world they live in, ignored the prejudice that all mutants face, the way that shaped them and the conflict it provided and visually changed all the Mutants the way they did Deathstryke.
Oh, and considered itself to be not a comic book movie, but something more serious.

Superficially it still would have been X-Men, the names and powers are all still there, many would have been happy; but the things that made it iconic, the things that made it popular enough to get a movie in the first place when groups like the Justice League didn't, have been ignored.


Exactly. All this stuff about blocky robots looking fake and not being realistic is nuking it. It's just so nitpicky (but fun)to go ranting about comic and cartoon science at this level. To me, it's as if the makers of the X-men movies decided "You know, genetic mutations couldn't possibly make someone be able to turn himself into metal, and even if they did he wouldn't be able to move. Let's give Colossus down syndrome instead."

The makers of FF didn't go down into the details of how a man of rock wouldn't be able to move in real life, they just went, "The hell with it! This is a film about superheros, you have to suspend belief somewhere." Yeah, I know FF was a big flop. That's why there's a sequel coming out this summer.
ScorpoMax
Minibot
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:28 am

Postby Phategod1 » Sat May 12, 2007 3:17 pm

A IMDB question here Did Desanto Do X-Men 2 & 3 or just the 1st?
My gamer tag is PHATEGODPRIME Im too lazy to put the little fancy one here.
Phategod1
Pretender
Posts: 788
News Credits: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:01 am

Postby The Paragon of Virtue » Sat May 12, 2007 4:15 pm

Phategod1 wrote:A IMDB question here Did Desanto Do X-Men 2 & 3 or just the 1st?


He did the first two, but not the third.
The Paragon of Virtue
Vehicon
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:34 pm

Postby RoboFunk Prime » Sat May 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Similarly, the overly Hollywood approach of good guys with more human faces and bad guys looking more like "aliens" or monsters is common, but not for Transformers.

Outside of G1, we had Beast Wars. Again, this show was far more complex than your average toyline show and it was this depth that gave a sense of realism and bolstered the believability of the characterisations.
These are the franchises two most successful continuities and both delivered more than just good warrior robot fights bad warrior robot.

Finally, I think there's humour.
One thing Transformers has done expertly since day one is take itself seriously whilst aknowledging it's own absurdity. It was very knowing, very self aware.
Simon Furman did this brilliantly, as did the writers of Beast Wars.

From everything Bay and co have said; they're desperate for this not to be a stupid toy movie, and from all we have seen, it's taking itself far too seriously.
Most films that take themselves too seriously look more ridiculous for it.
[i]


Great Post! Nicely said.
I agree about the overt demonization of the Decepticons. One of the things that always fascinated me when I was kid was that the only things that distinguished the factions were a symbol and an ideology; very much the same way we humans get along with one another. How very typical of Hollywood to continue on insulting the intelligence of their audience.

The Beast Wars series was made by people like us: they loved the toys and they especially loved the story/ mythos of the Transformers. This is what made the series work.

As for Bay and co. taking the film too seriously, I totally agree.
When I look at the Masterpiece Starscream toy, my only thought (with respect to the film) is that there's no flippin way a live-action version of this would have looked stupid.
Bay has said that he really has listened to the fans, but what difference does that make when he's already dissed the things that drew us to the franchise in the first place? How can the film succeed with such an attitude prevalent in its creators?
Image
RoboFunk Prime
Minibot
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:53 pm

Postby Iamwarhorse » Sat May 12, 2007 4:35 pm

AbsumZer0 wrote:
Hot_Rod wrote:Good Post. ^

I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...


Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...

And to be fair, Bay also made Armageddon which was a great movie, and he also made Independance Day which I also enjoyed, however the Aliens were depicted as monsters out to give us doomsday. And that's exactly what he seems to be doing with the Transformers in this movie.

There were some other connections I had made along time ago but I forget what they were now. I want to say that someone had a connection to Mortal Kombat or Godzilla, but I honestly can't remember if that is true or whom it was.

The bottom line is when you look at the people behind it and their body of work, it's not very comforting. Especially when you then go and look at all the news pieces we've gotton on this movie since it started.


I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with Independence Day. That was the Tristar Godzilla folks.


You're right about Independence Day. Michael Bay had nothing to do with it, but I guess to the casual film goer, one might make that mistake. An action movie with Will Smith.

To be honest, I was never a Transformer fan. I saw the trailer to the new movie, so I am slowly learning about it, so I am not totally lost when I go see the movie. That said, I have no problem with Michael Bay directing. I like most of his movies. You also have Steven Spielberg, who tends to make really great movies the audience adores.

But I wonder, what kind of movie would we have if the Roland Emerich and Dean Devlin team worked on it? Independence Day is my favorite movie, for so many reasons.
Iamwarhorse
Minibot
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:08 pm

Postby For Gondor! » Sat May 12, 2007 7:51 pm

Phategod1 wrote:I know this topic with 29 pages has been neat to death but I saw this and had to post this

"Well, it's just, you know, listen, it's like...I didn't want to make the boxy characters, you know? Think about it, 30 feet in the air in the real world, just boxes, you know and it'd just look more fake, you know? And by adding more doo-dads, you know, stuff on the...stuff. Stuff on the robots, more car parts, and...you know you can just make it look more real."- Micheal Bay.

To all the Bay fans this is who you follow? This is the man you respect? If you honestly think TF will be a good movie because of Bay Intelligent movie making decisions you have my condolences and I have some beach front property in Arkansas to sell you.



Agreed. He just dumbs the arguments down there. Instead of intelligently finding a middle way between G1 and the movie look, he took the easy way out and threw it all out the window for typical Hollywood alien beasties we've seen in other films.
For Gondor!
Micromaster
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:34 pm

Postby Sonray » Sat May 12, 2007 8:06 pm

I really dont care about the face plate thing. I mean its a bit stupid to get so upset about such a small detail, like is the only reason we like Transformers is because Prime has a face plate?!

Oh and incase nobody noticed, but EVERY transformer has lips, apart from of course sound wave and a few others.

I think Prime looks cool with lips, and lets not forget he still HAS his face plate when in battle mode, so its not like the new prime has no face plate at all!

Im still divided with the designs for some of the movie TF's, like Starscream for example, but other than him i think the new generation of TF's look pretty cool and realistic.

We have to remember that what works well in a kids cartoon from the 80's, wont work at all in a live action blockbuster in the year 2007. Things HAD to be changed. Technology, styles, what is accepted by a movie going audience changes with time.

We have already had our fanboy G1 movie, its time to just sit down, shut up and accept the fact that these new transformers are just that: NEW!

I mean, its STILL a live action movie about Transformers!!

Oh and i like Micheal Bay. For the types of movies he makes he is a great director, and that is the entertaining, visually stunning and action-packed pop corn summer blockbuster. At least his movies have lots of action when they claim to be action movies, unlike some other movies that claim to be full of action yet all you get is 20 minutes of action, and then 2 hours of soap opera! (ahem spiderman 3 ahem)

Bayformers FTW!
Sonray
City Commander
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Postby 1337W422102 » Sat May 12, 2007 8:15 pm

Motto: "I come from the Net."
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
This is kinda funny: I was just listening to music and looking at pictures of movie Prime, and the next song that played was "Death of Optimus Prime" from the animated movie... Maybe WinAmp's trying to tell me something. :P
Image
Ages 25 & Up, comics with ball joints of steel. Updated Mondays.
Classics Prime and Cybertron Armorhide are the Bad Mother Truckers
User avatar
1337W422102
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5032
News Credits: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada
Strength: 3
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 6
Endurance: 3
Rank: 7
Courage: 5
Firepower: 7
Skill: 8

Postby RoboFunk Prime » Sat May 12, 2007 11:53 pm

1337W422102 wrote:This is kinda funny: I was just listening to music and looking at pictures of movie Prime, and the next song that played was "Death of Optimus Prime" from the animated movie... Maybe WinAmp's trying to tell me something. :P



Heh....T'is a fitting omen, methinks :-?

I
Image
RoboFunk Prime
Minibot
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:53 pm

Postby Lycantendencies » Sun May 13, 2007 5:51 am

Sonray wrote:Im still divided with the designs for some of the movie TF's, like Starscream for example, but other than him i think the new generation of TF's look pretty cool and realistic.


I disagree.

They all look realistically rendered, but some do not look realistically designed.
Remember that Transformers are supposed to be a naturally occuring species, not purpose built war machines.

Nature develops creatures for survival, and one of the first things it does it reduce the number of weak points.
These designs often have a great deal of "internal" working exposed.

That's just not realistic.

Like that quote from Bay said, he felt more stuff on stuff, more parts made them look more real.

People have been applying that logic for decades.
It's the same reason we have those silly computers with lots of bulbs and numerous noises in old shows.

At the time, people thought complex = realistic.
Looking back and seeing how much simpler reality is, complex just looks stupid and unneccessary.

Same thing here.

These just look like Hollywood special effects, not an age old sepcies of naturally occuring creatures.
And I say that as someone who likes some of the designs.

Sonray wrote:
I mean, its STILL a live action movie about Transformers!!


But this is what many dispute.

It IS a film about giant alien robots that change shape, but as some of the movie's haters point out, that could also describe Gobots.

Transformers is a franchise that is made up of numerous qualities and many of these qualities appear to be missing.

That it's Transformers in name means nothing if the rest is absent.
Lycantendencies
Minibot
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am

Postby Sonray » Sun May 13, 2007 9:35 am

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Sonray wrote:Im still divided with the designs for some of the movie TF's, like Starscream for example, but other than him i think the new generation of TF's look pretty cool and realistic.


I disagree.

They all look realistically rendered, but some do not look realistically designed.
Remember that Transformers are supposed to be a naturally occuring species, not purpose built war machines.

Nature develops creatures for survival, and one of the first things it does it reduce the number of weak points.
These designs often have a great deal of "internal" working exposed.

That's just not realistic.

Like that quote from Bay said, he felt more stuff on stuff, more parts made them look more real.

People have been applying that logic for decades.
It's the same reason we have those silly computers with lots of bulbs and numerous noises in old shows.

At the time, people thought complex = realistic.
Looking back and seeing how much simpler reality is, complex just looks stupid and unneccessary.

Same thing here.

These just look like Hollywood special effects, not an age old sepcies of naturally occuring creatures.
And I say that as someone who likes some of the designs.

Sonray wrote:
I mean, its STILL a live action movie about Transformers!!


But this is what many dispute.

It IS a film about giant alien robots that change shape, but as some of the movie's haters point out, that could also describe Gobots.

Transformers is a franchise that is made up of numerous qualities and many of these qualities appear to be missing.

That it's Transformers in name means nothing if the rest is absent.


Erm...wasnt the transformers CREATED by another race, a.k.a. the quintessons or however its spelt? Didnt they then evolve themselves and perfect the art of transformation and ways to defend themselves by themselves?

Nothing is "natural" about the Transformers, thats just silly.

As for them being gobots, i can hardly see how. You have Optimus Prime who CLEARLY looks like Optimus Prime, but as it has been said millions of times before you simply cant use old 80's robot designs for a 2007 movie! Things simply dont work that way.

Move on with the times. A movie going audience expects a certain amount of beleivability, and having a 30-foot Transformers turning into a hand-held walkman isnt gonna fly on the big screen in this day and age!

That is why the designs have been changed so much, and i dont care what anyone says, they look realistic and like they actually WORK. At least the metal componants arent shrinking and morphing into smaller sizes like the original TF's did all the time. As i said, that SIMPLY WOULDNT WORK in a live action movie today.

These characters have been changed before, energon completely ruined the franhcise IMO, but i dont hear people complaining about that. Prime was turned into a firetruck at one point, wheres the whining about that?

What i am saying is ever since the late 80's, no Transformer has ever stayed looking the same as its original G1 counterpart, so why should a movie made in 2007 by a whole different generation of people be any different?
Sonray
City Commander
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Postby Lycantendencies » Sun May 13, 2007 10:55 am

Sonray wrote:Erm...wasnt the transformers CREATED by another race, a.k.a. the quintessons or however its spelt?


Only in the cartoon.

In the comic and every continuity since it's been Primus, who was a god and the Transformers who naturally evolved.

Maybe you find it silly, but for over 20 years that's what set Transformers apart from every other boring mech show for many people.

Sonray wrote:As for them being gobots, i can hardly see how. You have Optimus Prime who CLEARLY looks like Optimus Prime, but as it has been said millions of times before you simply cant use old 80's robot designs for a 2007 movie! Things simply dont work that way.


3 points here.

1. You're missing the Gobots point completely. In my earlier comments I say that it could be Transformers in looks, but there is FAR MORE to Transformers than looks and names.

Aside from the superficial, there were many things that seperated Transformers from Gobots. You couldn't just take a Transformers script, change the names and likenesses and squeeze Gobots in or do the same the other way around because Transformers was just too different.

With the film, not all of these but several large things that made the two so different are absent.

2. Spiderman, Fantastic 4 and Iron Man say you can use old designs and it will work.

3. I didn't say old designs anyway. I reffered to a design style.
Alt Jazz is not as square as G1 Jazz, he's more articulate and more realistic. yet he retains the same overall stylings.
You can increase the realism, articulation and everything else much further than the Alt and still retain the overall style.

G2/A/E/C all shared the overall design style, it evolved and changed, but remained recognisable as the look that made Transformers famous, the look that made it so different from everything else.

Beast Wars didn't, but Beast Wars sold itself as Beast Wars before it sold itself as Transformers and very importantly, it kept with Transformers in that it looked like nothing else around in the giant mech field.
And RiD was a mix of the two styles.

The problems with the movie's changes is that they look like so many other mech styles merged into one with the traditional aspects as an afterthought.

It's not that change that so many find bad, it's the fact that the change has removed so many aspects that made Transformers what it was that it's Transformers on a technicality only.

Sonray wrote:At least the metal componants arent shrinking and morphing into smaller sizes like the original TF's did all the time.

No, they just have metal that bends and rubber tires that split in half without deflating. That so much more realistic. :roll:

Transformers have never been realistic, they weren't in the show, they're not now.

Oh, and in terms of what audiences will accept, millions of people accepted things like the Cirtoen bot (Traditional TF look), they accept things like the self building house in A Town Called Eureka (Mass shifting).

When it's animated well, they'll accept almost anything.
It's only the fandom that thinks everyone is as fickle as them.
Lycantendencies
Minibot
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am

Postby Sonray » Sun May 13, 2007 11:46 am

Whatever, im not getting into an arguement as these "points" sound more like semantics to me.

I dont care what anyone says, im going to see the TF movie and im going to like the TF movie. I like the new designs and they all work for the times, so if you are peed off because of a face plate, or because robots dont look "organic" enough *if i kenw what the rolling eyes emote was it would be inserted here* then thats your problem and you are going to miss out on one of the most action packed, collest and most exciting movies of the year.

Your loss.
Sonray
City Commander
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Postby Lycantendencies » Sun May 13, 2007 11:51 am

Sonray wrote:you are going to miss out on one of the most action packed, collest and most exciting movies of the year.

Nope, come release day I'll be watching Harry Potter too. :P
Lycantendencies
Minibot
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am

Postby Sonray » Sun May 13, 2007 12:21 pm

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Sonray wrote:you are going to miss out on one of the most action packed, collest and most exciting movies of the year.

Nope, come release day I'll be watching Harry Potter too. :P


Yeah, Harry pothead can wait till a DVD rip is out. I like how no one mentioned the fact that this TF movie is based on the G1 series, and NONE of the series's that you mentioned. Talk about missing the point.
Sonray
City Commander
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Postby RoboFunk Prime » Sun May 13, 2007 3:22 pm

Sonray wrote:
As for them being gobots, i can hardly see how. You have Optimus Prime who CLEARLY looks like Optimus Prime, but as it has been said millions of times before you simply cant use old 80's robot designs for a 2007 movie! Things simply dont work that way.

Move on with the times. A movie going audience expects a certain amount of beleivability, and having a 30-foot Transformers turning into a hand-held walkman isnt gonna fly on the big screen in this day and age!

That is why the designs have been changed so much, and i dont care what anyone says, they look realistic and like they actually WORK. At least the metal componants arent shrinking and morphing into smaller sizes like the original TF's did all the time. As i said, that SIMPLY WOULDNT WORK in a live action movie today.


And how would you know any of that?
Got any Animation experience? Built any models? Done any animatics?
Bay's people have the above experience, but I've never taken his word for it not working. Why? Cause I have similar experience too and I feel a more faithful rendition would have worked, it would have been frickin bad@$$!! Also, have not fans already demonstrated the possibilities?

Now, with respect to points being missed, I haven't seen anyone saying that they exepected a full-on direct translation of the old cartoon to live-action today. What people wanted was a better and much more recognizable compromise. Bay and his crew have essentially done what the film industry almost always does: takes an idea, changes it to something else and then puts it back out with its original sticker. Obviously, Bay isn't out to ruin the franchise, but with his attitude toward G1 he wasn't the best choice for director.
Image
RoboFunk Prime
Minibot
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:53 pm

Postby Lycantendencies » Sun May 13, 2007 7:45 pm

Sonray wrote:I like how no one mentioned the fact that this TF movie is based on the G1 series, and NONE of the series's that you mentioned. Talk about missing the point.

Sorry?

If you're referring to the other Transformers series I mentioned, they were only mentioned in continuing the G1 design style, which is actually a statement on G1.

Which is therefore not missing the point.

Also, this movie is as you say, G1 based, but it's not G1 and it takes a lot of things from these other series, making comaprisons to them perfectly legitimate.

If it's the other non TF series I mentioned, I fail to see how any are missing the point.

You said that the G1 style won't work that people won't buy live action mass shifting.
My reference to the Citroen ad and the scene from Town Called Eureka are examples of believable G1 stylings and mass shifting that people saw in live action and found perfectly believeable.
That's very much the point as these concepts do work.

Oh, and incidentally, I already said I LIKE Prime's faceplate, and I don't like organic TF's especially.

I just find the whole "two sides of purpose built fighting machines resembling other mech" to be a huge dumbing down of the franchise.

If that's all that is to you, that's great, but to moan about other people getting more from it and feeling let down because the "more mature and realistic" movie we were promised seems at this moment to be less mature than anything we've had yet, is as bad as people telling you that you're wrong for liking it as you do.
Lycantendencies
Minibot
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am

Postby Bottom Out » Sun May 13, 2007 10:14 pm

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Only in the cartoon.

In the comic and every continuity since it's been Primus, who was a god and the Transformers who naturally evolved.

Maybe you find it silly, but for over 20 years that's what set Transformers apart from every other boring mech show for many people.


and a lot more people know transformers by just the cartoon...the ratio of transformer comic fans to transformer cartoon fans is not 1:1.

You're also forgetting that the transformers are trying to fit in and disguise themselves on an alein planet...perhaps having these exposed parts is the only way they can do it...there was no exposed parts in thier asteroid form....


3 points here.

1. You're missing the Gobots point completely. In my earlier comments I say that it could be Transformers in looks, but there is FAR MORE to Transformers than looks and names.

Aside from the superficial, there were many things that seperated Transformers from Gobots. You couldn't just take a Transformers script, change the names and likenesses and squeeze Gobots in or do the same the other way around because Transformers was just too different.

With the film, not all of these but several large things that made the two so different are absent.




the robots still maintain there personalities from the original, they still come from cybertron, the only difference is the "all spark" really...WOW...i guess it isnt transformers now :rolleyes:

2. Spiderman, Fantastic 4 and Iron Man say you can use old designs and it will work.


and x-men is proof new designs also work..funny thing is that you mention spiderman..but the goblin was completly redesigned...can you guess why?

3. I didn't say old designs anyway. I reffered to a design style.
Alt Jazz is not as square as G1 Jazz, he's more articulate and more realistic. yet he retains the same overall stylings.
You can increase the realism, articulation and everything else much further than the Alt and still retain the overall style.

G2/A/E/C all shared the overall design style, it evolved and changed, but remained recognisable as the look that made Transformers famous, the look that made it so different from everything else.

Beast Wars didn't, but Beast Wars sold itself as Beast Wars before it sold itself as Transformers and very importantly, it kept with Transformers in that it looked like nothing else around in the giant mech field.
And RiD was a mix of the two styles.


The new designs still pay homage to the original...just because they are not boxy doesnt mean they arent similar enough to be unrecognizable.

prime - blue and red truck, helmet with the side horns
bumblebee - small yellow car, autobot symbol on his head
jazz - small sports car, visor
ratchet - he was an ambulance andnow hes a military rescue vehicle...not exactly the same as an ambulance but same relevance in the military world, not to mention they are both trucks as well
ironhide - hes supposed to be a big old cowboy...now hes a big pick up truck..thats actually a better design than the original..its what he should have been in the first place

^and thats just what they look like, once you throw in thier persona's there will be no question as to who is who.

The problems with the movie's changes is that they look like so many other mech styles merged into one with the traditional aspects as an afterthought.


I'm having a hard time thinking of any movie's that involve transforming mech styled robots, dispite that...they way these robots move alone will set them apart form any mechs

It's not that change that so many find bad, it's the fact that the change has removed so many aspects that made Transformers what it was that it's Transformers on a technicality only.


it really hasnt removed all these aspect that you're claiming, people assume it has because its all they've had to go by so far..still images..they have no clue what they sound like..no idea what they say...no idea on how they will say it..and its pretty well known that voice, tone, and movement plays more a lot more in defining a "being" than anything else.

No, they just have metal that bends and rubber tires that split in half without deflating. That so much more realistic. :roll:


bending metal isnt realistic? these transformers can change thier entire molecular structure with a scan of an object..it should be assumed that they can do this...as for the rubber tires..you know its not rubber..they are made out of metal..they dont scan a semi driving by the highway and then stop at firestone before they roll out...its part of thier body just like everything else..

Transformers have never been realistic, they weren't in the show, they're not now.


correction...they ARE now...and honestly thats how it should be...comics is one thing..its fantasy..cartoons is another thing..its fantasy...but a live action non animated movie HAS to be realistic, unless they want it to be a joke

Oh, and in terms of what audiences will accept, millions of people accepted things like the Cirtoen bot (Traditional TF look), they accept things like the self building house in A Town Called Eureka (Mass shifting).

When it's animated well, they'll accept almost anything.
It's only the fandom that thinks everyone is as fickle as them.


i have no clue what the self building house is...im guessing that it doesnt go from mansion to outhouse though, and as for the citroen bot..it was a commercial for a car...it has to look like the car that its selling....

would people accept mass shifting and boxy transformers come 7/4...probably...will it be a better overall movie having them more realistic though instead....definetly
Bottom Out
Vehicon
Posts: 364
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:12 pm

Postby Sonray » Sun May 13, 2007 10:20 pm

Thaaaaankyou bottom out!
Sonray
City Commander
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Postby AbsumZer0 » Mon May 14, 2007 1:10 am

Hot_Rod wrote:
They say a Picture is worth a thousand words so I give you exhibit A...

http://www.jesterpictures.com/transformers/gallery.html

The Devastator video at the bottom is especially good! :grin:

If a fan can do that, I can only imagine what a proffesional could do!


...I'm sorry, but that video looked like one of Gilliam's Monty Python filler sketches.
AbsumZer0
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:13 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-GS23 DEEP COVER Transformers Generations Selects Deluxe Hasbro 2021 250506"
WFC-GS23 DEEP COVE ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Combiner Wars Sticker Set Optimus Maximus + Defensor Protectobots"
Transformers Combi ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Generations Comic EMIRATE XAARON + FLAME 2-Pack Set Hasbro 2024 New"
Transformers Gener ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SCOURGE + FRACAS Transformers Titans Return Deluxe complete Hasbro 2016 250205A"
SCOURGE + FRACAS T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-GS17 Shattered Glass Ratchet Transformers Generations Selects Hasbro 2024"
WFC-GS17 Shattered ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BLURR + HYPERFIRE Transformers Titans Return Deluxe complete Hasbro 2016 230427A"
BLURR + HYPERFIRE ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-GS13 HUBCAP Transformers Generations Selects Deluxe Hasbro 2020 250506"
WFC-GS13 HUBCAP Tr ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "LIFT-TICKET Transformers Legacy Deluxe Generations Selects Hasbro 2022 New"
LIFT-TICKET Transf ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BLURR + HYPERFIRE Transformers Titans Return Deluxe complete Hasbro 2016 250205A"
BLURR + HYPERFIRE ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "CYCLONUS + NIGHTSTICK Transformers Legacy Generations Selects Voyager 2022 New"
CYCLONUS + NIGHTST ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "MAGNIFICUS Transformers Legacy Deluxe Generations Selects Hasbro 2023 New"
MAGNIFICUS Transfo ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Go-Bot Guardians Transformers Generations Selects Legacy United 3-Pack New"
Go-Bot Guardians T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-GS17 Shattered Glass Optimus Prime +Ratchet Transformers Generations Selects"
WFC-GS17 Shattered ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Lancer ENAMEL PIN SDCC 2019 Transformers Generations Selects EE Hasbro NEW"
Lancer ENAMEL PIN ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers Authentics Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Arcee Action Figure Set" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers MPM-03 Movie 10th Anniversary Figure Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee Movie Toys, Power Charge Bumblebee Action Figure - Spinning Core, Lights and Sounds - Toys for Kids 6 and Up, 10.5-inch" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Quintus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Toys Megatron Cyberverse Ultimate Class Action Figure - Repeatable Fusion Mega Shot Action Attack Move - Toys for Kids 6 and Up, 11.5-inch" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Leader Evolution Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Combiner Wars Blast Off Megatronus Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Legends Class Chop Shop Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Chaos on Velocitron 5-Figure Pack" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Speed Series Bumblebee  (Chevrolet Camaro)" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Cyberverse Ultra Class Starscream" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.