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Leonardo wrote:In what way, though? What did any of the previous TF series have that this film lacks? If Transformers was unique before, why isn't this movie unique? What has changed?
Hot_Rod wrote:Good Post. ^
I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...
Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...
And to be fair, Bay also made Armageddon which was a great movie, and he also made Independance Day which I also enjoyed, however the Aliens were depicted as monsters out to give us doomsday. And that's exactly what he seems to be doing with the Transformers in this movie.
There were some other connections I had made along time ago but I forget what they were now. I want to say that someone had a connection to Mortal Kombat or Godzilla, but I honestly can't remember if that is true or whom it was.
The bottom line is when you look at the people behind it and their body of work, it's not very comforting. Especially when you then go and look at all the news pieces we've gotton on this movie since it started.
Hot_Rod wrote:I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...
Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...
Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Leonardo wrote:In what way, though? What did any of the previous TF series have that this film lacks? If Transformers was unique before, why isn't this movie unique? What has changed?
Sorry I didn't reply earlier.
In answer; several things, but I'll stick with three of the biggest.
Visually, the designs are very different.
I'm not one who says they look nothing like Transformers, because most designs do have enough in them that they do.
But they have lost a lot of their uniqueness and do resemble other mech.
From a non mech fanboy pov, I see overall shapes, roundness and similar that I associate with Gundam, design aspects I associate with Guyver, and so on.
That's seldom something I do with Transformers because they usually have a more unique look, one that's only similar to the two lines that created it.
Similarly, the overly Hollywood approach of good guys with more human faces and bad guys looking more like "aliens" or monsters is common, but not for Transformers.
Mythos wise, the movie gives us two races of advanced warrior fighting machines.
G1 gave us more of a Galactica approach, with the warrior race attacking a race ill equipped for battle.
Granted, the show did stick with the more generic evenly matched warrior thing, but it sank after 3 years.
The comic on the other hand cost money yet last three times that, mostly because the Galactica style gave it much more depth.
Outside of G1, we had Beast Wars. Again, this show was far more complex than your average toyline show and it was this depth that gave a sense of realism and bolstered the believability of the characterisations.
These are the franchises two most successful continuities and both delivered more than just good warrior robot fights bad warrior robot.
Finally, I think there's humour.
One thing Transformers has done expertly since day one is take itself seriously whilst aknowledging it's own absurdity. It was very knowing, very self aware.
Simon Furman did this brilliantly, as did the writers of Beast Wars.
From everything Bay and co have said; they're desperate for this not to be a stupid toy movie, and from all we have seen, it's taking itself far too seriously.
Most films that take themselves too seriously look more ridiculous for it.
To me, what we're getting is the equivalent of an X-Men film where they ignored all the complexities of the comics, glossed over the world they live in, ignored the prejudice that all mutants face, the way that shaped them and the conflict it provided and visually changed all the Mutants the way they did Deathstryke.
Oh, and considered itself to be not a comic book movie, but something more serious.
Superficially it still would have been X-Men, the names and powers are all still there, many would have been happy; but the things that made it iconic, the things that made it popular enough to get a movie in the first place when groups like the Justice League didn't, have been ignored.
Phategod1 wrote:A IMDB question here Did Desanto Do X-Men 2 & 3 or just the 1st?
[i]Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Similarly, the overly Hollywood approach of good guys with more human faces and bad guys looking more like "aliens" or monsters is common, but not for Transformers.
Outside of G1, we had Beast Wars. Again, this show was far more complex than your average toyline show and it was this depth that gave a sense of realism and bolstered the believability of the characterisations.
These are the franchises two most successful continuities and both delivered more than just good warrior robot fights bad warrior robot.
Finally, I think there's humour.
One thing Transformers has done expertly since day one is take itself seriously whilst aknowledging it's own absurdity. It was very knowing, very self aware.
Simon Furman did this brilliantly, as did the writers of Beast Wars.
From everything Bay and co have said; they're desperate for this not to be a stupid toy movie, and from all we have seen, it's taking itself far too seriously.
Most films that take themselves too seriously look more ridiculous for it.
AbsumZer0 wrote:Hot_Rod wrote:Good Post. ^
I think when you stop and think about who is behind making this movie, it puts in perspective exactly what we are getting...
Don Murphy - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
John Rogers - Catwomen
Tom DeSanto - X-men
Lorenzo di Bonaventura - Doom, Constantine
Michael Bay - The Island, Pearl Harbor, Bad Boys, Bad Boys 2...
And to be fair, Bay also made Armageddon which was a great movie, and he also made Independance Day which I also enjoyed, however the Aliens were depicted as monsters out to give us doomsday. And that's exactly what he seems to be doing with the Transformers in this movie.
There were some other connections I had made along time ago but I forget what they were now. I want to say that someone had a connection to Mortal Kombat or Godzilla, but I honestly can't remember if that is true or whom it was.
The bottom line is when you look at the people behind it and their body of work, it's not very comforting. Especially when you then go and look at all the news pieces we've gotton on this movie since it started.
I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with Independence Day. That was the Tristar Godzilla folks.
Phategod1 wrote:I know this topic with 29 pages has been neat to death but I saw this and had to post this
"Well, it's just, you know, listen, it's like...I didn't want to make the boxy characters, you know? Think about it, 30 feet in the air in the real world, just boxes, you know and it'd just look more fake, you know? And by adding more doo-dads, you know, stuff on the...stuff. Stuff on the robots, more car parts, and...you know you can just make it look more real."- Micheal Bay.
To all the Bay fans this is who you follow? This is the man you respect? If you honestly think TF will be a good movie because of Bay Intelligent movie making decisions you have my condolences and I have some beach front property in Arkansas to sell you.
1337W422102 wrote:This is kinda funny: I was just listening to music and looking at pictures of movie Prime, and the next song that played was "Death of Optimus Prime" from the animated movie... Maybe WinAmp's trying to tell me something.
Sonray wrote:Im still divided with the designs for some of the movie TF's, like Starscream for example, but other than him i think the new generation of TF's look pretty cool and realistic.
Sonray wrote:
I mean, its STILL a live action movie about Transformers!!
Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Sonray wrote:Im still divided with the designs for some of the movie TF's, like Starscream for example, but other than him i think the new generation of TF's look pretty cool and realistic.
I disagree.
They all look realistically rendered, but some do not look realistically designed.
Remember that Transformers are supposed to be a naturally occuring species, not purpose built war machines.
Nature develops creatures for survival, and one of the first things it does it reduce the number of weak points.
These designs often have a great deal of "internal" working exposed.
That's just not realistic.
Like that quote from Bay said, he felt more stuff on stuff, more parts made them look more real.
People have been applying that logic for decades.
It's the same reason we have those silly computers with lots of bulbs and numerous noises in old shows.
At the time, people thought complex = realistic.
Looking back and seeing how much simpler reality is, complex just looks stupid and unneccessary.
Same thing here.
These just look like Hollywood special effects, not an age old sepcies of naturally occuring creatures.
And I say that as someone who likes some of the designs.Sonray wrote:
I mean, its STILL a live action movie about Transformers!!
But this is what many dispute.
It IS a film about giant alien robots that change shape, but as some of the movie's haters point out, that could also describe Gobots.
Transformers is a franchise that is made up of numerous qualities and many of these qualities appear to be missing.
That it's Transformers in name means nothing if the rest is absent.
Sonray wrote:Erm...wasnt the transformers CREATED by another race, a.k.a. the quintessons or however its spelt?
Sonray wrote:As for them being gobots, i can hardly see how. You have Optimus Prime who CLEARLY looks like Optimus Prime, but as it has been said millions of times before you simply cant use old 80's robot designs for a 2007 movie! Things simply dont work that way.
Sonray wrote:At least the metal componants arent shrinking and morphing into smaller sizes like the original TF's did all the time.
Sonray wrote:you are going to miss out on one of the most action packed, collest and most exciting movies of the year.
Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Sonray wrote:you are going to miss out on one of the most action packed, collest and most exciting movies of the year.
Nope, come release day I'll be watching Harry Potter too.
Sonray wrote:
As for them being gobots, i can hardly see how. You have Optimus Prime who CLEARLY looks like Optimus Prime, but as it has been said millions of times before you simply cant use old 80's robot designs for a 2007 movie! Things simply dont work that way.
Move on with the times. A movie going audience expects a certain amount of beleivability, and having a 30-foot Transformers turning into a hand-held walkman isnt gonna fly on the big screen in this day and age!
That is why the designs have been changed so much, and i dont care what anyone says, they look realistic and like they actually WORK. At least the metal componants arent shrinking and morphing into smaller sizes like the original TF's did all the time. As i said, that SIMPLY WOULDNT WORK in a live action movie today.
Sonray wrote:I like how no one mentioned the fact that this TF movie is based on the G1 series, and NONE of the series's that you mentioned. Talk about missing the point.
Lycanthropictendencies wrote:Only in the cartoon.
In the comic and every continuity since it's been Primus, who was a god and the Transformers who naturally evolved.
Maybe you find it silly, but for over 20 years that's what set Transformers apart from every other boring mech show for many people.
3 points here.
1. You're missing the Gobots point completely. In my earlier comments I say that it could be Transformers in looks, but there is FAR MORE to Transformers than looks and names.
Aside from the superficial, there were many things that seperated Transformers from Gobots. You couldn't just take a Transformers script, change the names and likenesses and squeeze Gobots in or do the same the other way around because Transformers was just too different.
With the film, not all of these but several large things that made the two so different are absent.
2. Spiderman, Fantastic 4 and Iron Man say you can use old designs and it will work.
3. I didn't say old designs anyway. I reffered to a design style.
Alt Jazz is not as square as G1 Jazz, he's more articulate and more realistic. yet he retains the same overall stylings.
You can increase the realism, articulation and everything else much further than the Alt and still retain the overall style.
G2/A/E/C all shared the overall design style, it evolved and changed, but remained recognisable as the look that made Transformers famous, the look that made it so different from everything else.
Beast Wars didn't, but Beast Wars sold itself as Beast Wars before it sold itself as Transformers and very importantly, it kept with Transformers in that it looked like nothing else around in the giant mech field.
And RiD was a mix of the two styles.
The problems with the movie's changes is that they look like so many other mech styles merged into one with the traditional aspects as an afterthought.
It's not that change that so many find bad, it's the fact that the change has removed so many aspects that made Transformers what it was that it's Transformers on a technicality only.
No, they just have metal that bends and rubber tires that split in half without deflating. That so much more realistic.
Transformers have never been realistic, they weren't in the show, they're not now.
Oh, and in terms of what audiences will accept, millions of people accepted things like the Cirtoen bot (Traditional TF look), they accept things like the self building house in A Town Called Eureka (Mass shifting).
When it's animated well, they'll accept almost anything.
It's only the fandom that thinks everyone is as fickle as them.
Hot_Rod wrote:
They say a Picture is worth a thousand words so I give you exhibit A...
http://www.jesterpictures.com/transformers/gallery.html
The Devastator video at the bottom is especially good!![]()
If a fan can do that, I can only imagine what a proffesional could do!
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