The Energon Pub

Recently a bot just shifted over to the cons. Not a low level player either. The upper level bots are already off balance and usually out numbered against cons (heck even look at the results from fatal darkness). There cannot be an continual influx of bots going to con and cons going to bots and then not playing. Who were some of the con turned bots who stopped playing? GP and Highjump to just name the two biggest ones.

Indeed I find it that once in a while it is needed for balancing reasons, but this wasn't for balance. A player cannot change sides and the side that lost them gets nothing. The player that has recently changed sides only hurts the bots not having said player and the bots don't get anything back except losing a longstanding player who had remained faithfully playing HMW.

It used to be that there had to be a good reason to change sides, now it doesn't seem like there has to be. Where do you draw the line? When does it stop because one side loses so many players and gets nothing back? There needs to be better regulations in side switched and there also needs to be justification for it and reparation.

This isn't about high score lists, this is about losing players to the other faction and getting nothing back, and thus only hurting the side who loses the player all.

hey you got Kalon a few monthes back, free of charge.

while i do welcome "the player", it really is to the land of no opposition.

RP wise, it's war. That's how it works. When one side is betrayed by one of its members, or loses troops to defection, it very seldom benefits from that event.

RL wise, it's a game. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, and if he needs to ba con to have fun, that's his choice. And do we really want someone on our team who doesn't want to be there? He'd likely just quit playing altogether, and I'd rather face his bots in missions than see another long standing player wal away.

And also, being a game, equilibrium will probably eventually emerge as some high level cons, after a few months of no one to fight, decide to become bots, even if it's just to earn more xp.

Tammuz wrote:hey you got Kalon a few monthes back, free of charge.

I'm cheap, but not that cheap Tammuz

Crazyfists, according to the high scores summary, the bots outnumber the cons, on every level except 10, 8, and 6.

and if we go off this little stat, that glyph threw out after the xmas tournie(and does have some mistakes) we can see that bots tend to have more xp at each level and require more xp before leveling up.

Code: Select all

+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+
|level | faction    | bots | min XP(K)| max XP(K)| ave XP(K)|
+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+
|    0 | Autobot    | 2707 |      0.0 |     30.0 |      4.4 |
|    0 | Decepticon | 2131 |      0.0 |     54.0 |      5.3 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    1 | Autobot    | 2438 |      8.5 |    233.0 |     53.1 |
|    1 | Decepticon | 1819 |      8.5 |   1023.0 |     54.4 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    2 | Autobot    | 1135 |     72.0 |    771.0 |    216.0 |
|    2 | Decepticon |  885 |      0.0 |   1066.0 |    231.1 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    3 | Autobot    |  469 |    259.5 |   2104.0 |    693.8 |
|    3 | Decepticon |  424 |    252.0 |   1902.0 |    648.0 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    4 | Autobot    |  295 |    705.6 |   6084.0 |   1507.5 |
|    4 | Decepticon |  282 |    670.5 |   3678.0 |   1576.9 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    5 | Autobot    |  121 |   1459.0 |   8809.0 |   3319.8 |
|    5 | Decepticon |  166 |   1373.0 |   6308.0 |   3300.2 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    6 | Autobot    |   57 |   3044.5 |  16791.0 |   6609.0 |
|    6 | Decepticon |   47 |   2824.0 |  16279.0 |   7709.5 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    7 | Autobot    |   26 |   6377.0 |  19875.0 |  11080.1 |
|    7 | Decepticon |   23 |   5599.0 |  22267.0 |  11447.4 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    8 | Autobot    |    6 |  13313.0 |  41556.0 |  27916.0 |
|    8 | Decepticon |    8 |  10849.0 |  36756.0 |  19890.9 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    9 | Autobot    |    4 |  52339.0 |  70072.0 |  61319.2 |
|    9 | Decepticon |    4 |  32447.0 |  50744.0 |  42955.5 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|   10 | Autobot    |    2 | 111663.0 | 114735.0 | 113199.0 |
|   10 | Decepticon |    3 |  43184.0 |  92719.0 |  73135.3 |
+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+

I know 3 months is a chunk of time but I think this says it all

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... ummary.php

you take out the top bot (sprock) and the numbers are completely different. everyone is relying too much on numbers while they're missing the bigger pictures: side switching limitations, reparations, and the true lack of higher level bots. don't rely on numbers, rely on the number of players and activity of those players. its all very easy for cons to point out that it doesn't matter when they're getting the players.

again the point that i am trying to make goes unheeded and i get more number that aren't reflective of the actual game. again i go to the point that some players who switched to help balance for the bots aren't playing anymore, while the ones who went con still are and then they get more bots. so while the bots might have higher numbers, it does not truly reflect activity.

Im not too fussed why the autobots are crap, Im just fussed that they are crap. Losing members wont help them, which reduces the fun for us cons if there aint any decent competition.

Mind if a few of you cowards would just lvl up!

Certain cowards haven't been playing as of late, throw in a lack of Skits and it's no wonder there's next to no competition at higher levels.

And I said it elsewhere ... i'm sick of the 'Cons constantly propping up with the higher level 'Bot ranks. Just like i'm against side swapping unless it's positively absoloutely necessary and benefits the game.

Burn wrote:Certain cowards haven't been playing as of late, throw in a lack of Skits and it's no wonder there's next to no competition at higher levels.

And I said it elsewhere ... i'm sick of the 'Cons constantly propping up with the higher level 'Bot ranks. Just like i'm against side swapping unless it's positively absoloutely necessary and benefits the game.

this is why i love you burn and i agree 100%

Caelus wrote:RP wise, it's war. That's how it works. When one side is betrayed by one of its members, or loses troops to defection, it very seldom benefits from that event.

RL wise, it's a game. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, and if he needs to ba con to have fun, that's his choice. And do we really want someone on our team who doesn't want to be there? He'd likely just quit playing altogether, and I'd rather face his bots in missions than see another long standing player wal away.

And also, being a game, equilibrium will probably eventually emerge as some high level cons, after a few months of no one to fight, decide to become bots, even if it's just to earn more xp.

I agree with this 100%, well said, the answer is really simple yes its bad that theres not enough high level bots sooo, why not switch sides and even things out? just a question I am shooting out there.

Said it before & will say it again whether folks agree or disagree, like it or not.

Either get rid of the arena (not my first choice) OR the easiest way, make it less attractive.

If the arena was made into a Energon generator (either little or no XP given & maybe double the energon) it would have a double effect on the game:
-Less arena moneys
-more Energon for those that need it (some might say that some folks will go energon nuts, but it would be at the cost of little or not XP...ying-yang)

Rather simple solution, but too complex for folks to agree on...this game is suppose to be about a war, the arena is about personal glory (which is fine, but war is the true class of learning)

rant off (for now)

Zz wrote:Rather simple solution, but too complex for folks to agree on...this game is suppose to be about a war, the arena is about personal glory (which is fine, but war is the true class of learning)

Which is why it needs to be not gotten rid of, but converted into the challenge arena ... which has been discussed to death and i'm not going to bother posting all that AGAIN.

Burn wrote:

Zz wrote:Rather simple solution, but too complex for folks to agree on...this game is suppose to be about a war, the arena is about personal glory (which is fine, but war is the true class of learning)

Which is why it needs to be not gotten rid of, but converted into the challenge arena ... which has been discussed to death and i'm not going to bother posting all that AGAIN.

instead of getting both xp and energon in the arena just get energon let everyone get both xp and energon in missions maybe

Actually my plan for the challenge arena would see no xp OR energon given.

AND it would cost you energon to enter.

Thus making it the sort of thing you'd only do for glory.

Burn wrote:Actually my plan for the challenge arena would see no xp OR energon given.

AND it would cost you energon to enter.

Thus making it the sort of thing you'd only do for glory.

I like this idea, it's more fitting to what the arena's part is in the game

Burn wrote:Actually my plan for the challenge arena would see no xp OR energon given.

AND it would cost you energon to enter.

Thus making it the sort of thing you'd only do for glory.

i like it more like a gladitorial thing

Burn wrote:Actually my plan for the challenge arena would see no xp OR energon given.

AND it would cost you energon to enter.

Thus making it the sort of thing you'd only do for glory.

I like it aswell.It would make an interesting effect on the overall game.

The only problem with no Xp or Energon Burn is that it becomes a usless feature....kinda like Battle Beasts (for most folks).
If it is going to use up server memory, at least make it so it is being used. I understand wanting to just throw it out or water it down to nothing due to frustration, BUT as the saying goes "Don't throw out the barrel because of one bad apple" (or something like that).

People running around with larger amounts of Energon won't upset the game as it is right now (I say right now cus' we have no idea what is coming down the pipe in terms of changes). Also as I pointed out, making it so they have to give up getting XP to gain Energon is a pretty good offset if you ask me.
Lets say Bot X goes arena nuts & gets a chit load of Energon for a high end weapon (assuming a new system of weapons is introduced), although they could afford it, they won't have the XP & thus the necessary upgrades (required stats) to equip it.

I am sure you know this, but I have to disagree about throwing it out altogether, make it useful instead of another useless bunch of "Bells & whistles" for the game.


Simply put, WHY would people use something they have to pay for to get nothing out of it (lets be real here, bragging rights are nice for some folks, but for 95% it means nothing)

Tammuz wrote:Crazyfists, according to the high scores summary, the bots outnumber the cons, on every level except 10, 8, and 6.

and if we go off this little stat, that glyph threw out after the xmas tournie(and does have some mistakes) we can see that bots tend to have more xp at each level and require more xp before leveling up.

Code: Select all

+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+
|level | faction    | bots | min XP(K)| max XP(K)| ave XP(K)|
+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+
|    0 | Autobot    | 2707 |      0.0 |     30.0 |      4.4 |
|    0 | Decepticon | 2131 |      0.0 |     54.0 |      5.3 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    1 | Autobot    | 2438 |      8.5 |    233.0 |     53.1 |
|    1 | Decepticon | 1819 |      8.5 |   1023.0 |     54.4 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    2 | Autobot    | 1135 |     72.0 |    771.0 |    216.0 |
|    2 | Decepticon |  885 |      0.0 |   1066.0 |    231.1 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    3 | Autobot    |  469 |    259.5 |   2104.0 |    693.8 |
|    3 | Decepticon |  424 |    252.0 |   1902.0 |    648.0 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    4 | Autobot    |  295 |    705.6 |   6084.0 |   1507.5 |
|    4 | Decepticon |  282 |    670.5 |   3678.0 |   1576.9 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    5 | Autobot    |  121 |   1459.0 |   8809.0 |   3319.8 |
|    5 | Decepticon |  166 |   1373.0 |   6308.0 |   3300.2 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    6 | Autobot    |   57 |   3044.5 |  16791.0 |   6609.0 |
|    6 | Decepticon |   47 |   2824.0 |  16279.0 |   7709.5 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    7 | Autobot    |   26 |   6377.0 |  19875.0 |  11080.1 |
|    7 | Decepticon |   23 |   5599.0 |  22267.0 |  11447.4 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    8 | Autobot    |    6 |  13313.0 |  41556.0 |  27916.0 |
|    8 | Decepticon |    8 |  10849.0 |  36756.0 |  19890.9 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|    9 | Autobot    |    4 |  52339.0 |  70072.0 |  61319.2 |
|    9 | Decepticon |    4 |  32447.0 |  50744.0 |  42955.5 |
+------+------------+------+----------+----------+----------+
|   10 | Autobot    |    2 | 111663.0 | 114735.0 | 113199.0 |
|   10 | Decepticon |    3 |  43184.0 |  92719.0 |  73135.3 |
+======+============+======+==========+==========+==========+

Excuse me, but - "WTF" (c), as they say???
At level 2 the minimal XP for Decepticons stated as 0.0!!!
Someone tell me how one can be a lvl2 with no XP!!!

Or, if that's a mistake, you should correct it before presenting the table to us

Elcor wrote:

Tammuz wrote:and if we go off this little stat, that glyph threw out after the xmas tournie(and does have some mistakes)

Excuse me, but - "WTF" (c), as they say???
At level 2 the minimal XP for Decepticons stated as 0.0!!!
Someone tell me how one can be a lvl2 with no XP!!!

Or, if that's a mistake, you should correct it before presenting the table to us

Alternatively Elcor, you could learn to read what Tammuz has written before sniping at him about a chart that he didnt create?

Well balance has been struck anyway, the bots got a con for the bot we got.

That's nice. So because one person complains about a side-switch, we have to TOTALLY overhaul the game.

I'm sorry, forgive me for being selfish and/or naive, but the Arena isn't the problem. It's side-switching that's the problem. Revamping, overhauling, whatever the pitt you wanna call it--doesn't require eliminating the Arena.*

The bottom line is that the Cons are underplayed to begin with. I about shxt bricks when I found out that GP switched sides. But I wasn't pissed. Just wondering why we were losing one of our top generals. But the bottom line truly resonates with the side-switching. Eliminate that, and then you don't have a reason to complain, bitch, gripe, or generally be upset. Then again, if you just played the game and kept your nose to the grindstone being concerned with your OWN actions, you probably wouldn't really give a harley hoot about someone switching sides except for the sentimental value. Anyway...

Word.

* -- But if you were to eliminate/overhaul/change the Arena, I still think that for Level 0 players they should be able to receive both Experience AND Energon. I believe that to be fair to the new players

After observing this thread for the last couple of days, I'll offer these comments:

I am currently creating new features to the game. There are no plans to eliminate the arena in its current form until those features are implemented.

The arena is one of two things you can currently do in this game (minus bbg). It would be foolish to remove it right now just for the sake of removing it.

As for Burn's idea...I like it minus the fact that there would be no energon gained. Let's see what happens.

As for Traks defecting...Balance is a problem but it is deeper than one player switching sides. Some of you might prefer to continue watching veteran players leave due to boredom but I do not. I'm allowing a couple of Decepticons to switch also to maintain our facade of "balance". Perhaps asking me about a decision instead of assuming the game is falling into anarchy might be a better way to approach these situations from now on.

This is all I am going to comment on this thread. You can now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Alright, this is how I see it. Its always been as far as I have played that the Autobots dominate the lower levels 3 and down, while upwards of that the Decepticons tend to take over. It doesn't matter to me exactly how many TFs are active, or how many TFs per level, due to the timezones, and availbility of the players.

For whatever reason the newer Autobots don't tend to stick around as the Decepticons do. People like myself have now gained enough to be level 4-5 or more. Which makes the already short handed Autobots at that level even worse off.


Even if there was an option for everyone to reselect their faction and it came to a semi ballance it would only be temperary. New players, will choose with side they like versus the side which could really use them. Its been suggested that there might be an announcment on the page where you can select to suggest joining which ever side would be more in need. With the influx of new players I think this would probably benifit the game as it stands now.