The Energon Pub

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:32 am

Aerial Rescue Vehicles are Repair/Strafe, IIRC, not Avoid/Repair (that's Light Rescue Vehicle, I'm pretty sure). Used to have one in my group, and I'm honestly waiting for it to pop back up again in the altmode rotation because I think that's what I'm gonna put Eclipse into -- Gadget is okay and all, but can be a pain sometimes. I had to open up INT 2 and Repair 7 to go from top-end level 4 to top-end level 5, so that I could start getting more XP because Gadget Strafe tactics seem to be very hit-or-miss to me.

News Credits: 7 · Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:05 am

Imho you're right some combos are harder to run than others.

Avoid/repair or either tactic run on its own is a risky one as it relies on allies. If you are in a mission without backup you'll onoy be able to inflict damage via punch/kick/weapon and even if you have a 10,10 weapon that'll only inflict a couple of % damage onto 10 tons of rank10 armour. Sure you might rack up a few avoids at 50xp a go but past L1 that's not a lot.

I don't think ram/strafe is a poor choice itself but the xp needed to upgrade each tactic will be reflected in how quick they will be to grow.
For instance a tank starts off needing 1000xp for strafe but 4000 for ram. This is the opposite way around for a strong land animal.
At a low/mid level you'll generally earn more xp from ram than strafe since stats that help ram (strength and endurance) also help you to survive longer in missions. For strafe to work you need firepower. However if you don't also have decent stats for improving survival (speed, strength, endurance) you are likely to get SLed very quickly.

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:00 am

Avoid/Repair isn't bad if you don't care about winning.
Tracer uses it to good effect by softening up targets & keeping other players up to take them out. Thus earning a decent payout while (trying) to ensure the rest of the team gets one too.
Ugh.
Much touchy-feely.
Must be channeling Wingz.
Either that or wearing the Red badge is finally effecting me :SICK:

News Credits: 7 · Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:01 pm

You'd agree though that it's not a build you'd pick to use in a mission with no allies though right? With allies it's quite good as you can rack up lots of XP repairing. Without though you're never gonna earn much.

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:54 pm

At high level, yes, totally agree.

At mid or, especially, low level you can get away with no offensive tactics if your weapon is good enough, your END &/or SPD is high enough, or your opponents are inept enough.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 am

Answering a question that newbs may not know to ask:
Yes, "Stun" is a thing in the game.

When you are Rammed by an opponent that has higher strength than you do your character is "stunned". what this means as far as actual game mechanics is unclear but the net result is that you it will take you longer to get another action in the game.
For example
Notice how once Flatline got rammed a couple times he no longer got actions until his opponent made a couple basic weapon attacks when normally he would have had an action long before the 1:45 mark of the mission.

Bite is essentially a Ram clone so it also seems to have a stun effect.

Some claim that there is a stun effect with Repair as well (only instead of higher STR it's higher INT) if this is true it is less noticeable than the Ram stun but it does make a bit of sense since the formula for Repair is very similar to Ram it possible the same coding was used with minor changes.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am

Love how you used me there -- it's what I get for that Bragging Thread post, isn't it?

Seriously, though, it is a good example of stun-lock in RNG. I personally think the stun effect is overpowered, though I can't really point to any evidence to support my theory - it's just going by the old eyeball test. And while Flatline's stats in that example are woefully low compared to RMS Pieztanic (particularly in regards to COU, which brings up another point to me, but I'll get into that below), I still can't help but come away with that feeling. I've had missions where my characters have actually lasted a few minutes before getting stasis-locked (rare, especially compared to much more often I'm instant target by every Autobot in sight in missions, but that's yet another issue I have with RNG), but one ram within the first minute stun-locked my character so badly that they never got to do anything before being taken out anywhere from 3-5 minutes later in the mission).

This leads into the first point I have: I still can't help but feel that COU is more important a stat than people give it credit. I understand SPD governs your to-hit chance, and I get that STR boosts damage while STR+END incorporates armor for damage mitigation, but COU seems to govern (again, total eyeball test here) how many times you get to attack in a mission/arena match. And seeing those 1-10 and 1-11 missions... maybe I'm exaggerating here a bit, but I feel like at least 85-90 percent of all attacks in those missions are your high-level (level 8+) characters. Of the remaining percentage points, I also come away with the belief that low-level (levels 1-3) actually get given more chances to attack than the mid-levels (levels 4-7). Again, straight eyeball test here, no real evidence to back it up, so your mileage may vary.

I think the only "gripes" I have with the RNG of the game, though, actually stems not from any combat stat per se, but two things:

1) the plethora of what, at least to me, doesn't pass the eyeball test for overpowered weapons (I have characters with 7 tons of Iron and 6 END who can still be one-shot by 10/10s like Fusion Cannon, Dreadnought Missile, Magnus Hammer etc. Mind, I know Iron is crap for damage mitigation, but so is everything else through at least Rank 3 (it's sad that I think Iron is better than Vanadium-Steel, even though I remember that U238 used to be considered halfway decent back in the day for low- to mid-level characters). Even when I do survive a single shot from those 10/10s, I'm almost guaranteed to get hit by another shot within seconds, usually by the same character, which leads to my second gripe...

2) INT is bass-ackwards.

Intelligence: Learn certain tactics. Choose targets in combat who have high strength, high courage, high firepower, low endurance, (to a smaller extent) high skill, rank and intelligence, and (to an even smaller extent) low speed.

Again, this is eyeball test only. But I'm amazed at how often (never mind how quickly) I'm double- and triple-teamed by Autobots and taken out of a fight within the first 30-45 seconds of a mission, especially in 1-10 and 1-11 missions where I have plenty of backup and it looks like it would be a pretty even fight for the most part. I typically have no less than two high-level opponents who start right off the bat going for my characters because it seems like I consistently become a target due to everyone's INT being higher than mine, or how my rank is so low, etc.

If anything, INT should be targeting the true threats, possibly determined by number of upgrades a character possesses -- a level 5, for instance, is not a true threat to a level 10+ character. Another 10+ character? That's the true threat, or at least I feel like that should be how it's evaluated. But it feels backwards to me that, a lot of times in missions, the Autobots start with me as one of the lowest-ranked Decepticons in those 1-10 and 1-11 missions, and work their way up to the highest-level characters. It's the only way I can see why it is we see level 10s and 11s consistently coming away from those missions with six-figure XP awards, while lower-level characters (this basically being level 6 and below) are almost always in the bottom of the XP gains, if they get anything at all.

Whew, this is more long-winded than I'd intended for this, I confess. Sorry about that.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:55 am

Not a simple answer, but I'll put in an answer.

Iron is not super effective against the big guns. Combined with enough END, though, and you can take one shot. Same for Ceramic/Steel (Not much improvement). Duranium is solid, but you're better off skipping RNK 3 Armor. Bun-Bun's TAG testing will give us more solid info when he gets to level 3, but Duranium let my TFs survive 2 hits from a Fusion Cannon. When I upgraded to Vanadium-Steel, I survived one hit, so while it left me with a little more health than iron, but overall wasn't worth the energon layout. In my current experience, 6 END is where you start to hit that survivability mark. I find 6 STR and 8 END gives the best with no RNK. I reverse that in the case of a rammer/brawler. If A little is good...more must be better, but don't skimp on other things you need. And for Primus sake, add armor every time you add STR. It's cheaper, less time consuming, and gets you into a better habit than asking, why do I have 8 STR and 4 tons of Iron?

Regarding CRG, I usually don't put it so bluntly, but CRG doesn't function like it used to. It was probably (intentionally or unintentionally nerfed at some point). A high level character with no CRG, will act almost as frequently as a high lvl. character with no CRG. SPD dominated the scene back in my day, but survivability is a bigger issue in this changed landscape. Back then, 1-10 missions were a new thing, and they would fill before you could enter (even if you spawned it). We obviously have a much lower player base now, which makes cross-level missions essential. The conventional wisdom still holds true in at Level matchups, but those builds lose survivability against level 11s. But you'll never get 30k xp from ramming a level 4 (if you can find one to ram).

INT really hasn't been implemented (at least the italicized items, with the exception of learn new tactics). Your targets are chosen by the RNG. I've gone into a mission with one of my high level characters, only to spend the match chasing a high speed level 3 avoider while a level 11 chews me up. It happens. RNG sucks. He's your real enemy in the game. That's why stats above 5 are so impprtant. That's the only way you can exercise any sort of control.

News Credits: 7 · Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:04 am

Personally with armour I just go for the even numbered rank armours and skip the odd numbered ones.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:25 am

Huh. I know that way back when, most armor in Ranks 1-5 were considered... well, not that great, but better than nothing. Rank 6 was where I heard armor started to be worth it. But from what I've seen, it looks like that sentiment holds true: Rank 6, Rank 8 and Rank 10 are the "good" armors, but very few linger around the odd Rank numbers. I used to, but that was when a fair bit of my builds ran Rank 3 armor, and I know for certain Vandanium-Steel is pretty much worthless -- from the eyeball test, Iron seems superior to Vandanium-Steel.

I do have one character (Cerebra) with STR 8, END 7, RNK 2 with 8 tons of Duranium, and Cerebra does seem capable of taking more of a beating. Maybe that's what I should start doing -- go up to Rank 2 and switch out my Iron for Duranium on all my characters, and at least have that start on the Rank stat. Part of me, I confess, had been considering suffering through level 6 with Iron, just to get STR and END maxed out, and top out with 2 upgrades remaining to hit level 7, so as to begin the run to top out level 7 with STR 10/END 10/RNK 10 and have that vaunted 10 tons of Nano-Regenerative armor.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:39 am

My character, Exafold (level 6) has 10 tons of iron backed with 10 END. He can hold his own fairly well, but that kind of build won't work with every character, he's a rammer/brawler. Usually, 6 or 7 is a good place to start building RNK (if you've got a strong defensive foundation already) if your build can afford it. That's where you'll start seeing more armor worn by opposing players. Ultimax (level 9) and Warborn (level 8 ) are my only characters with better armor than Duranium (Not counting Crimson Voodoo, but he's not built to win). Usually, a couple ranks of armor were all that was keeping me from winning at Level matchups at that point.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:43 am

If you can do a character with 10 nano that soon, great, but don't make every character build that way. Aside from the expense, you'll be skimping on other stats/tactics that may help you more. None of my guys are anywhere near nano, and that's ok. But if I could get it, I certainly would.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 am

Here is 10 END/10 tons iron against a Dreadnaught Missile at 0:07. Not too shabby, if I say so myself.

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... _id=308300

News Credits: 7 · Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:00 pm

darksabrz wrote:Huh. I know that way back when, most armor in Ranks 1-5 were considered... well, not that great, but better than nothing. Rank 6 was where I heard armor started to be worth it. But from what I've seen, it looks like that sentiment holds true: Rank 6, Rank 8 and Rank 10 are the "good" armors, but very few linger around the odd Rank numbers. I used to, but that was when a fair bit of my builds ran Rank 3 armor, and I know for certain Vandanium-Steel is pretty much worthless -- from the eyeball test, Iron seems superior to Vandanium-Steel.

I do have one character (Cerebra) with STR 8, END 7, RNK 2 with 8 tons of Duranium, and Cerebra does seem capable of taking more of a beating. Maybe that's what I should start doing -- go up to Rank 2 and switch out my Iron for Duranium on all my characters, and at least have that start on the Rank stat. Part of me, I confess, had been considering suffering through level 6 with Iron, just to get STR and END maxed out, and top out with 2 upgrades remaining to hit level 7, so as to begin the run to top out level 7 with STR 10/END 10/RNK 10 and have that vaunted 10 tons of Nano-Regenerative armor.

I think people tend not to bother with rank 7 and 9 armours is because they get rather expensive the higher you go and the install time is so long, it's better to wait until you make 2 upgrades to rank rather than upgrade the armour each time you make 1.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:27 pm

I know the only ones I bother with are Rank 0,4,8,and 10 for the reasons HC stated. Not worth the down time & expense.
Especially for my un-resetable Alts... those are painful to upgrade.

Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:34 pm

Which armors are your preferred at 4 and 8, Bun-Bun? I'm assuming 10 is Nano-Regenerative.

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:27 am

darksabrz wrote:Which armors are your preferred at 4 and 8, Bun-Bun? I'm assuming 10 is Nano-Regenerative.

Sorry, missed this earlier.

At 4 I use Vac-Metal, 8 Dutronium. No real scientific reason for picking those. I just don't usually upgrade Rank until i can do a few levels at a time or I'm trying to sneak up a level and then I just buy whichever is more expensive in the hope that it's actually worth it.

Armor analysis has been a surprisingly hard nut to crack, especially now that I'm faced with having to fix the formula without the benefit of Tammuz (May His Maths be upon us) whispering sweet equations in my ear.

Wed May 06, 2020 4:32 pm

I know a long time ago, someone made a list of which stats affect the skills (strafe, repair, ram)

I know INT goes with repair and strength goes with ram, but which one goes with strafe? I'm trying a strafe-repair bot for the S&G.

Wed May 06, 2020 4:44 pm

INT feeds REP
FRP feeds STF
SPD feeds AVD (supposedly)
STR feeds RAM & BIT

Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 am

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... _id=324137

Question - Why did Hook, who only repaired 2% of health and did zero damage, get 81k XP from this mission? What am I missing?

Thu May 28, 2020 4:36 am

It has to do with the disparity of Hook currently being lvl 4 and the High Command being lvl 11. Much as if a lvl 4 character did 2% damage to a lvl 11 character.

Thu May 28, 2020 5:39 am

Because he didn't just repair 2%.
There is both "Overkill" & "overrepair in the game.
For example if a Bot only had 2% health left and you rammed it for 20% damage your Con would get XP & Energon for the full hit, not just 2%, even though the log wouldn't reflect that ( just stating that the Bot has been SL'd, not taken to -18%)
The same is true here, Hook did (& got credit for) more than 2% healing but the limits of the game log can only show that the character was fully healed.

*edit
In case you were wondering, I did the maths and Hook repaired HC for 39%.

Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 am

Oooooo fancy, thanks!

Sat May 30, 2020 10:45 pm

This may be the wrong place for this, and apologies if it is not, but how possible is it to swap around alt-modes in the game itself? And if it is do-able, is there any chance of at least one of the Grasshopper Fast Insect alts being changed to a Tough Insect? Purely from a flavor standpoint, it would be cool to make my character Kickback use his show Alt and give him more ability to contribute with the addition of Ram into his skill set, and Ram most closely replicates his powerful "donkeykick" he used to great effect

News Credits: 42 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:42 pm

Blitzwing_99 wrote:This may be the wrong place for this, and apologies if it is not, but how possible is it to swap around alt-modes in the game itself? And if it is do-able, is there any chance of at least one of the Grasshopper Fast Insect alts being changed to a Tough Insect? Purely from a flavor standpoint, it would be cool to make my character Kickback use his show Alt and give him more ability to contribute with the addition of Ram into his skill set, and Ram most closely replicates his powerful "donkeykick" he used to great effect

This is indeed possible but because the admin panel Burn and I have to work with is bitch to use, we generally wait for a bunch of updates at once so I'll add it to the list of the next wave.

Please note: Before we get a slew of requests, we are very limited in what we can and can't alter (as most of you will already know) so don't expect much. Or anything in fact. Especially as I'm so lazy.