The Energon Pub

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:55 am

Does Screamer have a good relationship with 'Warp and TC? Remembering the 'toon now (which I would actually have to go back and watch, for the most part), I can't recall any instances where the trio were particularly chummy. And being as thick as thieves, you'd often see 'Warp and TC together a lot while Starscream was off doing his own thing. It just makes me question their supposed "friendship".

So I have to ask... Does Starscream even care about Skywarp and Thundercracker? Seriously, does he consider them to be his friends?

Thanks for helping a really curious guy out.

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:39 pm

Plaything wrote:Does Screamer have a good relationship with 'Warp and TC? Remembering the 'toon now (which I would actually have to go back and watch, for the most part), I can't recall any instances where the trio were particularly chummy. And being as thick as thieves, you'd often see 'Warp and TC together a lot while Starscream was off doing his own thing. It just makes me question their supposed "friendship".

So I have to ask... Does Starscream even care about Skywarp and Thundercracker? Seriously, does he consider them to be his friends?

Thanks for helping a really curious guy out.

I would say, that his relationship with them is primarily superior/subordinate, and appears to only associate with them when it is neccesary (he is ordered to by Megatron, or it is beneficial for him) to do so.
So I don't think what they have could be considered 'friendship.'

And I don't think he actually cares about them either. (Remember, this is the guy who threw them out of Astrotrain.) To him, they are like a toaster or a blender. They are there until they break. Then they get tossed out into the garbage and replaced.

News Credits: 1 · Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:56 pm

I think you have to consider the continuity as well. In G1, yeah, they not only don't seem particularly chummy, but are also downright antagonistic. Other continuities are slightly less harsh--in DW, for example, even though Skywarp bitches about Starscream's idiocy, he does warp him out before the explosion. And in AHM, there is some sense of hesitation/angst as Skywarp shoots Thundercracker in the face and such.

Still, generally, no.

HK, until the fangirls get a hold of it. :BANG_HEAD:

Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:51 pm

hellkitty wrote:I think you have to consider the continuity as well. In G1, yeah, they not only don't seem particularly chummy, but are also downright antagonistic. Other continuities are slightly less harsh--in DW, for example, even though Skywarp bitches about Starscream's idiocy, he does warp him out before the explosion. And in AHM, there is some sense of hesitation/angst as Skywarp shoots Thundercracker in the face and such.

Still, generally, no.

HK, until the fangirls get a hold of it.

I agree with all of this, and wanted to add the following:

In the Games of Deception comic from Botcon 07, it seems that Skywarp and Thundercracker have had a legitemate relationship, and that one could consider them collegues if friends may be too strong a term. It's not a very well developed idea, as most of that comic is devoted to Elita-1 doing very little of value, but there are two-three panels where TC seems glad to see SW and SW kind of thugishly replies that he's glad to see TC.
Starscream however seems mainly buisness oriented and is his normal, G1 style self.
In AHM I agree with hellkitty as well, but in that series the Seekers as a group seem more friendly towards each other, but it seems to mainly be a shift in Starscreams' characterization. Starscream seemed a lot more group-oriented for AHM, and I at least got the feeling that he'd end up having TC and SW being his personal guard when he deposed Megatron, as opposed to G1 where it seems Starscream would basically think that offing Megs would allow his to rule all by himself. G1 Starscreams' visions of the future always seem to be 'just him' ,like the other Cons would sort of vanish after Megatron is vanquished. Not explianing that too well though....

I think what I'm trying to get at is that a/any relationship between the three seems predicated on Starscreams' predisposition towards the other two. The same would be extended to the Coneheads, in theory. Any relationship between the Seekers as a unit would depend on Starscreams' want of a relationship. We don't get much of the whole six Seeker team relationship in any continuity really to judge fromn though. I think Dirge is glimpsed in a panel or two of AHM, Thrust is mentioned in Spotlight Prowl (which stems from AHM-sorta), in G1 cartoonwise, by the time the Coneheads get voices (literally) Starscream is assumed to be dead (ghost of Starscream FTW) and so on. So we never get a picture of the whole Seeker bunch together. Maybe in Animated, but I'm not sure if that counts simply becuase it's not all the original Seekers and more importantly they are like segments of Starscreams' personality and not individual characters in the sense that the G1/AHM ones are.

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:35 am

There were some chummy moments, but Starscream always ruined them.

News Credits: 1 · Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:41 pm

I think the only thing that Starscream realistically cared about was becoming leader of the Decepticons. Anything and anyone else was simply a means to an end.

News Credits: 22 · Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:50 am

Does Starscream have ANY friends?

As for this particular "friendship," I think that they all put on a happy face most of the time, but Starscream has no problem throwing them both in front of a blast from Megatron's fusion cannon, and they know it.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:26 am

Dagon wrote:in G1 cartoonwise, by the time the Coneheads get voices (literally) Starscream is assumed to be dead (ghost of Starscream FTW) and so on. So we never get a picture of the whole Seeker bunch together. Maybe in Animated, but I'm not sure if that counts simply becuase it's not all the original Seekers and more importantly they are like segments of Starscreams' personality and not individual characters in the sense that the G1/AHM ones are.

The coneheads did talk in several season 2 episodes The Gambler, The Girl Who Loved Powerglide, Hoist Goes Hollywood, Megatron's Master Plan parts 1 and 2, and The Key to Vector Sigma part 1 just to name a few and they all had either featured one, two, or all three in speaker roles.

Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:48 am

Yes, but were they friendly words?

Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:47 am

hellkitty wrote:And in AHM, there is some sense of hesitation/angst as Skywarp shoots Thundercracker in the face and such.

Huh? Wha? Hey? Why would Skywarp do that? I would have never imagined--not in a million years--that 'Warp would do that to TC.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Does Starscream have ANY friends?

Well...he did have one, I think. Jetfire, once upon time.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for this particular "friendship," I think that they all put on a happy face most of the time, but Starscream has no problem throwing them both in front of a blast from Megatron's fusion cannon, and they know it.

Putting on that happy face for most of the time is quite an achievement in itself, I would say. lol

Cyberstrike wrote:
Dagon wrote:in G1 cartoonwise, by the time the Coneheads get voices (literally) Starscream is assumed to be dead (ghost of Starscream FTW) and so on. So we never get a picture of the whole Seeker bunch together. Maybe in Animated, but I'm not sure if that counts simply becuase it's not all the original Seekers and more importantly they are like segments of Starscreams' personality and not individual characters in the sense that the G1/AHM ones are.

The coneheads did talk in several season 2 episodes The Gambler, The Girl Who Loved Powerglide, Hoist Goes Hollywood, Megatron's Master Plan parts 1 and 2, and The Key to Vector Sigma part 1 just to name a few and they all had either featured one, two, or all three in speaker roles.

Just to comment further on what's being said here, I find it interesting, Dagon, how you've pointed out the incomplete Seeker portrait. It's funny how we never did get to see them all together, though 'Warp and TC, during the second season, did eventually fade into the background, becoming only secondary character themselves. There really wasn't much of a chance of seeing them all of the Seekers together. :(

Having said that, however, there were instances of Coneheads and Seekers mingling in certain episodes. In The God Gambit, we had Thrust, Starscream and Astrotrain chasing Cosmos through space, and in the episode A Decepticon Raider In King Arthur's Court, we had Ravage, Rumble, Ramjet and Starscream (again) up to no good way back in time. That's as good as it got, regarding the whole Seeker bunch thing.

Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:51 am

In the old cartoon, Thundercracker's utter loathing of Starscream is obvious by Episode 9, "Fire on the Mountain," where he is about to let Sky(Jet)fire destroy some turret that Starscream built--to Megatron's extreme dissatisfaction--in hopes that it will make the "geeky" (worst thing one Decepticon can call another, apparently) Starscream look even worse. Starscream overhears Thundercracker and calls him out . . . to seemingly no consequence.

Skywarp seems to dislike Starscream as well, although perhaps not to the point of outright sabotage. Earlier in that same episode, Megatron takes Skywarp along with him to find better steel for remaking Starscream's inadequate turret and leaves Starscream and Thundercracker behind to guard the crystal powering it. Humiliated, Starscream shrieks "How dare you assign me to guard duty, Megatron! I am the mighty Starscream!", to which Skywarp taunts "Have fun playing crystal nurse, Screamer! Byyyyyye!"

If you think about it, these incidents tell us a lot about the quieter Seekers' personalities. As a henchman, Thundercracker is pretty much a disgruntled employee. He's apathetic, frustrated, and ineffectual unless pushed. Thundercracker needs a reason to be loyal and often lacks one. Skywarp, by contrast, is just an immature bully. You can tell he doesn't think much about what he's ordered to do as long as he gets to be mean. Being a bully is reward enough for him. To my mind, they're both really hilarious for these reasons. You could easily imagine the following exchange:

Soundwave: Alert! Autobot intruders detected!

Starscream: Don't just stand there, you fools! Capture those meddling Autobots! Do as your leader commands!

Thundercracker: (deep sigh) Sure, I'll get right on it . . . whatever . . . (wanders off, ends up trying to unlock secret characters in Soul Calibur on Starscream's saved game)

Starscream: Aaaaargh! Must, I, the glorious Starscream, do everything???

Skywarp: Don't get your electro-panties in a twist, Screeeeeamer. The coneheads and me already caught the Autobots. I had Ramjet charge one while I teleported behind his legs. Whatta chump!

Megatron: Excellent, Skywarp. (glaring at Starscream) At least a few of you are good for something.

Starscream: Aaaaargh!

Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:21 am

^^^

hahaha nice

Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:28 am

I think I have to agree with most of what has already been said.

Starscream-Looks to the others as nothing more than co-workers/fodder.
Thundercracker- Is a disgruntled co-worker who dosn't really care either way.
(didn't his G1 tech spec say he wasn't sure of the Decepticon cause?)
Skywarp- is just a bully that dosn't care whats going on as long as he gets to cause trouble.

However, Transformers:War for Cybertron. I think, puts a whole new light on the trio,
The actually seem to, somewhat, get along. The Banter you hear between them during the second con mission is quite funny.

Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:06 pm

Doesn't Starscream taunt Thundercracker in that mission by telling him his dumber than Skywarp?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:48 pm

Yes. Yes he does.

I can't remember the first part but...

Skywarp-"Dumb?! I'll show you dumb Starscream!"

Starscream-"You always do."

Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:42 pm

Plaything wrote:
hellkitty wrote:Huh? Wha? Hey? Why would Skywarp do that? I would have never imagined--not in a million years--that 'Warp would do that to TC.

Yep, Last issue of AHM Skywarp put his null ray up to Thunderckracker's eye. Pointed out his betrayal to the decepticons. Then Pow! When i read that I was like :shock:

Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:56 pm

Well, in most cases, being a Seeker isn't something that is granted lightly. It's mostly a title that is earned through combat, and (I am assuming) an upgrade that reshapes the warrior in the Commander's (Starscream) image. So every seeker seems to be a highly motivated individual that got become a seeker by placing themselves (Thundercracker's honor), or the Decepticon cause first (Skywarp's loyalty to Megatron), hence no real loyalty to any other bot.

WFC, Animated, and most Transformers fiction in general imply/suggest that while many bots do share the same "Mold" so to speak, it doesn't mean that they share any loyalty/connection beyond that. The only case that runs counter to this is Dreamwave's Optmius Prime and Ultra Magnus. If mold sharing was something more than it was, then Prowl, Smokescreen, and Sliver/Bluestreak would've been their own separate unit to counter the Seekers.

So, any relationship that develops from any mold-sharing bots is something that is the result of working/being around with each other for so long and having common interests, like most relationships.

Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:11 am

Does Starscream have ANY friends?

As for this particular "friendship," I think that they all put on a happy face most of the time, but Starscream has no problem throwing them both in front of a blast from Megatron's fusion cannon, and they know it.

the closest thing that is considered a friend or at least a work colleague was JetFire a longtime ago when StarScream was/is a Scientist along with Jetfire this was before he met Megatron.

I'm not sure if Starscream was always like this, but he was ambitious in what ventures he took on.

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:35 am

I'm not complete caught up in the comics, but the three Seekers were never friends in the show. When I saw your post, I immediately thought of the Fire on the Mountain episode someone mentioned earlier, with Thundercracker trying to make Screamer look bad. I'd assume at least part of it has to do with simple military chain of command - sh*t rolls down hill, if you know what I mean. Megatron bashes Starscream's face in for failing in the last mission, so Starscream, with his bruised ego and compromised sense of control/power, rejuvenates himself by beating his subordinates in turn. Probably not physically, of course - although in many continuities, Starscream is second in skill & power only to Megatron, and could easily kill both of them at once - but likely through more of the harsh verbal abuse we saw in the cartoon.

The only continuity that I'm aware of where this is a different matter entirely is the Movieverse. In Reign of Starscream, Thundercracker is completely loyal to Starscream, defending him from a horde of drones and rogue Decepticons (several of which include Ramjet & Divebomb). Although Starscream is somewhat insulting toward him in the beginning (when he lets Arcee get away), he eventually accepted Thundercracker as his second-in-command, and I'd fully expected to see him in ROTF under Starscream's new Decepticons, but, alas, that wasn't the case. I really wish they'd implement Skywarp in the Movieverse, though. I love the ROTF design, and they could easily work in it as Starscream having shared his alt mode with a trusted subordinate (he mentioned doing this in Reign of Starscream), which is basically my explanation of Thundercracker's toy looking completely different from his Reign of Starscream appearance (as is the case with basically all ROTF toys and their comics counterparts).

Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:41 pm

I really liked Reign of Starscream. I felt it was well written for a Tf comic... though I felt the rest of the movieverse comics are failing in that regard.

Thundercracker has always been my favorite seeker and his RoSS version is one of my favorites. I was quite happy when I found the toy of him. That they managed to incorporate just about every character that had a toy out in the comic was, I thought awesome too.

The only seeker toy for the movieverse I lack now is Ramjet...

Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:17 pm

Speaking of Ramjet, in IDW's Spotlight #2, Ramjet gets his time to shine. He is an even meaner, colder S.O.B. than Screamer. Going so far as to scrap two of his mini-Construcicons. But even he learns not to bet against Megs. So I thinks Screamer's "friendship" was used more to keep an eye or an ear on Megs. For a warning of the bossbot's knowledge of his mutinous machinations.