The Energon Pub

[Kurona]

I'll admit, I don't really know IDW Roller's story well enough to say it isn't him. Where Japan doesn't get the IDW comics would they recognize Wandering Roller as anything but G1 cartoon roller? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to the comics.

Good question.

Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise CW Liokaiser as anything but a few weird retools? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.
Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise Generations 2011 Sky Shadow as anything but a strange reference to Cybertron or Beast Wars Sky Shadow? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.
Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise Botcon 2005 Deathsaurus as anything but a re-use of RiD Megatron into a completely new character? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.

[Sabrblade]

Would you think the same about Breakdown and Thrust? Neither of their bios are explicit about those two being non-G1-cartoonverse dudes specifically from Armada and Prime universes either, yet everyone has been willingly accepting of the idea of them being Armadaverse and Primeverse versions of those two non-G1-cartoonverse characters. Why is Roller exempt from that kind of acceptance when he is presented in the exact same manner in both his bio and the Grand Galvatron comic as those two are in both of their bios and the Grand Galvatron comic?

Because they're shown clearly in the comic as being without a doubt the same characters from their respective cartoons. I mean, who else would they be, they certainly wouldn't be confused for the G1 versions.

And yet, modern fictions have gone and transplanted originally non-G1 characters into G1-set stories as new G1 versions of those characters who look exactly the same as their original non-G1 counterparts. Both IDW and Fun Pub have been extremely guilty of this lately, so what makes that Thrust and that Breakdown stand out as obviously being the original non-G1 versions of those two instead of the same kind of G1-transplanted versions that IDW and Fun Pub have done and which you're suggesting has been done for Roller?

Roller stands out because his picture is shadowed as if they needed a proxy original robot mode since it would be hard to explain one, so may as well use the IDW version since the figure is going to look different anyway.

Emerje

But if Sakamoto wanted it to be the G1 Cartoon Roller, why wouldn't he have just drawn the original drone vehicle instead of drawing the IDW character at all? Why would the G1 Cartoon Roller need to be represented by a robot mode it never had before and which the average Japanese fan wouldn't recognize as much as they would the little car form that that Roller always had? It doesn't make sense for Sakamoto to have presented IDW Roller's robot mode as G1 Cartoon Roller for an audience that isn't that familiar with the IDW character or his name affiliation with the little drone buggy that they do know of.

And it's not like Roller's so completely shadowed as to be unrecognizable to those who do know of him. His blue, orange, and gray colors are all quite visible on my screen.

Also, see Kurona's post above mine.

[o.supreme]

Where America didn't get Victory would they recognize CW Liokaiser as anything but a few weird retools? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.

North American fans have officially had access to Victory and the other Japanese animated series since S!F released them on DVD back in late 2011. Although Hasbro initially was very hesitant, I think it opened the door for use of many of these characters in the IDW comics (albeit not accurately represented), and toys such as Platinum CW Liokaiser. I just think it speaks volumes that so many of us fans assumed Wandering Roller was Roller from the original series. In fact couldn't IDW's Roller (being a close friend of Optimus Prime) in itself be a reinventing of the original series Roller? Seeing as how IDW so often likes to reinvent characters they believe had no personality, or discard the previously established personality of.

[Kurona]

Where America didn't get Victory would they recognize CW Liokaiser as anything but a few weird retools? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.

North American fans have officially had access to Victory and the other Japanese animated series since S!F released them on DVD back in late 2011. Although Hasbro initially was very hesitant, I think it opened the door for use of many of these characters in the IDW comics (albeit not accurately represented), and toys such as Platinum CW Liokaiser. I just think it speaks volumes that so many of us fans assumed Wandering Roller was Roller from the original series. In fact couldn't IDW's Roller (being a close friend of Optimus Prime) in itself be a reinventing of the original series Roller? Seeing as how IDW so often likes to reinvent characters they believe had no personality, or discard the previously established personality of.

The drone Roller showed up in IDW back when Furman was writing the series, while the character called Roller introduced much later is established as being a completely different entity. Reading into it one could in fact make the assumption that Optimus named his drone after his lost friend.

Most fans assuming that this Roller is the drone are assuming that because they aren't familiar with the Roller he's so obviously supposed to be.

[william-james88]

In fact couldn't IDW's Roller (being a close friend of Optimus Prime) in itself be a reinventing of the original series Roller? Seeing as how IDW so often likes to reinvent characters they believe had no personality, or discard the previously established personality of.

I like that idea, but the whole deal is that Optimus named his beep beep drone roller after his old friend Roller.

[o.supreme]

The drone Roller showed up in IDW back when Furman was writing the series...Most fans assuming that this Roller is the drone are assuming that because they aren't familiar with the Roller he's so obviously supposed to be.

I like that idea, but the whole deal is that Optimus named his beep beep drone roller after his old friend Roller.

I'm not trying to knock IDW here. I own, and have read every issue, but obviously the memories of these events are just not sticking, or are just not well known for so many people to assume differently. They go with what's familiar, what they know. Though WR may in fact be IDW Roller, this begs the question, why make such an obscure choice? All the other members of Grand Galvatron are based on characters from various animated series that are arguably much more well known.

[Autobot N]

http://imgur.com/a/tm4Gn

[Kurona]

The drone Roller showed up in IDW back when Furman was writing the series...Most fans assuming that this Roller is the drone are assuming that because they aren't familiar with the Roller he's so obviously supposed to be.

I like that idea, but the whole deal is that Optimus named his beep beep drone roller after his old friend Roller.

I'm not trying to knock IDW here. I own, and have read every issue, but obviously the memories of these events are just not sticking, or are just not well known for so many people to assume differently. They go with what's familiar, what they know. Though WR may in fact be IDW Roller, this begs the question, why make such an obscure choice? All the other members of Grand Galvatron are based on characters from various animated series that are arguably much more well known.

Well... why not?
We don't really need to know the reason behind the choice. I just find it bizarre that this argument is happening at all; every single piece of evidence points towards this being a version of the IDW Roller rather than the drone. If you want to imagine it's the drone, then cool, all the power to you. These are at the end of the day toys and you can do with them what you like and headcanon what you like; imagination's one of the best things Transformers has inspired in my opinion.
But in terms of facts and what this is supposed to be, it's very clearly supposed to be IDW Roller. Again, everything points towards it and I just don't see why there's any doubt about it.

[Sigma Magnus]

http://imgur.com/a/tm4Gn

Now that is a plot twist! I'm impressed!

[o.supreme]

Not an argument, so much as a discussion. Of course these toys can be whatever we want, just trying to understand the logic behind the choice. Based on this logic, Deluxe Drag Strip from CW could be the character from the DOTM movie toy line, after all they are both yellow F-1 racers...

[Coptur]

http://imgur.com/a/tm4Gn

Thank you Autobot N

So if i'm reading this correctly Grand Scourge is Black Convoy/Scourge?? or....is he deceiving Ruination to gain his trust??

I Wonder why Galvatron II's ghost appeared above G1-JapToon Galvatron's body..ah man i need to read up on Galvatron II again from the old G1-Comic.



ps regarding the Roller debate i'm not fussed i like both theories tbh

[Emerje]

Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise CW Liokaiser as anything but a few weird retools? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.
Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise Generations 2011 Sky Shadow as anything but a strange reference to Cybertron or Beast Wars Sky Shadow? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.
Where America didn't get Victory would they recognise Botcon 2005 Deathsaurus as anything but a re-use of RiD Megatron into a completely new character? Seems like a stretch to expect them to accept that having no access to Victory.

We have Victory on DVD from Shout Factory and all of those characters have been used in the IDW comics. BotCon caters to diehard fans, it'd be a little weird if the majority of people going there didn't at least vaguely know who Deathsaurus was and if they didn't then the club magazine that most of them had subscribed to I'm fairly certain told them. Plus all of those characters have had some 20 years to really saturate into our memory. They've been in toy magazines, ID guides, web articles, and eBay auctions. That doesn't compare to a more recent character in an English language comic so obscure that most American fans wouldn't recognize him. There's no comparison.

And yet, modern fictions have gone and transplanted originally non-G1 characters into G1-set stories as new G1 versions of those characters who look exactly the same as their original non-G1 counterparts. Both IDW and Fun Pub have been extremely guilty of this lately, so what makes that Thrust and that Breakdown stand out as obviously being the original non-G1 versions of those two instead of the same kind of G1-transplanted versions that IDW and Fun Pub have done and which you're suggesting has been done for Roller?

Well that's easy, it's because the story tells us so. G1 Breakdown has never been portrayed as being a zombie, but the Breadown in the comic that looks just like Prime Breakdown has. Likewise G1 Thrust never dealt directly with Unicron, but the guy in the comic that looks just like Micron Legends Thrust sure has. And really, when Fun Pub uses an unrelated design to represent the G1 version of another character they at least to make them look a little like the character they're supposed to represent. Besides, we already have G1 Breakdown in UW.

But if Sakamoto wanted it to be the G1 Cartoon Roller, why wouldn't he have just drawn the original drone vehicle instead of drawing the IDW character at all? Why would the G1 Cartoon Roller need to be represented by a robot mode it never had before and which the average Japanese fan wouldn't recognize as much as they would the little car form that that Roller always had? It doesn't make sense for Sakamoto to have presented IDW Roller's robot mode as G1 Cartoon Roller for an audience that isn't that familiar with the IDW character or his name affiliation with the little drone buggy that they do know of.

Don't forget, the whole point of this combiner was for Takara Tomy to use figures and head sculpts they hadn't used yet. The Rook mold would have been locked in already, but who else are you going to use to represent a six-wheeled vehicle like that? You talk about dual homages, well I think G1 Roller was the original intent for the character and the bot mode color scheme was chosen as a homage to the IDW version, but not representative of him. You spoke before about non-G1 characters being used to represent G1 characters, well that's what I think is happening here. I think he shadowed his image so we wouldn't think it was the same IDW character.

And it's not like Roller's so completely shadowed as to be unrecognizable to those who do know of him. His blue, orange, and gray colors are all quite visible on my screen.

"Those who do" being what tiny sliver of a fraction of the Japanese fan base? Seems like if he wanted it to be IDW Roller he'd have just drawn IDW roller and be done with it. I'm sure he didn't do it for the slightly larger sliver of a fraction of English speaking fans that know about IDW Roller.

Emerje

[fenrir72]

So coffee milk is enough to sweeten a deal with the devil

[Emerje]

OK, reading the comic I've got to ask, if Wandering Roller is supposed to be IDW Roller then why does cartoon story Optimus Prime a) recognize him as Roller, b) seem surprised that he would come to his defense, and c) not tell him he's got the wrong Optimus Prime?

Looks like another point for team "cartoon Roller".

Emerje

[william-james88]

OK, reading the comic I've got to ask, if Wandering Roller is supposed to be IDW Roller then why does cartoon story Optimus Prime a) recognize him as Roller

While all your points are good, thats the only one I need. I didnt think of that, I thought Optimus as being the same Optimus all the time, like an amalgamation of all that is Optimus. But yeah, if we are seeing the cartoon and the comic as 2 different continuities, then there would be 2 primes and so cartoon optimus shouldnt know an IDW only character

Unless Japan sees IDW as a continuation of the G1 cartoon and Roller being 2 forms of the same thing.

[Emerje]

Unless Japan sees IDW as a continuation of the G1 cartoon and Roller being 2 forms of the same thing.

That seems like a strange mistake for someone that apparently worked on the IDW comic to make. Of all the Japanese comic writers he should know that IDW is its own continuity.

Emerje

[william-james88]

Unless Japan sees IDW as a continuation of the G1 cartoon and Roller being 2 forms of the same thing.

That seems like a strange mistake for someone that apparently worked on the IDW comic to make. Of all the Japanese comic writers he should know that IDW is its own continuity.

Emerje

These are still the same people who haven't explained how Ratchet is alive and well.

[o.supreme]

These are still the same people who haven't explained how Ratchet is alive and well.

Yeah that's a tough one. I used to think, with respect specifically to Wheeljack's appearance in Victory that perhaps *somehow* he wasn't fully dead in TFTM, and he survived somehow, or the Autobots resurrected him. But the fact that in Dark Awakening, all the Autobots who supposedly died in the events of the movie, their bodies were sent into a star in that tomb ship...kind of hard to come back from that.

[Dagon]

their bodies were sent into a star in that tomb ship...kind of hard to come back from that.

It's not that hard. I do it at least once a week, just because.

[william-james88]

their bodies were sent into a star in that tomb ship...kind of hard to come back from that.

It's not that hard. I do it at least once a week, just because.

[Agamemnon]

their bodies were sent into a star in that tomb ship...kind of hard to come back from that.

It's not that hard. I do it at least once a week, just because.

I have a head canon for dealing with this. Some Autobots that did die were placed in the tomb. Others that were MIA in the war (the shuttle containing Ratchet and Ironhide could have continued on into space and were lost) had empty tombs as memorials. Others that were heavily damaged, perhaps requiring years of stasis to recover (maybe Wheeljack and Windcharger), were also included as empty tomb memorials to fool Decepticon spies in the hope of creating an advantage in the future. Wheeljack could be a part of super secret projects that the Decepticons would not be aware of.

Or, maybe a solution more in line with Unite Warriors is that Unicron stole the bodies out of the tomb before it was destroyed.

Or maybe reality jumping Deadpool....yeah, this could get even sillier.

[william-james88]

I was reading the comic and if the Roller that comes with Grand galvatron is IDW Roller, then this exchange makes no sense whatsoever:

[Kurona]

I was reading the comic and if the Roller that comes with Grand galvatron is IDW Roller, then this exchange makes no sense whatsoever:

Well, it is just Roller talking there. Doesn't give Optimus a chance to say anything more than his name. Maybe he's just a bit delusional

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Well I mean, the only thing Optimus says is "Roller!", and it looks like Roller is implying they can talk later and maybe not know that this Prime isn't his. Plus, Prime could have been informed by either the Oracle or by combination with the others that this guy was Roller and he was angry.

[Deadput]

Why is this absolutely dumb argument even happening?

WHY?!

Jesus god damn christ IDW Roller himself is drawn as the past version of this guy




It's right friggen there in the bottom even if it's in some shadow it's still IDW Roller the guy is a combination of both Rollers it's as simple as that it was a little comic made for a toy set that is clearly a mish mash of different characters from different universes lets look at the limbs.

Starscream: G1

Thrust: Armada

Breakdown: Prime

Roller: IDW