The Energon Pub

XenoStryker wrote:I really can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. The support for these KO's is disgusting. What better way for collectors to convince Hasbro/Takara to not officially release remakes of rare Transformers. And even if they have no plans to re-release these molds, supporting these KO manufactures is just awful. Not only does it cheapen the originals, it floods the market with fakes. How many unscrupulous people do you think are going to buy these KOs and then try to unload them on the not-so-savvy newbie collector? I've already seen it numerous times on ebay. I find this whole issue to be rather reprehensible. As collectors, the last thing we should ever want is for the market to be flooded with KOs. Especially high quality KOs.

Yeah, because it's totally unlikely that Hasbro would buy any and cast molds from them. Oh wait, no it's not. Your argument is invalid. Some of the knocked off toys are from molds Hasbro/Takara don't have anymore. Like Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, Shockwave, and all five Dinobots.

Also technically speaking Hasbro and Takara are guilty of being knock off makers themselves. It's true you know. See Jetfire is a Macross jet. Everyone knows that. Macross is owned by Bandai, a rival toy company to Takara. Well Bandai used to farm out some of it's toy lines to factories and such. One such factory was Matsushiro. Well it owned all of the molds it made and not Bandai. Bandai just owned the likenesses. When Matsushiro went out of business Takara swooped in and bought it. Because the molds were in the factory and part of the deal they legally acquired them in the purchase but had to pay Bandai likeness rights. It's the same **** that some of the more legitimate KO makers did. They bought out old closed down factories with the molds. They legally acquired them, but not the likenesses.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:

XenoStryker wrote:I really can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. The support for these KO's is disgusting. What better way for collectors to convince Hasbro/Takara to not officially release remakes of rare Transformers. And even if they have no plans to re-release these molds, supporting these KO manufactures is just awful. Not only does it cheapen the originals, it floods the market with fakes. How many unscrupulous people do you think are going to buy these KOs and then try to unload them on the not-so-savvy newbie collector? I've already seen it numerous times on ebay. I find this whole issue to be rather reprehensible. As collectors, the last thing we should ever want is for the market to be flooded with KOs. Especially high quality KOs.

Yeah, because it's totally unlikely that Hasbro would buy any and cast molds from them. Oh wait, no it's not. Your argument is invalid. Some of the knocked off toys are from molds Hasbro/Takara don't have anymore. Like Sunstreaker and Wheeljack, Shockwave, and all five Dinobots.

You know what really bugs me? These complainers are the same people who buy the 3rd party stuff without reservation. It doesn't make an ounce of sense, never has, never will.

Don't get me wrong, I want support for 3rd party stuff to continue, I do, but the people making complaints about bootlegs should be consistent. They buy 3rd party stuff which people claim steals from intellectual property, but they draw the line at bootlegs?

Here's the deal. Buy them or don't, but figure out which side of the fence you're on and STAY THERE. And quit whining about it.

Autobot032 wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:

XenoStryker wrote:I really can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. The support for these KO's is disgusting. What better way for collectors to convince Hasbro/Takara to not officially release remakes of rare Transformers. And even if they have no plans to re-release these molds, supporting these KO manufactures is just awful. Not only does it cheapen the originals, it floods the market with fakes. How many unscrupulous people do you think are going to buy these KOs and then try to unload them on the not-so-savvy newbie collector? I've already seen it numerous times on ebay. I find this whole issue to be rather reprehensible. As collectors, the last thing we should ever want is for the market to be flooded with KOs. Especially high quality KOs.

Yeah, because it's totally unlikely that Hasbro would buy any and cast molds from them. Oh wait, no it's not. Your argument is invalid. Some of the knocked off toys are from molds Hasbro/Takara don't have anymore. Like Sunstreaker and Wheeljack, Shockwave, and all five Dinobots.

You know what really bugs me? These complainers are the same people who buy the 3rd party stuff without reservation. It doesn't make an ounce of sense, never has, never will.

Don't get me wrong, I want support for 3rd party stuff to continue, I do, but the people making complaints about bootlegs should be consistent. They buy 3rd party stuff which people claim steals from intellectual property, but they draw the line at bootlegs?

Here's the deal. Buy them or don't, but figure out which side of the fence you're on and STAY THERE. And quit whining about it.

Let me be the first to say that I am a hypocrite when it comes to these Headmasters. The originals are an item I can't afford so I've somehow rationalized it that it's OK for me to buy these. They are currently my favorite guilty pleasure in the world of Transformers toys.

I'm personally morally torn about knock offs and 3rd party products. Some days I wish I didn't have any 3rd party products. Other days I wonder why Hasbro can't make something as cool as some of these 3rd party products? Where's Hasbro's G1/Classics Arcee? I've been patiently waiting for 24 years for a proper G1 Arcee. Shame on Hasbro for not doing it before a 3rd party company did. What about FansProject City Commander and Bruticus? These are things that Hasbro is not going to give us and has said in the past that there's not a market for them to do specialty items like City Commander. Yet at the same time they denounce these items. I'm also confused as the owner of this site why Hasbro hasn't put their foot down on these items. First with G1 knock offs and then with 3rd party products. They've been letting it go on for so long that the problem continues to get worse and worse.

It is my opinion that, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your stance regarding this issue), this problem will go on as long as Hasbro is making profits. When (and if) they stop making profits, the blame game might begin. I believe it is at that point that they'll fiercely go after protecting their brand.

I believe this issue should have been dealt with about 5 years ago at the most when it was really starting to pick up steam. It wasn't handled then so I don't know where it will end now.

This leaves fans with a tough position to be in. I obviously first and foremost want to support Hasbro and Tomy. They've taken pretty good care of us for the past 3 decades. But when they're not setting the example and letting these things continue, we're left in a position to fend for ourselves as fans on what we should do here.

As for the knock off Headmasters, I've flip-flopped on this one. I am generally 100% adamantly opposed to knock offs, but in this case I've welcomed them. This is not an item that Hasbro or Tomy would be reissuing any time soon ... as in probably never in my opinion. I could see the dinocassettes being reissued but not these Headmasters. The cassettes make sense because most of us have a Soundwave and/or Blaster or at the minimum there are a very large number of us who do own those two figures which the Cassettes would be compatible with. There has not been a single reissue of a Headmaster figure. The last use of a G1 Headmaster mold was 10 years ago already. I feel like they've got something against Headmasters and Targetmasters.

In the meantime, I welcome this high quality knock off. I had zero plans on dropping down $2000+ on a set of 6 of these so getting them for $100 shipped was a no brainer for me.

I am morally torn on this issue. I'm being a hypocrite. It sucks. I wish Hasbro would put their foot down because it would make life much simpler if we knew that they were working to stop these things from being made.

Just enjoy what's there while it's there, and don't feel badly about doing what you do in regards to this.

And since I now have two of four dinocassettes that combine, I say HASBRO and TT stay away from them!

I think they have a ways to go before they get to those guys.

You have Slamdance and Beastbox to do first. I would definitely go for them.

tigertracks 24 wrote:And since I now have two of four dinocassettes that combine, I say HASBRO and TT stay away from them!

You sound like some fans from 10 years ago when they first reissued Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod for the 15th anniversary in Japan. I own a beautiful immaculate MIB G1 Overlord stickers unapplied and missiles on the tree still. I look forward to the day when Overlord is reissued officially as well as other Japanese exclusives like Deszaras, Star Saber, Black Zarak and others.

Seibertron wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:And since I now have two of four dinocassettes that combine, I say HASBRO and TT stay away from them!

You sound like some fans from 10 years ago when they first reissued Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod for the 15th anniversary in Japan. I own a beautiful immaculate MIB G1 Overlord stickers unapplied and missiles on the tree still. I look forward to the day when Overlord is reissued officially as well as other Japanese exclusives like Deszaras, Star Saber, Black Zarak and others.

I have very fine versions of all of those as well, so STAY THE HELL away from them too HASBRO and TT!

Seibertron wrote:You sound like some fans from 10 years ago when they first reissued Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod for the 15th anniversary in Japan. I own a beautiful immaculate MIB G1 Overlord stickers unapplied and missiles on the tree still. I look forward to the day when Overlord is reissued officially as well as other Japanese exclusives like Deszaras, Star Saber, Black Zarak and others.

I have a very minty Star Saber but wouldn't mind if they did a reissue. The rest of these are sorely needed.

Seibertron wrote:The originals are an item I can't afford so I've somehow rationalized it that it's OK for me to buy these. They are currently my favorite guilty pleasure in the world of Transformers toys.

I'm personally morally torn about knock offs and 3rd party products. Some days I wish I didn't have any 3rd party products. I am morally torn on this issue. I'm being a hypocrite. It sucks.

I'm just floored when I read posts like this.

I'm sorry, but I find this argument to be absolutely ridiculous for one reason:

They're toys.

This is not reverse engineering a computer and selling it's secrets to the highest bidder, or some other form of corporate espionage that could destroy careers and lives.

This is a bunch of toys that a few crafty individuals decided to copy. It's not the end of the world. You're not killing puppies or mowing down kittens or killing someone. These are toys. Toys that are no longer manufactured, and according to the people running the show, their molds are destroyed and no longer exist. (I.E. we're not gonna make 'em)

People have so much remorse for buying these things (or claim they do) and go on and on about it, but they wouldn't think twice about the person they just flipped off, a harsh word said to a spouse, or stealing a coworker's credit for a promotion, but this? People are tearing themselves apart over some bootlegged toys that are 20+ years old?

You've got to be kidding me. It's great to have a conscience and all, but if buying some bootleg toys makes you this miserable, that's absolutely ridiculous and it's time for you take a step back and say "Okay. I've really crossed a line. And that line's starting to blur... I think I'm losing grip with reality."

Is intellectual property important? Sure.
Is Hasbro or TakaraTomy doing anything about? Don't know, but it seems to be no.

If Hasbro or TakaraTomy aren't knocking at your door and yelling at you for it, then I think it's pretty safe to say that buying these bootlegs is not going to bring about the end of the world.

If my collecting brought me this much misery and second guessing, I'd stop collecting. I'd also go seek help because I'd need a doctor who would laugh at me and say "THEY'RE TOYS! FOR PETE'S SAKE, YOU'RE RIPPING YOUR GUTS OUT OVER TOYS! SNAP THE HELL OUT OF IT!"

And they'd be right.

It's amazing to me how much pain this topic causes and how ridiculous it really is.

I think I'd have to blow my brains out if it got to me this bad. Seriously.

tigertracks 24 wrote:I have very fine versions of all of those as well, so STAY THE HELL away from them too HASBRO and TT!

I'm sorry, but mentalities like this are only adding to the problem. It's just flat out selfish and wrong. Why? I'll tell you why.

1.) Hasbro and TakaraTomy read things like this and see people complain and they add that to their list of reasons why they shouldn't make new reissues that people clamor for.

2.) Your minty original will still be worth more than the reissue, and people will be able to differentiate between the two. The value will remain the same.

3.) This is hobby meant to be for fun, not profit. If you're worried about them losing value, go play in the stock market, don't collect toys. Toys are meant to be enjoyed and spent on, not an investment.

4.) It's been long enough. People have wanted these rare toys since their youth and it shouldn't have to cost them an arm and a leg to reclaim a piece of their youth, or get to enjoy it for the first time, ever. There is no good reason why the reissues should be vilified.

This is exactly where the bootleggers and knock off makers come in. They see people with the originals say "Oh Hasbro! Please don't devalue my collectible! Please don't!" and they see empty spaces that the companies could fill, but don't, so these 3rd party people step up and fill the void, and do so nicely.

And they make it affordable too. Everyone should be allowed to have a piece of the action, not just a select few who have more dollars than sense. If there wasn't a market for these, they wouldn't be made.

There is no one to blame for this except us. The collectors and fans. We asked, someone answered.

And we should ask, and I'm glad they answered.

This entire argument is ridiculous. They're toys. What the hell are you people going to do when a real life problem rears it's ugly head?

I mean seriously, this is ridiculous.

Autobot032 wrote:I'm just floored when I read posts like this.

I'm sorry, but I find this argument to be absolutely ridiculous for one reason:

They're toys.

Someone wrote:They're just MP3s.

Someone wrote:It's just a movie!

Someone wrote:It's just one replica of a Rolex watch!

Someone wrote:It's just fake jewelry.

Someone wrote:It's just a bootleg with crappy quality.

Someone wrote:It was just one pair of jeans that I stole.

Someone wrote:It was just one house that I broke into.

Someone wrote:It was just one car that I stole.

Someone wrote:It was just one bank that I robbed.

Someone wrote:It was only kind-of-sort-of like "Predatory Lending".

So where does the line get drawn? Maybe between the first and second example? The 7th and 8th?

I have to admit that I stopped reading after this after reading your first few flawed lines of logic. I glanced at the rest of the post ... it reads just like other similar posts that I've read like yours over the last 10 years of owning this site. It doesn't matter that they're just "toys". The Transformers brand is the intellectual property of Hasbro. These people are replicating their work, illegally, and making counterfeit products off this. People go to jail for selling bootleg DVDs. People get sued for illegally sharing MP3s and Movies. It's along the same line.

Sorry, but "They're toys" doesn't cut it with your argument or your justification to not take this seriously.

EDIT: Not worth the trouble the post could cause.

Autobot032 wrote:
If my collecting brought me this much misery and second guessing, I'd stop collecting. I'd also go seek help because I'd need a doctor who would laugh at me and say "THEY'RE TOYS! FOR PETE'S SAKE, YOU'RE RIPPING YOUR GUTS OUT OVER TOYS! SNAP THE HELL OUT OF IT!"

And they'd be right.

It's amazing to me how much pain this topic causes and how ridiculous it really is.

I think I'd have to blow my brains out if it got to me this bad. Seriously.

tigertracks 24 wrote:I have very fine versions of all of those as well, so STAY THE HELL away from them too HASBRO and TT!

I'm sorry, but mentalities like this are only adding to the problem. It's just flat out selfish and wrong. Why? I'll tell you why.

1.) Hasbro and TakaraTomy read things like this and see people complain and they add that to their list of reasons why they shouldn't make new reissues that people clamor for.

2.) Your minty original will still be worth more than the reissue, and people will be able to differentiate between the two. The value will remain the same.

3.) This is hobby meant to be for fun, not profit. If you're worried about them losing value, go play in the stock market, don't collect toys. Toys are meant to be enjoyed and spent on, not an investment.

4.) It's been long enough. People have wanted these rare toys since their youth and it shouldn't have to cost them an arm and a leg to reclaim a piece of their youth, or get to enjoy it for the first time, ever. There is no good reason why the reissues should be vilified.

This is exactly where the bootleggers and knock off makers come in. They see people with the originals say "Oh Hasbro! Please don't devalue my collectible! Please don't!" and they see empty spaces that the companies could fill, but don't, so these 3rd party people step up and fill the void, and do so nicely.

And they make it affordable too. Everyone should be allowed to have a piece of the action, not just a select few who have more dollars than sense. If there wasn't a market for these, they wouldn't be made.

There is no one to blame for this except us. The collectors and fans. We asked, someone answered.

And we should ask, and I'm glad they answered.

This entire argument is ridiculous. They're toys. What the hell are you people going to do when a real life problem rears it's ugly head?

I mean seriously, this is ridiculous.

A.) I wasn't being serious.

B.) If HASBRO and TT change their money making ideas based on a post like mine or even 10 like mine, they need to hire new corporate business managers and have them pay attention to better statistics than, "these collectors will be pissed."

C.) Stocks are not half as fun as toys to play with.

D.) Everyone has their opinions, you can have yours, I can have mine. I can feel uncomfortable with rare Transformers getting re-issued if it strikes me. It may not even have been a monetary reason. It might have just been the whole, I like collecting these because they give ME positive adrenaline endorphins, whatever, but also because I am trying to assemble a rare collection, one in which your average collector has a harder time assembling due to rarity.

I have more to discuss, but am on the way out the door. You should not edit your thoughts, but defend them. Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

Seibertron wrote:Let me be the first to say that I am a hypocrite when it comes to these Headmasters. The originals are an item I can't afford so I've somehow rationalized it that it's OK for me to buy these. They are currently my favorite guilty pleasure in the world of Transformers toys.

I too hate buying knock-offs, but like you, I'm in a tough spot. My 10yo loves original G1 stuff, and I take him to the cons every year, but some of this stuff I just can't afford. We went to TFcon this year and I got four headmaster bodies for $25, yet I can't find heads for less than $40-$50, sometimes more. This headmaster set was the perfect alternative.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

I didn't cop out. I prevented myself from getting potentially banned. My post was well thought out and reasonable, but it was blunt, did have a tone of anger to it, and it was directed towards Seibertron's last post.

I don't know about you, but that's a breeding ground for trouble. Sometimes it's better just to shut up.

I chose not to get banned.

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

I didn't cop out. I prevented myself from getting potentially banned. My post was well thought out and reasonable, but it was blunt, did have a tone of anger to it, and it was directed towards Seibertron's last post.

I don't know about you, but that's a breeding ground for trouble. Sometimes it's better just to shut up.

I chose not to get banned.

Fair enough, but sometimes those are the most entertaining posts to read, and reply to. Coherently of course.

tigertracks 24 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

I didn't cop out. I prevented myself from getting potentially banned. My post was well thought out and reasonable, but it was blunt, did have a tone of anger to it, and it was directed towards Seibertron's last post.

I don't know about you, but that's a breeding ground for trouble. Sometimes it's better just to shut up.

I chose not to get banned.

Fair enough, but sometimes those are the most entertaining posts to read, and reply to. Coherently of course.

Er...not this one. Trust me. This one wouldn't have gotten laughs. O_o

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

I didn't cop out. I prevented myself from getting potentially banned. My post was well thought out and reasonable, but it was blunt, did have a tone of anger to it, and it was directed towards Seibertron's last post.

I don't know about you, but that's a breeding ground for trouble. Sometimes it's better just to shut up.

I chose not to get banned.

Fair enough, but sometimes those are the most entertaining posts to read, and reply to. Coherently of course.

Er...not this one. Trust me. This one wouldn't have gotten laughs. O_o

I said entertaining, not funny. Different things. Maybe thought-provoking would have been a better term there. Thanks for your discretion.

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Don't cop out with the whole, "My thoughts will cause trouble, and are not worth the effort of it." If they are well thought out, and reasonable, than there is no problem with you expressing them.

I didn't cop out. I prevented myself from getting potentially banned. My post was well thought out and reasonable, but it was blunt, did have a tone of anger to it, and it was directed towards Seibertron's last post.

I don't know about you, but that's a breeding ground for trouble. Sometimes it's better just to shut up.

I chose not to get banned.

Fair enough, but sometimes those are the most entertaining posts to read, and reply to. Coherently of course.

Er...not this one. Trust me. This one wouldn't have gotten laughs. O_o

I appreciate the restraint. Let's just agree to disagree.

On a side note, I'm not one of those site owners / staff members that bans people because they get mad at me. I'm thick skinned. I've taken quite the verbal abuse, but I'm pretty good at rolling with the punches. All that I ask is that it stay civil. It's a discussion forum ... there's supposed to be heated debates and disagreements. That's what the Internet is for, right?

Boy I really whacked the hornet's nest, didn't I?

XenoStryker wrote:Boy I really whacked the hornet's nest, didn't I?

Well, to be honest, yes.

I'm sorry to sound like a jerk here, but yes.

You can't have both ends of the argument here. You can't buy 3rd party, yet vilify bootleggers and so on.

That's why I said to pick one side of the fence and stick with it. Or if you want to live on both sides of the fence, do so, but don't complain about it.

You can't have it your way, this ain't Burger King.

My stance is this: I'm all for permanently shutting down every KO operation in existance. This is Hasbro's IP to protect, though. I will continue to support Hasbro/TT product whenever I can. However, until the day when KOs are wiped clean off the face of the earth forever more, I may pick up certain pieces as they interest me.

HighPrime wrote:My stance is this: I'm all for permanently shutting down every KO operation in existance. This is Hasbro's IP to protect, though. I will continue to support Hasbro/TT product whenever I can. However, until the day when KOs are wiped clean off the face of the earth forever more, I may pick up certain pieces as they interest me.

Your stance doesn't work. It simply doesn't.

If you're all for shutting down the KO/bootleg makers, but then buy certain pieces that interest you here and there, you're still supporting the 3rd party endeavor and you're not making much sense.

You either are okay with it, or you're not. There's no gray area on this topic. You either are okay with both Hasbro and 3rd party stuff, or you're okay with Hasbro only.

You cannot support both, yet complain about the one.

If I have to explain why, that's just ridiculous.

Autobot032 wrote:

HighPrime wrote:My stance is this: I'm all for permanently shutting down every KO operation in existance. This is Hasbro's IP to protect, though. I will continue to support Hasbro/TT product whenever I can. However, until the day when KOs are wiped clean off the face of the earth forever more, I may pick up certain pieces as they interest me.

Your stance doesn't work. It simply doesn't.

If you're all for shutting down the KO/bootleg makers, but then buy certain pieces that interest you here and there, you're still supporting the 3rd party endeavor and you're not making much sense.

You either are okay with it, or you're not. There's no gray area on this topic. You either are okay with both Hasbro and 3rd party stuff, or you're okay with Hasbro only.

You cannot support both, yet complain about the one.

If I have to explain why, that's just ridiculous.

I can support anything I choose. And so can everyone else. Deal with it or don't. You've made your point. You can live with everyone else's point, or not. That's your choice. No one will fall into line simply because you deem there's only 2 choices, though.

HighPrime wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

HighPrime wrote:My stance is this: I'm all for permanently shutting down every KO operation in existance. This is Hasbro's IP to protect, though. I will continue to support Hasbro/TT product whenever I can. However, until the day when KOs are wiped clean off the face of the earth forever more, I may pick up certain pieces as they interest me.

Your stance doesn't work. It simply doesn't.

If you're all for shutting down the KO/bootleg makers, but then buy certain pieces that interest you here and there, you're still supporting the 3rd party endeavor and you're not making much sense.

You either are okay with it, or you're not. There's no gray area on this topic. You either are okay with both Hasbro and 3rd party stuff, or you're okay with Hasbro only.

You cannot support both, yet complain about the one.

If I have to explain why, that's just ridiculous.

I can support anything I choose. And so can everyone else. Deal with it or don't. You've made your point. You can live with everyone else's point, or not. That's your choice. No one will fall into line simply because you deem there's only 2 choices, though.

Really? No. It doesn't work that way. It's true that you can support anything you want, yes. You don't have the right to bitch about it afterward, however.

You either want to support Hasbro and them alone and complain about IP and vilify the bootleggers, or you want to support both Hasbro and the bootleggers and have no right to complain about the bootleggers once you've given them your money.

It does not work, you do not have the right to do so. And you say deal with it or don't? Well guess what. If someone calls you on it, you have to deal with the fallout from it.

How about that?

EDIT: I support both. I don't hide the fact that I buy Hasbro and FansProject and whoever else. Hasbro gives me what I want, usually, and the other guys give me what I want that Hasbro either refuses to, or can't. In the end, it's win win and I have no reason to complain.

If I bought 3rd party stuff and then complained about it, I'd be a hypocrite and the people would have a right to tear me apart for it.

In fact, some of the time, I give my money more freely to the bootleggers and 3rd party guys than I do Hasbro. They deliver on dreams, we want our dreams fulfilled. I'll buy that, and I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.

When Hasbro pointblank asks me to stop buying this stuff, I will then counter with "Are you going to give us what they do?" if they say yes, I'll respect their wishes. If they tell me no, I'll tell them where to go.

And when Hasbro doesn't (and they won't), I'll gladly open my wallet again.

Autobot032 wrote:

HighPrime wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

HighPrime wrote:My stance is this: I'm all for permanently shutting down every KO operation in existance. This is Hasbro's IP to protect, though. I will continue to support Hasbro/TT product whenever I can. However, until the day when KOs are wiped clean off the face of the earth forever more, I may pick up certain pieces as they interest me.

Your stance doesn't work. It simply doesn't.

If you're all for shutting down the KO/bootleg makers, but then buy certain pieces that interest you here and there, you're still supporting the 3rd party endeavor and you're not making much sense.

You either are okay with it, or you're not. There's no gray area on this topic. You either are okay with both Hasbro and 3rd party stuff, or you're okay with Hasbro only.

You cannot support both, yet complain about the one.

If I have to explain why, that's just ridiculous.

I can support anything I choose. And so can everyone else. Deal with it or don't. You've made your point. You can live with everyone else's point, or not. That's your choice. No one will fall into line simply because you deem there's only 2 choices, though.

Really? No. It doesn't work that way. It's true that you can support anything you want, yes. You don't have the right to bitch about it afterward, however.

You either want to support Hasbro and them alone and complain about IP and vilify the bootleggers, or you want to support both Hasbro and the bootleggers and have no right to complain about the bootleggers once you've given them your money.

It does not work, you do not have the right to do so. And you say deal with it or don't? Well guess what. If someone calls you on it, you have to deal with the fallout from it.

How about that?

I don't recall bitching or complaining. You made those assumptions yourself. I just made a statement. Whether or not you agree with it is of no consequence to me. I'm certain you have no right to decide what rights I or anyone else has, either. You're free to make these unofficial decrees, of course.