The Energon Pub

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-family- ... 53345.html

I believe this is applicable and a tale of caution to other would be "investor" wanabees who look at TFs for the sole purpose of making a fast buck. Eerily similar to the Comic book Industry collapse in the early 1990s.

Getting one or maybe two versions of the fig is understandable but more than that is simply crazy! No wonder figs tend to get artificially low in the supply.........because they are artificially squeezed of the supply chain by idiots like these.

Yes, there should be stress on "investor" in this thread because rather than toy collecting as an interest, this family bought toys as an investment scheme.

I don't feel any sympathy for them. I understand and appreciate the intent since it's a good one(pay for the childrens' post secondary tuition), however, it was a big risk they took in order to try to make money. So now $100,000 of their savings is tied up in a physical asset that will not likely ever be able to provide a significant return, let alone break even with the money they've put into this investment.

I agree, it's this kind of mass purchasing of products for the sake of investing or basically scalping on the aftermarket that artificially inflates the value of commodities like toys.

The last thing I do when I buy anything relating to Transformers is think about how much I'd get for it later. I buy them for myself first and foremost!


Well ok maybe if I find a couple super rare guys I'll buy a few to sell

Ah, stupid people. The stock market exists for a reason, if you're dead set on investing, invest SMARTLY. I mean, if you wanting to invest a few hundred dollars somewhere random, sure, but THOUSANDS? I can't say I have much sympathy for something so short-sighted.

Made me think about when I bought 9 DOTM HA Leadfoot. I went to a toy clearance store, the kind that is not easely reachable by bus because it's on the side of a highway. There, I found the toys at only 15$+taxes each! There were the only ones in Québec that had them!

So, I went crazy and bought 9 of them. One to open for me, one for my MISB collection, and 7 to sell. At home, I notice that HA Leadfoot wont go higher than 25$ + shipping. Well, fawk. It took MONTHS to get rid of them. Also, the post office is reachable only by bus or a 20 minutes walk. I dont have a car.
Sigh, remove the base cost, taxes, and Ebay and Paypal fees and what I have left? 2$ of profit for each figures! WOO-HOO!
I still have one left, MISB for sale. Click the link in my sig, please.

Never again.
I will only buy for me from now on and I will only get a double to keep MISB only if it's on sale and if I REALLY feel like it.

I love when this happens gives me hope people will think twice about buying up every figure they see that they think will be in high demand.

When I first started collecting I bought doubles of some figs that I thought were hard to find with the mindset I could flip them or trade them. For the most part that as has not panned out. Im setting on a couple of HA Leadfoots, about 4 prime vehicons and about half of Hercules that Ill probably lose money on. When Hercules was coming out I pretty much decided that buying doubles was a waste of time. It doesnt help matters that Im not actively selling them at the moment. Since they are all boxed up, I think Ill just hold on to them for a couple more years and see if the market for them improves.

The only exceptions I can see are some of the MPs which were hard to find like Grimlock which I snagged a couple extra of and some of the earlier generations figures which are now getting harder/more expensive to come by. The only reason I have those is I tended to buy stuff on ebay in lots to get a better deal and started to accumulate doubles.

Back to this guy, that is just poor thinking. If he had any common sense he would have realized that beanie babies were a fad item, like ferbies, and he needed to buy and then quickly sell to make a profit. Toys like that dont have a long term value since they dont have the history of say TFs, GI Joes, or Star Wars stuff. Lesson learned, but sad that he squandered his nest egg.

Hehe, this is amusing. I mean, I feel bad for them ending up the way they did, losing all that money, but still, toys are NOT an investment (at least not for monetary gain) in the long term. You can never know if or when a toy is going to appreciate in value. In fact, even classic G1 figures (including the most rare/sacred 'grails') quite frequently fluctuate drastically in price. TFs are popular again now, so older figures go for decent prices and newer popular figures will pull a bit of profit after their initial wave of release, but eventually people who want G1 Transformers are either going to own all the ones they really want/are willing to shell out the $ for, or die. G1 TFs will likely hardly be collected by people who did not grow up in the 80s, and I just don't see quite the same nostalgia kick out of kids that grew up with later generations of TFs like Beast Wars and the Unicron Trilogy. For newer lines, Has/Tak have wised up and started doing re-runs of popular figures down the line if they see them selling out everywhere (like the Vehicon example cited above, as well as figures like Henkei Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus (who got a United release, likely only because of the Hasbro version going for so much thanks to FP) and all the countless runs and versions of the Seekers we've gotten/are still getting. The MPs have been no different. There was a run on Sideswipe on ebay once the etailers started selling out, the same with Soundwave, but they both got a second release because Takara realized the full demand for those figures had not yet been fulfilled. The same happened with MP-10.

Buying toys & comics as an investment doesn't come across as a wise decision. Buy 'em, enjoy them in whatever way you see fit (free and playable or decorated MISB) and hope that one day you can make money off them. Doesn't matter what you buy - toys, art, antiques, etc - if you buy it because you like it and in 20 years it's not worth much more than you paid for it (or it's worth even less) you at least were able to enjoy it for the time frame in which you had it. If it happens to appreciate in cost, it makes you even happier. If you bought it strictly as an investment chance are you're going to be very disappointed.

It's not totally stupid to think toys could be worth something later, though. Being a fan of tin toys I can say that there are some vintage ones that fetch rather handsome prices. But like anything it depends on the toy, the condition and the maker. And the number of toys that bring in big money are fewer in number than those that bring in little.

I think people just get excited when they see things go for wicked amounts of money and they want to try and cash in, not realizing that wildly popular things usually end up being worth very little later on because everyone had them (they're super mass produced). It's the stuff that goes mostly unnoticed and see's a revitalization in the future that has a greater chance of being worth something later on (ex: Suikoden II *curses* I need to replace my copy of the game, but the fragging thing goes for $100+ used, $200+ new because it tanked in stores *flips table* ).

Erailea wrote:Buying toys & comics as an investment doesn't come across as a wise decision. Buy 'em, enjoy them in whatever way you see fit (free and playable or decorated MISB) and hope that one day you can make money off them. Doesn't matter what you buy - toys, art, antiques, etc - if you buy it because you like it and in 20 years it's not worth much more than you paid for it (or it's worth even less) you at least were able to enjoy it for the time frame in which you had it. If it happens to appreciate in cost, it makes you even happier. If you bought it strictly as an investment chance are you're going to be very disappointed.

It's not totally stupid to think toys could be worth something later, though. Being a fan of tin toys I can say that there are some vintage ones that fetch rather handsome prices. But like anything it depends on the toy, the condition and the maker. And the number of toys that bring in big money are fewer in number than those that bring in little.

I think people just get excited when they see things go for wicked amounts of money and they want to try and cash in, not realizing that wildly popular things usually end up being worth very little later on because everyone had them (they're super mass produced). It's the stuff that goes mostly unnoticed and see's a revitalization in the future that has a greater chance of being worth something later on (ex: Suikoden II *curses* I need to replace my copy of the game, but the fragging thing goes for $100+ used, $200+ new because it tanked in stores *flips table* ).

Yeah. I remember that. It either was released in limited quantities (the game)or stank/was not appreciated( great game btw) but now it commands high prices due to the word of mouth demand. Same with Xenogears.

fenrir72 wrote:Yeah. I remember that. It either was released in limited quantities (the game)or stank/was not appreciated( great game btw) but now it commands high prices due to the word of mouth demand. Same with Xenogears.

And, hilariously enough in the same franchise, Xenoblade Chronicles. Being a store exclusive produced in a limited quantity has a way of doing that.

I've said it before and will say it again - it's impossible to know what's going to appreciate like crazy, and what won't. Did anyone think 5-6 years ago that Movie leaders would inflate like they have? No, you probably thought Walmart MP Skywarp would, and look at that.

ScottyP wrote:I've said it before and will say it again - it's impossible to know what's going to appreciate like crazy, and what won't. Did anyone think 5-6 years ago that Movie leaders would inflate like they have? No, you probably thought Walmart MP Skywarp would, and look at that.

Hehe, I still want an MP Skywarp, but I want a new one based on the MP-11 retool .

I have some Leader Primes (RotF and DotM, including the original Striker Prime), but I got them around the time they came out.

Rule of thumb: if it's something you and everyone around you is hoarding as a future investment, it'll probably never appreciate because everyone and their neighbor has a few dozen boxes of it.

Caught this and felt the need to address it as an aside before getting to the topic at hand.

RAcast wrote:Ah, stupid people. The stock market exists for a reason, if you're dead set on investing, invest SMARTLY. I mean, if you wanting to invest a few hundred dollars somewhere random, sure, but THOUSANDS? I can't say I have much sympathy for something so short-sighted.

On the contrary, with the looming global financial meltdown which several economists are predicting in the coming weeks, combined with bail in legislation (legalised deposit stealing to prop up the banks through a weekend long bankruptcy reorganisation - if you read the "Key Attributes" as laid out by the FSB) which the Bank of International Stability is pushing through the Financial Stability Board; investing in the stock market, or even leaving your money in the bank is about as wise as holding it near a naked flame.

The best option for people currently is to invest in precious metals. This may have been skating close to the political, but it was worth making a note of.



Now to the topic at hand.

I think it really depends why you're buying in bulk and the deal you get.

Case in point, a while back when Encore Ratchets and Ironhides hit rock bottom at $20 a pop, I splurged out on a case of each of them.

My logic here wasn't so much how much it was going to make me down the track, but how much it was going to save me down the track.

1 pair went to a pair of transfan friends as an additional wedding present. The other five I will sit on and hopefully give away as gifts to my kids when they come along. The kicker of all of this is that if I give them even the pair in a single gift, it'll only cost me $15 more than what a deluxe retails for out there.

So in short, it depends on just what what you define as financial reasons really. Let's face it, it's highly unlikely that I'd be able to buy my kids reissues for $20 a pop, 10 years down the track.

Bowspearer wrote:Caught this and felt the need to address it as an aside before getting to the topic at hand.

RAcast wrote:Ah, stupid people. The stock market exists for a reason, if you're dead set on investing, invest SMARTLY. I mean, if you wanting to invest a few hundred dollars somewhere random, sure, but THOUSANDS? I can't say I have much sympathy for something so short-sighted.

On the contrary, with the looming global financial meltdown which several economists are predicting in the coming weeks, combined with bail in legislation (legalised deposit stealing to prop up the banks through a weekend long bankruptcy reorganisation - if you read the "Key Attributes" as laid out by the FSB) which the Bank of International Stability is pushing through the Financial Stability Board; investing in the stock market, or even leaving your money in the bank is about as wise as holding it near a naked flame.

The best option for people currently is to invest in precious metals. This may have been skating close to the political, but it was worth making a note of.



Now to the topic at hand.

I think it really depends why you're buying in bulk and the deal you get.

Case in point, a while back when Encore Ratchets and Ironhides hit rock bottom at $20 a pop, I splurged out on a case of each of them.

My logic here wasn't so much how much it was going to make me down the track, but how much it was going to save me down the track.

1 pair went to a pair of transfan friends as an additional wedding present. The other five I will sit on and hopefully give away as gifts to my kids when they come along. The kicker of all of this is that if I give them even the pair in a single gift, it'll only cost me $15 more than what a deluxe retails for out there.

So in short, it depends on just what what you define as financial reasons really. Let's face it, it's highly unlikely that I'd be able to buy my kids reissues for $20 a pop, 10 years down the track.

Like I said, invest smartly.

Nice one on the cases of encores, can't be that pricewise.

fenrir72 wrote:Yeah. I remember that. It either was released in limited quantities (the game)or stank/was not appreciated( great game btw) but now it commands high prices due to the word of mouth demand. Same with Xenogears.

Xenogears is such an amazing game!! hehe love the game so much I brought the perfect works book. =X But the game worth money? Didn't they re-release it in a green greatest hit label? Thought it was pretty command now. Damn I would kill for any company to make a super articulated





Anyway back on topic. nothing popular is really going to hold value in Transformers. If something is going for crazy prices and you own it at the moment. you might as well get rid of it cause it will be reissued. (fortmax)(second run of MP soundwave, MP sideswipe) or KO'd (HA Jazz) or People might lose interest in it (Fansproject City Comander) That is if you're on the fence about it and or doesn't fit in your collection anymore.

mooncake623 wrote:Anyway back on topic. nothing popular is really going to hold value in Transformers. If something is going for crazy prices and you own it at the moment. you might as well get rid of it cause it will be reissued. (fortmax)(second run of MP soundwave, MP sideswipe) or KO'd (HA Jazz) or People might lose interest in it (Fansproject City Comander) That is if you're on the fence about it and or doesn't fit in your collection anymore.

I don't think anyone's lost interest in City Commander, since there's STILL no official G1 UM. It's just that the hype has died down and it's usually sold at a reasonable price (another example of priced bumped up by hype just for it to pegwarm later, albeit in ASIA, would be Dotm Que and Soundwave).

RAcast wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:Anyway back on topic. nothing popular is really going to hold value in Transformers. If something is going for crazy prices and you own it at the moment. you might as well get rid of it cause it will be reissued. (fortmax)(second run of MP soundwave, MP sideswipe) or KO'd (HA Jazz) or People might lose interest in it (Fansproject City Comander) That is if you're on the fence about it and or doesn't fit in your collection anymore.

I don't think anyone's lost interest in City Commander, since there's STILL no official G1 UM. It's just that the hype has died down and it's usually sold at a reasonable price (another example of priced bumped up by hype just for it to pegwarm later, albeit in ASIA, would be Dotm Que and Soundwave).

I definitely lost Interest in city commander. Really wanted one when the add on set was at $250 and the white UM was around $100, but I just couldn't pull the trigger... then I brought the newer henkei UM release.. and prices on the trailer dropped dramatically (due to KOs, re-re-reissues, and lost of interest from outdatedness?/) but I no longer want it...

mooncake623 wrote:

RAcast wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:Anyway back on topic. nothing popular is really going to hold value in Transformers. If something is going for crazy prices and you own it at the moment. you might as well get rid of it cause it will be reissued. (fortmax)(second run of MP soundwave, MP sideswipe) or KO'd (HA Jazz) or People might lose interest in it (Fansproject City Comander) That is if you're on the fence about it and or doesn't fit in your collection anymore.

I don't think anyone's lost interest in City Commander, since there's STILL no official G1 UM. It's just that the hype has died down and it's usually sold at a reasonable price (another example of priced bumped up by hype just for it to pegwarm later, albeit in ASIA, would be Dotm Que and Soundwave).

I definitely lost Interest in city commander. Really wanted one when the add on set was at $250 and the white UM was around $100, but I just couldn't pull the trigger... then I brought the newer henkei UM release.. and prices on the trailer dropped dramatically (due to KOs, re-re-reissues, and lost of interest from outdatedness?/) but I no longer want it...

Yeah, I think you're better off waiting at this point. I'm still confident that Takara is going to do *something* for UM, I just don't know what yet (please MP with combining trailer action !).

xyl360 wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:

RAcast wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:Anyway back on topic. nothing popular is really going to hold value in Transformers. If something is going for crazy prices and you own it at the moment. you might as well get rid of it cause it will be reissued. (fortmax)(second run of MP soundwave, MP sideswipe) or KO'd (HA Jazz) or People might lose interest in it (Fansproject City Comander) That is if you're on the fence about it and or doesn't fit in your collection anymore.

I don't think anyone's lost interest in City Commander, since there's STILL no official G1 UM. It's just that the hype has died down and it's usually sold at a reasonable price (another example of priced bumped up by hype just for it to pegwarm later, albeit in ASIA, would be Dotm Que and Soundwave).

I definitely lost Interest in city commander. Really wanted one when the add on set was at $250 and the white UM was around $100, but I just couldn't pull the trigger... then I brought the newer henkei UM release.. and prices on the trailer dropped dramatically (due to KOs, re-re-reissues, and lost of interest from outdatedness?/) but I no longer want it...

Yeah, I think you're better off waiting at this point. I'm still confident that Takara is going to do *something* for UM, I just don't know what yet (please MP with combining trailer action !).

Third party products are always going to have a high rate of value attrition. The only reason people buy them is lack of a decent official product from Hasbro and Takara, so when said official versions come along, demand drops like it's cabin space on the sinking Titanic.

Crazy.

I don't care if my MP-10 has gone up or down in value. I love him and love playing with him. If they value dropped to £5 I wouldn't care.

Moral of the story is........get into the collecting hobby, whether it be MLP, TF, GIJ etc because you love the hobby. I'd avoid going the way of Fanboy licking the MP-01 but you get my drift.......fair weather collectors or the predatory type of "investor"/collectors are NOT welcome at all!

Mykltron wrote:Crazy.

I don't care if my MP-10 has gone up or down in value. I love him and love playing with him. If they value dropped to £5 I wouldn't care.

I would. I'd buy it for 5 pounds.

Reminds me of my sig

If you want to get rich collect money not toys