The Energon Pub

Sowndwave76 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Cover panels for the arm sockets might have been possible by dropping those, but..
1. Even in the pre-austerity days, cover panels for the sockets that the hands fold into (Remember, this is a transforming toy, so robot bits like that have to be put away when possible) were considered optional.
2. Getting rid of them reduces the play value and features present.
3. A lot of people, especially kids - and Generations would still be comprised of Legion, Deluxe, and a handful of Voyager molds if it wasn't selling with kids - care more about features and play value than having the hand sockets be covered when the hands are out.

I see what you're saying... I really do... And still disagree...
Landing gear, and something that is basically an extra weapon when he already has a hand-held gun and a shoulder cannon...

I said those parts on the arms were landing gear and vehicle mode cannons. So they're armament as well as landing feet.
And did you not see the part about it the extra gun working as a hammer handle? To give more detail, it can be used to convert one of his cannons into a hammer weapon. In other words, a melee weapon. SIEGE is all about multiple weapons and weapon conversion and combination.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Not to mention, nix all the landing gear and that frees up even more plastic.

For a cosmetic feature that was treated as optional even before the austerity period, and which is of lower priority to a lot of people than weapons and action features.

Sowndwave76 wrote:And wait, landing gear really adds that much play value for a kid?????

It does when the vehicle mode has a harder time standing up without it. Plus again, they're also weapons.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Either way, it's super weak justification for huge holes in a figure's arms.

The big reason there are holes in the figure's arms is because the hands have to be put away. The rest is just reason for not covering those holes when the hands are out. The thickness of the hands can also play into it. It doesn't help that Soundwave had to have extra-long holes because of the stupid button-pushing finger.

It's all good, Zelda...
I'd prefer a robot mode look legit and complete,
whereas you don't, as long as there's landing gear cannons, and extra long rifles/axe options to play with.

Cool, man.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:And did you not see the part about it the extra gun working as a hammer handle? To give more detail, it can be used to convert one of his cannons into a hammer weapon. In other words, a melee weapon. SIEGE is all about multiple weapons and weapon conversion and combination.

Like this?

^Exactly that.

Sowndwave76 wrote:It's all good, Zelda...
I'd prefer a robot mode look legit and complete,

Yeah yeah yeah you've said you're not into the transforming robots for them being transforming robots. Which as I have said multiple times is the main reason for those holes, so that the robots can transform. We might see the holes less if slide-retracting hands made a comeback, but the current design team avoids those as fervently as they avoid telescoping legs. Mind you, Soundwave's sockets wouldn't be as big as they are if it wasn't for that stupid finger.

Sowndwave76 wrote:whereas you don't, as long as there's landing gear cannons, and extra long rifles/axe options to play with.

Cool, man.

I'm telling you why covering them would not be the biggest priority.
And it's more that I can suck it up and deal with the holes, both because of the play value and because fist socket covers were a luxury even before the plastic austerity period, both for cost saving reasons and because sometimes the fists are too big for them to work all that well.

Also, in Soundwave's case, those landing gear cannons are important because thanks to how his battery guns are repurposed... those cannons are the main weapons.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Yeah yeah yeah you've said you're not into the transforming robots for them being transforming robots. Which as I have said multiple times is the main reason for those holes, so that the robots can transform.

Actually, I've said I'm more concerned about the robot modes than the alt modes. That doesn't actually translate to me saying I wish they didn't transform.
I get that the empty spaces are for the fists once he's transformed... That never needed explaining.
But no "prioritizing" makes those look better.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm telling you why covering them would not be the biggest priority.
And it's more that I can suck it up and deal with the holes, both because of the play value and because fist socket covers were a luxury even before the plastic austerity period, both for cost saving reasons and because sometimes the fists are too big for them to work.

I don't expect you to read every post, but I've already said I'm interested in the ER version, especially for the tape recorder mode. But yes, congrats on being able suck it up.
Clearly you're a fan of the gimmicks and play value, and good for you, you play it up.
But you're giving all these reasons why I should be okay with something I don't like.
Sorry, you're not going to change my mind.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Yeah yeah yeah you've said you're not into the transforming robots for them being transforming robots. Which as I have said multiple times is the main reason for those holes, so that the robots can transform.

Actually, I've said I'm more concerned about the robot modes than the alt modes. That doesn't actually translate to me saying I wish they didn't transform.

No, but combined with your complaints it gave the impression that you're less than willing to accept compromises made for transformation.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I get that the empty spaces are for the fists once he's transformed... That never needed explaining.

I was hoping it didn't need explaining, but it felt like it needed emphasizing. Because it is and pretty much always has been a near-ubiquitous compromise with regard to foldaway fists, both for cost and other reasons.

Sowndwave76 wrote:But no "prioritizing" makes those look better.

Never said it would would make them look better. But knowing the design priorities, and - for the umpteenth time - the fact that very few molds with foldaway fists have had the luxury of cover panels for them (even pre-austerity), should make the practice comprehensible - hopefully enough so to bear.
Here's something that will make those holes look better though: They'll be a looooooooot smaller in person than in the renders. I'm pretty darn sure that ER/Netflix Soundwave is not 9 1/2" tall.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm telling you why covering them would not be the biggest priority.
And it's more that I can suck it up and deal with the holes, both because of the play value and because fist socket covers were a luxury even before the plastic austerity period, both for cost saving reasons and because sometimes the fists are too big for them to work.

I don't expect you to read every post, but I've already said I'm interested in the ER version, especially for the tape recorder mode. But yes, congrats on being able suck it up.
Clearly you're a fan of the gimmicks and play value, and good for you, you play it up.
But you're giving all these reasons why I should be okay with something I don't like.
Sorry, you're not going to change my mind.

1. I'm just saying, the vehicle mode of the SIEGE version would be poorer without those parts, so they make sense there. Yet more fool on the ER/Netflix version for not being an entirely new mold I supposed, although...
2. Even without the cannon/landing leg pieces using up plastic, his fists are so thick (as opposed to the dainty fists of the SIEGE Seeker mold) that they probably wouldn't have bothered with cover panels.
3. I don't exactly like the lack of fist socket covers either. But if you want to play with transforming toys smaller than Commander class, you are going to have to learn to live with it (especially since the current design team is averse to the one practice that might mitigate the need, just as they are averse to telescoping legs. Sigh).
Even in the pre-austerity years they were a shock on anything smaller than an Ultra. And these days, even Leaders can't reliably get them. Those few smaller figures (And they are few indeed) that have covers for their foldaway fists are, in my opinion, incredibly lucky.
4. That being said, Soundwave's sockets wouldn't have had to be so slagging deep if it wasn't for that stupid smegging finger.

Molds Voyager and smaller that have had covers for foldaway fists (to my knowledge; there may be some I overlooked):
* Cybertron Thundercracker
* Cybertron Evac
* Classics Megatron
* Titans Return Weirdwolf (AKA "Wolfwire")
* SIEGE Seeker mold
* Earthrise Seeker mold
I feel there's a few I'm forgetting (if someone knows, please tell me who), but even with that it's not exactly a long list.

TLDR:
* Coverless foldaway fist sockets are kinda annoying, but they're a near-ubiquitous compromise with said fists for both cost and other reasons (and have been for ages) and those are the only retractable fists the current design team will do, so it's either learn to live with them or severely limit your figure pool.
* The renders being larger than life makes Soundwave's fist sockets look worse than they will in hand
* The finger was stupid and made SIEGE Soundwave's fist sockets deeper than they would have needed to be otherwise.

aronjlove wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:And did you not see the part about it the extra gun working as a hammer handle? To give more detail, it can be used to convert one of his cannons into a hammer weapon. In other words, a melee weapon. SIEGE is all about multiple weapons and weapon conversion and combination.

Like this?

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that Soundwave's extra gun may not have originally been his to begin with.



It's possible they figured Megatron already had enough weapons between his Fusion Canon and his sword/gun-thing so they stuck this little Easter egg in Soundwave's mold instead. That's the theory anyway, not sure if anyone has ever actually asked Warden about it (and we probably wont ever get the chance to now).

Emerje

There's more to that "useless" gun than meet the eyes!

Looking at these images again, why does Hasbro insist on making Soundwave's eyes yellow?

Probably because the toy had yellow eyes

IMO, screw cartoon accuracy.
Soundwave is WAY better looking with the OG yellow eyes. Make for a better contrast with the blue of his body than the cartoon red eyes.

Sabrblade wrote:The yellow eyes used to bother me until I read the Marvel Comics and found that Soundwave to be much better and deeper a character than the cartoon's wooden "Yes, Megatron, as you command," personality-scarce take on Soundwave.

Frankly, I prefer purple, more kissable Soundwave...

If you think about it, with soundwave being mostly a retool, that means they took into consideration 4 different transformations when they designed him
1) Robot
2) Spaceship
3) Cybertron light post
4) Tapedeck

Also explains why it was so easy to come up with a "fan transformation" to get siege to a tapedeck like version.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
I've always seen it as a forward-protruding chin, not a goatee.

I'm more irked by the spoiler and the modern-looking front end. If not for the lightbar and the wheel clips, you could mistake that for Universe: Classics 2.0 Prowl.

Chin or goatee, Prowl lost it with the Masterpiece, but Bluestreak did not. The crest on the helmet on ER Prowl resembles Masterpiece bluestreak's head, while Siege Prowl has the more toy accurate head.

Sabrblade wrote:Either way, looks like Netflix Soundwave might have red eyes after all.

Gah, the optimus has only one faction symbol on the wrong shoulder now and the shoulders don't have the corrected red bits. Hands still look metallic blue too. The image doesn't seem mirrored as soundwaves missiles are on the correct side. I'll have to wait for the release to decide.

Am I the only one who's disappointed that Netflix Impactor doesn't use the IDW headsculpt?

Also, Bee's headsculpt looks so much better in that that pic than in the renders. The renders gave me MP-45 flashbacks.

Tuned Agent wrote:Am I the only one who's disappointed that Netflix Impactor doesn't use the IDW headsculpt?

Not terribly surprised, he used the retail release head in the trailer he showed up in. I would have preferred the IDW head though

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No, but combined with your complaints it gave the impression that you're less than willing to accept compromises made for transformation.

I'm not sure why my response bothered you so much, but "accept" and "like" can be on opposite sides of the spectrum and still both exist.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I was hoping it didn't need explaining, but it felt like it needed emphasizing. Because it is and pretty much always has been a near-ubiquitous compromise with regard to foldaway fists, both for cost and other reasons.

You keep saying this like it's going to change my mind... "Always been...." was a part of my point. Just as lots of people say it's past time for other series and characters to get more attention, I'm saying that doing something that makes a figure look more complete can also happen by now.
And you've even given a list of how it's happened in the past, so it most definitely is possible. "Well, costs of plastic....". That still isn't good enough justification imo, especially considering what they did with the mold design and extra weapon.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:But knowing the design priorities, and - for the umpteenth time - the fact that very few molds with foldaway fists have had the luxury of cover panels for them (even pre-austerity), should make the practice comprehensible - hopefully enough so to bear.
Here's something that will make those holes look better though: They'll be a looooooooot smaller in person than in the renders. I'm pretty darn sure that ER/Netflix Soundwave is not 9 1/2" tall.

So I opened my Soundblaster last night to check out the figure in-hand and up close.
--so let's all note, I have this mold... Clearly those gaps didn't keep me from getting it.
I can still think those gaps are really annoying. And they're still plenty large and noticeable, even on this small of a figure. The alt mode is weak imo, so to make it more cohesive, fine, add landing gear to do something to try to help it. This is not to suggest I think this figure's alt mode should've been a tape recorder.
For as much assuming as you've done, I'll throw out this assumption.
No 6-10 yr. old kid, nor adult would've been crushed about not having landing gear for the alt mode. Being a spaceship, it's not like a helicopter missing a tail rotor. People are still buying the seekers with no landing gear for the jet mode. More on them later.
I'm not saying people don't appreciate it. I'm sure some would've pointed it out if it didn't have landing gear. But to say those same people would claim the figure is now trash without it? First I'd ask, "Did you buy this figure solely for the alt mode? If so, sorry, man. Extra pieces for landing gear would've been cool, but hopefully you like the overall design of the ship enough. At least the bot mode is solid and complete, so there's that."

Agreed that the forearm spaces are so large because of his semi-extended finger on the left hand.
What's interesting, is you've clearly complained about that, however there have to be people (like me) that appreciate that Hastak did some extra molding to make that possible. It literally adds to this figure's main gimmick, and yet isn't a completely extended finger, so has a good balance of subtlety.
This feature adds to the playability; yet because you don't like it, it's "an issue"... Weird.
Also, now that I've looked at this mold up-close, my opinions have only been more confirmed.

Not only was it extra plastic for those landing gear pieces, it's extra plastic to have them attached-- such as the parts molded to the back of the figure. You telling me those pieces make the alt mode what it is (otherwise it's not a good enough cybertronian spaceship), or truly add that much to the play factor (4 simple steps of transformation) again, just doesn't justify this to me. So we can agree to disagree.
It has also sounded like you don't think covers would be possible... A flat, rectangular piece of plastic hinged to the bottom inside corner of the forearm is of course possible. The landing gear piece sits away from the arm further than a panel would, and has required molding that then includes a vertical pin.
This molding ends up being over 1/4" from the forearm itself (yes, I measured it)... I can promise, a flat, hinged panel could've been thinner and wouldn't have used more plastic.
And since the panel would only meet the outside edge of the forearm, assuming the fist completely fits inside the space (which it does), then fist size doesn't matter.
A cover panel would've required a horizontal pin. So yeah, that hinge would've stuck out a little at that bottom inside corner of the forearm. But to say that would look worse than what it does now, or hinder precious playability is a a big stretch imo.
In fact, take the landing gear pieces and the molding needed to attach the landing gear off the figure, and there's a chance you get to keep your "hammer handle rifle thing".

Sure this is a line full of weapon gimmicks... But interestingly enough, even if the figure mold itself used a lot of plastic, extra weapons sure aren't coming into play for 6 fairly major characters called the seekers... Seems someone didn't want to compromise much with the figure enough to throw in anything like a hammer handle rifle. Did the Siege seeker versions come with an extra weapon? I don't have them but didn't think so... So then roughly 8 figures aren't coming with extra weapons? *Shelf-warmer Alert!!!! Surely this lack of playability makes these figures garbage. I mean, I thought everything looked pretty good. But damn, extra weapons... Where are the extra weapons?!!?? Where is the landing gear? How can someone play with a jet that can't ever land properly?!!?!
Either way, the ER seekers show that going against trends, present or past, is possible.
This was part of my whole point... Whereas you feel changes for the better can't be made because of what's happened in the past, I'm saying screw that.
And in the grand scheme, what I'm addressing really isn't crazy...
It's not like I initially said, "This figure should've had forearm cover panels, wrist swivels, finger articulation, an ab crunch joint, double-jointed knees, a Slugfest, an Overkill, and a G1 Megatron alt mode pistol. But since it doesn't, it's garbage!"

And wait, wasn't it you that claimed (even half-seriously) that ER Soundwave should've just be given a new mold? With the Seige version already in existence, you think that's more realistic & less ridiculous than requesting forearm panels on the original mold just because it would omit landing gear???
Especially considering they knew ER/Netflix Soundwave was happening from the start... What will the landing gear on the arms be for now? Oh yeah, additional important weapons for playability, right?

All of this points to the bottom line-- we disagree, and that's okay to me.

Sabrblade wrote:Either way, looks like Netflix Soundwave might have red eyes after all.

So this is the first non-render look at this wave, notable differences from the renders are:
-The previously mentioned red eyes on Soundwave
-Prime only has one Autobadge and does have the stripes on the arms, looks to have more muted colors to the regular release, still has blue eyes and hands, can't really tell if the battle damage the render has is there or not or what color his thighs are because Elita's stupid camping equipment is in the way
-Impactor's pea soup legs
-Red Alert does in fact have the same head and the same colored arms as the original retail version, so his only difference is battle damage
-Bee has a yellow nose?
-Wheeljack, like a few of the other Netflix guys that is point, isn't actually white plastic, but is grey plastic with varying levels of white paint to aid the battle damaged/smoky white effect

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Tuned Agent wrote:Am I the only one who's disappointed that Netflix Impactor doesn't use the IDW headsculpt?

Not terribly surprised, he used the retail release head in the trailer he showed up in. I would have preferred the IDW head though

Yeah, I was expecting the retail head too. Just a bit disappointing. But hey, the rest of his deco actually looks pretty awesome.