Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Sowndwave76]

I'd also love to see Devastator done in this scale so that he's not the odd man out as a "Titans Class" sized figure.

Same here. I never understood what the problem was with this. It's not difficult. All they had to do was shrink the dimensions of the mold, and press 6 deluxe-size figures instead of 6 voyager-sized ones. The figures themselves are fairly simple, Hasbro wouldn't have had to sacrifice accuracy or functionality to downsize them. And even with 6 deluxe members, Devastator would be bigger (but not by much) than the others.

I'm on the fence with this issue.
Part of me feels Devastator most definitely deserves to be a huge figure, even if he isn't in scale with the others.
Then I also wonder if Hasbro could've added elbow joints if the figures were scaled-down...
Even with 6 figures instead of 5, they'd be saving a little on less plastic, etc.
Dev's wrists and hands are probably a wash with CW hand & feet parts...

I don't know... Probably would be cool to have a set that's relatively in-scale with the rest.
But, what we got is pretty dang awesome.
Even though I'm keeping mine combined, the individual bots are incredible.
I'm saying this about the Hasbro version sans some elbow joints!
Yeah, there are a couple things I wish could be better,
but overall I'm extremely happy with this set.
Think about the "Classics" Devastator. And no offense to anyone who likes that set.
But comparing it to this CW release... That's kind of a joke.

Next time we get Constructicons, I bet it will be a smaller set.
"Next time" meaning 6-8 years from now... You know, a few years after we get Abominus and Piranacon!

[Rodimus Prime]

No, never cared for Classics Devy. And I'm not saying Titan Devy is bad, he's not. Especially with the PC-06 Prowlastator add-on, it's awesome. But I don't see why he couldn't have been also deluxe-sized. I understand Hasbro did the Titan Class for the collectors, but I think deluxe-sized would have sold just as well in stores, the pieces would have been more affordable.

[Sowndwave76]

No, never cared for Classics Devy. And I'm not saying Titan Devy is bad, he's not. Especially with the PC-06 Prowlastator add-on, it's awesome. But I don't see why he couldn't have been also deluxe-sized. I understand Hasbro did the Titan Class for the collectors, but I think deluxe-sized would have sold just as well in stores, the pieces would have been more affordable.

Yeah, the add-on sets I have make the set even sweeter... Not completely necessary, but does take it up a notch.
Deluxe-sized figures were of course possible, but again, I can't really complain about what we got.
Me personally, I wouldn't enjoy this set more if it was in-scale with the other combiners.
Even once I get to display these guys, I think it's going to look just as cool.
And yeah, I'm a bit bias because he's my favorite. I'm sure that plays into this a bit.

In terms of price, without the add-on sets, I spent $130 (before shipping)...
I have to wonder what the cost would've been for 6 deluxe-sized figures, and presumably still a slightly larger figure overall than the others. Probably bigger/more packaging as well.
Compared to the $100 price tag of the others, I don't see how a smaller Devastator would've been any cheaper than $120 anyway.

Fingers crossed for these two things:

1. We get an awesome Omega Supreme that's Titan class that kinda helps balance-out Dev's size for those who are concerned about scale.
2. We get both Abominus and Piranacon sooner than later (I'm betting at deluxe limb-figure size), that uses the EXACT same combining system to increase the scramble-bility of all of these other sets. Also keeping in-scale with all of these CW/UW sets.

[ThunderThruster]

There would have been outrage if a 6 deluxe devastator was sold at 120. Consider that at even 15.99, 6 individual deluxe's come to 95.94, so 100 like the other boxsets would have been about right

[Kurona]

I have absolutely no doubt the other combiners would be one Voyager + four deluxes and maybe a legend. Combiner Wars 2 looks like a stark possibility and I'm expecting Predaking and Abominus from it up front.
Something I'm indirectly excited about though is that they have to fit some autobots and repaints in there and they've done all three G1 Autobot combiners outside of some obscure japan-exclusive guys. And what easier repaint would there be than Razorclaw into Leo Prime? Leo Prime combiner

[Sowndwave76]

There would have been outrage if a 6 deluxe devastator was sold at 120. Consider that at even 15.99, 6 individual deluxe's come to 95.94, so 100 like the other boxsets would have been about right

But that's my point... 5 figures, although one's a voyager is $100.
Hasbro's going to make their money, so asking around $120 for 6 figures, that's not outrageous.
And if that would've been THE option, as a set, without selling the figures individually, everyone would've bought it, whether they complained or not.

[Sowndwave76]

I have absolutely no doubt the other combiners would be one Voyager + four deluxes and maybe a legend. Combiner Wars 2 looks like a stark possibility and I'm expecting Predaking and Abominus from it up front.
Something I'm indirectly excited about though is that they have to fit some autobots and repaints in there and they've done all three G1 Autobot combiners outside of some obscure japan-exclusive guys. And what easier repaint would there be than Razorclaw into Leo Prime? Leo Prime combiner

Agreed... As much as I thought maybe Predaking would've been Titan class, I don't think that will work with a 5 member team. I don't think Razorclaw being a leader-class figure would work.

And yeah, we all know there will be re-paints. Which makes me think they could do some out-of-left-field Beast Wars combiner with Maximal characters somehow. Which maybe doesn't make logistical sense for us, but--
It enables Hasbro to get their $$$ out of molds.
More figures that can combine with our current/past releases should help increase sales.
It may help justify releasing "beastformers"; these may not be the best, most accurate representations, but Hasbro can say, "We wanted to finally make some of these characters, and at the same time, we were looking into the future...bs.....bs.......bs...".
And just like Groove's alt mode isn't in scale with his teammates', I guarantee the same thing will happen with limb figure alt modes for animals or "beasts".
And we'll deal with it!

I just hate that any of this is definitely on hold for at least a couple years...
I have to start telling myself that maybe something from the Last Knight line will be good.

[ZeroWolf]

I would be down for more combiner wars stuff and two new animal bot/maximal combiners but you know who else I would like to see? Monstructor.

As for deluxe devy, he does have prominence for being the first combiner ever in tf fiction nay toy line ever. You can't blame hasbro for wanting to make it big.

[Sowndwave76]

I would be down for more combiner wars stuff and two new animal bot/maximal combiners but you know who else I would like to see? Monstructor.

I'm all for a Monstructor as well, and it would fit into the "Beastformer" line perfectly.
The alt modes would definitely need an updating, but I think that would be really cool.
Not to mention, it would be more molds to potentially work with.
I would think they'd need to take one of the 2 torso figures and scale it down to Legends class, but if that's what has to happen to get this guy, I'd be okay with that.

edit: Also, I don't know how Hasbro could pull-off the different colored upper legs in combined form assuming they use the current combining system.
But if that didn't happen, I wouldn't mind too much.

[Kurona]

Talking of Legends class downscaling; if a Piranacon/God Neptune/Poseidon were to happen, I can see Nautilator becoming a legends-class gun - the whole thing with those guys is that there were 5 limb-bots instead of four, and in addition to Beast, Robot, Arm and Leg modes they each had a fifth Targetmaster gun mode. Nautilator was the one most used as a gun though.

[ThunderThruster]

There would have been outrage if a 6 deluxe devastator was sold at 120. Consider that at even 15.99, 6 individual deluxe's come to 95.94, so 100 like the other boxsets would have been about right

But that's my point... 5 figures, although one's a voyager is $100.
Hasbro's going to make their money, so asking around $120 for 6 figures, that's not outrageous.
And if that would've been THE option, as a set, without selling the figures individually, everyone would've bought it, whether they complained or not.

But they're all 6 figures as they all have a legends figure included that forms ethier armour or a weapon:
4 deluxes (15.99), 1 Voyager (24.99) & 1 Legend (10.00), which equates to 99.95.
so yeah, 120 for 6 deluxes is outragous

[Sowndwave76]

Talking of Legends class downscaling; if a Piranacon/God Neptune/Poseidon were to happen, I can see Nautilator becoming a legends-class gun - the whole thing with those guys is that there were 5 limb-bots instead of four, and in addition to Beast, Robot, Arm and Leg modes they each had a fifth Targetmaster gun mode. Nautilator was the one most used as a gun though.

I think that could totally work and is a great solution for 6 member teams needing to be "condensed" into the standard 5 figure set-up.
That could be a major part of that combiner line, tbh.
Although it wouldn't work for all of them, like Predaking and Abominus,
the easy substitute would be to make legitimate guns for those combined bots, and if there's enough $$ left in the budget, legit guns for the individual bots.

[Kurona]

Yeah, six deluxes - assuming 16.99 - would come to...
...
102. Which would likely be rounded down to 99.99

[Sowndwave76]

There would have been outrage if a 6 deluxe devastator was sold at 120. Consider that at even 15.99, 6 individual deluxe's come to 95.94, so 100 like the other boxsets would have been about right

But that's my point... 5 figures, although one's a voyager is $100.
Hasbro's going to make their money, so asking around $120 for 6 figures, that's not outrageous.
And if that would've been THE option, as a set, without selling the figures individually, everyone would've bought it, whether they complained or not.

But they're all 6 figures as they all have a legends figure included that forms ethier armour or a weapon:
4 deluxes (15.99), 1 Voyager (24.99) & 1 Legend (10.00), which equates to 99.95.
so yeah, 120 for 6 deluxes is outragous

Look, I see your numbers. I get the math.
Although hypothetical, we're talking 6 Deluxe combining figures...
So there's a bit extra in the combining system itself.
Not to mention, the arms would need extra pieces for the form-arms. Neither Scavenger nor Bonecrusher would look very good stretched-out to make a full arm like the others we have. Not to mention, that wouldn't look at all right. There's also the chestplate piece that is only for this set.

Because of differences in transforming the individual bots, it would be more difficult to re-tool these figures for other characters. Especially Hook and Longhaul.
I'm betting the cost of those two figures' three modes each is > one voyager.
On top of the headsculpts that really only work for these specific 6 characters. The only thing I can think of is Bonecrusher being re-tooled as Scavenger. Even then, there are substantial differences. Other than the legs and feet, that may not even work.
I'm confident that Hasbro would want to do this right.
With what we have as proof that they weren't worried about using these figure molds for other characters, I don't doubt this would be the case even with a smaller version.

Between what's required to make this set logistical possible AND accurate, and simply because Hasbro could, we'll just disagree.

People are paying $135+ for 5 figure combiner sets. UW Defensor and Grand Galv were around $150.
$120 for a 6 figure Devastator... Maybe it is just me. But I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.
Especially if that was the ONLY option.

[ThunderThruster]

Wasn't CW Devi 150? which would be the total cost of 6 individual voyagers.
Using this as basis, and that this still includes the extra forearms and chest-plate, it again stands to reason that 100 would be the cost for a 6 deluxe set, including forearms and chest-plate.

As for 150 for UW boxset, they're always goinging to cost more as they're premium imports from Takara, and aren't a viable factor in debate about a release form Hasbro.

[Sowndwave76]

Wasn't CW Devi 150? which would be the total cost of 6 individual voyagers.
Using this as basis, and that this still includes the extra forearms and chest-plate, it again stands to reason that 100 would be the cost for a 6 deluxe set, including forearms and chest-plate.

As for 150 for UW boxset, they're always goinging to cost more as they're premium imports from Takara, and aren't a viable factor in debate about a release form Hasbro.

My point is that if a deluxe-class figure Devastator was the only option for this set.

6 figures; no re-paints/re-tools within the set itself. Molds are most likely exclusive to this set overall in the entire line.
A crucial part of the combining system must be specifically designed for this set.
Multiple parts are exclusive to this set.
If done right, this doesn't come with Superion's gun, but again something exclusive.

So it's fine that a G2 Combiner is $100, but a Devastator with everything mentioned above at $120 is "outrageous"???

I brought up UW sets because if people are willing to spend $35 MORE than CW sets just for different paint apps and one new headsculpt (obv not including UW Comp), and that's not considered outrageous,
why would $20 more for a legitimate Devastator be outrageous??

Speaking to what could be considered "outrageous" in terms of cost, bringing UW sets into this context is completely viable.
That actually adds to my point--
new paint apps, a couple new headsculpts, and some clear plastic... That's worth over $50 more than a CW combiner. Even with a few of the "new characters", which are still re-paints with slight re-tooling at best.
But $20 more for everything I've listed for Devastator... That's OUTRAGEOUS!!

I'm not saying this is what I think is ideal, or what I would want.
Again, I understand the break-down of a set in terms of individual figures.
But we're not talking about a G2 Defensor... We're not talking about figure molds that are being used 2-3+ times. Or the standard hands/feet of these sets.
And on top of all of this, if you really think Hasbro wouldn't take this as an opportunity to make some extra $$...
Just wait until Legends class figures are $10 each.

[Sowndwave76]

Yeah, six deluxes - assuming 16.99 - would come to...
...
102. Which would likely be rounded down to 99.99

Well if the figures were going to be re-used 2-4 times, sure.
And rounding DOWN???


Is this why my 13 cents worth of iced tea at restaurants is $1.19 and not $4.79?
Companies round down and not up???
Not trying to be an ass. Just making a point.

Reg. deluxes are $17... Is it really that crazy that Hasbro could ask $20 per figure (and everything else) in a set like this??

[ThunderThruster]

Wasn't CW Devi 150? which would be the total cost of 6 individual voyagers.
Using this as basis, and that this still includes the extra forearms and chest-plate, it again stands to reason that 100 would be the cost for a 6 deluxe set, including forearms and chest-plate.

As for 150 for UW boxset, they're always goinging to cost more as they're premium imports from Takara, and aren't a viable factor in debate about a release form Hasbro.

My point is that if a deluxe-class figure Devastator was the only option for this set.

6 figures; no re-paints/re-tools within the set itself. Molds are most likely exclusive to this set overall in the entire line.
A crucial part of the combining system must be specifically designed for this set.
Multiple parts are exclusive to this set.
If done right, this doesn't come with Superion's gun, but again something exclusive.

So it's fine that a G2 Combiner is $100, but a Devastator with everything mentioned above at $120 is "outrageous"???

I'm not saying this is what I think is ideal, or what I would want.
Again, I understand the break-down of a set in terms of individual figures.
But we're not talking about a G2 Defensor... We're not talking about figure molds that are being used 2-3+ times. Or the standard hands/feet of these sets.
And on top of all of this, if you really think Hasbro wouldn't take this as an opportunity to make some extra $$...

Not really addressing it. I've pointed out that Devi was 150. It's 6 voyagers. Individually 6 voyagers come to....gosh darn it 150 (24.99each). It has the extra parts for forearms and chestplate. It hasn't been repainted into an alternate version or other characters. That's a 1 time use. So for you to say that they wouldn't do it, at cost for a one of is bull.

Just wait until Legends class figures are $10 each.

[/quote]

Legends class figures are already £10.00 in the UK

[Sowndwave76]

Not really addressing it. I've pointed out that Devi was 150. It's 6 voyagers. Individually 6 voyagers come to....gosh darn it 150 (24.99each). It has the extra parts for forearms and chestplate. It hasn't been repainted into an alternate version or other characters. That's a 1 time use. So for you to say that they wouldn't do it, at cost for a one of is bull.

First off, these figures are "voyager" in size, but to say they're each worth $24.99 is just wrong. And the additional parts for Devs don't improve them.
No CW figure is top-notch. But the Constructicons are not the same as the other voyagers such as Cyclonus.
--I'm not saying all other voyagers are automatically better than the Constructicons. In terms of appearance, Hook and Scrapper are two of my favorites of the whole line--
As much as I like the set, I know individually they're not true voyager class quality. That's a dead horse.

So you're indirectly adding to my point...
No way is this set truly worth $150. But that's what it was. I mis-spoke earlier, I bought mine for $140 on early preorder, but it was $152 total. People now are paying closer to $160 total.
I wouldn't expect otherwise, and I'm basically saying the same for the hypothetical price point of a deluxe-sized Devs.

Here's what I can't get past in this conversation:
The thought that Hasbro shouldn't and/or wouldn't want any more than $100 for their only true, G1-esque updated Devastator, and everything that's involved with it (new molds, at least a slightly new combining transformation, standard paint apps & articulation, decent plastic quality, etc... Just a well-done set),
even though a G2 set of ALL repainted figures AND parts is also, gosh darn it, $100...
????
Hasbro wants their money, and then some. And then a lot some.

I don't blame WJ for getting G2 Menasor for $65... 4 deluxes @ $10, a voyager for $20, and the legends for $5 (roughly)... That's all these are really worth.
Even if you love G2 and would pay $265 per set. Preferences and biases aside, the actual monetary value is nowhere close to $100. They're ALL freaking re-paints!
That's what's crazy. That's what's outrageous.

Earlier I was being sarcastic; Legends class are $10 everywhere. I live in the midwest where costs are average to cheap. I regret buying Buzzsaw for $10.29 (before tax), and at that price it was only a little easier buying Shockwave.

I truly hope I'd be wrong about this, albeit hypothetical... Not hating on Hasbro, but they've given me no reason to think a set, especially THE updated Devastator, would be priced very reasonably. My almost $11 Buzzsaw seems to almost be laughing at me as a reminder.

[Ultra Markus]

very subtle tweak never noticed an issue with mine

[Sabrblade]

I'd also love to see Devastator done in this scale so that he's not the odd man out as a "Titans Class" sized figure.

Same here. I never understood what the problem was with this. It's not difficult. All they had to do was shrink the dimensions of the mold, and press 6 deluxe-size figures instead of 6 voyager-sized ones. The figures themselves are fairly simple, Hasbro wouldn't have had to sacrifice accuracy or functionality to downsize them. And even with 6 deluxe members, Devastator would be bigger (but not by much) than the others.

It wasn't so much of a "problem" with "doing a combiner made of six Deluxes" with Devastator, as it was more of a case of Hasbro looking over what they could do for the next Titan class figure after Metroplex, deciding that they wanted to do a Titan class Combiner to go along with and do something really super special for the Combiner Wars theme of that year, and chose Devastator both because he was the first Combiner (so picking him for the choice would be a great way to honor both Devastator and the Combiner concept that he pioneered) and because he always seemed the most imposing and most massive of the better-known G1 Combiners, with his having six members instead of five also making him even more special. They thought this would all be impressive and cool more than anything, wanting to wow us with it, rather than the reason being any kind of hindrance that prevented Devastator from being smaller.

[ZeroWolf]

Soundwave76 your logic is nearly impeccable but for one small detail that you said yourself. Hasbro want money. This doesn't just mean they want people to buy more but they want their profit margins to increase, and for that they hedge their bets while decreasing their costs a such as they can get away with. Your hypothetical deluxe devy would still be lacking in key areas as paint and plastic quality, just like the titan class version.

Also something else to consider, the price people pay for devy isn't the price the supplier bought it from Hasbro, that's just the recommended mark up so that the retailer get to make a profit as well. This is capitalism after all.

Finally, if a deluxe constructicon team happens, it will be done on Hasbro terms to make them extremely profitable, which could be something you haven't planned on.

[ThunderThruster]

Not really addressing it. I've pointed out that Devi was 150. It's 6 voyagers. Individually 6 voyagers come to....gosh darn it 150 (24.99each). It has the extra parts for forearms and chestplate. It hasn't been repainted into an alternate version or other characters. That's a 1 time use. So for you to say that they wouldn't do it, at cost for a one of is bull.

First off, these figures are "voyager" in size, but to say they're each worth $24.99 is just wrong. And the additional parts for Devs don't improve them.

And size is, generally, how all figures are classified. Regardless of their quality, our views on such and in comparison to their piers. So they ARE voyagers.

No CW figure is top-notch. But the Constructicons are not the same as the other voyagers such as Cyclonus.
--I'm not saying all other voyagers are automatically better than the Constructicons. In terms of appearance, Hook and Scrapper are two of my favorites of the whole line--
As much as I like the set, I know individually they're not true voyager class quality. That's a dead horse.

About the point we have some agreement on. Personally I think they're an upscaled design, I've even seen comments elsewhere that others agree in a greater magnitude, as they felt these were nothing more than an upscaled Cyber-commander class design.

As you're not swaying me, nor apparently am I you, we'd be best to just disagree on this matter.

[DeathReviews]

With the onslaught ratchet tweak - does that affect the gestalt in any way? Bruticus, like Defensor, has a tendency to lean forward unless you ratchet the legs backwards one notch, or counterbalance him by rotating the arms backwards. Neither option is ideal...

[King Kuuga]

As far as Devastator goes, his components are voyager sized but they defy easy classification. Devastator was designed as a set of six to all be sold in one package, not like the other combiners who were specifically made to fit the pricing requirements of their size class for individual sale. It's not really fair to compare his components with figures like Silverbolt and Onslaught, or even deluxes, because that's not how they were made.