The Energon Pub

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Still better than the constant car retools

[Sowndwave76]

Playing catch-up here, so first off,
WJ, those prices you posted a while back are truly insane.
If I had that option, I would buy some of the Autobot limbs, and an Optimus.
That takes me back to the Generations and RtS lines... Which, by the way, back in those days, ToysRUs did carry both lines at once, because I specifically remember mixing between the two when they had their buy 2 get 1 free sales.

I personally feel the Universe molds of the Autobot car characters are the best...
Especially if one wants those without the want/need to combine.
Both Universe Sideswipe and Sunstreaker molds were totally on point imo...
The one thing CW has going for it are those headsculpts. Most are outstanding.
But especially if you're wanting the Datsun bros, Universe is the way to go.
RtS Jazz was also very good; the door-speakers gimmick is so cool!

In terms of being sick of CW re-paints... I'm assuming people who are posting about this are those who have bought almost every figure in the line?
If not, then why would it be an issue? Don't get me wrong, I see both sides of it, and I can sympathize for those who are worn-out with these figures.
But since I don't have any Autobots outside of the Protectobots and Aerialbots, I simply see it as more options for people.
Is it officially just a re-deco when a figure has a totally new headsculpt but the rest has been used previously?

Me personally, I'm not sick of the CW or UW lines... It's more that I need a breather from spending $$$!!

[Braker]

great job hasbro once again you fail to ship a sought after figure to mass retail and instead send it to a discount store no one has in their area, i really really hate hasbro.

Come on man, dont you know Hasbro has nothing to do with this? This is all on the retailer end. These came to North America in abundance a few months ago, as proof of this toy being found elsewhere in very large quantities.



However, the retailers had a lot of older stock they probably over ordered they wanted to clear first. And now that titans return is near, Toysrus and others dont want the older line and either chose not to buy more from Hasbro or to sell their excess stock to market 6 stores. This happens often and is rarely the fault of the supplier.

Serious? I spent $35 on that disappointment:(

Sorry if I laugh at your pain, but taht is a funny statement, tha I can agree with.

I-Is that Ultra Magnus? I thought he was a myth!

[King Kuuga]

Is it officially just a re-deco when a figure has a totally new headsculpt but the rest has been used previously?

No, that is a retool. They have changed the tooling of the figure since its first release. Whether it was planned from the beginning or not, whether it is a minor tweak to add a tab or adjust the shape of a bumper, or it completely changes the sculpted appearance of the entire toy, it is a retool. It is only JUST a redeco if the mold is entirely unchanged but released in a new deco.

[Decepticon Stryker]

Is it officially just a re-deco when a figure has a totally new headsculpt but the rest has been used previously?

No, that is a retool. They have changed the tooling of the figure since its first release. Whether it was planned from the beginning or not, whether it is a minor tweak to add a tab or adjust the shape of a bumper, or it completely changes the sculpted appearance of the entire toy, it is a retool. It is only JUST a redeco if the mold is entirely unchanged but released in a new deco.

Basically, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Starscream are all redecos of each other while Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet are all retools of each other.

[william-james88]

Is it officially just a re-deco when a figure has a totally new headsculpt but the rest has been used previously?

No, that is a retool. They have changed the tooling of the figure since its first release. Whether it was planned from the beginning or not, whether it is a minor tweak to add a tab or adjust the shape of a bumper, or it completely changes the sculpted appearance of the entire toy, it is a retool. It is only JUST a redeco if the mold is entirely unchanged but released in a new deco.

Basically, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Starscream are all redecos of each other while Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet are all retools of each other.

But its not just the heads with those 3, its the wings too.

I always divided it between 3 things:

Straight redeco (3 main seekers)
Redeco with new head (most of the club stuff)
Retool, which means the mold was tweaked

With a new head, there is no tweak to the actual mold of the toy since they just make a new mold for the head. Hence why I personally preffer to set it apart.

[Sabrblade]

Is it officially just a re-deco when a figure has a totally new headsculpt but the rest has been used previously?

No, that is a retool. They have changed the tooling of the figure since its first release. Whether it was planned from the beginning or not, whether it is a minor tweak to add a tab or adjust the shape of a bumper, or it completely changes the sculpted appearance of the entire toy, it is a retool. It is only JUST a redeco if the mold is entirely unchanged but released in a new deco.

Basically, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Starscream are all redecos of each other while Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet are all retools of each other.

But its not just the heads with those 3, its the wings too.

I always divided it between 3 things:

Straight redeco (3 main seekers)
Redeco with new head (most of the club stuff)
Retool, which means the mold was tweaked

With a new head, there is no tweak to the actual mold of the toy since they just make a new mold for the head. Hence why I personally preffer to set it apart.

But the head is part of the mold for non-Headmaster toys.

[william-james88]

But the head is part of the mold for non-Headmaster toys.

I know, but the new head is often made from scratch no? Or is it always a change to the existing head tooling?

[Sowndwave76]

I think that there's a fine-line for this specific topic.
Not that it really matters.
I always thought a figure with a new headsculpt was considered a re-tool, but I see what WJ is saying as well.
A brand-new headsculpt that isn't a change to the original one, doesn't technically seem like a re-tool.
But if "deco" only refers to paint apps (and maybe stickers), then a new head could be called slight re-tooling.

Again, not that it really matters.
Just curious if there was some actual standard way this situation is "labeled".

[william-james88]

I think that there's a fine-line for this specific topic.
Not that it really matters.
I always thought a figure with a new headsculpt was considered a re-tool, but I see what WJ is saying as well.
A brand-new headsculpt that isn't a change to the original one, doesn't technically seem like a re-tool.
But if "deco" only refers to paint apps (and maybe stickers), then a new head could be called slight re-tooling.

Again, not that it really matters.
Just curious if there was some actual standard way this situation is "labeled".

Yes there is:

The general fandom's conception of "retools" differs from the definition used by Hasbro and TakaraTomy's designers. To them, only actual physical alterations of an existing tooling qualify as a "retool". There are, however, other methods used to achieve the same results (i.e. a new toy based on an existing sculpt yet physically different from the original release), which are also commonly referred to as "retools" by fans, lacking knowledge of the specific process employed in each individual case.

If the change is not made to the existing tooling of that part, then it is not a retool. So a new head made from scratch is not technically a retool, like this example below:



Hence why I keep it a seperate category. It is the safest way to approach the topic with our lack of knowledge on the actual molds.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

I'd say the whole retool debate deserves its own thread, no? Discussing personal definitions of "redeco", "retool" and whatnot.

[o.supreme]

So... I am trying to put together a comprehensive list of all BC and TFCC figures so far known that use the Combiner Wars Limb/Torso format (whether they are specifically designed to be limbs or not) Please let me know if I am missing any:


Botcon 2016: Dawn of Predacus Set (5), Terrorsaur, Tigatron, Unit-3
TFCC 4.0: Thunder Mayhem Attack Squad (5) & Impactor
TFCC 5.0: Coming in 2017 -The rest of "Wreckage" (4 more members)

I did not count the Ratchet Build-a-figure since I'll be getting one with UW Sky Reign (I know probably not the same...but not different enough to me to make a separate entry)

[william-james88]

I'd say the whole retool debate deserves its own thread, no? Discussing personal definitions of "redeco", "retool" and whatnot.

There is already that conversation happening elsehwere but it died. I have a list that will be posted eventually and we can carry on talking about it there when it comes up. The reason it keeps coming up here is because Combiner Wars was all about making the most fom a few molds. We are still talking about this within the context of this line so its fair game. I dont want people to stop talking.

[Cobotron]

The "re" convo is within the relm of this topic. Carry on!

[william-james88]

For some reason, I didnt notice the asymetric detail on Swindle's legs until I got Hound (right now). I just noticed that he has a steering wheel molded in. Man, if that's indicative of his scale, this guy is HUGE.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

So... I am trying to put together a comprehensive list of all BC and TFCC figures so far known that use the Combiner Wars Limb/Torso format (whether they are specifically designed to be limbs or not) Please let me know if I am missing any:


Botcon 2016: Dawn of Predacus Set (5), Terrorsaur, Tigatron, Unit-3
TFCC 4.0: Thunder Mayhem Attack Squad (5) & Impactor
TFCC 5.0: Coming in 2017 -The rest of "Wreckage" (4 more members)

I did not count the Ratchet Build-a-figure since I'll be getting one with UW Sky Reign (I know probably not the same...but not different enough to me to make a separate entry)

My lists have:

BotCon 2016
Ramhorn
Cicadacon
Sea Clamp
Ravage
Tarantulas

Terrorsaur
Tigatron
Unit-3

TFSS 4.0
Needlenose
Grabuge ("Ruckus")
Spinister
Windsweeper
Bludgeon
Impactor
7th Mystery Deluxe!

TFS 5.0
Toxitron
Counterpunch
Fractyl

Impactor is a member of the Wreckage team, so that leaves only one member unknown (rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl). Alternatively, you can use Offroad and Alpha Bravo, as they're canon (temporary) members.

[Decepticon Stryker]

For some reason, I didnt notice the asymetric detail on Swindle's legs until I got Hound (right now). I just noticed that he has a steering wheel molded in. Man, if that's indicative of his scale, this guy is HUGE.

*looks at own Swindle figure*
Wow. That's the size of a Dump truck! Now compare him to Fort Max.

[Noideaforaname]

I guess they're trying to circumvent "why are jets the size of cars" by giving the cars tiny doors and steering wheels so they're actually in scale with jets. I dunno, scale is already rather broken, but now they're mashing it into a pulp!

[Kurona]

I guess they're trying to circumvent "why are jets the size of cars" by giving the cars tiny doors and steering wheels so they're actually in scale with jets. I dunno, scale is already rather broken, but now they're mashing it into a pulp!

This just makes me think how big they'd be in comparison to humans in this case. I mean, they already tower above them of course; but this'd make them reach skyscraper levels! And then we consider these guys are from the line that combines...

[Decepticon Stryker]

I guess they're trying to circumvent "why are jets the size of cars" by giving the cars tiny doors and steering wheels so they're actually in scale with jets. I dunno, scale is already rather broken, but now they're mashing it into a pulp!

This just makes me think how big they'd be in comparison to humans in this case. I mean, they already tower above them of course; but this'd make them reach skyscraper levels! And then we consider these guys are from the line that combines...

Wait.. so how big are the Headmasters?

[Autobot N]

(rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl)

Since when? All I had heard is that it might be Xaaron from Rook.

[Sabrblade]

(rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl)

Since when? All I had heard is that it might be Xaaron from Rook.

Since two days ago.
Also, Xaaron from Rook? That would be awful. The Rook mold looks nothing like Xaaron's Megatronish body.

[Autobot N]

(rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl)

Since when? All I had heard is that it might be Xaaron from Rook.

Since two days ago.

Also, Xaaron from Rook? That would be awful. The Rook mold looks nothing like Xaaron's Megatronish body.

Bluestreak does seem pretty cool, but it'll be near impossible to have a full Datsun trio with him being club exclusive.

[Sabrblade]

(rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl)

Since when? All I had heard is that it might be Xaaron from Rook.

Since two days ago.
Also, Xaaron from Rook? That would be awful. The Rook mold looks nothing like Xaaron's Megatronish body.

Bluestreak does seem pretty cool, but it'll be near impossible to have a full Datsun trio with him being club exclusive.

It'd be more impossible if the Club weren't to make him, what with Hasbro and Takara showing no signs of making him.

[Autobot N]

(rumor has it it's Bluestreak from Prowl)

Since when? All I had heard is that it might be Xaaron from Rook.

Since two days ago.

[spoiler]Also, Xaaron from Rook? That would be awful. The Rook mold looks nothing like Xaaron's Megatronish body.

[spoiler]Bluestreak does seem pretty cool, but it'll be near impossible to have a full Datsun trio with him being club exclusive.

[spoiler]It'd be more impossible if the Club weren't to make him, what with Hasbro and Takara showing no signs of making him.

[spoiler]That much is true.