The Energon Pub

[Grahf_]

Power Rangers/Super Sentai have also done the "megazord with an alternate vehicle configuration" before:
1991's Jetman had two, the Icarus Haken


and when combined with the Bird Garuda the Hyper Haken



While 2000's Timeranger/2001's PR Time Force had TimeJet Gamma/Time Force Megazord Jet Mode


However, all of these were alternate combinations of their components, they had to be disassembled and reassembled into their robot forms, they couldn't just transform. The previously mentioned Victory Mars/Omega Megazord from GoGo V/PR Lightspeed Rescue is the only multi-component megazord that can switch between combined modes without disassembly, and its non-robotic form is basically just the robot crabwalking. I think that a combined robot made of smaller transformable robots being able to itself transform into a reasonable semblance of a vehicle form without disassembly would either require a large mass to work with or a ton of cheating.

Yeah, it's certainly no easy task; but I really liked the Omega Megazord's crab-walk mode, especially with the arms that extend from the front legs, really lends precedence to the purpose of the extra mode

Safari Ga-Oh almost didn't need to cheat and only really did because ToQ-Oh wasn't originally intended to turn into a lion to begin with. If it had the level of articulation that a CW combiner does then it wouldn't have needed the extra piece to "transform". Then again, Safari Ga-Oh's lion mode really isn't any different than the Omega Megazord's crawler mode in overall design and functionality. The MMPR Dino Megazord's tank mode would be the best overall though. If it were designed to, the arms could have switched between the fists, feet and cannons without partsforming the cannons. It also could've flipped the chest onto the back if they really wanted it to as there's more than enough room in the shoulders to accommodate the necessary arms to do the flipping.

I don't think I would like any Transformers combiners doing things like that though. I feel that it would be asking way too much of the individual figures to really do much more than what they're already doing in the standard combiner as it is. It would be really cool if they could work it into the budget without sacrificing anything but since that will never be the case, I don't even want it attempted.

Oh and to speak on the whole Tidal Wave thing, he's not a combiner. He and Magmatron are both more akin to the duocons (I guess it would be "triocons") than anything else. It's just one robot that can split into three separate pieces which could then recombine into something else. Granted that Tidalwave doesn't need to split to achieve the combined alt mode though. They're just Duocons on steroids.

[King Kuuga]

Safari Ga-Oh almost didn't need to cheat and only really did because ToQ-Oh wasn't originally intended to turn into a lion to begin with. If it had the level of articulation that a CW combiner does then it wouldn't have needed the extra piece to "transform". Then again, Safari Ga-Oh's lion mode really isn't any different than the Omega Megazord's crawler mode in overall design and functionality. The MMPR Dino Megazord's tank mode would be the best overall though. If it were designed to, the arms could have switched between the fists, feet and cannons without partsforming the cannons. It also could've flipped the chest onto the back if they really wanted it to as there's more than enough room in the shoulders to accommodate the necessary arms to do the flipping.

Actually it's very lucky for me that they have some parts removal because I totally forgot about them. They're in between the two categories, they have some minor shuffling between their "alternate" and robot modes, but it's not a complete reconfiguration like the jets. Good catch!

Also, since we're on the topic of toku and very few threads reach 555 pages, I'm going to take a moment to leave this here:

I don't think I would like any Transformers combiners doing things like that though. I feel that it would be asking way too much of the individual figures to really do much more than what they're already doing in the standard combiner as it is. It would be really cool if they could work it into the budget without sacrificing anything but since that will never be the case, I don't even want it attempted.

Agreed, honestly. It's only feasible at a larger scale than is financially viable for toys.

Oh and to speak on the whole Tidal Wave thing, he's not a combiner. He and Magmatron are both more akin to the duocons (I guess it would be "triocons") than anything else. It's just one robot that can split into three separate pieces which could then recombine into something else. Granted that Tidalwave doesn't need to split to achieve the combined alt mode though. They're just Duocons on steroids.

THANK YOU.

[Ironhidensh]

I was going to make a horribly negative remark, but you know what? Forget it, I'm happy you people are happy with your repaints, even if I don't understand why. Congrats.

While I don't deny the obscene lengths to which these molds are being used; I can't really agree with your statement, as it is a little off-base.

The only 'repaint' on the technobots is nosecone, strictly speaking, everyone else is an extreme remold of an existing figure. As I assume hope Scattershot is getting additional remolding - though the art seems to refute that - he cannot be thrown into the category of 'repaint' either. Strafe has clearly received a large amount of remolding, Groove is entirely new - for most of us - and remolded quite a bit to boot, and the same probably goes for lightspeed; not to mention the new feet and hands he is supposed to be receiving, I just cannot agree that this set a 'bunch of repaints', a bunch of 're-uses' I can get behind, but not 'repaints'

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

[King Kuuga]

I was going to make a horribly negative remark, but you know what? Forget it, I'm happy you people are happy with your repaints, even if I don't understand why. Congrats.

While I don't deny the obscene lengths to which these molds are being used; I can't really agree with your statement, as it is a little off-base.

The only 'repaint' on the technobots is nosecone, strictly speaking, everyone else is an extreme remold of an existing figure. As I assume hope Scattershot is getting additional remolding - though the art seems to refute that - he cannot be thrown into the category of 'repaint' either. Strafe has clearly received a large amount of remolding, Groove is entirely new - for most of us - and remolded quite a bit to boot, and the same probably goes for lightspeed; not to mention the new feet and hands he is supposed to be receiving, I just cannot agree that this set a 'bunch of repaints', a bunch of 're-uses' I can get behind, but not 'repaints'

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

It most certainly does not. A redeco makes no alterations to the mold whatsoever. The only things that changes between different redecos of a mold are the plastics injected and the paint map. A retool actually uses a different tooling of the mold, as the name implies. It may be as subtle as fixing a problematic peg, it may just be a new head, or it may be as extensive as turning Thrilling 30 Springer into Sandstorm. Regardless, it requires changing one or more of the mold forms before another product run.

[Ironhidensh]

I was going to make a horribly negative remark, but you know what? Forget it, I'm happy you people are happy with your repaints, even if I don't understand why. Congrats.

While I don't deny the obscene lengths to which these molds are being used; I can't really agree with your statement, as it is a little off-base.

The only 'repaint' on the technobots is nosecone, strictly speaking, everyone else is an extreme remold of an existing figure. As I assume hope Scattershot is getting additional remolding - though the art seems to refute that - he cannot be thrown into the category of 'repaint' either. Strafe has clearly received a large amount of remolding, Groove is entirely new - for most of us - and remolded quite a bit to boot, and the same probably goes for lightspeed; not to mention the new feet and hands he is supposed to be receiving, I just cannot agree that this set a 'bunch of repaints', a bunch of 're-uses' I can get behind, but not 'repaints'

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

It most certainly does not. A redeco makes no alterations to the mold whatsoever. The only things that changes between different redecos of a mold are the plastics injected and the paint map. A retool actually uses a different tooling of the mold, as the name implies. It may be as subtle as fixing a problematic peg, it may just be a new head, or it may be as extensive as turning Thrilling 30 Springer into Sandstorm. Regardless, it requires changing one or more of the mold forms before another product run.

It's still the same thing. We never got a generations Sandstorm. We got Springer masquerading as Sandstorm. It's the same damn thing. If you are okay with it, that's cool, but don't tell me they are different figures.

[Stuartmaximus]

Power Rangers/Super Sentai have also done the "megazord with an alternate vehicle configuration" before:
1991's Jetman had two, the Icarus Haken


and when combined with the Bird Garuda the Hyper Haken



While 2000's Timeranger/2001's PR Time Force had TimeJet Gamma/Time Force Megazord Jet Mode


However, all of these were alternate combinations of their components, they had to be disassembled and reassembled into their robot forms, they couldn't just transform. The previously mentioned Victory Mars/Omega Megazord from GoGo V/PR Lightspeed Rescue is the only multi-component megazord that can switch between combined modes without disassembly, and its non-robotic form is basically just the robot crabwalking. I think that a combined robot made of smaller transformable robots being able to itself transform into a reasonable semblance of a vehicle form without disassembly would either require a large mass to work with or a ton of cheating.

Yeah, it's certainly no easy task; but I really liked the Omega Megazord's crab-walk mode, especially with the arms that extend from the front legs, really lends precedence to the purpose of the extra mode

Safari Ga-Oh almost didn't need to cheat and only really did because ToQ-Oh wasn't originally intended to turn into a lion to begin with. If it had the level of articulation that a CW combiner does then it wouldn't have needed the extra piece to "transform". Then again, Safari Ga-Oh's lion mode really isn't any different than the Omega Megazord's crawler mode in overall design and functionality. The MMPR Dino Megazord's tank mode would be the best overall though. If it were designed to, the arms could have switched between the fists, feet and cannons without partsforming the cannons. It also could've flipped the chest onto the back if they really wanted it to as there's more than enough room in the shoulders to accommodate the necessary arms to do the flipping.

I don't think I would like any Transformers combiners doing things like that though. I feel that it would be asking way too much of the individual figures to really do much more than what they're already doing in the standard combiner as it is. It would be really cool if they could work it into the budget without sacrificing anything but since that will never be the case, I don't even want it attempted.

Oh and to speak on the whole Tidal Wave thing, he's not a combiner. He and Magmatron are both more akin to the duocons (I guess it would be "triocons") than anything else. It's just one robot that can split into three separate pieces which could then recombine into something else. Granted that Tidalwave doesn't need to split to achieve the combined alt mode though. They're just Duocons on steroids.

a partsformer! Tidal Wave is

[Stuartmaximus]

mind you.....when the Technobots come out.....you can then also make Cybertron Super Scamble & Comperian!

but because there's to be no beast Combiners.....we'll not also see the likes of

Abomenaticus

Scramble 7

&

Destron Super Scramble


oh....& since we're now getting a Liokaiser! & after Victorion & Sky Reign come out......that only leaves Thunder Mayhem surely?

[ZeroWolf]

Calling tidal wave a parts former is a bit harsh, especially since tidal wave is such an awesome toy. A triplecon is a much nicer term.

As for the argument about repaints and retools, I personally class them as being completely different from another. If you see them as the same then I think you are doing the designers a great disservice.

[King Kuuga]

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

It most certainly does not. A redeco makes no alterations to the mold whatsoever. The only things that changes between different redecos of a mold are the plastics injected and the paint map. A retool actually uses a different tooling of the mold, as the name implies. It may be as subtle as fixing a problematic peg, it may just be a new head, or it may be as extensive as turning Thrilling 30 Springer into Sandstorm. Regardless, it requires changing one or more of the mold forms before another product run.

It's still the same thing. We never got a generations Sandstorm. We got Springer masquerading as Sandstorm. It's the same damn thing. If you are okay with it, that's cool, but don't tell me they are different figures.

I understand skepticism but when it alters the engineering of the toy that much, no, it's not the same thing.

[william-james88]

Calling tidal wave a parts former is a bit harsh, especially since tidal wave is such an awesome toy. A triplecon is a much nicer term.

And a tripleform triplecon since unlike the duocons, the 3 seperate alt modes combine/transform into a new altmode.

It's an insanely impressive toy. I remember the first time I realize I didnt have to detach anything for the combined vehicle form to turn into a robot, I couldn't believe it.

[steals_your_goats]

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

It most certainly does not. A redeco makes no alterations to the mold whatsoever. The only things that changes between different redecos of a mold are the plastics injected and the paint map. A retool actually uses a different tooling of the mold, as the name implies. It may be as subtle as fixing a problematic peg, it may just be a new head, or it may be as extensive as turning Thrilling 30 Springer into Sandstorm. Regardless, it requires changing one or more of the mold forms before another product run.

It's still the same thing. We never got a generations Sandstorm. We got Springer masquerading as Sandstorm. It's the same damn thing. If you are okay with it, that's cool, but don't tell me they are different figures.

Damn I knew you were close minded but I didn't know you were THIS bad. I feel sorry for you. If you can look at Springer and Sandstorm and say "yeah they're the same thing" then you must be blind.

[Stuartmaximus]

one is a heavy retool of the other(Springer & Sandstorm) from the same mold.......basically! otherwise how do you explain that both have identical transfomations.....with some parts?

[william-james88]

one is a heavy retool of the other(Springer & Sandstorm) from the same mold.......basically! otherwise how do you explain that both have identical transfomations.....with some parts?

What I find most fascinating is that they dont have the same transformation. That totally confused me (refreshingly so) when I was going from bot to alt mode. I am referring to the arm section.

[King Kuuga]

one is a heavy retool of the other(Springer & Sandstorm) from the same mold.......basically! otherwise how do you explain that both have identical transfomations.....with some parts?

But they DON'T have the same transformation, which is why I brought them up. Sandstorm's tire propellers change his conversion in each mode. Sure, they're based on the same core, but they're so radically different that it's an insult to dismiss them as the same. Some retools, sure, I get it. They changed the head and nothing else, or they added some spikes but didn't alter the transformation. You could make an argument that those are fundamentally the same, and that's what this was originally about: the reuse of the molds in Combiner Wars, but not all retools are fundamentally the same.

[-Kanrabat-]

one is a heavy retool of the other(Springer & Sandstorm) from the same mold.......basically! otherwise how do you explain that both have identical transfomations.....with some parts?

But they DON'T have the same transformation, which is why I brought them up. Sandstorm's tire propellers change his conversion in each mode. Sure, they're based on the same core, but they're so radically different that it's an insult to dismiss them as the same. Some retools, sure, I get it. They changed the head and nothing else, or they added some spikes but didn't alter the transformation. You could make an argument that those are fundamentally the same, and that's what this was originally about: the reuse of the molds in Combiner Wars, but not all retools are fundamentally the same.

The transformation is basically the same, but Gen Sandstorm and Springer are SO different, they are both worth owning. I prefer Sandstorm, but I don't regret my Springer.

Anyone who don't own any of these should just get both. They are still cheap and easy to get.

[Ironhidensh]

Repaint or remold, it means the same thing.

It most certainly does not. A redeco makes no alterations to the mold whatsoever. The only things that changes between different redecos of a mold are the plastics injected and the paint map. A retool actually uses a different tooling of the mold, as the name implies. It may be as subtle as fixing a problematic peg, it may just be a new head, or it may be as extensive as turning Thrilling 30 Springer into Sandstorm. Regardless, it requires changing one or more of the mold forms before another product run.

It's still the same thing. We never got a generations Sandstorm. We got Springer masquerading as Sandstorm. It's the same damn thing. If you are okay with it, that's cool, but don't tell me they are different figures.

Damn I knew you were close minded but I didn't know you were THIS bad. I feel sorry for you. If you can look at Springer and Sandstorm and say "yeah they're the same thing" then you must be blind.

Edit: nevermind, it's not worth it. Enjoy your repaints and be happy. I'm going back to the rocking chair on my deck.

[Mr Skram]

Sometimes a repaint serves the character well, sometimes not so much. Same for retools. To dismiss them all because they share a mold or engineering can lead to missing out on great figures. Then again, just buy what makes you happy as a collector. No skin off my back if anyone skips something I consider rad.

[fenrir72]

Retool yes but repaint? Far from a simple repaint.

[Stuartmaximus]

one is a heavy retool of the other(Springer & Sandstorm) from the same mold.......basically! otherwise how do you explain that both have identical transfomations.....with some parts?

What I find most fascinating is that they dont have the same transformation. That totally confused me (refreshingly so) when I was going from bot to alt mode. I am referring to the arm section.

no....i said SOME PARTS have the same transformations! or at least similar! but not all parts.

[Insurgent]

I find it quite funny how everyone is leaping to get him to accept Springer and Sandstorm are completely different. The evidence is presented, he's dismissed it as from his point of view, they are the same toy. And on some levels, he's right. Sandstorm is Springer with extra bits added on and a different weapon. But take off those VTOL bits and the tail, he is pretty much the same figure. To think they are completely different is daft. Why not just let him view Sandstorm as he wants to? And we'll view Sandstorm how we want to?


And before anyone jumps on me, I do consider retools different to repaints. And Sandstorm and Springer are both fantastic figures.


Now, can we get back to Technobots and Breastforce?

To be honest, Computron does have Superion's head, except he has a mouth. At least, that's what I always thought. Oh, and his antenna are a little different. What's the other differences (other than colours)?

[Stuartmaximus]

so wait a minute! what Wave is Liokaiser then? coz we've still Computron & Sky Reign(if we're still getting Sky Reign?) to come.

It isnt in a wave. This seems to be a boxset. Computron is confirmed as a boxset. There is no CW wave after Sky Reign.

there could be! if they decide to do Thunder Mayhem(although no doubt you'll be right & this'll turn out to be a box set too!).

[Sabrblade]

so wait a minute! what Wave is Liokaiser then? coz we've still Computron & Sky Reign(if we're still getting Sky Reign?) to come.

It isnt in a wave. This seems to be a boxset. Computron is confirmed as a boxset. There is no CW wave after Sky Reign.

there could be! if they decide to do Thunder Mayhem.

Thunder Mayhem is a Fun Pub toy part of the Transformers: Timelines toyline, not Hasbro's Generations line.

[Autobot N]

So wait a minute! What wave is Liokaiser then? 'Coz we've still Computron & Sky Reign(if we're still getting Sky Reign?) to come.

It isn't in a wave. This seems to be a boxset. Computron is confirmed as a boxset. There is no CW wave after Sky Reign.

There could be! if they decide to do Thunder Mayhem.

Thunder Mayhem will not be made a regular release, as he is a club exclusive. And as WJ pointed out to me, it was directly stated by Hasbro that in 2016 there will be 2 CW (counting Bruticus) waves and 2 TR waves. Thus, it is likely that Liokaiser is a boxset, same as Computron.

[Agamemnon]

I like cool looking robots, no matter if they are repaints...

[Stuartmaximus]

if that's the case with these box sets.....then i'm highly dubious as to whether TRU in the UK will be getting those in?((YES i know they've been spotted in TRU's of other countries, but that's no guarantee that the UK stores will ALSO be getting those in!(& certainly highly doubtful that the TRU i frequent in Glasgow Scotland will be!.....case in point....Devastator still hasn't made it into that particular store yet! or any stores that stock transformers within Glasgow for that matter! & doubt they ever will!) & YES i know there's always the option of ordering those online from the likes of Kapow Toys ect)).

+ the UK market hadn't exactly came through with every figure, wave & release.....into physical stores(TRU, Smyths Toys, The Entertainer ect).