The Energon Pub

[Sowndwave76]

Actually...
1. That's not what they're based on. That's what UW is based on. Hasbro's priority is basing them on the original toys - and beyond that, they might incorporate the show; but equally they might incorporate the Marvel Comics, and even more likely than that recently the IDW comics. In particular, First Aid is very close to his IDW design, especially in his head sculpt.
2. Yes... but it's the first time updated Stunticons have actually been purposefully made as an initial purpose, and to combine. The other times were basically finding any autobot car mold and painting them into any random Stunticon. It's practically impossible to make a Mirage toy without turning it into Drag Strip at one point - which makes sense. They have to redeco a toy at one point to make up for production costs, Decepticons are the easiest way to set an Autobot apart, and Stunticons are the easiest way to turn an Autobot car into a Decepticon.

Look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you liking cartoon accuracy or anything; I've stated that a ton of times. I'm just saying I don't like the UW colours for Drag Strip and I much prefer the CW design. That's all. Let's just be thankful that Takara and Hasbro do very different takes on things that pleases different audiences and be happy about it, yeah?

Of course I'm thankful that there are options that these 2 companies provide. Having options in general is usually a good thing.
For the most part, however, the show is based pretty closely to the toys, so your first point is a stretch.
Not to mention, while lots of stuff has been added to the realm of TF's in many aspects, for the G1 characters, their designs are from the original toys and shows.
Sure, any figure with any mold or colors can be released and named Soundwave... That doesn't change or negate the original.
I completely understand some people being tired of G1. But it's been a really really long time coming for updated figures of these characters.
Wanting one release of these looking relatively show accurate is in my opinion more legit than not. As I've said in a previous post (outside of this conversation), who knows how long it'll be before any of these combiner teams are released again.

I'm not quite getting your second point... You're basically saying what I said in my second point. I already stated this is the first legit updating to a lot of these figures (and very few of us on the boards need a reminder as to why molds are re-used). Which is why I'm in favor of relatively accurate paint apps. Especially because the figure itself has already been plenty updated and changed. In fact, all of them have.
In the case of Drag Strip, both the alt mode and the head sculpt are not G1 accurate.
And that doesn't bother me. But those two changes alone are pretty major.
So wanting to see relatively accurate colors isn't something crazy. And I know you didn't say it was.
But who are you to say an original design is bad??
Especially when you consider the time and technology of when it was originally created.
No, I'm not saying that any of the G1 characters have mind-blowing designs by today's standards.
And yes, like anything, any catalog of work, there is a spectrum of quality.
I don't usually use this phrase, but, it is what it is.
I know I'm having this conversation with you specifically, but in general, I just don't get people stating their opinions as fact.
That on top of knocking the originals...
It's like me saying, "You're being an idiot about this", instead of "I get where you're coming from but just don't agree".

Again, not trying to argue, just didn't think you're completely getting what I'm saying.

[william-james88]

Also, I would like to add (in general, not to anyone in specific) that it isnt necessarily true that Hasbro bases things off the original toys. I think its usually a happy coincidence. For instance their Afterburner is more orange than Takara's but it still has some red and a green hood and i the end looks nothing like the original toy. But because it has some orange that means its based on the toy? No. Even Hasbro said what it was based on, which is sadly nothing:

When asked at BotCon 2016 about Takara's more show-accurate Computron, Hasbro basically stated that they care far less about accuracy to older cartoons than Takara does, with Hasbro wanting to change things more and liking their own less-accurate Computron better than Takara's.

Hasbro didnt say "we are trying to replicate the toy deco", they just said they wanted to make things newer and different. You will see that a lot when you read Hasbro interview about this line. They always say they want it to feel fresh and new and not a retread of G1. If Hasbro was really going for "toy accurate deco" then you tell me which of these two is Hasbro's.

Here is G1 slingshot:


Transformers G1 1986 Slingshot (Sling) Gallery

Now here are Hasbro and Takara's.



Which is the one that is more accurate to the toy deco? Hint hint, Not the Hasbro one.

Myth Busted

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Yeah, thats as good as it gets. But you know, many toys do feel unfinished and I wish it was all QC issues. Like RID Jazz. Man it really looks like Hasbro's missed some paint along that assembly line:

[img]

Hasbro's is on the left, the one on the right is Takara.

When I first saw this pic below, I swear I thought this was an unfinished product and they were just giving you an early leaked look.

[img]

Shouldn't this be discussed in the RiD thread?

Also, I would like to add (in general, not to anyone in specific) that it isnt necessarily true that Hasbro bases things off the original toys. I think its usually a happy coincidence. For instance their Afterburner is more orange than Takara's but it still has some red and a green hood and i the end looks nothing like the original toy. But because it has some orange that means its based on the toy? No. Even Hasbro said what it was based on, which is sadly nothing:

When asked at BotCon 2016 about Takara's more show-accurate Computron, Hasbro basically stated that they care far less about accuracy to older cartoons than Takara does, with Hasbro wanting to change things more and liking their own less-accurate Computron better than Takara's.

Hasbro didnt say "we are trying to replicate the toy deco", they just said they wanted to make things newer and different. You will see that a lot when you read Hasbro interview about this line. They always say they want it to feel fresh and new and not a retread of G1. If Hasbro was really going for "toy accurate deco" then you tell me which of these two is Hasbro's.

Here is G1 slingshot:


Transformers G1 1986 Slingshot (Sling) Gallery

Now here are Hasbro and Takara's.



Which is the one that is more accurate to the toy deco? Hint hint, Not the Hasbro one.

Myth Busted

Actually the tail wing on Hasbro's is more accurate to the g1 toy as far as paint.

[Kurona]

But who are you to say an original design is bad??

Well... someone with an opinion? Just like anyone on the planet?
That's the thing I'm not getting. I don't have a problem with there being a show-accurate version out there. All I'm doing is expressing my opinion that I think it's a bad design, and that's it. I mean hell, technology and such at the time doesn't really count because there's a thousand other colours they could've chosen and I'm fine with the other stunticons. I just think Drag Strips that aren't the G1 colour scheme are better than the G1 colour scheme :/

[Kurona]

Also, I would like to add (in general, not to anyone in specific) that it isnt necessarily true that Hasbro bases things off the original toys. I think its usually a happy coincidence. For instance their Afterburner is more orange than Takara's but it still has some red and a green hood and i the end looks nothing like the original toy. But because it has some orange that means its based on the toy? No. Even Hasbro said what it was based on, which is sadly nothing:

When asked at BotCon 2016 about Takara's more show-accurate Computron, Hasbro basically stated that they care far less about accuracy to older cartoons than Takara does, with Hasbro wanting to change things more and liking their own less-accurate Computron better than Takara's.

Hasbro didnt say "we are trying to replicate the toy deco", they just said they wanted to make things newer and different. You will see that a lot when you read Hasbro interview about this line. They always say they want it to feel fresh and new and not a retread of G1. If Hasbro was really going for "toy accurate deco" then you tell me which of these two is Hasbro's.

Here is G1 slingshot:


Transformers G1 1986 Slingshot (Sling) Gallery

Now here are Hasbro and Takara's.



Which is the one that is more accurate to the toy deco? Hint hint, Not the Hasbro one.

Myth Busted

Yeah that's fair enough; it's less a hard-and-fast rule and more, like... I dunno, just something Hasbro seems to do often, especially with Combiner Wars and Titans Return. They tend to go for the toy first over the cartoon - though there are exceptions like Galvatron - as is evident especially with the likes of Blurr and Bruticus.

[william-james88]

Actually the tail wing on Hasbro's is more accurate to the g1 toy as far as paint.

Does that one debatable detail make Hasbro's more toy accurate than Takara's as a whole? Lets be serious here.

[Kurona]

Actually the tail wing on Hasbro's is more accurate to the g1 toy as far as paint.

Does that one debatable detail make Hasbro's more toy accurate than Takara's as a whole? Lets be serious here.

To be fair, there's very little difference in detail otherwise on this mode. A black line, the nosecone being slightly larger, the cockpit having it's lines in a different colour, and...
... an autobot symbol on the nosecone...
The differences are much more apparent in Robot Mode, with Takara's in particular having the face being full orange (which kinda blurrs out the detail; I much prefer the blue specs on Hasbro's)

[william-james88]

Yeah that's fair enough; it's less a hard-and-fast rule and more, like... I dunno, just something Hasbro seems to do often, especially with Combiner Wars and Titans Return. They tend to go for the toy first over the cartoon - though there are exceptions like Galvatron - as is evident especially with the likes of Blurr and Bruticus.

Yeah, I see that. But while Takara does tell us that they base themselves on the cartoon deco, hasbro never really came out and said that they instead go with the toy deco. Thats all fan speculation. And I get it, we do hope that their choice in deco stands for something. But with the case of the technobots they did say that they were trying to do something new, which lets me think taht this applies to other toys too (not all of course). I simply think that Hasbro does whatever they want to do and definitely tries to make the most of their coloured plastic. But anyways for titans return Blurr, they stated that those non headmaster toys represent versions in time when those characters were headmasters and we dont know what their deco is at that point in time. All we have to go on is the toy so they can do whatever they want, at least thats how they feel. They just dont want to have to adhere to something strict all the time be it toy accuracy or show accuracy. I really think that the toy accuracy is a happy coincidence. I can be wrong of course, but they never said anything specific.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Actually the tail wing on Hasbro's is more accurate to the g1 toy as far as paint.

Does that one debatable detail make Hasbro's more toy accurate than Takara's as a whole? Lets be serious here.

Still, both have good qualities. You're acting as if Hasbro's version is as bad as Hasbro's Blast-off or something!

Actually the tail wing on Hasbro's is more accurate to the g1 toy as far as paint.

Does that one debatable detail make Hasbro's more toy accurate than Takara's as a whole? Lets be serious here.

To be fair, there's very little difference in detail otherwise on this mode. A black line, the nosecone being slightly larger, the cockpit having it's lines in a different colour, and...
... an autobot symbol on the nosecone...
The differences are much more apparent in Robot Mode, with Takara's in particular having the face being full orange (which kinda blurrs out the detail; I much prefer the blue specs on Hasbro's)

Again, sometimes changes are good.

[-Kanrabat-]

Screw accuracy, Hasbro Blast-Off is the BEST THING EVER! Especially as a squadron for Cyclonus and as the four limbs for Galvatronus.

[Sowndwave76]

WJ88,

I totally see what you're saying, and it seems backed-up by the quote you referenced.
But when you look at almost all of the CW Autobot car characters, it seems pretty clear that they're using lots of older (if not original) design elements in terms of colors and head sculpts.
Really, this could be said for most of the CW releases.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Screw accuracy, Hasbro Blast-Off is the BEST THING EVER! Especially as a squadron for Cyclonus and as the four limbs for Galvatronus.

He looks great. However, he looks better as Cyclonus drones.

[-Kanrabat-]

Screw accuracy, Hasbro Blast-Off is the BEST THING EVER! Especially as a squadron for Cyclonus and as the four limbs for Galvatronus.

He looks great. However, he looks better as Cyclonus drones.

Indeed. For me, he's an original character à la AlphaBravo/Offroad/Rook, not a combaticon. And he's fantastic for it.

[william-james88]

WJ88,

I totally see what you're saying, and it seems backed-up by the quote you referenced.
But when you look at almost all of the CW Autobot car characters, it seems pretty clear that they're using lots of older (if not original) design elements in terms of colors and head sculpts.
Really, this could be said for most of the CW releases.

Yeah and you are perfectly right. Here is the quote from the Botcon transcripts that says exactly what you are saying. If anyone wonders, this is their answer to why their toys look different than Takara's (specifically Computron but its really an answer to all of it):

So, a lot of what you see here is an homage to the past, but as John and Eddie have talked about, a lot of what we’re doing too is an eye towards the future of bringing new fans in and kind of giving us a chance to tell a new story versus kinda being chained to only the old stories.

So yeah, its both. But also I know this may sound mean but its also a lazy cop out to say "we do whatever we want". The important thing is that int confirms that they dont feel the need to adhere to G1 and that is for the show accuracy or toy accuracy. Nothing is a real rule and if we, the fans, are not their primary market. I do want to say though that its doesnt mean we are Takara's main market either. But Takara's approach is different. While they also cater to kids they feel the need to respect the source material. So they are still presenting this to the same tounger audience but they feel the need to show them where it came from at the same time. Both companies feel this line is a chance to re-experience G1. For Habro that means that, like in G1, you have new and cool things because its true that back in G1 none of us knew these characters from something else, so there is an idea of novelty they want to maintain. With Takara it means recreating G1 as much as possible, so recreating the decos and such so that a new audience can see the same toys older fans once had but with improved articulation and the like.

Its 2 sides fo the same coin. However, Hasbro's care free attitude does seem like an easier way out.

Why is Computron's face the same as Superion (real question asked to Hasbro)

Their answer:

Some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces.

The way I read it is: So hey, we are doing new stuff, who says his face cant be the same now huh? Know why, cause its not all about G1!

Sure Hasbro sure

Does that mean Computron's face will look like Superion's in the comics? I dont know, I hope not.

[Sabrblade]

Does that mean Computron's face will look like Superion's in the comics? I dont know, I hope not.

At the very least, should it look like that in any forthcoming Hasbro-licensed fiction, I'd suspect the most likely candidate for said fiction to be Machinima's Combiner Wars cartoon.

[Kurona]

Thankfully I doubt that version of Computron (the head literally being the only thing I don't like about it) will be used in any contemporary fiction any time soon. Aligned and Bayformers don't use CHUG in the slightest and IDW's already done their Combiner segment. Plus I doubt they'll want to introduce any more combiners any time soon due to how unpopular the CW storyline was and how it introduced like, three new combiners while reviving three more. And then you've got Monstructor out there!
So unless TFCC really wants to use him...

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Screw accuracy, Hasbro Blast-Off is the BEST THING EVER! Especially as a squadron for Cyclonus and as the four limbs for Galvatronus.

He looks great. However, he looks better as Cyclonus drones.

Indeed. For me, he's an original character à la AlphaBravo/Offroad/Rook, not a combaticon. And he's fantastic for it.

Agreed.

[King Kuuga]

Personally, I never got caught up in it, for me Offroad is the Con equivalent of Alpha Bravo. Totally unnecessary and just a ploy by Hasbro to sell another toy by breaking up a traditional team. UGH.

Alpha Bravo and Offroad were attempts by Hasbro to diversify their combiners and diversify the selection of toys on shelves at one time, as well as allowing mold reuse. They elected to use Vortex in the Aerialbots and Ironhide in the Stunticons to this end, and as we saw, their eventual plan for Slingshot and Wildrider was just redecos with different heads. Looking at the G1 toys, clearly they made a decision that their alt modes were similar enough that it was more effective to not make separate molds for them in CW when they had a limited budget to work with. To that end, the choice to put AB and Offroad at retail instead of Quickslinger and Brake-Neck was apparently driven by a desire to have four different deluxe molds on each (non-boxed) combiner.

[Sabrblade]

Thankfully I doubt that version of Computron (the head literally being the only thing I don't like about it) will be used in any contemporary fiction any time soon. Aligned and Bayformers don't use CHUG in the slightest and IDW's already done their Combiner segment. Plus I doubt they'll want to introduce any more combiners any time soon due to how unpopular the CW storyline was and how it introduced like, three new combiners while reviving three more. And then you've got Monstructor out there!
So unless TFCC really wants to use him...

At the very least, should it look like that in any forthcoming Hasbro-licensed fiction, I'd suspect the most likely candidate for said fiction to be Machinima's Combiner Wars cartoon.

[Sowndwave76]

WJ88,

I totally see what you're saying, and it seems backed-up by the quote you referenced.
But when you look at almost all of the CW Autobot car characters, it seems pretty clear that they're using lots of older (if not original) design elements in terms of colors and head sculpts.
Really, this could be said for most of the CW releases.

Yeah and you are perfectly right. Here is the quote from the Botcon transcripts that says exactly what you are saying. If anyone wonders, this is their answer to why their toys look different than Takara's (specifically Computron but its really an answer to all of it):

So, a lot of what you see here is an homage to the past, but as John and Eddie have talked about, a lot of what we’re doing too is an eye towards the future of bringing new fans in and kind of giving us a chance to tell a new story versus kinda being chained to only the old stories.

So yeah, its both. But also I know this may sound mean but its also a lazy cop out to say "we do whatever we want". The important thing is that int confirms that they dont feel the need to adhere to G1 and that is for the show accuracy or toy accuracy. Nothing is a real rule and if we, the fans, are not their primary market. I do want to say though that its doesnt mean we are Takara's main market either. But Takara's approach is different. While they also cater to kids they feel the need to respect the source material. So they are still presenting this to the same tounger audience but they feel the need to show them where it came from at the same time. Both companies feel this line is a chance to re-experience G1. For Habro that means that, like in G1, you have new and cool things because its true that back in G1 none of us knew these characters from something else, so there is an idea of novelty they want to maintain. With Takara it means recreating G1 as much as possible, so recreating the decos and such so that a new audience can see the same toys older fans once had but with improved articulation and the like.

Its 2 sides fo the same coin. However, Hasbro's care free attitude does seem like an easier way out.

Why is Computron's face the same as Superion (real question asked to Hasbro)

Their answer:

Some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces.

The way I read it is: So hey, we are doing new stuff, who says his face cant be the same now huh? Know why, cause its not all about G1!

Sure Hasbro sure

Does that mean Computron's face will look like Superion's in the comics? I dont know, I hope not.

I don't think you're being mean at all when you say that...
Without at least a decent reason, it does come off as lazy to me as well.
Especially that last part about not changing the head/face for their Computron--
"Looking into the future", yet using another character's face/head... Hmmmm.
Doesn't scream forward thinking to me!

Here's what I kinda wish for (I know it's never going to happen):
Hasbro would make every effort to make G1 characters look truly G1 in terms of colors.
Updating molds should happen. And in some cases of CW, they've got it super close.
But no more half-assing and adding large random red-violet stripes on figures like Drag Strip.
Make the character look like he's supposed to.
At the same time, in the same line(s), release completely new, different, unknown characters.
Go crazy with the colors... Re-use molds, head sculpts, etc. But again, no half-assing. Just do it up, and give us new figures even if they aren't based on any sort of fiction or video game.
According to that quote in your post, that's supposedly a good portion of their thinking anyway.
And I agree 100%, it's not like they're catering to fans/collectors.

On the other side of the coin, I would love for TT to create one line, or portions of multiple lines, where they truly re-create G1 figures that truly resemble the show as closely as possible.
I know that gets tricky in terms of logistics for combiners. And yeah, that means no re-using molds.
And some would say, that's reality already-- the MP line. But I mean a line of deluxe/voyager scale figures. I'm sure they'd be more expensive, but I think they could pull if off and make it worth the price.

Who knows... I can still remember some boardmember sending me a private message going OFF about how stupid I was for speculating/hoping that Hasbro would someday release the other seekers that had only been available as Botcon exclusives...

[King Kuuga]

Why is Computron's face the same as Superion (real question asked to Hasbro)

Their answer:

Some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces.

Man, that is one hell of a cop-out answer. It's like they know they're being lazy and they don't want to just say "We didn't want to/didn't see the need/couldn't afford it" so they're dancing around the issue with a non-answer.

[Sabrblade]

Here's the full version of my transcription of the answer given by John Warden and Ben Montano when they were asked at BotCon about the Hasbro vs. Takara Computrons:

Q: What goes into the decision-making process of things like for the figures’ prime character still having a Superion head versus a few months later Takara comes out with a Generation 1-accurate Computron head?

John: That’s a good question. A complicated question.

Ben: Yeah, I don’t think it’s something we can get into the full details here, it’s something we definitely know and acknowledge for you guys it can be confusing, but it’s a decision we make on, a lot of it is timing-based, what we kinda wanna get on the market certain things and in our stories. And some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces. So, a lot of what you see here is an homage to the past, but as John and Eddie have talked about, a lot of what we’re doing too is an eye towards the future of bringing new fans in and kind of giving us a chance to tell a new story versus kinda being chained to only the old stories. Hopefully you guys all see that big part of the new Machinima Combiner Wars story is there’s a lot of story that’s untold, a lot of gray area, a lot of gaps in our continuity, and that’s part of what we see the opportunity to do with the toys. Like, let’s fill in some gaps, let’s do some cool things that kind of open up the freedom whether it’s a comic or animation just to introduce something new.

[King Kuuga]

"...full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing."

[william-james88]

Why is Computron's face the same as Superion (real question asked to Hasbro)

Their answer:

Some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces.

Man, that is one hell of a cop-out answer.

Sabreblade posted the full answer below. Its just more of the same. I thought the exerpt I mentionned summed it up well but reading the full thing is just more and more dancing around saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

By the end of reading all of it you forget that all they were answering was the simple question of "why is Takara's head different from yours".

I like using real quotations but I dont think I can stomach copy pasting that whole thing the next time someone asks on the board why Hasbro doesnt do what Takara does

[King Kuuga]

Why is Computron's face the same as Superion (real question asked to Hasbro)

Their answer:

Some of it may have to do with what we’re doing outside of toys and video games, you know, stuff that’s influencing and impacting how we approach our characters and our stories, so we often have an eye to the future that the things we introduce here we expect to see that kind of evolution of that character and that look in other spaces.

Man, that is one hell of a cop-out answer.

Sabreblade posted the full answer below. Its just more of the same. I thought the exerpt I mentionned summed it up well but reading the full thing is just more and more dancing around saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

By the end of reading all of it you forget that all they were answering was the simple question of "why is Takara's head different from yours".

I like using real quotations but I dont think I can stomach copy pasting that whole thing the next time someone asks on the board why Hasbro doesnt do what Takara does

Yeah I read that quote and that was why I posted this in response:

"...full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing."