Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Emerje]

And a vocal minority insisted this would never fund.

Hopefully we doe get a secret third tier like Deathsaurus got. Maybe repaint Mirage into Skid-Z? They've used that mold so many time surely it would be cost effective by now. Still feels unlikely though so maybe some mini figures of T-AI and Koji?

Emerje

[Sabrblade]

I wish we could say that "10,000 in 10 days" means there was an average of 1,000 per day, but it was more like 200-300 per day after the first reached about 4,800, plus a couple of significant bumps on Monday and Wednesday boosting it up. So we'll see if the first tier can be reached three days from now or not.

[Rodimus Prime]

I really hope this shows Hasbro just how much the fandom loves RiD/CR and we'll start seeing more representation in the main retail lines as well.

I highly doubt Spychangers will be included, they would have been announced as a tier if they were. But doesn't mean they can't be in Legacy United or whatever line comes after.

As for the next HasLab, I really hope Hasbro stays in the same vein and we get the bullet trains. Or if they don't want to, just put them as either the next Titan or sell them separately as leaders or commanders.

[-Kanrabat-]

And a vocal minority insisted this would never fund.

Emerje

I really wonder why they thought that? Even the Takara reissue that was sold for around DOUBLE the original retail price sold like hot cakes. Plus it's a motherfokking Optimus.

The day a Transformers HASLAB fail will be the day push something no one care about like the Reva Lightsaber. What would be the TF equivalent? ROTF Skids and Mudflap's blaster?

[Emerje]

And a vocal minority insisted this would never fund.

Emerje

I really wonder why they thought that? Even the Takara reissue that was sold for around DOUBLE the original retail price sold like hot cakes. Plus it's a motherfokking Optimus.

They were just bitter it wasn't Primus. I guarantee Primus wouldn't have sold this well this quickly.

Emerje

[Sabrblade]

The day a Transformers HASLAB fail will be the day push something no one care about like the Reva Lightsaber.

HasLab Unicron failed. The original backer window didn't get it funded. It required an unprecedented extension to get it made, because Hasbro couldn't afford to let Unicron fail. It was a gamble they lost, so they changed the rules to make it win.

[o.supreme]

Hasbro.has the advantage of owning GIJoe & having a competent partner in TT with Transformers. Since Marvel and Star Wars are Disney licenses, there obviously was some influence there on the last 2 failed Haslabs. Hasbro I think had to push back and finally make them understand it's classic stuff that sells , not modern, this the return to form and the successful results.

Any Haslab,if poorly chosen could fail. Even Transformers. Adventure play accessories would probably be a hard sell. Costumes etc. as long as they keep making actual Transformers that are complimentary to the main line, and aren't too expensive, it should work.

Unicron was unique in that it was only the 2nd Haslab ever, so they were still trying to figure things out. The black series Rancor is still puzzling. It came so close at the very end, even a 1 day extension would have allowed it to fund. It was almost like someone wanted it to fall. The others I get because the backers needed wasn't even close, but that Rancor was just an odd situation all around.

[Sabrblade]

As of this typing, the count is just 11 backers away from 11,000, in less than a day after being funded.

[-Kanrabat-]

The day a Transformers HASLAB fail will be the day push something no one care about like the Reva Lightsaber.

HasLab Unicron failed. The original backer window didn't get it funded. It required an unprecedented extension to get it made, because Hasbro couldn't afford to let Unicron fail. It was a gamble they lost, so they changed the rules to make it win.

Ah yeah. That did count. But unlike The Rancor, maybe the initial investment was too much.

And a vocal minority insisted this would never fund.

Emerje

I really wonder why they thought that? Even the Takara reissue that was sold for around DOUBLE the original retail price sold like hot cakes. Plus it's a motherfokking Optimus.

They were just bitter it wasn't Primus. I guarantee Primus wouldn't have sold this well this quickly.

Emerje

Given Unicron's history, I really doubt that a 600$ Primus would be funded.

Unicron at least had the advantage to have appeared in the 1986 Movie and Armada (Prime counts a bit too.) Primus is only a Cybertron one-shot. So if the "popular" Unicron had to be cheated into being funded, the less popular Primus could be a sureshot failure that couldn't be cheated.

[Sabrblade]

To be a little fair to Primus, he appeared in robot mode in the Cybertron cartoon for 10 episodes, whereas Unicron only appeared in robot mode in Armada for just 4 episodes. Same with his head only appearing in 4 episodes of the G1 cartoon, but that was only his head and not his full robot body. In Energon, he was in planet mode for most of that series, but his robot mode appearances kinda blurred together since, by that point, the show became so unmemorable. And Prime never depicted him with a full planetary robot mode, just avatars made of dirt and rock.

Counting the few minutes Unicron's robot mode appeared in TFTM, Primus has had more cartoon screentime in his planetary robot mode than Unicron had in both TFTM and Armada combined.

[-Kanrabat-]

To be a little fair to Primus, he appeared in robot mode in the Cybertron cartoon for 10 episodes, whereas Unicron only appeared in robot mode in Armada for just 4 episodes. Same with his head only appearing in 4 episodes of the G1 cartoon, but that was only his head and not his full robot body. In Energon, he was in planet mode for most of that series, but his robot mode appearances kinda blurred together since, by that point, the show became so unmemorable. And Prime never depicted him with a full planetary robot mode, just avatars made of dirt and rock.

Counting the few minutes Unicron's robot mode appeared in TFTM, Primus has had more cartoon screentime in his planetary robot mode than Unicron had in both TFTM and Armada combined.

Maybe Primus "beat" Unicron with minutes of on-screen appearance, but Unicron was the main threat for a movie and two huge seasons and a half of transformers shows. That leave a deeper mark. Then, his Armada toy were more produced and repainted than Primus by a large margin. Furthermore, Unicron got a lot of random figures after, transforming or not. That leave an impression that Primus could never achieve.

[Emerje]

Maybe Primus "beat" Unicron with minutes of on-screen appearance, but Unicron was the main threat for a movie and two huge seasons and a half of transformers shows. That leave a deeper mark. Then, his Armada toy were more produced and repainted than Primus by a large margin. Furthermore, Unicron got a lot of random figures after, transforming or not. That leave an impression that Primus could never achieve.

Not to mention Unicron had a 15 year lead as an icon over Primus. Sure, Primus appeared in the comics as a being and got a few mentions in the cartoon, but not very many people even remember that. Plus even after Primus did appear in the Cybertron cartoon, I think most people will agree that Unicron has the more visually outstanding design. The wings/rings, the horns, the maw in planet mode, the beard, the clawed fingers and feet, he's a very unique looking bot compared to generic looking robot that turns into a simple ball.

Unicron was unique in that it was only the 2nd Haslab ever, so they were still trying to figure things out. The black series Rancor is still puzzling. It came so close at the very end, even a 1 day extension would have allowed it to fund. It was almost like someone wanted it to fall. The others I get because the backers needed wasn't even close, but that Rancor was just an odd situation all around.

The Rancor was a victim of timing. For starters they were doing that one simultaneously with the G.I.Joe Skystriker campaign which made things really tough, there was a moment when it seemed like neither would fund. As it is the Skystriker is one of the few (or only?) campaigns that got funded and didn't get all of its stretch goals. The other problem with the Rancor is if they had waited a month they would have passed the episode of the Book of Boba Fett that features him riding a Rancor and would have given them some additional stretch goal options. It wouldn't have been screen accurate, but they could have included a saddle and maybe a Boba Fett figure. Shame the show wasn't very popular so I don't know if it would have really helped but it would have ridden the hype. And then there's that people seemed to really want it to be in 4" scale not 6". Hasbro got way too ambitious having stretch goals that were too many and too far apart (every 3,000), which people were complaining about being regular retail figures to begin with.

Emerje

[Gauntlet101010]

Are we really debating Unicron's importance to the franchise? He was the primary antagonist of the movie that changed everything for Transformers. He had numerous appearances in the comics in that form. He had cameos in Beast Wars and BW Neo (can't say how much; never watched that).

Primus, as a Transforming planet, is important in Cybertron. And Cybertron the planet is shown very differently throughout the franchise. But maybe they could find a way to make it work? I dunno.

I'm also unsure if it's fair to say Unicron would have failed. It was the first round of Haslab funding. I don't think store and international orders were calculated in there until the very end when it just skyrocketed after all the orders were tallied. But they sure didn't want to take that risk.

[noctorro]

Well here's a minority.

I just don't see a lot of improving on the original figure.
I understand the choice since it's a nice 2 pack.
But c'mon the original Optimus has good articulation and a good mode.
And the partsforming is still there.

You can also still get that Optimus and Magnus new unopened for an acceptable price online.
SO I understand the choice but also don't.

RID is just to modern to reissue in such a special way. It could've easily been a Legacy Commander/Leader and people would be just as happy.

I say reserve Haslab's for old Transformers or just reissue Fortress Maximuss again or something. Not update a leader that was already a good action figure.

Anyway my 2 cents, I would've rather seen the Euro Exclusives re-done or only the 2 leaders and modernized.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I can't say I'm surprised nor disappointed that once again people have thrown their money at HasLab, without thinking. Those self-same people should likely reflect. While never complaining again about prices rises in the other lines, as a knock on effect. Much like MP-44's insane success and the subsequent price rise of the whole MP line.
..You caused this.

[-Kanrabat-]

I can't say I'm surprised nor disappointed that once again people have thrown their money at HasLab, without thinking. Those self-same people should likely reflect. While never complaining again about prices rises in the other lines, as a knock on effect. Much like MP-44's insane success and the subsequent price rise of the whole MP line.
..You caused this.

Prices do increase because of inflation. There's nothing we can do about this. And if you still want quality and high parts count, there's a price to pay.

As for the MP line itself, the prices increased way less than the current Generations line. Any and all MP were pretty damn expensive from the get go. Add more intricate transformations and the price increase further. At least some MP remain "the same price" as the old ones like the Skids family, but they are a bit smaller than the Datsun and Lambo.

And let's face it. If people weren't buying, they'd just pull the plug from the line.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

There is a difference between price increase and price hike. The hike comes from Hasbro picking a random number out of the air IE MP-44 and the fanbase enabling them by throwing money at them. Which leads Hasbro to grow bolder with prices in the future. While selling people on the party line about more moving parts and detailed designs being the actual pricing factor. Which it isn't. Because retail price never even nears that of manufacture. The difference between the two is just gross profit.

[-Kanrabat-]

There is a difference between price increase and price hike. The hike comes from Hasbro picking a random number out of the air IE MP-44 and the fanbase enabling them by throwing money at them. Which leads Hasbro to grow bolder with prices in the future. While selling people on the party line about more moving parts and detailed designs being the actual pricing factor. Which it isn't. Because retail price never even nears that of manufacture. The difference between the two is just gross profit.

Congratulation, you have found out the goal of a business.

Now, if only corporations would just do that and STFU about any and all politics, we will be golden.
Meaning, voting with our wallet.

As for "price hikes" I can see some figures being "hiked" to no end, like the Reactivate toys. But MP could be any price they want because the market is only for the hardcore collector who have too much money. So, if you find something that is "grossly overpriced" for your tastes, just do not buy.
I skipped most Masterpieces for that reason. Plus, ironically, some Generations toys are BETTER than their MP counterpart. Like SS86 Hotrod and Siege Jetfire.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

As for "price hikes" I can see some figures being "hiked" to no end, like the Reactivate toys. But MP could be any price they want

Basically the definition of a price hike, in this instance. The prime example is the comparison from MP-44 to MP-49. Trying to justify the significant price drop between one and the other, as the cost of the "trailer". That was basically Hasbro pointing and laughing at those who paid the initial price tag for MP-44.

Red flags keep appearing EG HasLab Unicron, Omega Prime etc and some are just blind to the warnings. Fund it and fall for the hollow justifications from Hasbro marketing, over and over again. That's why I say I am neither surprised nor disappointed by news like this anymore. Hasbro knows how to fleece their willing fanbase.

[-Kanrabat-]

As for "price hikes" I can see some figures being "hiked" to no end, like the Reactivate toys. But MP could be any price they want

Basically the definition of a price hike, in this instance. The prime example is the comparison from MP-44 to MP-49. Trying to justify the significant price drop between one and the other, as the cost of the "trailer". That was basically Hasbro pointing and laughing at those who paid the initial price tag for MP-44.

Red flags keep appearing EG HasLab Unicron, Omega Prime etc and some are just blind to the warnings. Fund it and fall for the hollow justifications from Hasbro marketing, over and over again. That's why I say I am neither surprised nor disappointed by news like this anymore. Hasbro knows how to fleece their willing fanbase.

In the case of MP-49, I did buy it and it was still ludicrously expensive, but all you get is the ax and the gun compared to MP-44. The very elaborate trailer along a bucketload of accessories is missing. That's pretty much half the box. And if the tupperware that came with Earthrise Optimus is good enough to justify the leader price...

[AllNewSuperRobot]

It was still just a trailer. Now if were talking about Powermaster Prime, Car Robots Prime or any of the UT variants. That means something. Because the trailer is part of the figure.

There is a real discussion to be had about standardising pricing in collector lines. About honestly stating that pricing is indicative solely of the popularity of the character and not manufacture at all. Also how for the price point of HasLab, common faults attributed to cheaper retail-line figures. Such as balancing/posing issues when figures are standing on their own feet. Should not exist, nor be given a pass.

[-Kanrabat-]

It was still just a trailer. Now if were talking about Powermaster Prime, Car Robots Prime or any of the UT variants. That means something. Because the trailer is part of the figure.

There is a real discussion to be had about standardising pricing in collector lines. About honestly stating that pricing is indicative solely of the popularity of the character and not manufacture at all. Also how for the price point of HasLab, common faults attributed to cheaper retail-line figures. Such as balancing/posing issues when figures are standing on their own feet. Should not exist, nor be given a pass.

"Just a trailer" is what you judge. But compared to the emptiness that was the Earthrise trailer, who was effectively JUST a trailer, the MP-44 trailer was complete and had multiple fonctions and features, including Roller. Not counting the humain characters, extra weapons, and the Starscream "cosplay". The whole shebang was much more justifiable than the empty box that came with ER Optimus. The MP-44 price was 100% justified compared to ER "leader" Optimus, who was clearly "hiked".

If you do not want to pay for stuff that you don't want, well, you do you. But accusing "price hikes" is just coping.

As for Omega Prime, both Optimus and Magnus were 5000 JPY originally in 2005. Today, that would be 5600 JPY. That's not too bad for the base inflation.
Then, there's the 2 pack reissue of Omega Prime that was a whopping 30000 JPY. That's more than DOUBLE the price (almost triple!) it was supposed to be if the toys were just following normal inflation.
Now THAT'S a price hike. Maybe a limited production run justify that price?

Then there's the HASLAB version who will have a limited run, better engineering, and will be bigger than the original for the same price as the Takara reissue. THAT one can't be considered a "price hike" because there is no precedent. And if the precedent is the flawed Takara reissue of the original, the HASLAB will be overall cheaper ironically.

Now, whenever you judge if the thing is worth the money is up to you.
Personally, for me, that character is not worth the CAN400$+ it would cost me so I'm skipping it. But anyone who love the original would definitely be better off getting the HASLAB instead of hunting the old one on eBay or getting the Takara reissue.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

"Just a trailer" is what you judge.

No that's objective. It is just a trailer for the altmode. As per the ignored context from the other examples. It doesn't augment the base figure in any way.

But compared to the emptiness that was the Earthrise trailer, who was effectively JUST a trailer, the MP-44 trailer was complete and had multiple fonctions and features, including Roller. Not counting the humain characters, extra weapons, and the Starscream "cosplay". The whole shebang was much more justifiable than the empty box that came with ER Optimus. The MP-44 price was 100% justified compared to ER "leader" Optimus, who was clearly "hiked".

ER Prime was a retail-line release, after MP-44. So that's a redundant comparison. Between figures in different lines and considerably different budgets.

But accusing "price hikes" is just coping.

No, just objective assessment. As I said some are blind to these things and just shrug in acceptance. Much like touting the asinine "voting with your wallet", to improve things. If one person doesn't buy something out of principle and fifty do. There is zero impact made. A raindrop in the ocean.

As for Omega Prime, both Optimus and Magnus were 5000 JPY originally in 2005. Today, that would be 5600 JPY. That's not too bad for the base inflation.
Then, there's the 2 pack reissue of Omega Prime that was a whopping 30000 JPY. That's more than DOUBLE the price (almost triple!) it was supposed to be if the toys were just following normal inflation.
Now THAT'S a price hike. Maybe a limited production run justify that price?

Then there's the HASLAB version who will have a limited run, better engineering, and will be bigger than the original for the same price as the Takara reissue. THAT one can't be considered a "price hike" because there is no precedent. And if the precedent is the flawed Takara reissue of the original, the HASLAB will be overall cheaper ironically.

False equivalency. Plus, a point wasn't made on the price of Omega Prime. But the speed that the crowdfunding was achieved. The Marvel Legends collectors briefly looked like they were getting wise to the HasLab shenanigans with the cancelled Ghost Rider and the brief pause in Giant-Man's crowdfunding. But alas, they still fall for it. To a lesser degree though.

[Emerje]

Well here's a minority.

I just don't see a lot of improving on the original figure.
I understand the choice since it's a nice 2 pack.
But c'mon the original Optimus has good articulation and a good mode.

Have you handled them before? They look nice but they aren't fun figures to play with. The Super and Omega mode torso armor doesn't really snap on well and comes off easily when handled and the extension doesn't do a great job of supporting the body. The new figures fix this through stronger connections and using the backpack as added support since it doesn't have a battery pack. The original had good articulation for the smaller bot modes, but the joints on Super and Omega weren't strong enough for the weight of the armor. The new figure has better joints, just look at those chonky thighs on Prime.

And the partsforming is still there.

I'm not sure how these would be done without partsforming. Ultra Magnus even does it to change between bot and truck mode in the cartoon, it's part of his character. They even got rid of UM's thighs on the side of Omega Prime and replaced them with cartoon accurate panels.

You can also still get that Optimus and Magnus new unopened for an acceptable price online.
SO I understand the choice but also don't.

"Acceptable" seems to average around $160+ on eBay looking at sold auctions. These work out to $125 each, are bigger, more cartoon accurate, add a third figure, and will include more accessories when all the goals are unlocked. Seems like an easy choice considering all the issues with the original and others seem to agree.

RID is just to modern to reissue in such a special way. It could've easily been a Legacy Commander/Leader and people would be just as happy.

23/24 years isn't very modern. Just because they had decent articulation for the time didn't make them ahead of their time or anything. Afterall, they were just rehashing what Beast Wars had done years earlier. Nobody claimed it was too soon to reissue G1 Optimus Prime for the first time in 2000 (if you don't count the 1990 reissue) after 16 years or that 20 years was too soon for MP-01. This was as good a time as any. Heck we had an actual reissue in Encore just a couple years ago and that thing goes for around $400+ new now, it cost much more than $250 at release even at the best prices. For what we get the HasLab is a bargain.

I say reserve Haslab's for old Transformers or just reissue Fortress Maximuss again or something. Not update a leader that was already a good action figure.

The Encore release of Fort Max wasn't a great seller, those things lingered on sale for a long time, it's never coming back. They sell for high prices on eBay, but that doesn't mean demand is high, it just means $500~ is what the people looking for them are willing to pay now. Either way that would never happen as a HasLab.

Emerje

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I say reserve Haslab's for old Transformers or just reissue Fortress Maximuss again or something. Not update a leader that was already a good action figure.

The Encore release of Fort Max wasn't a great seller, those things lingered on sale for a long time, it's never coming back. They sell for high prices on eBay, but that doesn't mean demand is high, it just means $500~ is what the people looking for them are willing to pay now. Either way that would never happen as a HasLab.

Emerje

This tends to be the flipside of Titan Class. They do seem to shelfwarm or become dramatically reduced in sale bins more often than their smaller counterparts. Some are popular enough to always sell out. Others like Guardian Robot or Cybertron Metroplex, don't.