The Energon Pub

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When Transformers was the least Transformers? The Japanese Fanbase is so contrarian it can make your head spin

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:...

When Transformers was the least Transformers? The Japanese Fanbase is so contrarian it can make your head spin

You mean between the G1 cartoon accurate only portion to this on were discussing now who love IDW? Seems quite like other parts of the fan base to be fair, that's like saying that all of the western fans want nothing more then G1.

The contradictions that dictate who is represented in each line, because they are the fanbase that is listened to. The one with the bias towards Autobots (which, I get is a cultural thing) has left the G1 MP line in limbo for years.

They liked animal Beast Wars designs, hence why Season One is being represented in MP form. But when they looked more like traditional Transformers via Metals/Transmetals, that flopped?

Furman IDWverse was G1 reimagined. Visually, the Cybertronians never looked better. The Roberts/Barber era only shares Transformers likenesses at best. Aesthetically less like Transformers too. But that is the bit they like?

But your treating the Japanese fans as a monolithic block, they all aren't going to share the same tastes, unless you got data to prove otherwise, Sabrblade never said that those who liked Barber/Roberts era were the same ones who were buying Masterpiece toys.

No, I'm not talking about individuals. That is why I said "fanbase". I didn't make the same connection between IDW and MPs either. The selections for the MP line is based on popularity, garnered from the home fanbase. That much has been stated by all here, many times.

What I was saying is that the post-G1 Transformers lines that prove popular in Japan tend to be those that are those far removed from being traditional Transformers. Even the Takara series moved away from what the Sunbow years portrayed to fans.

The MP line is all about show accuracy.
But I'd really like a special "multiverse" MP line were they would go all over the games, comics, and non-G1 cartoons.

I'm have an feeling that,before comitting to being media accurate,the masterpiece toys were supposed to be the ultimate toy of character,putting all enginering tricks they know that they couldn't afford to do in the original toy.

They can still follow this trend,but I don't want it to be the only thing that the Masterpiece toys are.

Day 118 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.

I haven't actually seen MP-1 in person but, I would have been interested to see the line developed to that standard. I'm told that he is the most accurate Prime to use, should you choose to recreate that scene from The Agenda part 2.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I haven't actually seen MP-1 in person but, I would have been interested to see the line developed to that standard. I'm told that he is the most accurate Prime to use, should you choose to recreate that scene from The Agenda part 2.

Size-wise, yes.

I think that's what was mainly meant by designing with Beast Wars in mind. And for what it is, it works very well. And MP-1 makes for a proper Optimus to go with Alternators if you have them.

The problem came with the Masterpiece Seeker mold, Masterpiece Grimlock, and the first go at MP Roddy having been made to a smaller scale than the Optimus and Megatron molds. Since the smaller-scale molds had the numbers advantage (especially with MP-5 being an incomplete poorly-executed write-off of a toy) and a smaller scale was a bit more economical... it was they that dictated the scale when Takara went all-in.

The only anomaly on that list was Grimlock. Starscream and Takara's Rodimus were properly scaled to Megatron and Optimus (even if Megatron was a mess, he was the right height) and only Grimlock should have been bigger.

Does Grimlock scale any better with the later Optimus?

TulioDude wrote:I'm have an feeling that,before comitting to being media accurate,the masterpiece toys were supposed to be the ultimate toy of character,putting all enginering tricks they know that they couldn't afford to do in the original toy.

They can still follow this trend,but I don't want it to be the only thing that the Masterpiece toys are.

Day 118 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.

Do you count the days that you're offline in your tally?

By the way just cracked open MP Smokescreen, the original one, and man it's a good toy. I forgot how well the Datsuns were. I really want to get the plus versions of Prowl and Bluestreak now. I have the plus version of smokescreen in my POL at BBTS.

ZeroWolf wrote:Does Grimlock scale any better with the later Optimus?

I think MP Grimlock is still too small scale wise compared to MP-10 and MP-44. To have the proper scale with Grimlock (and the dinobots) you have no choice but to go 3P for now.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The only anomaly on that list was Grimlock. Starscream and Takara's Rodimus were properly scaled to Megatron and Optimus

Not according to the consensus of people on TFW2005 and other places they weren't! Rodimus sure doesn't look properly scaled to MP-1 here:

He's in Rodimus Prime mode, and yet he only comes up to Optimus' chest. They should be the same height.

And the Seekers look too small compared to MP-5.

Rodimus Prime wrote:(even if Megatron was a mess, he was the right height)

Did I say he wasn't? No. What I said was that he was the right height next to MP-1 Optimus... but since he was such a mess, he wasn't exactly a winning argument for going with their scale as opposed to the scale of Roddy and the Seekers.

Rodimus Prime wrote:and only Grimlock should have been bigger.

A bit, yeah. Still, he's not as bad off compared to MP-10 as he was compared to MP-1.

MP-5 Megatron was such a rushed design that his designer literally had only 12 days to design him.

Sabrblade wrote:MP-5 Megatron was such a rushed design that his designer literally had only 12 days to design him.

I wonder what the hell was the deal with such a rush? Did the Takara offices had a bomb set inside and it would have exploded if the building was going slower than 50mph?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The only anomaly on that list was Grimlock. Starscream and Takara's Rodimus were properly scaled to Megatron and Optimus

Not according to the consensus of people on TFW2005 and other places they weren't! Rodimus sure doesn't look properly scaled to MP-1 here:

He's in Rodimus Prime mode, and yet he only comes up to Optimus' chest. They should be the same height.

Well it's a good thing then that I don't give a crap about what other people think how I should look at my collection. But I will concede that MP-09 should have either been bigger, or just called Hot Rod instead of Rodimus Prime. He is in scale with MP-01 if he was identified as Hot Rod, which is how he is on my shelf. The "Rodimus mode" is dumb and I don't use it. It was a cheap cop-out.

And the Seekers look too small compared to MP-5.

They could have been a tad taller, but not much. Maybe an inch at the most.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The only anomaly on that list was Grimlock. Starscream and Takara's Rodimus were properly scaled to Megatron and Optimus

Not according to the consensus of people on TFW2005 and other places they weren't! Rodimus sure doesn't look properly scaled to MP-1 here:

He's in Rodimus Prime mode, and yet he only comes up to Optimus' chest. They should be the same height.

Well it's a good thing then that I don't give a crap about what other people think how I should look at my collection. But I will concede that MP-09 should have either been bigger, or just called Hot Rod instead of Rodimus Prime. He is in scale with MP-01 if he was identified as Hot Rod, which is how he is on my shelf. The "Rodimus mode" is dumb and I don't use it. It was a cheap cop-out.

And the Seekers look too small compared to MP-5.

They could have been a tad taller, but not much. Maybe an inch at the most.

There's nothing to concede. The designers based the scale of MP-10 on MP-9. It was a whole thing with them shaking hands with all kinds of interviews about doing the further Masterpieces starting with MP-10 in the current scale.

Also, the figure is Rodimus Convoy...how is the main mode of the figure a cop out?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The only anomaly on that list was Grimlock. Starscream and Takara's Rodimus were properly scaled to Megatron and Optimus

Not according to the consensus of people on TFW2005 and other places they weren't! Rodimus sure doesn't look properly scaled to MP-1 here:
-image snipped-
He's in Rodimus Prime mode, and yet he only comes up to Optimus' chest. They should be the same height.

Well it's a good thing then that I don't give a crap about what other people think how I should look at my collection. But I will concede that MP-09 should have either been bigger, or just called Hot Rod instead of Rodimus Prime. He is in scale with MP-01 if he was identified as Hot Rod, which is how he is on my shelf. The "Rodimus mode" is dumb and I don't use it. It was a cheap cop-out.

Based on everything I've heard about MP-09, "cheap" is not exactly the right word. "Overambitious" is more like it. Having a Hot Rod toy that can literally morph and grow into Rodimus Prime (who, as Sol Magnus pointed out, was intended as the main mode of the figure) without any sort of partsforming is an ambitious idea... and it seems to be at the root of a lot of his much-bemoaned frailty issues (the ones people groused about incessantly for months after his release). It also makes him out of scale with himself. The Hot Rod mode is in scale with Alternators and MP-1, but the Rodimus Prime mode is too small compared to them. Meanwhile, that Rodimus Prime mode is in scale with the Seekers and MP-10 onward stuff (heck, one of MP-10's selling points was being the same size as MP-09's Rodimus Prime mode) but the Hot Rod mode is too big compared to those figures; hence the existence of MP-28.

If anything is a "cheap copout" it's the stupid Hasbro release of MP-09. Also known as AN INCOMPLETE TOY.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

-image snipped-
And the Seekers look too small compared to MP-5.

They could have been a tad taller, but not much. Maybe an inch at the most.

Depending on how tall the MP Seeker mold's head is, maybe more than inch. Going by the cartoon, the Seekers and Soundwave should be one head shorter than Megatron. Compared to MP-5? The Seekers are at least three heads shorter.

sol magnus wrote:There's nothing to concede. The designers based the scale of MP-10 on MP-9. It was a whole thing with them shaking hands with all kinds of interviews about doing the further Masterpieces starting with MP-10 in the current scale.

But I'm talking about comparing MP-09 to MP-01. If Rodimus and Optimus are to be equal, they need to be same height. Are you saying the designers stated that MP-09 was the start of the new scale? Because he does scale to MP-10 as Rodimus.

Also, the figure is Rodimus Convoy...how is the main mode of the figure a cop out?

Because in the figure there's no real difference between Hot Rod and Rodimus, other than a small extension of the hips and raising the shoulders. And the face change, which adds nothing to height. The only way the name works is if MP-09 was intended to be the start of the new scale.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

sol magnus wrote:There's nothing to concede. The designers based the scale of MP-10 on MP-9. It was a whole thing with them shaking hands with all kinds of interviews about doing the further Masterpieces starting with MP-10 in the current scale.

But I'm talking about comparing MP-09 to MP-01. If Rodimus and Optimus are to be equal, they need to be same height. Are you saying the designers stated that MP-09 was the start of the new scale? Because he does scale to MP-10 as Rodimus.

I believe that's what Sol is saying, yes. And MP-10 is shown next to MP-09's Rodimus Prime form on the box:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Also, the figure is Rodimus Convoy...how is the main mode of the figure a cop out?

Because in the figure there's no real difference between Hot Rod and Rodimus, other than a small extension of the hips and raising the shoulders. And the face change, which adds nothing to height.

Well, there are reasons for that. A pretty big one is that Rodimus Prime's robot mode design is literally just Hot Rod's stretched in the legs and arms, slightly bulked up, and given darker colors and a more lined face, so what more difference do you want?
If the answer is "a bigger Rodimus Prime mode"... Well, reason #2 is that it's physically impossible for a hard plastic action figure to magically increase its own mass. And there's only so much they could make his legs extend while still having him able to transform to Hot Rod's car mode. They could have made his Prime mode bigger via partsforming, but would that have seemed as impressive as having him actually able to transform between the two robot modes?

Rodimus Prime wrote:The only way the name works is if MP-09 was intended to be the start of the new scale.

I think I heard some things toward that end? (Although technically, MP-3 is the real start of that scale). I do know that the Rodimus Prime mode is the one Takara was really hyping, along with the evolution gimmick. And unlike the ripoff US version, the Takara version can also actually assume Rodimus Prime's vehicle mode.

Well, the "evolution" gimmick is crap, because the change is minimal, and definitely not adequate when trying to portray Hot Rod's change to Rodimus. They should have stuck with 1 version of the figure and gave it the proper name. If the scale did start with MP-03, then it's still off, as Rodimus should be bigger than Starscream. It's fine to call him Rodimus if the scale started later, with Grimlock, seeing as how all the MPs between 03 and 08 are just redecos, with the exception of 05, which is just...ugh. So really the new scale started with Grimlock, even if that wasn't the intention at the time.

And I agree with Hasbro's version being incomplete. When I had the trailer for MP-09, I would transform the TrU version into car mode and stick him in, while having MP-09 in robot mode.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, the "evolution" gimmick is crap, because the change is minimal, and definitely not adequate when trying to portray Hot Rod's change to Rodimus.

It is, but it seemed impressive in concept even if the extreme similarity of Rodimus Prime and Hot Rod combined with the physical limits on having the limbs extend while keeping him transformable doomed it to be less impressive than the conceptually-similar Animated Shockwave.

Rodimus Prime wrote:They should have stuck with 1 version of the figure and gave it the proper name

In hindsight, yes, especially given the durability issues. It proved to be quite the Icarian ambition.

Rodimus Prime wrote:If the scale did start with MP-03, then it's still off, as Rodimus should be bigger than Starscream.

Hang on, lemme check the gallery.

He, uh, sure seems to be bigger than Screamer there so.. *Shrug*

I say that the new scale technically started with MP-3 both because of that size, and because MP-11 is actually an MP-3 retool.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I agree with Hasbro's version being incomplete. When I had the trailer for MP-09, I would transform the TrU version into car mode and stick him in, while having MP-09 in robot mode.

I think a certain Kup quote is a great way to describe the Hasbro release.

I wouldn't call it Icarian, it was a small advancement in design and mechanics. Giving a human the ability to fly is a slightly bigger accomplishment.

Roddy is like a half-head taller than Screamer. That's so miniscule it's not worth mentioning. Rodimus, as a leader, should be a head taller than Starscream.