The Energon Pub

You know, I'm not a toy designer but I can't but think the problem with most fembot designs seem that designers never really figured out a way to properly allocate the mass without going to two extremes: sticks-with-kibble or retool-of-a-male figure. Even the chunkier designs can be made to look female simply if you look at the difference in proportions, with smaller shoulders and wider hips. You don't even need a classic-looking fembot like Blackarachnia or Arcee, all they need to figure out is how to apply the usual boxy look of Transformers to a 'skeleton' matching females proportions rather than male ones. It's all in the proportions and ratio of certain body parts to other. You could even make a chunky and heavily armored fembot and still have it look female as long as the body shape lines up.

I could be wrong and it's harder than it look. Maybe.

Skritz wrote:You know, I'm not a toy designer but I can't but think the problem with most fembot designs seem that designers never really figured out a way to properly allocate the mass without going to two extremes: sticks-with-kibble or retool-of-a-male figure. Even the chunkier designs can be made to look female simply if you look at the difference in proportions, with smaller shoulders and wider hips. You don't even need a classic-looking fembot like Blackarachnia or Arcee, all they need to figure out is how to apply the usual boxy look of Transformers to a 'skeleton' matching females proportions rather than male ones. It's all in the proportions and ratio of certain body parts to other. You could even make a chunky and heavily armored fembot and still have it look female as long as the body shape lines up.

I could be wrong and it's harder than it look. Maybe.

There's a simpler explanation, yet it's the hardest thing to properly figure out: how to turn curved surfaces into straight ones.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Skritz wrote:You know, I'm not a toy designer but I can't but think the problem with most fembot designs seem that designers never really figured out a way to properly allocate the mass without going to two extremes: sticks-with-kibble or retool-of-a-male figure. Even the chunkier designs can be made to look female simply if you look at the difference in proportions, with smaller shoulders and wider hips. You don't even need a classic-looking fembot like Blackarachnia or Arcee, all they need to figure out is how to apply the usual boxy look of Transformers to a 'skeleton' matching females proportions rather than male ones. It's all in the proportions and ratio of certain body parts to other. You could even make a chunky and heavily armored fembot and still have it look female as long as the body shape lines up.

I could be wrong and it's harder than it look. Maybe.

There's a simpler explanation, yet it's the hardest thing to properly figure out: how to turn curved surfaces into straight ones.

It doesn't have to be curves: what I'm talking about is the question of the body mass ratio and proportions. In other words, even the chunkiest of fembots need smaller shoulders and more in the lower body and legs and hips. Not this is not a LOL BUTTS comment!

What I'm referring to is this:

There are better and more detailed pics but some veer into NSFW territory. Overall the male body shape tend toward larger torso and overall a tendency toward being an inverted triangle, at least if we're talking fit and/or idealized shapes. This is something very common in TF design in general, including Optimus Prime himself. Larger shoulder, slimmer waist but also slimmer hips versus smaller shoulder, slim waist and larger hips. You don't need a curvy fembot design with implied boobs-and-butt, all the mold need are proportions and shapes. A less curvaceous body type just mean a triangle as opposed to the inverted triangle of male body shape.

Case in point: Strongarm.

But then you got fembots like Strika.

I'm having trouble finding the images posted a while back on modifying or showing how to on the back piece of Throne of Primes Optimal Optimus. Can someone please post those images again, it would be epic and my thanks in advance.

I posted this in the Customizations forum but I figured I may as well show it off here too:


My Grimlock has a sword now.

Skritz wrote:You know, I'm not a toy designer but I can't but think the problem with most fembot designs seem that designers never really figured out a way to properly allocate the mass without going to two extremes: sticks-with-kibble or retool-of-a-male figure. Even the chunkier designs can be made to look female simply if you look at the difference in proportions, with smaller shoulders and wider hips. You don't even need a classic-looking fembot like Blackarachnia or Arcee, all they need to figure out is how to apply the usual boxy look of Transformers to a 'skeleton' matching females proportions rather than male ones. It's all in the proportions and ratio of certain body parts to other. You could even make a chunky and heavily armored fembot and still have it look female as long as the body shape lines up.

I could be wrong and it's harder than it look. Maybe.

Problem is in a lof of cases its "Retool pf a male figure" because the male figure predates the mold usage. Thats what happened to Elita, she got the short shaft because they decided to use a Stardcream mold. And I would argue that Prime Arcee and the Chromia Retool did the proportiins pretty well, qlthough they cheated and used a smaller surface area vehicle. Yes, Chromia has a backpack, but that's more of "What do we do with a random wheel and windsgield" than anything.

Also, I have to point out the whole Prime Starscream thing: the fandom cried because it was too feminine for Screamer, yet when we got TFSS Slipstream there was outcry about it being a masculine toy. So you can't win for losing.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I posted this in the Customizations forum but I figured I may as well show it off here too:


My Grimlock has a sword now.

Nice. I cheated and went with the Nonnef version

RiddlerJ wrote:I got Firestar and Inferno. The couple is back together

Of course, I could go really freaky and get Inferno with four Firestars for the ultimate Harem combiner.

Flashwave wrote:Also, I have to point out the whole Prime Starscream thing: the fandom cried because it was too feminine for Screamer, yet when we got TFSS Slipstream there was outcry about it being a masculine toy. So you can't win for losing.

not me!
but i always thought Screamy was a bit fem.
even back in G1.

and that figure is so different, beautifully designed, creepy & has a FLAWLESS alt mode.
its one of my favorite designs
and i hate Starscream.

Skritz wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Skritz wrote:You know, I'm not a toy designer but I can't but think the problem with most fembot designs seem that designers never really figured out a way to properly allocate the mass without going to two extremes: sticks-with-kibble or retool-of-a-male figure. Even the chunkier designs can be made to look female simply if you look at the difference in proportions, with smaller shoulders and wider hips. You don't even need a classic-looking fembot like Blackarachnia or Arcee, all they need to figure out is how to apply the usual boxy look of Transformers to a 'skeleton' matching females proportions rather than male ones. It's all in the proportions and ratio of certain body parts to other. You could even make a chunky and heavily armored fembot and still have it look female as long as the body shape lines up.

I could be wrong and it's harder than it look. Maybe.

There's a simpler explanation, yet it's the hardest thing to properly figure out: how to turn curved surfaces into straight ones.

It doesn't have to be curves: what I'm talking about is the question of the body mass ratio and proportions. In other words, even the chunkiest of fembots need smaller shoulders and more in the lower body and legs and hips. Not this is not a LOL BUTTS comment!

What I'm referring to is this:

There are better and more detailed pics but some veer into NSFW territory. Overall the male body shape tend toward larger torso and overall a tendency toward being an inverted triangle, at least if we're talking fit and/or idealized shapes. This is something very common in TF design in general, including Optimus Prime himself. Larger shoulder, slimmer waist but also slimmer hips versus smaller shoulder, slim waist and larger hips. You don't need a curvy fembot design with implied boobs-and-butt, all the mold need are proportions and shapes. A less curvaceous body type just mean a triangle as opposed to the inverted triangle of male body shape.

Case in point: Strongarm.

everyone is a beautiful snowflake.
or a horrendous snowflake.
either way
over-generalize male/female stereotypes much?

then what about this?


or


or


or my FAVORITEST


SNOWFLAKES!!!!!!

Also, fun trivia: G1 Starscream is female in France.

william-james88 wrote:Also, fun trivia: G1 Starscream is female in France.

the French...

Yes, there's been plenty of male Transformers with bodies that look more femme to humans (like the Seekers, with the slenderness that comes of having a jet fuselage torso combined with the placement of the ventral air ducts in robot mode), while by contrast not all ladybots are designed to look that way. After all, nothing says they have to be.

However, the Female Autobots squad from "The Search for Alpha Trion" undeniably are drawn that way - that's the hand that's been dealt. Which is the core issue with doing toys of them: their robot mode animation models are drawn as being on the curvy side because human gender stereotype shorthand, but their vehicle modes (with the exception of Elita) are drawn decidedly more on the angular side. So designers have to strike a balance. Arcee is a lot easier because she actually has a curvy car mode (looking at her in altmode next to Tracks, I'm pretty sure Dery intended it as a future!Corvette).

I think they made Elita out of Starscream because of two reasons - one is a lack of clear reference of her G1 vehicle mode (the altmode model sheets for her and her squad are MIA, and her altmode is mostly obscured by Optimus during the entire time it's on screen), the other is the extent to which the seeker body outline can work as stereotypically feminine (added bulk from combiner sockets notwithstanding).

william-james88 wrote:Also, fun trivia: G1 Starscream is female in France.

Not 100% correct. In the French and French-Canadian dubs of the TV series, he's a guy. But the movie was dubbed by 3rd company that dubbed him as a woman. The same goes for Shrapnel.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Also, fun trivia: G1 Starscream is female in France.

Not 100% correct. In the French and French-Canadian dubs of the TV series, he's a guy. But the movie was dubbed by 3rd company that dubbed him as a woman. The same goes for Shrapnel.

That is indeed the result of a problem which occur over here with dubs, especially the further one goes back: the tv series and movies can have two completely different dubs, especially if one just import a french or belgian dub and the other decide to have a local one.

mordhelm wrote:Basically you need to know how to hunt your local area.

Nah, I've been hunting my local area for 25 years or so. (Since G2 when I went from kid that plays with toys to teen that collects toys and sometimes plays with them. ) There are no secrets in my area, I know all the hunting places. The problem is that within the 15 mile radius from my house my only options are two Walmarts, two Kmarts, and a Target. That's it for regular new figure hunting. So when Target decides they don't need to stock anything past wave one, which has been the case from the start aside from PotP Voyagers wave 2, or Walmart leaves the shelves completely baron a month at a time and no longer carries Leaders, I really have no choice but to look online. And while shopping online hasn't really saved me much money, I also haven't payed over MSRP on anything. Right now my priority is finding Prime Masters wave 2 and 3 at MSRP, ideally on Amazon or locally, but that's looking less and less likely...

Emerje

Just goes to show how much more effective GoBots was in its depicting fembots (Crasher, Path Finder, Small Foot, Spay-C, Sparky, Vamp, etc.) to be just as blocky (or just as monster-like, in Vamp's case) as its males.

Sabrblade wrote:Just goes to show how much more effective GoBots was in its depicting fembots (Crasher, Path Finder, Small Foot, Spay-C, Sparky, Vamp, etc.) to be just as blocky (or just as monster-like, in Vamp's case) as its males.

Spay-C is a fembot? Never realized how questionable that name is. Is there a Neuter-D I don't know about?

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Just goes to show how much more effective GoBots was in its depicting fembots (Crasher, Path Finder, Small Foot, Spay-C, Sparky, Vamp, etc.) to be just as blocky (or just as monster-like, in Vamp's case) as its males.

Spay-C is a fembot? Never realized how questionable that name is.

It's... just a GoBot-ization of "spacey".

...Cuz she's a space shuttle.

Sabrblade wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Just goes to show how much more effective GoBots was in its depicting fembots (Crasher, Path Finder, Small Foot, Spay-C, Sparky, Vamp, etc.) to be just as blocky (or just as monster-like, in Vamp's case) as its males.

Spay-C is a fembot? Never realized how questionable that name is.

It's... just a GoBot-ization of "spacey".

...Cuz she's a space shuttle.

Oh, I get it, I just think it was weird to have a female character named Spay-C. I never gave it a second thought because I had always assumed it was a guy, but now that name has taken on a whole new connotation.

Emerje

Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Go-Bots having their own thread will never cease to amuse me.

Anyway. Impactor: Ironhide retool or not? I'm 50/50 on expecting it, what about you guys?

Skritz wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Go-Bots having their own thread will never cease to amuse me.

Anyway. Impactor: Ironhide retool or not? I'm 50/50 on expecting it, what about you guys?

POWER OF THE PRIMES, SKRITZ.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Go-Bots having their own thread will never cease to amuse me.

Anyway. Impactor: Ironhide retool or not? I'm 50/50 on expecting it, what about you guys?

POWER OF THE PRIMES, SKRITZ.

Wrong thread. Sorry, tired.

Okay then, second question: will we ever find out if that Yokuryu head sculpt was something which ever got past concept art stage? Do we have a scrapped partial retool of Volcanicus-crossed-with-Abominus as Dinoking which got abandonned?

Skritz wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Go-Bots having their own thread will never cease to amuse me.

Anyway. Impactor: Ironhide retool or not? I'm 50/50 on expecting it, what about you guys?

POWER OF THE PRIMES, SKRITZ.

Wrong thread. Sorry, tired.

Okay then, second question: will we ever find out if that Yokuryu head sculpt was something which ever got past concept art stage? Do we have a scrapped partial retool of Volcanicus-crossed-with-Abominus as Dinoking which got abandonned?

Wasn't the Wildfly/Yokuryu head on display at one of the cons/toy shows? Or was it really only seen in a CG render?

Skritz wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Let's get back to the topic at hand, please. GoBots have their own thread.

Go-Bots having their own thread will never cease to amuse me.

Anyway. Impactor: Ironhide retool or not? I'm 50/50 on expecting it, what about you guys?

POWER OF THE PRIMES, SKRITZ.

Wrong thread. Sorry, tired.

Okay then, second question: will we ever find out if that Yokuryu head sculpt was something which ever got past concept art stage? Do we have a scrapped partial retool of Volcanicus-crossed-with-Abominus as Dinoking which got abandonned?

No harm done, just wanted to make sure you got back on track before anyone more official had a chance to complain.

I would prefer Monstructor over Dinoking, but I do believe that that tooling does exist and got scrapped, yeah. We already know it got past concept art, since we know the Wildfly/Yokuryu head exists because we saw it on a painted sample of Cutthroat at...I want to say NYCC, and Snarl had those alt mode guns from the Dinoking Stegosaurus. Hopefully it'll still show up later in Generations?