The Energon Pub

[Sowndwave76]

So on a slightly random stop to Target with the wife last night, I found SS86 Grimlock and Jazz!!!
There were 2 Grimlock and 3 Jazz figures.
After grabbing those 2, I didn't look around very closely. But I think there were a couple Hot Rods, Kups, and a handful of Blurrs. I did notice there was quite a bit from Kingdom as well, but no Voyagers. A couple Leader Primes.

Anyway, super happy with both of these figures... Grimlock is incredibly good, despite what I'm calling "Over-done Siege/ER mold details" on his shoulders, arms (dino legs) and bot mode legs.
This stands out to me quite a bit when he's in T-Rex mode; quite a bit of his look is on par with Cyclonus, Scourge, Hot Rod, Jazz, etc.
But the legs, and even parts of his back are just a bit overdone imo for something that's supposed to be "screen-accurate".

Nonetheless, I'm very happy... Didn't think twice about the $50. And overall his appearance and his scale are on point. Cannot wait for Slag, and hopefully, the other 3 in this class with this attention to detail.

[ZeroWolf]

Remember that he was supposed to be in the WfC line originally till he got booted out in favour of Beast Wars stuff

[Gauntlet101010]

Alright, I decided to put Jazz on preorder at BBTS. It's a TF desert where I am, so if I see him I'll get him, the preorder is a good safety net.

But I also got United Jazz out of storage and I still think he's great. Sharp paint apps, great use of clear plastic, fun pop-out speakers, No ankle tilts, but still really posable ... and I don't really care about screen accuracy for all my TFs as long as they look awesome. The only real flaw is that his torso doesn't peg in.

But for all the praise Studio has for it's car mode the feet are still sticking out in a very visible way. And how does 14 avoid a problem? Why is 4 a big deal?

It seems like sacrificing the back of the car is a bit of a trend these days.

[-Kanrabat-]

It seems like sacrificing the back of the car is a bit of a trend these days.

It ain't so bad. I see this as a super pimped rear bumper.
A better example or a dreadful rear in vehicle mode are the obvious hands sticking out of the voyager 2009 rotf Starscream.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

And how does 14 avoid a problem? Why is 4 a big deal?

Licensing, especially because the car mode is really close to the actual vehicle. Plus, in Japan, "4" is considered unlucky because one of the pronunciations ("shi") is close to, if not the same as, the one for death. Dunno if that was a factor considering other Jazz's had "4" both here and in Japan...

[Gauntlet101010]

But how does 4 affect licensing exactly? Sure it was a sticker on the original Jazz, but it's also just a number. Was it on the original Porche a lot or something?

Jazz has had 4 on other releases, so I don't think it's an unlucky thing.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

But how does 4 affect licensing exactly? Sure it was a sticker on the original Jazz, but it's also just a number. Was it on the original Porche a lot? or something?

The #4 is an actual racing number it rode under for the 1976 World Championship for Makes, Mugello Circuit. I believe there are separate rules for licensing specific race car colors, sponsors and numbers.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

But how does 4 affect licensing exactly? Sure it was a sticker on the original Jazz, but it's also just a number. Was it on the original Porche a lot? or something?

The #4 is an actual racing number it rode under for the 1976 World Championship for Makes, Mugello Circuit. I believe there are separate rules for licensing specific race car colors, sponsors and numbers.

There are, that's why the DotM wreckers have had some interesting work done with them over the years. Leadfoot could not be widely sold in the US thanks to the target sponsorship (unless they outright removed said sponsor logos), at the time of the original toys release they were based on current car designs, makes, and sponsors, so they needed the permissions for sponsorship logos, race number stylings, and they required the Nascar logo for release.

Now mind you, some of that was alleviated with time, since the 3 drivers of those cars no longer race, the sponsorships are no longer attached to those specific cars, and the heavy weapon modifications they were all able to use probably helped, like how Jazz's race car alt mode was originally special and unique to one car. But those are also american stock cars with GM ownership that are easier to license than a 40 year old Porsche (or even porsche in general). There is a reason Porsche is hard to license in transformers, and a sort-of porsche with exact paint marks of a real porsche would be pushing it too far in this case

[Gauntlet101010]

Thanks, that's good to know!

[Sowndwave76]

Since getting Grimlock and Jazz last night and having a decent chance to check them out, I still find it interesting that there are a few figures that have been placed in the "wrong lines".
This isn't a complaint, and I understand how waves have to include different slots for a specific number of class/size.
But the aesthetic of a few of these are such an easy, obvious give-away.
Cyclonus (and I wouldn't doubt, Galvatron) surely was supposed to be in SS86... When I've looked at the differences in the amount of molded details, he really encompasses a more simple, "animated" design. This isn't to suggest there weren't any design additions, I'm sure there are.
But look at these photos of him compared to ER Starscream.
Sure they're totally different characters, but again, look at the difference in the amount of molded details... It's not like there wasn't enough surface area on Cyclonus's lower legs to add extra lines, indentations, etc. This is especially true with his shoulders, and really his whole torso. But it's been left nice and clean (minus the 2 pegs), with just large, smooth, flat areas.








While Scourge has more detail than Cyclonus, most of it looks more purposeful and intentional imo...
Not all, but most. Where as with Starscream, there's a ton that kinda makes me think, "Huh... Okay... Kinda neat, but mostly unnecessary".



Grimlock is a figure who I don't think completely fits the aesthetic of SS86... He looks much more Siege/ER/Kingdom to me. Maybe not as much for the T-Rex mode, but in bot mode for sure.

Similar to all of that "extra stuff" of the seeker mold, there's a lot of that here with Grimlock.


This isn't even the best angle to show all of the details on his shoulder/arm.

One of the best examples imo is seen in his upper legs... Again, just my opinion, but really really unnecessary detailed molding. And I'm not saying it looks horrible, but it does again kinda have me thinking, "Huh... Okay... If Hastak is going for a more screen-accurate look, then why all of this?"
Not saying I wouldn't want anything to break-up the look of these surfaces, but this is a ton imo.




What will be interesting for me is seeing what we get with Galvatron, Slag, Wreck-gar and Rodimus Prime.

[Rtron]

Your post reminds me that I don't really like that pointless extra detail on G1 designs. When I want complex designs, I go to the movie designs. I think the cool thing about the G1 designs is just how minimalistic they are. I specially dislike all the extra pointless lines you're showing in the pictures. I get car body panel lines or fuselage rivets, you know, detail that's necessary to make the vehicle mode look more realistic. But I prefer the robot modes to be clean.

It's not a dealbreaker at all, but I'd prefer it wasn't there.

This is all despite being born like, a decade after G1, and only discovering its existence like, years after Beast Machines ended, and loving the Bayformers designs. They fulfill different aesthetic needs for me.

[Rodimus Prime]

Honestly I was already planning on passing on Grimlock, and seeing these up-close shots just reinforces that. To me there is such a thing as too much detail. The figure over all looks good, and I might get it if I find it for cheap, but right now I'm happy with my MP Grimlock, and he represents the character on my movie shelf. So for now this Grimlock is a pass, but only because he would be an excess figure if I got him, not because I think there's much wrong with him.

[AcademyofDrX]

Your post reminds me that I don't really like that pointless extra detail on G1 designs. When I want complex designs, I go to the movie designs. I think the cool thing about the G1 designs is just how minimalistic they are. I specially dislike all the extra pointless lines you're showing in the pictures. I get car body panel lines or fuselage rivets, you know, detail that's necessary to make the vehicle mode look more realistic. But I prefer the robot modes to be clean.

It's not a dealbreaker at all, but I'd prefer it wasn't there.

This is all despite being born like, a decade after G1, and only discovering its existence like, years after Beast Machines ended, and loving the Bayformers designs. They fulfill different aesthetic needs for me.

I understand what you're saying, though I think it might be worth pointing out the difference between G1 cartoon and G1 toy designs. There's not always a clear difference, but SS86 Grimlock has several aesthetic elements that are directly inherited from the toy, especially his transparent chestplate. It's not cartoon-accurate, but it's still "G1" in at least some contexts.

I usually prefer that my modern G1 figures have as much toy influence as cartoon influence, but I already have the PotP Grimlock as an update to the original toy, so I kinda wish SS86 was even more cartoon. Still a great figure, though.

[Rtron]

Your post reminds me that I don't really like that pointless extra detail on G1 designs. When I want complex designs, I go to the movie designs. I think the cool thing about the G1 designs is just how minimalistic they are. I specially dislike all the extra pointless lines you're showing in the pictures. I get car body panel lines or fuselage rivets, you know, detail that's necessary to make the vehicle mode look more realistic. But I prefer the robot modes to be clean.

It's not a dealbreaker at all, but I'd prefer it wasn't there.

This is all despite being born like, a decade after G1, and only discovering its existence like, years after Beast Machines ended, and loving the Bayformers designs. They fulfill different aesthetic needs for me.

I understand what you're saying, though I think it might be worth pointing out the difference between G1 cartoon and G1 toy designs. There's not always a clear difference, but SS86 Grimlock has several aesthetic elements that are directly inherited from the toy, especially his transparent chestplate. It's not cartoon-accurate, but it's still "G1" in at least some contexts.

I usually prefer that my modern G1 figures have as much toy influence as cartoon influence, but I already have the PotP Grimlock as an update to the original toy, so I kinda wish SS86 was even more cartoon. Still a great figure, though.

Oh, of course. It's just that, though I found the G1 cartoon very crappy, I fell in love with its character models. I get the toy nostalgia from those who were there when they came out. But, having come 20 years late to the party, the toys seem a bit too abstract to base proper robot modes on, while the cartoon character models provide cohesive and clean robot modes. In my opinion, G1 updates should homage the toys in functionality and accessories, real life for the alt-mode if it's based on something that exists, but the cartoon in robot mode aesthetics.

This is all personal preference of course, and from someone who probably isn't the target demographic for nostalgic G1 updates.

Edit: And I agree that Grimlock looks great, in pictures and video at least since I haven't got one. These are just minor nitpicks that Sowndwave76's post brought to my mind.

[ZeroWolf]

Since getting Grimlock and Jazz last night and having a decent chance to check them out, I still find it interesting that there are a few figures that have been placed in the "wrong lines".
This isn't a complaint, and I understand how waves have to include different slots for a specific number of class/size.
But the aesthetic of a few of these are such an easy, obvious give-away.
Cyclonus (and I wouldn't doubt, Galvatron) surely was supposed to be in SS86... When I've looked at the differences in the amount of molded details, he really encompasses a more simple, "animated" design. This isn't to suggest there weren't any design additions, I'm sure there are.
But look at these photos of him compared to ER Starscream.
Sure they're totally different characters, but again, look at the difference in the amount of molded details... It's not like there wasn't enough surface area on Cyclonus's lower legs to add extra lines, indentations, etc. This is especially true with his shoulders, and really his whole torso. But it's been left nice and clean (minus the 2 pegs), with just large, smooth, flat areas.








While Scourge has more detail than Cyclonus, most of it looks more purposeful and intentional imo...
Not all, but most. Where as with Starscream, there's a ton that kinda makes me think, "Huh... Okay... Kinda neat, but mostly unnecessary".



Grimlock is a figure who I don't think completely fits the aesthetic of SS86... He looks much more Siege/ER/Kingdom to me. Maybe not as much for the T-Rex mode, but in bot mode for sure.

Similar to all of that "extra stuff" of the seeker mold, there's a lot of that here with Grimlock.


This isn't even the best angle to show all of the details on his shoulder/arm.

One of the best examples imo is seen in his upper legs... Again, just my opinion, but really really unnecessary detailed molding. And I'm not saying it looks horrible, but it does again kinda have me thinking, "Huh... Okay... If Hastak is going for a more screen-accurate look, then why all of this?"
Not saying I wouldn't want anything to break-up the look of these surfaces, but this is a ton imo.




What will be interesting for me is seeing what we get with Galvatron, Slag, Wreck-gar and Rodimus Prime.

Feel like a broken record but ss86 wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for the inclusion of Beast Wars in WfC.

[Sabrblade]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

But isn't SS86 a sub-line of SS much like either Kingdom is of WFC or WFC itself is of Generations? I mean, just because SS86 is getting released, aren't we getting regular SS figures at the same time? At least restocks, because I've been seeing the Constructicons coming back into stores, but I guess that could be some wayward supplies finding their way home.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

But isn't SS86 a sub-line of SS much like either Kingdom is of WFC or WFC itself is of Generations? I mean, just because SS86 is getting released, aren't we getting regular SS figures at the same time? At least restocks, because I've been seeing the Constructicons coming back into stores, but I guess that could be some wayward supplies finding their way home.

Not exactly, what we call "SS86" and we treat as a separate sub-line, Hasbro is doing no such thing. "SS86" uses the same assortment codes as the regular Studio Series line (E0701 for Deluxe, E0702 for Voyager, E0703 for Leader), so the '86 figures are mixed in with the regular movie ones. By contrast, Siege, Earthrise and Kingdom each have their own assortment codes (Earthrise however has the quirk of reusing the UPC from Siege, leading to lack of clearances in stores).

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

But isn't SS86 a sub-line of SS much like either Kingdom is of WFC or WFC itself is of Generations? I mean, just because SS86 is getting released, aren't we getting regular SS figures at the same time? At least restocks, because I've been seeing the Constructicons coming back into stores, but I guess that could be some wayward supplies finding their way home.

Not exactly, what we call "SS86" and we treat as a separate sub-line, Hasbro is doing no such thing. "SS86" uses the same assortment codes as the regular Studio Series line (E0701 for Deluxe, E0702 for Voyager, E0703 for Leader), so the '86 figures are mixed in with the regular movie ones. By contrast, Siege, Earthrise and Kingdom each have their own assortment codes (Earthrise however has the quirk of reusing the UPC from Siege, leading to lack of clearances in stores).

Then why did they bother adding the "86" designation? Wouldn't it have been obvious what characters the figures represented just by their designs and the "Transformers: The Movie" printed on the boxes? Should have just kept it straight Studio Series, since they're taking up spots in the next waves.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

But isn't SS86 a sub-line of SS much like either Kingdom is of WFC or WFC itself is of Generations? I mean, just because SS86 is getting released, aren't we getting regular SS figures at the same time? At least restocks, because I've been seeing the Constructicons coming back into stores, but I guess that could be some wayward supplies finding their way home.

Not exactly, what we call "SS86" and we treat as a separate sub-line, Hasbro is doing no such thing. "SS86" uses the same assortment codes as the regular Studio Series line (E0701 for Deluxe, E0702 for Voyager, E0703 for Leader), so the '86 figures are mixed in with the regular movie ones. By contrast, Siege, Earthrise and Kingdom each have their own assortment codes (Earthrise however has the quirk of reusing the UPC from Siege, leading to lack of clearances in stores).

Then why did they bother adding the "86" designation? Wouldn't it have been obvious what characters the figures represented just by their designs and the "Transformers: The Movie" printed on the boxes? Should have just kept it straight Studio Series, since they're taking up spots in the next waves.

"A Bayverse with G1? Studio Series is RUINED FOREVER!!!"

At least the #86-## ID offers a form of separation between the two styles... on Hasbro's side. TakaraTomy just continues the standard numbering.

[Sabrblade]

Yeah, Studio Series 86 was never supposed to have existed, with all of its figures originally going to be in the third War for Cybertron Trilogy line before it wa decided to add in the Beast Wars toys. So if any toys are in the "wrong" line, it's all of the Studio Series 86 toys, while Cyclonus, Galvatron, Ultra Magnus, etc. are in the "right" line.

But isn't SS86 a sub-line of SS much like either Kingdom is of WFC or WFC itself is of Generations? I mean, just because SS86 is getting released, aren't we getting regular SS figures at the same time? At least restocks, because I've been seeing the Constructicons coming back into stores, but I guess that could be some wayward supplies finding their way home.

Not exactly, what we call "SS86" and we treat as a separate sub-line, Hasbro is doing no such thing. "SS86" uses the same assortment codes as the regular Studio Series line (E0701 for Deluxe, E0702 for Voyager, E0703 for Leader), so the '86 figures are mixed in with the regular movie ones. By contrast, Siege, Earthrise and Kingdom each have their own assortment codes (Earthrise however has the quirk of reusing the UPC from Siege, leading to lack of clearances in stores).

Then why did they bother adding the "86" designation? Wouldn't it have been obvious what characters the figures represented just by their designs and the "Transformers: The Movie" printed on the boxes? Should have just kept it straight Studio Series, since they're taking up spots in the next waves.

In addition to what JelZe said in the post just above mine here, what's funny is that, on Takara's side of the line, they actually are giving all of the SS86 figures their own normal Studio Series numbers instead of just "86-##".

nyway, if it wasn't for Beast Wars sharing its anniversary year with TFTM, and for Hasbro wanting to appease all of the BW fans who were butthurt over 2016 giving no love to BW for its 20th anniversary (while TFTM got plenty of love that year for its 30th anniversary), the third WFC line would have been fully dedicated to celebrating the 35th anniversary of TFTM with no 25th anniversary BW figures at all, allowing for Studio Series to continue being the live action movie Generations line that it had been up until recently when the animated movie figures were added to it after being pushed out of Kingdom by the BW figures.

[Rodimus Prime]

If that was the case, then WFC part 3 would have been called something else. It only makes sense to call it "Kingdom" if there are animals involved. But I guess that discussion belongs in the Kingdom thread. I wonder how soon or late into the planning of the lines it was decided to put BW into WFC and thus the TF:TM figures got shoved into SS.

[Sabrblade]

If that was the case, then WFC part 3 would have been called something else.

Indeed. The name was revealed pretty late in the game, so it likely came about after Hasbro had decided to include BW toys in the line and split the TFTM toys between it and Studio Series in order to celebrate both anniversaries instead of just TFTM's.

[Rtron]

Developing a toy line takes about a year. So it seems pretty dubious that the Beast Wars figures were a "last minute decision". Their placement in War for Cybertron might have been, but if they exist at this point in time in stores, concurrently with the 1986 anniversary figures, then the intention clearly has always been to celebrate both anniversaries at the same time. The only thing that could have been up in the air was how they were going to be packaged, although Rattrap being a core class figure and the existence of the fossilizers, plus the fact that they will feature on the Netflix show, all point to Kingdom always being part of the plan.

Same with the Studio Series 86 figures. They might have been shuffled around a bit between brandings to be able to properly market and sell the lineup, but for them to be in stores now, they must've been conceptualized during the first months of last year.

Do people really still think products can be just cobbled together in a couple of months?

[ZeroWolf]

Developing a toy line takes about a year. So it seems pretty dubious that the Beast Wars figures were a "last minute decision". Their placement in War for Cybertron might have been, but if they exist at they point in time, concurrently with the 1986 anniversary figures, then the intention clearly has always been to celebrate both anniversaries at the same time. The only thing that could have been up in the air was how they were going to be packaged, although Rattrap being a core class figure and the existence of the fossilizers, plus the fact that they will feature on the Netflix show, all point to Kingdom always being part of the plan.

Same with the Studio Series 86 figures. They might have been shuffled around a bit between brandings to be able to properly market and sell the lineup, but for them to be in stores now, they must've been conceptualized during the first months of last year.

Do people really still think products can be just cobbled together in a couple of months?

To be fair, it all depends on when the last minute decision was made. And I think the development time can be accelerated to some extent. Basically when the ideas for the Trilogy were being hashed at the movie toys were pitched for the third part and then someone pointed out that if they missed another BW anniversary they'd be under fire again. Then a year or so later they realised that a separate beast line would be hard to organise logistically with everything else so into WfC they went, splitting the movie toys up, and forcing them to pull SS86 out of their pocket, adding the 86 to the title to make sure they stood out from the rest.

This to me, seems a perfect logical explanation. Aside from leakers we'll probably never hear the true story about what went on anyway