The Energon Pub

[Kurona]

There's also, of course, the point of production to consider. Animating sophisticated CGI like this for... what's the average length of these movies, 2 and a half hours? on end is extremely taxing on the wallet. They've been able to give more screentime to the 'bots with each consecutive movie but focusing on humans and giving them screentime is also a budgetary reason as much as it is a so-people-can-relate-easier reason.

This too I just didn't mention it because I hope most people actually understand how difficult making believable Cgi like this with only half a year after filming to get it done before the movie comes out.

True, most people would understand this, but it's still important to mention as an underlying reason and cause for the sake of argument and to bring it to the front of peoples' minds in such a subject.
It's a bit like... how you know you're breathing but you never really think about it unless someone brings it up?

[william-james88]

Also removing humans isn't going to make the movies magically amazing either its the plot not the characters in the plot that need adjustments.

As always, great disussion points. And you are 100% right.

The Combiner Wars series gave us no humans, and it was all about the robots, and plus it was basing them on their g1 design.

All things fans have been asking for, for years.

And we know that wasnt enough.

[Kurona]

The main problem mostly lies in how humans are used in Transformers fiction - nothing interesting is really done with them and they feel forced in most of the time; situations have to be created for them to be relevant rather than their presence actually providing something for the plot and being woven into it. Animated, Beast Wars and IDW are the only times I really feel a human presence is pulled off well because there's actually something important going on and they affect the plot and narrative rather than just being forced to be there by studio mandates.
You've got humans in G1, Armada, these live-action Movies... but they don't really do anything as such, or at least anything that couldn't easily be achieved through other and more natural means. It's a bit like the effects of having to do something intrusive in the story for the sake of selling a toy but... sometimes even worse.

[Deadput]

As always, great disussion points. And you are 100% right.

The Combiner Wars series gave us no humans, and it was all about the robots, and plus it was basing them on their g1 design.

All things fans have been asking for, for years.

And we know that wasnt enough.

Designs and fan pandering (If you could call CW fan pandering) does not automatically make a great form of media because the entertainment is the important part and the basis of what we decide if its good in our opinion whether that be a super good story with deep characters or an action packed explosion fest with good guys shooting up villains like paper or a scary/thrilling movie that makes you tense up or jump in your seat or perhaps something so hilarious that you cant breath over your laughter while you choke and suffocate on your popcorn wait what?


A bit jumbled up this post is I'm typing my thoughts before I forget them which is my main problem with conversations.

[o.supreme]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

The main problem mostly lies in how humans are used in Transformers fiction - nothing interesting is really done with them and they feel forced in most of the time; situations have to be created for them to be relevant rather than their presence actually providing something for the plot and being woven into it. Animated, Beast Wars and IDW are the only times I really feel a human presence is pulled off well because there's actually something important going on and they affect the plot and narrative rather than just being forced to be there by studio mandates.
You've got humans in G1, Armada, these live-action Movies... but they don't really do anything as such, or at least anything that couldn't easily be achieved through other and more natural means. It's a bit like the effects of having to do something intrusive in the story for the sake of selling a toy but... sometimes even worse.

Beast Wars had humans?

Oh yeah, and Sari is my favorite humany thing in Transformers. (She's half human and half Cybertronian actually, but I digress. Still fills that roll.)

Kicker from Energon(?) was probably the worst human character ever in Transformers fiction.

[Stuartmaximus]

speaking of humans....here's Cade on Optimus

[Deadput]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

Well we are the fans there is no doubt about us being connected to them it's the main audience the "regular casuals" who want to see an action flick for example my family and to drive it home I will give you an opinion from my uncle about caring about them.


My Uncle thinks it's ridiculous that people can get so emotionally overinvested in non human characters in general mostly because their not real and are just computer animation.


And from what I can tell that seems to be a lot of other casual people's ways of seeing it just without saying so .

[Deadput]

The main problem mostly lies in how humans are used in Transformers fiction - nothing interesting is really done with them and they feel forced in most of the time; situations have to be created for them to be relevant rather than their presence actually providing something for the plot and being woven into it. Animated, Beast Wars and IDW are the only times I really feel a human presence is pulled off well because there's actually something important going on and they affect the plot and narrative rather than just being forced to be there by studio mandates.
You've got humans in G1, Armada, these live-action Movies... but they don't really do anything as such, or at least anything that couldn't easily be achieved through other and more natural means. It's a bit like the effects of having to do something intrusive in the story for the sake of selling a toy but... sometimes even worse.

Yes proper implementation is key when it comes to humans we can't have them soaking up attention like a sponge and doing crazy thing like taking down a Transformer with a handgun but we also cant just have them doing nothing on the side and just watching because that would be boring entertainment wise.


I think the best way to put humans in Transformers is if disguise actually means something for once since really outside of the beginning of a show or the movies disguise means nothing at all and really never has like make them actually need to be in vehicle forms in public and outside of base most of the time and only Transform when Decepticons attack and even then the Decepticons should also follow this rule hence needing humans or at least holograms to go out in public.

Also making the Transformers need to learn about Earth's culture and not simply the world wide web solving everything and the task for teaching the Autobots would fall onto the human(s) characters.

[Kurona]

The main problem mostly lies in how humans are used in Transformers fiction - nothing interesting is really done with them and they feel forced in most of the time; situations have to be created for them to be relevant rather than their presence actually providing something for the plot and being woven into it. Animated, Beast Wars and IDW are the only times I really feel a human presence is pulled off well because there's actually something important going on and they affect the plot and narrative rather than just being forced to be there by studio mandates.
You've got humans in G1, Armada, these live-action Movies... but they don't really do anything as such, or at least anything that couldn't easily be achieved through other and more natural means. It's a bit like the effects of having to do something intrusive in the story for the sake of selling a toy but... sometimes even worse.

Beast Wars had humans?

Oh yeah, and Sari is my favorite humany thing in Transformers. (She's half human and half Cybertronian actually, but I digress. Still fills that roll.)

Kicker from Energon(?) was probably the worst human character ever in Transformers fiction.

Beast Wars had the proto-humans in Season 3. It is a borderline case, admittedly, but there's more of a point to them being in the plot than most human characters

Sari was probably my favourite human sidekick too. The whole cybertronian origins thing is also what weaves her into the plot and why I think Animated done it well (and even before it was revealed, there was her whole thing with the key).

Agreed.


In any case, think this has veered off-topic a bit - this IS a thread for TLK after all and we're not specifically talking about their human characters aside from in a general sense. I think a general discussion thread on the place of human characters in Transformers would be interesting, though... as long as half the thread isn't just people saying they suck

[william-james88]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

I dont think so, we are all here because we love these giant robots to death. I dont think anyone got here because they were fans of Shia Lebeouf (but Patrick Dempsey maybe ).

[william-james88]

Beast Wars had the proto-humans in Season 3. It is a borderline case, admittedly, but there's more of a point to them being in the plot than most human characters

Season 2 as well. Lets not forget that Dinobot's most awesome moment in the entire series is all because of the presence of humans on the show

He died saving humanity!

[Va'al]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

I dont think so, we are all here because we love these giant robots to death. I dont think anyone got here because they were fans of Shia Lebeouf (but Patrick Dempsey maybe ).

(Actual Cannibal) Shia LaBoeuf has become so much more of recent. I'd probably watch him in something.

Also, TLK. Yeah. That's a thing that's happening.
Hopkins and suchnots.

[Kurona]

Beast Wars had the proto-humans in Season 3. It is a borderline case, admittedly, but there's more of a point to them being in the plot than most human characters

Season 2 as well. Lets not forget that Dinobot's most awesome moment in the entire series is all because of the presence of humans on the show

He died saving humanity!

Totally forgot that happened in Season 2 instead of 3
I actually feel bad about that because Code of Hero is genuinely one of the best Transformers Cartoon episodes ever produced.

[Deadput]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

I dont think so, we are all here because we love these giant robots to death. I dont think anyone got here because they were fans of Shia Lebeouf (but Patrick Dempsey maybe ).

(Actual Cannibal) Shia LaBoeuf has become so much more of recent. I'd probably watch him in something.

Also, TLK. Yeah. That's a thing that's happening.
Hopkins and suchnots.

He was pretty good in Fury as a supporting character.


He had a pretty nice beard there for some reason.

[Va'al]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

I dont think so, we are all here because we love these giant robots to death. I dont think anyone got here because they were fans of Shia Lebeouf (but Patrick Dempsey maybe ).

(Actual Cannibal) Shia LaBoeuf has become so much more of recent. I'd probably watch him in something.

Also, TLK. Yeah. That's a thing that's happening.
Hopkins and suchnots.

He was pretty good in Fury as a supporting character.


He had a pretty nice beard there for some reason.

Oh, I mean offscreen. He's a bizarre human being with an even more bizarre sense of artistic endeavour. Apparently a long way from 10 years ago.

(Fury was pants to me.)


But yes, Wahlberg hm? Explosions, hm? I like the idea of the maker being Solus Prime, however unfounded that rumour may be!

[Deadput]

Oh, I mean offscreen. He's a bizarre human being with an even more bizarre sense of artistic endeavour. Apparently a long way from 10 years ago.

(Fury was pants to me.)


But yes, Wahlberg hm? Explosions, hm? I like the idea of the maker being Solus Prime, however unfounded that rumour may be!

Ah yeah he does have a way to draw unique attention to his "odd" habits.

[Stuartmaximus]

I always relate more to the Transformers, and couldn't care less about the human characters...guess I'm the odd one out.

I dont think so, we are all here because we love these giant robots to death. I dont think anyone got here because they were fans of Shia Lebeouf (but Patrick Dempsey maybe ).

(Actual Cannibal) Shia LaBoeuf has become so much more of recent. I'd probably watch him in something.

Also, TLK. Yeah. That's a thing that's happening.
Hopkins and suchnots.

He was pretty good in Fury as a supporting character.


He had a pretty nice beard there for some reason.

Oh, I mean offscreen. He's a bizarre human being with an even more bizarre sense of artistic endeavour. Apparently a long way from 10 years ago.

(Fury was pants to me.)


But yes, Wahlberg hm? Explosions, hm? I like the idea of the maker being Solus Prime, however unfounded that rumour may be!

I think a number of people are drawing that conclusion coz of the female voiceover & Bee's hammer.

[Deadput]

But yes, Wahlberg hm? Explosions, hm? I like the idea of the maker being Solus Prime, however unfounded that rumour may be!

I think a number of people are drawing that conclusion coz of the female voiceover & Bee's hammer.

Ah yes because as we know Solus Prime is the only one to ever use a hammer I mean their just as rare and iconic as the fusion cannon right Tarn?




Sarcasm aside I think the Solus Prime thing is a bit ridiculous with the lack of proof besides Bumblebee using a hammer.

[Stuartmaximus]

I believe that it was brought up that there's no female TF's in this one! but they didn't say no alien females, so it could possibly be a female creator that isn't cybertronian

[Fires_Of_Inferno]

"The Last Knight shatters the core myths of the Transformers franchise, and redefines what it means to be a hero."

I doubt that. It's a movie about explosions and low camera angles on actresses backsides.

Not that I'm not going to see it, I like explosions and butts, but there's no way I'm expecting anything like what the quote says.

I've grown to accept the Transformers films for what they are. I like the designs of the robots (thought I wish they looked less humanoid), I like the action scenes now that most of the shaky-cam crap is gone and there's more focus on the robots. As for story line? The best story came from the first and third movies (not saying they were amazing stories, but I was ok with them), the other two were crap stories with a few good scenes in them. If the pattern holds than the story for this one might be acceptable.

Also: Murder Prime has grown on me.

EDIT: I should say that the story lines were either crap or good, to me. Other opinions may vary.

[Deadput]

I doubt that. It's a movie about explosions and low camera angles on actresses backsides.

That second part of what you said triggers me.

They did not do it in AOE and the main female character in this movie is a kid and there is only one other major female human character in the movie.


I'm pretty sure the film makers actually realized not to do that hence the absence of crude humor in AOE with the exception of the dumb Texas law thing in AOE that was forgotten after it happened.

[SlyTF1]

I already feel like I've been waiting for DAYS to see the extended version of the Superbowl spot, and it hasn't even been 12 hours yet. These next 2 days are going to kill me.

[Seibertron]

Michael Bay posted a letter to Transformers fans on his website, MichaelBay.com. Here's the letter along with an expanded writers' log line for your reading pleasure.

Only One World Will Survive: Theirs, or Ours
Posted on Feb 2, 2017



I've been living in this franchise for over 10 years now. For Transformers: The Last Knight, we put together a writers' room designed to greatly expand our mythology, integrating our films in a whole new way. Every movie will interlink.

It was a huge task to expand mythology from the beginning of the world throughout history. We had a great team of writers: Akiva Goldsman (A Beautiful Mind); Art Marcum & Matt Holloway (Iron Man); Ken Nolan (Black Hawk Down); Zak Penn (Ready Player One); Lindsey Beer (Barbie); Geneva Robertson-Dworet (Tomb Raider); Christina Hodson (Bumblebee); Steven DeKnight (Daredevil, Smallville); Jeff Pinkner (The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Lost); and Andrew Barrer & Gabriel Ferrari (Ant-Man).

Through the summer of 2015, they worked in a huge space on the Paramount lot, surrounded by over 10,000 concept images from the franchise's history: the movies, cartoons, and comic books. They had a life-size Bumblebee, a Megatron head, and many other props staring them down. We pulled from everything. It was a fan's dream room.

We brought in Transformers historians from Hasbro to educate them on where Transformers has been – so that they could figure out where it can go.

I can safely say that there's never been a Transformers film with the huge visual scope and expansive mythology as this movie, The Last Knight.

It's bittersweet for me. With every Transformers film, I've said it would be my last. I see the 120 million fans around the world who see these movies, the huge theme park lines to the ride and the amazing Make- A-Wish kids who visit my sets, and it somehow keeps drawing me back. I love doing these movies. This film was especially fun to shoot. But, this time might really be it. So I'm blowing this one out.

It's a final chapter and a new beginning. Here's the writers' log line:

The Last Knight shatters the core myths of the Transformers franchise, and redefines what it means to be a hero. Humans and Transformers are at war, Optimus Prime is gone. The key to saving our future lies buried in the secrets of the past, in the hidden history of Transformers on Earth. Saving our world falls upon the shoulders of an unlikely alliance: Cade Yeager (Mark Wahlberg); Bumblebee; an English Lord (Sir Anthony Hopkins); and an Oxford Professor (Laura Haddock).

There comes a moment in everyone's life when we are called upon to make a difference.

In Transformers: The Last Knight, the hunted will become heroes. Heroes will become villains. Only one world will survive: theirs, or ours.

Transformers: the Last Knight opens nationwide on June 23rd, 2017. Check out the Super Bowl "Big Game" trailer below.

[Insurgent]

Dammit Grimlock, stop blowing up the grass!