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Rated X wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Rated X wrote:How come every other country gets this set in brick and mortar retail bus the US has to go through BBTS and have it shipped? Thats messed up Hasbro...

You'd prefer the uncertainty of finding it in a store over the certainty of buying it online? And BBTS shipping is only $4, that's hardly a deal breaker when you're already spending $100. Granted, it sold out quickly, but it gives those of us without a nearby TRU a fighting chance.

Well you gotta understand I live in Miami, not some small town in the middle of nowhere. I have 3 toys r us fairly close to me and another 3 or 4 under 30 minutes away in clear traffic. Same thing with walmarts and targets.

I live in Tampa and have one TRU, four Walmarts, and three Targets near me, as well as another TRU, five other Targets, and four other Walmarts in areas that require further driving distance but aren't too unreasonably far away to get to. Yet, despite my living in a populated area filled with all of those stores, they don't always get the new stuff out when they're released to stores, and all of these stores are guilty of shelfwarming plenty of stuff. The nearest Walmart to me is still sitting on pegs and shelves full of Wave 1 and Wave 2 Titans Return Deluxes and has continued to not have any later wave Deluxes since none of the Wave 1-2 Deluxes are selling.

I never saw the Chaos on Velocitron set at either of the two TRUs I can get to, never even saw an empty spot reserved for it on the shelves, it was as though the never carried it to begin with.

It doesn't matter that you and I both live in sizable cities (in the same state, no less) instead of "some small town in the middle of nowhere". What matters is the local distribution. Yours may sound nice but mine's terribly slipshod. It's why I used to refer to my profile location as "Florida, the Neglected State".

HTS has Trypticon's listing up (plus new TLK stuff). Coming soon. If you can get that 20pct coupon to work, basically same as the TRU BOGO, with less hassle.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Rated X wrote:How come every other country gets this set in brick and mortar retail bus the US has to go through BBTS and have it shipped? Thats messed up Hasbro...

You'd prefer the uncertainty of finding it in a store over the certainty of buying it online? And BBTS shipping is only $4, that's hardly a deal breaker when you're already spending $100. Granted, it sold out quickly, but it gives those of us without a nearby TRU a fighting chance.

Well you gotta understand I live in Miami, not some small town in the middle of nowhere. I have 3 toys r us fairly close to me and another 3 or 4 under 30 minutes away in clear traffic. Same thing with walmarts and targets.

I live in Tampa and have one TRU, four Walmarts, and three Targets near me, as well as another TRU, five other Targets, and four other Walmarts in areas that require further driving distance but aren't too unreasonably far away to get to. Yet, despite my living in a populated area filled with all of those stores, they don't always get the new stuff out when they're released to stores, and all of these stores are guilty of shelfwarming plenty of stuff. The nearest Walmart to me is still sitting on pegs and shelves full of Wave 1 and Wave 2 Titans Return Deluxes and has continued to not have any later wave Deluxes since none of the Wave 1-2 Deluxes are selling.

I never saw the Chaos on Velocitron set at either of the two TRUs I can get to, never even saw an empty spot reserved for it on the shelves, it was as though the never carried it to begin with.

It doesn't matter that you and I both live in sizable cities (in the same state, no less) instead of "some small town in the middle of nowhere". What matters is the local distribution. Yours may sound nice but mine's terribly slipshod. It's why I used to refer to my profile location as "Florida, the Neglected State".

Well I cant speak much on distribution. Ive seen some shelf warmers, but for the most part we get everything but it takes patience. I got impatient with shuffler and repugnus and bought them on ebay. A week later they were at every tru. I dont mind something being available on bbts for the people who cant find it in stores. But it needs to be available in stores for the people who can get out to buy them. I used to be a huge bbts buyer until florida started charging online sales tax on companies who make over a set amount of profit a year. I switched to tfsource because they dont hit that mark whatever it is so no sales tax plus free ship over 150 which you can strategize with the stack feature. But yeah only bbts for us when canada gets it in retail aint cool man. Shouldn't North America be North America when it comes to sales options? I think it should.

Absolutely loving Full-Tilt!!

Emerje wrote:

Rated X wrote:How come every other country gets this set in brick and mortar retail bus the US has to go through BBTS and have it shipped? Thats messed up Hasbro...

You'd prefer the uncertainty of finding it in a store over the certainty of buying it online? And BBTS shipping is only $4, that's hardly a deal breaker when you're already spending $100. Granted, it sold out quickly, but it gives those of us without a nearby TRU a fighting chance.

Now, as for the Targetmaster discussion, I mentioned this in another thread, but I feel like the rumored new subscription service would be the most likely place for these. If Arcee really is an example of just how far they're willing to go (new arms, new car hood, two new Titan Masters) then it's clear they're willing to go all out on these beyond new paint and swapping around TMs. I'm not entirely sure Arcee was something they planned from the beginning, she feels more like something they came up with later due to fan demand.

If that's the case then I could see Crosshairs from Kup quite easily with no real changes aside from a new face. People who think the new Orion Pax looks too much like Crosshairs already should really compare the two.




Only thing they really have in common is the lower legs and chest and even that part is mostly translucent blue. And in alt mode Orion is mostly red while Crosshairs is mostly blue. That's to say nothing of all the black that isn't on Orion at all. Add some toy accurate tampographs and the two will have little in common.

Pointblank from Hot Rod really is ideal. Would just need a new spoiler section and you're done if you can forgive him having exhaust pipes.

Sureshot would probably have to be a retooled Chromedome with a new chest and spoiler unless they have an unused Sureshot mold already made.

And where Arcee comes with a diecast Magnus TM these three can come with their proper Targetmaters courtesy of Takara Tomy.

Emerje

I just had a brilliant little bit of inspiration. How about a retool/repaint of Full-Tilt as Sureshot? Change the transformation around to put the dome on his chest instead of his back, add a spoiler to the alt mode, and use some actual paint apps, and voila!

william-james88 wrote:

Burn wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:I honestly don't recall anywhere other than America, Canada and Asia getting the TR Boxsets so far.

Australia's got em. A local collectables retailer was able to get the exclusive distribution.

ummm...wot?

Yeah, premium collectables is getting the seige of cybertron set.

ohhhhhhhh. I think you meant "A local scam artist pretending to be a collectables retailer was able to get the exclusive distribution".

Trust me, TRUST ME, YOU DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT SCUMBAG. If you manage to get your goods, you're either his best mate, or he made a mistake.

Burn wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Burn wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:I honestly don't recall anywhere other than America, Canada and Asia getting the TR Boxsets so far.

Australia's got em. A local collectables retailer was able to get the exclusive distribution.

ummm...wot?

Yeah, premium collectables is getting the seige of cybertron set.

ohhhhhhhh. I think you meant "A local scam artist pretending to be a collectables retailer was able to get the exclusive distribution".

Trust me, TRUST ME, YOU DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT SCUMBAG. If you manage to get your goods, you're either his best mate, or he made a mistake.

Sorry to hear. Well, it sucks they got (or appears to judging on the price they listed it as) that exclusive then. I can always buy it for you and sell it back to you at cost when it comes to Canada, if you want. Shipping wont be cheap though, but I am pretty sure it will be cheaper than robot kingdom

With regard to earlier comments about distribution, yes I get it. I am someone who wholeheartedly prefers to get things from B&M, but I do recognize the value of online ordering if I cant get it any other way. Its just that because I'm set in my ways, I've just seen an odd shift.

I get that a lot of the media I want is Niche, so I have to get most of my DVD & Blu Ray from Amazon etc... But when I stopped collecting Transformers initially back in 2005, up to that point, the idea of *not seeing an item* in the store, or missing an item never even occurred to me, every figure from every line always made it to Wal Mart, Target, and TRU (plus a few other stores that now no longer exist).

It's true that exclusives are a pain to some degree, but at least we as fans are usually informed in advance. I don't have to waste gas running all over town looking for the *Siege* set, because I know its exclusive to BBTS, and unlike TFCC, there is not an insane cost to join the club, and only vague windows of time in which you can join. and the inexpensive shipping is normal for BBTS, at least for U.S. residents.

What irks me is that Box Sets that were supposed to have General Distribution in the United States (CW G2 sets, Victorion, Computron etc...) never happened. Sure I got them all by online means one way or another, but it would have been nice if Hasbro just came out (like they did with LioKaiser) and just say they were available online only. (and no I'm not counting the rare pop-up in market 6 stores as actually being meant for mass US Distribution).

So I guess the question is...Whereas 10 years ago, it was pretty much guaranteed I could find any toy from any TF line at one point or another...Is Transformers (specifically Generations) a Niche thing? Or are certain productions within Generations considered Niche?

I mean with all the effort put into developing Trypticon, you would think Hasbro would promote the heck out of it. But we all pretty much know in the United States the only way to get one at B&M will be TRU. It is also available online at TRU & will be soon at HTS. Its not labeled as a TRU exclusive like the TLK Cybertron repaint, but it might as well be since you wont find Trypticon at Target or Wal-Mart in the U.S., that's for sure.

One thing I am seeing is a lot of redistribution of TR. I'm seeing a lot more of wave 3 now, which seemed to come & go quickly in the early spring. I'm thinking that basically between now and end of the year, we will get the rest of wave 5, and a re-ship of most of the waves, so hopefully even the tail-ending Slugslinger will not be this rare thing everyone is paying $50 or more for on eBay.

o.supreme wrote:I mean with all the effort put into developing Trypticon, you would think Hasbro would promote the heck out of it. But we all pretty much know in the United States the only way to get one at B&M will be TRU. It is also available online at TRU & will be soon at HTS. Its not labeled as a TRU exclusive like the TLK Cybertron repaint, but it might as well be since you wont find Trypticon at Target or Wal-Mart in the U.S., that's for sure.

For the cases of Titan class toys, it strikes me as Target and Walmart simply not wanting to carry Transformers figures that are that big and expensive, for fear that they won't sell as well as the less expensive figures. A case in point for this is how several of my Targets still have the RID 2015 Power Surge Optimus Prime from last year sitting on their shelves unsold, and that's a figure that's only $50-$60 compared to the $100-$150 of Titan class toys. Whereas TRU is used to carrying large and expensive items like Titan class toys, so they're more willing to carry them than Target and Walmart are.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I mean with all the effort put into developing Trypticon, you would think Hasbro would promote the heck out of it. But we all pretty much know in the United States the only way to get one at B&M will be TRU. It is also available online at TRU & will be soon at HTS. Its not labeled as a TRU exclusive like the TLK Cybertron repaint, but it might as well be since you wont find Trypticon at Target or Wal-Mart in the U.S., that's for sure.

For the cases of Titan class toys, it strikes me as Target and Walmart simply not wanting to carry Transformers figures that are that big and expensive, for fear that they won't sell as well as the less expensive figures. A case in point for this is how several of my Targets still have the RID 2015 Power Surge Optimus Prime from last year sitting on their shelves unsold, and that's a figure that's only $50-$60 compared to the $100-$150 of Titan class toys. Whereas TRU is used to carrying large and expensive items like Titan class toys, so they're more willing to carry them than Target and Walmart are.

I think another part of it is the general shift from B&M to online sales for lower overhead costs versus the sheer size of the titan class figures. They take up easily the same amount of shelf space as 3-4 other toys that would be cheaper, but easier to move. If you are getting a titan, that is likely either 4 on your shelf at $150 each ($600 total, max). Now switch that to leader class 4 wide and 5 deep in that space. $45 each x 20 would be $900 total and easier to move.
TRU being toy specific kind of has to stock the titans, especially if they know they will be the only ones. Walmart, Target and the rest can offer them online if they want, but are better off stocking easier to move items in stores. It just make more sense for them as an overall strategy.

Sabrblade wrote:For the cases of Titan class toys, it strikes me as Target and Walmart simply not wanting to carry Transformers figures that are that big and expensive, for fear that they won't sell as well as the less expensive figures. A case in point for this is how several of my Targets still have the RID 2015 Power Surge Optimus Prime from last year sitting on their shelves unsold, and that's a figure that's only $50-$60 compared to the $100-$150 of Titan class toys. Whereas TRU is used to carrying large and expensive items like Titan class toys, so they're more willing to carry them than Target and Walmart are.

Perhaps, but I could swear I've seen Lego sets at Target & Walmart above the $100 price point on occasion.

o.supreme wrote:Perhaps, but I could swear I've seen Lego sets at Target & Walmart above the $100 price point on occasion.

You have, but I've heard that is likely more due to Lego's requirements than the stores preferences where Hasbro gives the stores a bit more freedom to decide what to stock.

For anyone wanting the Titan figures through a BM store, watch and see if Trypticon hits Walmart.com and order him through there Ship to Store. That amway you have a place to take him back to as needed.

o.supreme wrote:Perhaps, but I could swear I've seen Lego sets at Target & Walmart above the $100 price point on occasion.

They do but there are 3 things that differ from Titan Class figures:

1. Popularity: either in terms of the brand itself (and yes I do believe Lego as a toy brand sells better than TFs) or of the properties. A star wars lego set of over 100$ regarding a recent film is much more popular than a Transformers character from the 80s.
2. Space: those 100$ lego sets take up less space than the fort max boxes I saw.

Although I truly believe that number 1 is more important. Lego sells better and thus gets stocked better. The lego section at any retailer is always bigger than the TF section.

o.supreme wrote:So I guess the question is...Whereas 10 years ago, it was pretty much guaranteed I could find any toy from any TF line at one point or another...Is Transformers (specifically Generations) a Niche thing? Or are certain productions within Generations considered Niche?

yes, I 100% believe that a G2 redeco of a combiner (especially one that was never released like Menasor) is very very niche.

They shelfwarmed massively in canada and I am sure all the US retailers would have dreaded that. I am sure they much preffer these gather dust in a warehouse and advertized online where collectors are than in a big store taking away the shelfspace of items that could sell better to kids and their parents.

Also, there are some toys the states didnt get at retail and that were missed. Lots if you go back to the 80s. like all those european exclusive TFs. Plus, to go closer to the era you are talking about, Battle Unicorn was missed at US retail as well and you could only get it at BBTS. And that was supposed to be a mass released toy. Plus a little later, there was a similar debacle with the first edition prime toys and the later wave animated toys that were initially supposed to be mass released.

All I mean to say is that none of this is new. it has been present from the begining, was present 15 years ago at the midpoint, and is still present now.

william-james88 wrote:Also, there are some toys the states didnt get at retail and that were missed. Lots if you go back to the 80s. like all those european exclusive TFs.

But alas, they were never meant for release in the United States, like the Japanese exclusives, so they were not technically *missed*

william-james88 wrote:Plus, to go closer to the era you are talking about, Battle Unicorn was missed at US retail as well and you could only get it at BBTS. And that was supposed to be a mass released toy. Plus a little later, there was a similar debacle with the first edition prime toys and the later wave animated toys that were initially supposed to be mass released.

I skipped BM entirely, and went straight to CR/RiD but I do recall seeing Battle Unicorn in store. Had I known it was rare, I guess I would have got it...hindsight and all that...As for Animated & Prime, that was during my 10 year departure, so I would not have noticed. The last lines I was into- Armada, Energon, or even some of the later Alternators that I know were hard to find for some people, I had no problem with.

All I mean to say is that none of this is new. it has been present from the beginning, was present 15 years ago at the midpoint, and is still present now.

Well, For me the earliest case I can find goes back to around 2007, but since I was out until 2015 I would not know until then. Why distribution has gotten so bad in the last few years is really a mystery, and nobody seems to know, or if anybody does, they aren't explaining. The last conversation I had with someone at Hasbro Customer service was asking why the Kre-O line had been discontinued at all US mass market, but new RiD15 Kre-O sets were in Canada , Brazil etc... I went thourgh 3 people, (CS Rep, their supervisor, and the supervisors Manager...) none of which could give me an answer...and to this day product is still popping up in places like Dollar General without any rhyme or reason...

But I do appreciate the honest commentary on TF Generations being a Niche product, I guess its something I'll just have to accept is going to be a more difficult find from now on.

o.supreme wrote:But I do appreciate the honest commentary on TF Generations being a Niche product, I guess its something I'll just have to accept is going to be a more difficult find from now on.

Well anything expensive not supported by a current media related product would be niche to me. And I didnt say TF Generations is niche, but the more expensive items were. Cheap toys always sell one way or another, thats why the discount market is so alive in North America.

In any case, the comparisons between eras arent entirely fair since the distribution system has changed. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more product coming out every year. Back with Unicron Trilogy you had your show line and that was mainly it. But now you have a show line, a movie line and a classics line all in the same space (not counting the expensive niche products talked above). And since they are tied to similar ID numbers, depending on the retailer, it is easy for stores to completely miss a certain wave. All they see is that they have that class/line on the shelf and thats good enough. Doesnt explain everything, but it explains why some stores skip certain waves.

Also, just so you know Battle Unicorn was rare at B&M, but it shelfwarmed terrible online at BBTS, just like those G2 boxsets. Thats why I used it, it was a perfect example. So buying one then would be the same as me buying a G2 boxset now. It wont go up in value because I found it at B&M retail instead of online.

william-james88 wrote:In any case, the comparisons between eras arent entirely fair since the distribution system has changed. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more product coming out every year. Back with Unicron Trilogy you had your show line and that was mainly it. But now you have a show line, a movie line and a classics line all in the same space (not counting the expensive niche products talked above).

Hmmm. That makes me think, actually... with the added responsibility of needing to put out so many lines compared to the past - and especially compounded by how streamlined Generations has been of late, how we're getting a Movie Masterpiece line, AND how we're getting a movie every year now rather than every 2-3 years - is that perhaps why we're getting 'empty' Waves like TR Wave 6 and comparatively fewer boxsets? Maybe there's just that much product Hasbro needs to put out that they just can't cope and have to cut out a few things in pre-existing lines.

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:In any case, the comparisons between eras arent entirely fair since the distribution system has changed. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more product coming out every year. Back with Unicron Trilogy you had your show line and that was mainly it. But now you have a show line, a movie line and a classics line all in the same space (not counting the expensive niche products talked above).

Hmmm. That makes me think, actually... with the added responsibility of needing to put out so many lines compared to the past - and especially compounded by how streamlined Generations has been of late, how we're getting a Movie Masterpiece line, AND how we're getting a movie every year now rather than every 2-3 years - is that perhaps why we're getting 'empty' Waves like TR Wave 6 and comparatively fewer boxsets? Maybe there's just that much product Hasbro needs to put out that they just can't cope and have to cut out a few things in pre-existing lines.

The Last Wave in any run has historically been under ordered by the Retailers themselves. Hasbro can't rely on putting out new product in that wave because the Retailers are waiting to order Prime Wars W1, on top of whatever Movie Stock and whatever else. In one ways, yes, the number of sub brands being put out by Hasbro compounds this, but the end of armada was stomped by the new Energon Stuff, and Cybertron got to shelves in place of some Energon goodies, so a lot of it is just Retailers pre-emptying their sales. If Hasbro loads the last wave with Figures we want, then doesn't get them to retailers, they face the Wrath of Disgruntled Collectors. But if they don't make an effort to put something in that wave, they guarentee that retailers won't buy it. So we get Slugslinger, whom they could turn around and release as a filler in PW if they had to, and some rerelease dudes that we aren't all dieing to get.

With Generations, it seems to me like Hasbro could get around this issue by bleeding the lines together. Generations is after all still the same line, and none of us care what SLugslinger's box says, or whether he was released in TR or PW. Obviously, they can't do this by jumping from RID15 to whatever comes next, however

Come to think of it, I only think there was ever only one line at a time for the majority of TF existence (at least in the U.S.). Anyone else here use unicron.com as reference? It seems to be a pretty good quick reference guide for the toys, but it does need updating.

Anyway...aside from the normal "transition period" where you might see toys from one line bleed over to the next...

First in 1997 you had Machine Wars along side Beast Wars. IIRC MW was just a smaller sub line. I only vaguely remember seeing these at Kay-Bee, never purchased any...

Then in 2002 you had the commemorative series line. The first time since G2 that original series Transformers had been reissued in the United States


Then in 2003, along side the main line (Armada), there was Alternators, and the first TF Universe toys. This was the first time repaints/reissues from various different lines came back as "nostalgic"

From this point on there seems like there have always been 3 or more lines going at any one time.

Imagine, in time, when the nostalgia level "doubles over" on itself, and we'll have a new Original Series inspired line, a new BW inspired line, a new Unicron Trilogy inspired Line, a new *current* line, and a new Movie line all going at the same time... .

I know lines like Generations were supposed to kind of curb this, or evenly distribute things, but with the Prime Wars trilogy being so heavily OS inspired (which I love btw...)...My idea of having a heavily BW inspired next line might not be so good. The next Generations line might truly need to be multi-generational...

Orion Looks rather like Animated Optimus Prime's Cybertron mode to me - which is nice.

I think that with the Prime Wars trilogy being so overloaded with G1 characters, we've gotten an ideal representation of most of the first few years of G1 characters -- also accounting for lines like Thrilling 30 and Reveal the Shield. So with at least one version of those characters 'out of the way' as such, that should pave the way open for future Generations lines to be multi-generational. Especially when you account for other factors like how a lot of older collectors now grew up with Beast Wars or Armada instead of G1. It's been decades since those aired; fans of those have grown up.

o.supreme wrote:First in 1997 you had Machine Wars along side Beast Wars. IIRC MW was just a smaller sub line. I only vaguely remember seeing these at Kay-Bee, never purchased any...

Machine Wars was a KB exclusive so that doesn't really count.

Then in 2002 you had the commemorative series line. The first time since G2 that original series Transformers had been reissued in the United States

And the Commemorative line was a TRU exclusive (aside from a couple that were slipped into other stores) so that doesn't really count either.

But yeah, it was certainly the case from 2003 on.

Emerje

Kurona wrote:Especially when you account for other factors like how a lot of older collectors now grew up with Beast Wars or Armada instead of G1. It's been decades since those aired; fans of those have grown up.

I just hope they notice it, one day.. I'm less optimistic than you.

I agree I would like too see them "Experiment" with Characters who were in a TV show but never got a toy there is several examples of that in Cybertron for example - a Scout class Signal Lancer would be good. Also Scourge's pals from the beast Planet.

G1 isn't tapped out yet - we could still do with a Devcon (original mould) and a Death Cobra as well as a couple more Combiner Wars Compatible limbs from that era.
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If Beast Wars Masterpiece sell well I can see Takara will keep making them - For example surely something like a Masterpiece Transmetal Rattrap or Megatron would be more Popular than a Masterpiece Hoist would.

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As I said before though I'd not mind at all to see Fizzle and Sizzle and Legends class either. I'd also quite welcome the return of G1 Legion class - the focus moved to that scale also may free up the Deluxe class a bit for other things. It would certainly be interesting to see if they could make an Armada Sideswipe slight- redesign that was a much better toy than the original was.

RAR wrote:It would certainly be interesting to see if they could make an Armada Sideswipe slight- redesign that was a much better toy than the original was.

On my side, I'm asking only one thing : An Energon Rodimus which looks like the box art.