The Energon Pub

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Myself I'm just salty we aren't getting Blitzwing's other two faces. I mean yeah there's Shapeways but it's still a missed opportunity.

The Original Blitzwing only had one face.

The original Blitzwing wasnt a headmaster.

Obviously, but there is a running theme in TR. What would be the purpose of 3 faces on Blitzwing?

To add in traits from other universes. It wouldn't even be like T30 where the gimmick, arguably, actively harmed the toy. This would just be taking advantage of a gimmick that's already there for other reasons to give fans of Animated a very cool feature through the Titan Master class. I know it's the only thing that'd convince me to get Blitzwing.

Kurona wrote:To add in traits from other universes.

No, that's ok, they tried to muck things up with Armada Megatron, and Tidal Wave, we don't need any more of that, at least until PotP is over. After that great, go wild! I'll be done collecting for a while at that point, I'm thinking.

Kurona wrote:This would just be taking advantage of a gimmick that's already there for other reasons to give fans of Animated a very cool feature through the Titan Master class. I know it's the only thing that'd convince me to get Blitzwing.

If some fans want a new Animated Blitzwing, that's great, just wait for the next toyline to capitalize on TFA nostalgia, no need to pollute TR.

I don't really see any reason to wait.

o.supreme wrote:

Kurona wrote:To add in traits from other universes.

No, that's ok, they tried to muck things up with Armada Megatron, and Tidal Wave, we don't need any more of that, at least until PotP is over. After that great, go wild! I'll be done collecting for a while at that point, I'm thinking.

Kurona wrote:This would just be taking advantage of a gimmick that's already there for other reasons to give fans of Animated a very cool feature through the Titan Master class. I know it's the only thing that'd convince me to get Blitzwing.

If some fans want a new Animated Blitzwing, that's great, just wait for the next toyline to capitalize on TFA nostalgia, no need to pollute TR.

You're forgetting somethings. Titans Return is not the Toyline. Its the Subtitle. The toyline is Generations, and Generations is intended to be all encompassing. Yes, it tends to be 70% G1 and 25% G1 Derivitves in other 'verses (G2 Prime) but there is 0 reason for it to not do anything else. None. That's not polluting a line that was intended from its foundation to be a Catch-all anyway.

Personally, I have no love or hate for the Animated Blitzwing homage. Not something I have to have on every Blitzwing. Arguable, the effect was detrimental to the previous Genrations figure not because of anything related to Animated, but because all parts of that toy had some serious QA issues. When you are talking about a Toy Line where the main gimmick is changing their faces it seems like multiple heads would be right at home.

Why would non-G1 characters in TR be "polluting" it? I mean, it's not like the line is called Generations or anything.

Flashwave wrote:The toyline is Generations, and Generations is intended to be all encompassing.

Which was only the case for a single year of the line's entire eight-year existence: 2014, and that was because that year was the Transformers brand's 30th anniversary.

Same with the 2008-2009 Universe line. Only in 2009 (the brand's 25th anniversary) was the line all-encompassing. 2008 was nothing but updates to G1 characters just like the original Classics line.

As much as many of us would like it to be so, the all-encompassing line-ups for anniversary years are not the staple by which all years of the CHUG lines adhere to.

Why would it even be a problem in the first place, either? It'd be like, the easiest thing to ignore if you didn't want it to exist. Just put the other two TMs in a box, or put them on someone else - heck, have 'em man some of the seat-guns that I'm sure most people (myself included) have decided to leave off the figures they came with, as extra genericons! They literally wouldn't have to "exist" if you didn't want them to.

(Admittedly though, much as I adore the idea, I'd have actually been pretty bothered if they released 'Wing otherwise unchanged with 3 TMs; then there wouldn't be anywhere for them all to go on him. I like my Titan Masters to have places to be!)

If I were to be honest, I'm glad they didn't give him extra Titan Masters with those faces because I don't want G1 Blitzwing to have Animated Blitzwing's split-personality face-changing schtick, because then it wouldn't make Animated Blitzwing as special as he is anymore.

Although I think blitzwing looks great repainted as flywheels, I'd have thought a remolded overlord might be closer to the duocon gimmick. Flip the thorsoaround so the cockpit forms the chest...

Size is An issue of course, but we're no strangers to oddly resized characters in their moder incarnations.

Remember getting battletrap as a kid and not being overly impressed... he grew on me and made sure to get flywheels too..

please no. just ship cases of blitzwing and octane please. there are already too many optimus, megatron, and broadside shelfwarming.

Sabrblade wrote:If I were to be honest, I'm glad they didn't give him extra Titan Masters with those faces because I don't want G1 Blitzwing to have Animated Blitzwing's split-personality face-changing schtick, because then it wouldn't make Animated Blitzwing as special as he is anymore.

That's a fair point, though I'd argue that since we're not getting a new Animated Blitzwing figure any time soon (I feel pretty confident in saying that) it'd be nice to see an homage if nothing else. From a fiction perspective it wouldn't even have to be split personality - just say Blitz managed to recruit/partner with three TMs that all give him slightly different powers.

(As a smaller example, also coincidentally from Animated, take Ratchet's EMP generator. I wouldn't say it devalued Animated Ratchet's character by also giving the device to Movie Ratchet, and if anything I think people appreciated having a little homage to a character they liked from a different continuity.)

....but... I haven't found Blitzwing yet

Qwan wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:If I were to be honest, I'm glad they didn't give him extra Titan Masters with those faces because I don't want G1 Blitzwing to have Animated Blitzwing's split-personality face-changing schtick, because then it wouldn't make Animated Blitzwing as special as he is anymore.

That's a fair point, though I'd argue that since we're not getting a new Animated Blitzwing figure any time soon

Since I'm still content with my original Animated Blitzwing, I don't see that as an issue from my standpoint.

Qwan wrote:From a fiction perspective it wouldn't even have to be split personality

It would still be a face-changing gimmick, which was more what I was trying to focus on (I should have made it clearer that I mentioned the split-personality part as merely descriptive fluff for more important concept of the face-changing gimmick in and of itself).

Black Bumblebee wrote:....but... I haven't found Blitzwing yet

I wouldn't worry yet. I have seen no signs that the most recent wave has made it to Indiana yet. Your area may still have product coming. Remember,t he Coastal areas get their stuff in first cause they are on the coast. Those of us in the middle have to wait for distribution to catch up.

Also, BBTS JUST dropped my Pre-Order for Blitz and Octoane, so if thats anything to go by, the shipment just got to Wisconsin this week. BBTS doesn't have to downsort their product to regional and local hubs; as soon as its in their warehouse they can start shipping out, so I would guesstimate that the Midwest ought to be getting them in stores in 2-3 weeks.

It's a shame Titans Return has to end already. It was such a fun subline that gave us a lot of great figures. And it feels like only yesterday wave 1 started to hit retailers and I was struggling to track down my Scourge. Geez, where does the time go?

It's also a shame we didn't get all of the Autobot Master Warriors. I really had my heart set on having a complete modern set of those guys. Maybe in the future, but for now we aren't expecting squat. What a bummer.

The only TR figs that I want but haven't gotten yet are Ramhorn, Windblade, and Hot Rod. And I should be able to have 'em all within the next few weeks. After that I'll be able to save for Power Of The Primes and whatever's in store for us next!

DestronMirage22 wrote:It's a shame Titans Return has to end already. It was such a fun subline that gave us a lot of great figures. And it feels like only yesterday wave 1 started to hit retailers and I was struggling to track down my Scourge. Geez, where does the time go?

It's also a shame we didn't get all of the Autobot Master Warriors. I really had my heart set on having a complete modern set of those guys. Maybe in the future, but for now we aren't expecting squat. What a bummer.

The only TR figs that I want but haven't gotten yet are Ramhorn, Windblade, and Hot Rod. And I should be able to have 'em all within the next few weeks. After that I'll be able to save for Power Of The Primes and whatever's in store for us next!

I know, right? Combiner Wars was fun and pushed me into more "hardcore" collecting, but TR just has this je ne sais quoi that's given me some of the most joyous fun I've had collecting Transformers since back when I first discovered the franchise. By this point I have every single mainline Deluxe released in the line save Slugslinger, and honestly looking back I don't regret getting a single one - nor any of the (slightly less 100%'ed) other figures I've bought. Honestly if there was one single figure I regretted getting it'd be Blaster, but even he's a good figure and fun enough that I don't feel disappointed to have him - he's just a little less fantastic for his price than the other figures I've snagged, IMO.

All around, I think it's safe to say TR has been a smash hit; and while there may have been some key players that went missing over the course of the line (coughHorrorconscoughWHERESMYNIGHTBEATcough), what we got was honestly all-round incredible. Much as I hate to see it go, I can't help but appreciate what it gave us while it was around. ...Ah geez, look at me getting emotional over a line of children's plastic toys. I hadn't realized I was such a delicate flower.

As for unobtained toys from the line, all I still need to get from the mainline (i.e. that I haven't 'bought' yet, I still have some other things on preorder) is Ramhorn, Shuffler, Seaspray, Cosmos and Slugslinger. On top of that there's a couple exclusive or box-set figures like Laser Prime and Fastclash (maybe Nautica and Arcee too? I dunno), but even then that's... what, less than 10 figures? It feels really weird having been able to basically get everything I wanted from this line, especially when "what I wanted" was such a large proportion of the product available. Even though the line itself is finishing up now, I get the feeling I'll be having fond memories of TR for a long time.

Alright fans I got my e-mail confirmation from BBTS today that my Siege on Cybertron set was shipped out Wednesday so the wait is almost over!

Qwan wrote:I know, right? Combiner Wars was fun and pushed me into more "hardcore" collecting, but TR just has this je ne sais quoi that's given me some of the most joyous fun I've had collecting Transformers since back when I first discovered the franchise.

Same for me, I already told it several times on the forum.
I don't know if it gaves me the most joyous fun, but I found back sensations that I didn't had since end of Cybertron/galaxy Force.

Except I'm also trying to find what is this "je ne sais quoi". I think it's several factors :

- A line wide gimmick, which helps creating the experience of a real full new line, contrary to all the renames of generations stuff. (without the package, what is the difference between a Universe 2.0, a classic and a T30 ?), and not a small gimmick like thermal sticker, but something deeply anchored on all size classes, from the titan master vehicules to the merging bases.

- A very very well engineered gimmick, with few bad impact on the toys. (I think the only damage of the whole line being Galvatron's crest).

- An increase of quality and engeenering on the toys. Maybe it's only me, but I really see a difference on the latests years of Generations and TR. Lastest generation toys were suffering the same illness as Movie ones, with panels fidgeting, whole altmodes holding by two unstable tabs etc.. TR on the contrary have all solid altmodes and fun transformations.
When you compare toys like T30 Blitzwing to TR Blitzwing, of T30 Bumblebee to TR Hotrod, we're definitely in two different categories.
T30 Bumblebee has litterally no constraints, no gimmick to run, nothing outside transforming from robot to car, and it's doing it wrongly, with alt mode not rolling well because of undercarriage, robot mode completely hollow and made only of faux-parts, and transformation is un-fun because of leg sliding panels, etc.
TR Hotrod had a big constraint : storing a driver in alt-mode, and the toy ends better than T30 Bumblebee, with no faux-parts at all, solid robot mode, solid car mode and fun transformation.
Same for Blitzwing where the comparison is even more impressive. The T30 had only one thing to do : be a triple changer.
TR had to be a triple changer and had to store a pilot in both vehicule modes.
And the result ? The T30 has no successful mode, with even the robot not holding together, when the TR has all three mode working better, more convincing and which do not fall appart when you touch it.
And I can do all the line like this.

I'm not sure the reason behind, if the team changed (I've read some people left at Hasbro's side recently) or if their engineers work better when they have well defined constraints than when they're comlpetely free, but the result is here.


That's why I'm a bit afraid of POTP.
We saw on the leaks some interesting bots coming, but from what we know, we're losing the gimmick-wide line, the new gimmick being more like the energon chips than something else. The leaders seems promising with the trailer-combining thing, but deluxe and voyagers seems to be back to combiner wars and nothing more.
At least it looks like we'll keep the same engineering as TR, but we're losing the line-wide gimmick which was holding TR and creating the full-line experience.

ExciKaiser wrote:Tl;Bra (Too long, But read anyway)

I started collecting G1 a while back. Ultra expensive and difficult of course, but oh so satisfying. And like Generations, I just can't consider G1 as a "single line".

For me, G1 could and is divisible into multiple lines.

G1.1: The birth of Transformers.
They regrouped and repainted multiple transforming toys from multiple companies under a single brand. That's why the crazy variations in scales and designs. Diaclones was the main group but there were oddballs like Whril, Megatron, Roadbuster, Soundwave, and even a Maccross.

G1.2: The Movie line.
As in toys based on the 1986 Movie. Those were the TRUE first designs of REAL Transformers. The style were more consistent and the overall theme was futuristic.

G1.3: Post Movie bots.
Now the gimmicks were getting crazier and crazier with both that spew actual live sparks, Scramble City combiners, Headmasters, Target Masters, and Pretenders.

G1.4: G1's death rattle.
This was the end, when Transformers didn't knew what to do anymore. Micromasters, a few more original designs, reprint galore, and the infamous Action Masters.

Then, G2 came along but was so similar to G1 with their G1 repaints it's amazing that it's not considered part of G1. People were being tired.

And finally, Beast Wars came along, saving the Transformers brand and ending G1 for good.

I have neither the money,the space nor the inclination to collect G1 toys, but I do own some reissue Seacons (thank you Mkall!) and they're pretty great, even with the slight mold degradation. There are some other G1 toys I kinda want, notably the Insecticons, the Protectobots and Fortress Maximus (who I maintain is still the best official "titan" ever made). Also, whilst he isn't actually a G1 figure, I kiiiiinda want an RID Ruination, so that if/when I get the UW figures I can replace their hands and feet with something a bit more poseable (I wonder if the Nonnef 2.0 sets are any good? The original feet had overly large pegs that damaged the ports...) and give the cool looking but kinda sucky UW hands and feet to the original Ruination, just for the sheer heck of it.

Anyway, back on topic.

I'm kinda regretting passing on any TR figures at TFNation. I mean, I didn't have the money for any more TFs and in all honesty I'm not supposed to be buying any more for the rest of the year (I indulged myself with the BW figures) but I kinda wanted that Windblade. And the Rewind. And the Krok. Actually it's probably a very good thing I limited myself.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Then, G2 came along but was so similar to G1 with their G1 repaints it's amazing that it's not considered part of G1. People were being tired.

And finally, Beast Wars came along, saving the Transformers brand and ending G1 for good.

I'm surprised, you are almost as old as I am, however that is a very jaundiced account of what happened in the early/ mid 90's.

I'll admit G2 was a bit confusing. For me the best part however was being able to obtain many of the Original Transformers I never could before (despite some color changes and change to weapon accessories). But of all the new toys, Tank Megatron was the only one that appealed to me, never touched any of the others....BW owes its success primarily to the Animated Series. If it had not been that well written, and presented, the line would have faded within a year I'm sure. The BW toy line did not "save the Transformers brand and end G1 for good". The BW Series *saved* the brand as a whole, but trust me, as great as BW was, there were many fans wondering if the mechanized vehicles would ever return, which they did with RID, and has been the theme of the majority of lines since.

Its hard to believe, but in the past 33 years the only two years Hasbro (In the U.S. at least)has produced no TF product was 1991 & 1992. I believe in those two years, other manufacturers like Takara, and perhaps in Europe continued to produce Transformers to a small degree.

TR was overall a great line. I still would have liked to get Rumble, Eject, Ramhorn, Ratbat etc... as Legends Tablets, Voyagers of Apeface & Snapdragon, and Leader Greatshot. Also deluxe Autobot TM's as well for completion.

POTP Is LOADED with Gimmicks.

Headmaster backward compatibility / Armour insertion of Primemasters
It looks like The Deluxes even may (in some case or perhaps all) have a alternative neck joint system that allows it to flip in such a way that the normal robot head is hidden inside and replaced or it flips forward and can sit on the chest. I'm not certain of that but it's the impression I get from the 2 Decepticon 'former' Powermasters.

They also retain their combiner wars functionality.

The one thing I'm curious about is will they make all the Voyagers Combiner Torsos or will they allow for an alternative Titans Returns like take on a Voyager with 3 modes instead - as I'm sure that would be fine with plenty of people if it leads to a new Apeface and Snapdragon toy.... even if that isn't until 2019.

I won't miss the Titans Returns seat-guns much though.

Speaking of the whole "Generations is a cross branding premise". I do think that when RID has finally curled up it's toes and died and perhaps if they don't do a Bumblebee Movie legion line at all in 2018.

What they could do is put Bumblebee Movie toys (new moulds) in the 2019 Movie legion line in the 1st wave.

While in 2018 (after RID is dead) they can consider a pan-generational take on the legion class. For example we never got Armada Legion class toys and plenty of key characters were missing from Cybertron too.
It would be pretty interesting to see a RID-2001 spychanger like legion take on Sideburn & Prowl too.

Not to mention there is a list as long of your arm of G1 related characters who could be made in legion class like Sideswipe, Mirage, Sunstreaker, Huffer, Pipes, Swerve, Gears, Hubcap, Bumper etc... (Did they ever make Outback from Brawn ?)

Not to mention the Commander class would work well for things like Hoist, Trailbreaker, Ironhide, Ratchet, Inferno, Grapple or Jetfire.

Then they have something they can cross promote with the base mode play pattern too as I find Legions and WST work pretty well with Titans Returns bases too.

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P.S.

Here is a quick & dirty list of items released in 1991 & 1992 (Japan / Europe) :

1991

Bombshell (Actionmaster Asst 4)- Decepticon Psychological Warfare
Charger (Actionmaster Asst 4)- Decepticon Flame-Thrower
Circuit (Actionmaster Vehicle)- Autobot Messenger
Double Punch - Decepticon Desert Vanguard
Flame (Autobot Turbomaster) - Autobot Troubleshooter
Grandus & Spinner - Cybertron Robot Base
Gripper (Motorvator) - Autobot Assault Force Leader
Lightspeed (motorvator)- Autobot Scout/Messenger
Omega Spreem (Actionmaster Elite)- Autobot Defense Base
Powerflash (Actionmaster Asst 4)- Autobot Infantryman
Rumbler (Actionmaster Exo-suit vehicle)- Autobot Front Line Defense
Sideswipe (Actionmaster ASST 4)- Autobot Warrior
Sixliner (and those who make him)- Cybertron 6-Robot Gestalt Warrior
Sky Garry & Shotbomber - Cybertron Battlestars Leader
Slicer ((Actionmaster Exo-suit vehicle)- Decepticon Massive Assault Specialist
Star Convoy & Hot Rodimus (Battlestars)- Cybertron Supreme Commander
Take-Off (Actionmaster Asst 4)- Decepticon Aerial Recon
Thundercracker (Actionmaster vehicle)- Decepticon Warrior
Tracks (Actionmaster asst4)- Autobot Warrior
Turbo Master (Actionmaster Elite)- Decepticon Aerial Marauder
Windmill - (Actionmaster Elite) - Autobot Air Defence

-------------

1992 was pretty busy : Lots of Micromaster 6 teams & Combiners Turbomasters and Predator planes etc....

---------------

Atlan - Cybertron

Battle Gaia - Destron 5-Robot Gestalt Attack Soldier
Boss - Autobot Force Leader

Chain Gun - Cybertron
Circuit - Cybertron
Convertor - Cybertron
Crush-Bull - Cybertron

Desire - Cybertron
Deftwing - Autobot Tactician
Digger - Cybertron
Discharge - Cybertron
Drillhorn - Autobot

Falcon - Cybertron
Falcon - Decepticon Leader
Fire Chief - Cybertron
Flanker - Cybertron
Flash - Autobot Decoy
Fly-Up - Cybertron

Glide - Cybertron
Gran Arm - Cybertron
Great Cannon - Destron
Guard City - Cybertron 5-Robot Gestalt Rescue Warrior

Hurricane - Autobot Defence Tactics Specialist

Iron Lift - Cybertron
Ironfist - Autobot Weaponry Expert

Jaruga - Autobot

Killbison - Autobot

Leland - Destron
Leozak - Autobot

Missile Run - Cybertron
Mixing - Cybertron

Neo-Wheel - Cybertron

Raise - Cybertron
Raker - Cybertron
Road-Police - Cybertron
Rotorstorm - Autobot Guide & Strategician

Safety - Cybertron
San Diego - Cybertron
Sandstorm - Destron
Scorch - Autobot Rear Guard
Shuttle Gunner - Destron
Sireen - Cybertron
Sixbuilder - Cybertron 6-Robot Gestalt Warrior Captain
Sixtrain - Cybertron 6-Robot Gestalt Railroad Warrior
Sixturbo - Cybertron 6-Robot Gestalt Land Warrior
Sixwing - Cybertron 6-Robot Gestalt Aviation Warrior
Skydive - Decepticon Scientific Advisor
Skyquake - Decepticon Air Commandant
Snare - Decepticon Surveillance
Sparkride - Cybertron
Stalker (predator)- Decepticon Communications Expert
Streetstar - Cybertron
Super Sonic - Cybertron

Talon - Decepticon Advance Fighter
Target Hawk - Destron
Thunder Clash - Autobot Commander In Chief
Treader - Cybertron

Windy - Cybertron

-----------------

So in retrospect I don't really tend to see a gap for the brand overall - just a blip in the US Market.

[Note : some items are shown twice to denote their separate release in Europe and Japan in different years]

RAR wrote:Headmaster backward compatibility / Armour insertion of Primemasters
It looks like The Deluxes even may (in some case or perhaps all) have a alternative neck joint system that allows it to flip in such a way that the normal robot head is hidden inside and replaced or it flips forward and can sit on the chest. I'm not certain of that but it's the impression I get from the 2 Decepticon 'former' Powermasters.

The prime masters will sit on the chest, through the part of armor/weapong which will also acts as hands/feet.

Same for the voyagers where they'll sit on the arms.

That's all. It's the same level of gimmick as the Energon chips.



Compared to Titan masters who where actually the Robots heads as well as pilots, it's more than a downgrade.


Edit : with the picture that everybody seem to forget in order to believe there's will be more than that, like actuel headmaster features.



That's all. The flipping panel on the deluxes is not here to flip and replace the head, but only to attach the prime master energon chips..
For the leader it makes sense in the matrix, but for deluxes and voyagers it's clearly a 'forced' gimmick:
"- we need to do something for deluxes and voyagers"
"- Let's attach them randomly somehere on the body and say it give them more power"

ExciKaiser wrote:

RAR wrote:Headmaster backward compatibility / Armour insertion of Primemasters
It looks like The Deluxes even may (in some case or perhaps all) have a alternative neck joint system that allows it to flip in such a way that the normal robot head is hidden inside and replaced or it flips forward and can sit on the chest. I'm not certain of that but it's the impression I get from the 2 Decepticon 'former' Powermasters.

The prime masters will sit on the chest, through the part of armor/weapong which will also acts as hands/feet.

Same for the voyagers where they'll sit on the arms.

That's all. It's the same level of gimmick as the Energon chips.



Compared to Titan masters who where actually the Robots heads as well as pilots, it's more than a downgrade.


Edit : with the picture that everybody seem to forget in order to believe there's will be more than that, like actuel headmaster features.

Sans titre 3.jpg

That's all. The flipping panel on the deluxes is not here to flip and replace the head, but only to attach the prime master energon chips..
For the leader it makes sense in the matrix, but for deluxes and voyagers it's clearly a 'forced' gimmick:
"- we need to do something for deluxes and voyagers"
"- Let's attach them randomly somehere on the body and say it give them more power"

Flipping panel? Isn't that just a modified HFG stuck on his chest?
Such a silly gimmick.