The Energon Pub

[Cobotron]

Since the 80's, and mostly the model created by Star Wars, I feel the toy industry has taken something fundamental away from children and they're development. A spoon feeding if you will. I'll use Playmobil toys as my example. Playmobil toys have several varying lines. City, Historical, Fantasy, etc. But non of these toys have any kind of fiction support (at least until very recently). The objective of these toys is to give children the tools they need to USE THEIR IMAGINATIONS! However they see fit. Make adventures, tell stories, what ever they can dream, they have toys to channel their imagination and creativity through.

I feel that video games have fallen into that same trap along with toys. With all the hand holding and never ending tutorials. But then you see open ended games like Minecraft explode in popularity.

Do you think this "manipulation" of the imagination/perception of children has developed from some misguided part of the core values our society or is it just the evolution of how to sell more product?

I lean towards the later. A marketing model in which to sell product.

[ZeroWolf]

The reason I ask...

And I will do the whole disclaimer here. whatever anyone gets from, and how they choose to engage in TFs as a hobby/past time/entertainment is ALL GOOD with me. As long as it's fun and serves some kind of escape.

Since the 80's, and mostly the model created by Star Wars, I feel the toy industry has taken something fundamental away from children and they're development. A spoon feeding if you will. I'll use Playmobil toys as my example. Playmobil toys have several varying lines. City, Historical, Fantasy, etc. But non of these toys have any kind of fiction support (at least until very recently). The objective of these toys is to give children the tools they need to USE THEIR IMAGINATIONS! However they see fit. Make adventures, tell stories, what ever they can dream, they have toys to channel their imagination and creativity through.

Personally all toys are that to me. No matter the line. No matter the fiction. It's why I never had a problem mixing my TFs with Gi Joe, with He-Man, with Lego, etc. Or a combiner made of characters that were never combiners. Or a Headmaster Triple Changing Megatron. You see what I'm saying.

The mind set that if it didn't happen in fiction, then it can't be, is a very interesting concept to me. It is the exact opposite of how I "play". I find it fascinating.

Siege is just another vehicle for me to make up my own stories, as are all TF lines.

And please, I am sincere with my disclaimer.
Freedom to play with ones toys as they see fit to bring them pleasure is the right of all sentient beings.

Thank you Cobo this is better then whatever I could say.

[no-one]

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I lean towards the later. A marketing model in which to sell product.

To be fair, that 22 minute long commercial set it's hook pretty deep 35 years ago. Could an argument be made that there is a flaw in the way toys are being developed and marketed to keep kids on that hook? Serious question as I don't have kids so I see none of it.

[ScottyP]

The new IDW comic is using Siege toy designs, so I don't see why it wouldn't count as promotional fiction related to Siege.

Have we gotten official Hasbro/IDW word on that?

Shouldn't the artwork already speak for itself?

Given past history, no. IDW Sunstreaker used the Classics design from the get go but no one thinks of IDW as fiction for Classics Sunstreaker.

Now, it's not unreasonable to think the new comics are a de facto Siege fiction given what we've seen. I just think it should not be expected to be that, at least not yet

[o.supreme]

Excellent question, as a parent of an almost 13 & 14 year old, I can say that marketing is still definitely present, but the *battle ground* if you will, has shifted. We haven't had normal commercial TV in almost a decade, but ads are still ever present online. Still, as most of us know, physical toys are an ever shrinking market in favor of video games.

For instance, my daughter was never into Barbie toys, though she has occasionally watched the cartoons online. She really doesn't have a set *thing* she's into. Though she will collect random nick-knack type toys whenever she sees something she likes (lost kitties currently).

My son, on the other hand, has been pretty much molded by me. He enjoys all the Transformers toys he has (mostly recent Generations toys), as well as Kre-o and Lego sets. Though I seriously doubt he would even know about most of them if not for me. Things hehad sought out on his own would be Dinosaur King (though I'm glad this was via Netflix long after the toys had been on shelves). Various Megaman animated series (though I still initially introduced him to the games...). he plays some online stuff on his own like Transformers RiD, Earth Wars, Roblox, and several racing games.

Currently he's been playing, of all things, Super Mario RPG... I could never get into that, but he's almost finished it.

[Rodimus Prime]

The new IDW comic is using Siege toy designs, so I don't see why it wouldn't count as promotional fiction related to Siege.

Have we gotten official Hasbro/IDW word on that?

Shouldn't the artwork already speak for itself?

Not at this point, as we haven't seen much of it. Also, I present the tragic case of the Star Wars EU. The stories are represented by at least some of the figures released over the years, but is the EU official?

I'm not saying fans shouldn't consider the lines tied to the fiction if Hasbro or IDW hasn't said so one way or another, as a matter of fact, I completely agree with Cobo, we should all use our imaginations, regardless of what anyone else says.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Imagination is a great asset in life, in general. For example, my own Beast Wars stuff I started drawing began with the Mini Comic, not the series. Chiefly because I couldn't emulate the designs of the show to my own satisfaction.

[o.supreme]

Also, I present the tragic case of the Star Wars EU. The stories are represented by at least some of the figures released over the years, but is the EU official?

This is another thing that has changed. Fan Fiction was something born from the internet, just a little over 2 decades ago. I'm sure people wrote their own stories prior, but the ability to share them with such a large community never previously existed. however, with more and more stories being produced/published (officially or unofficially) based on pre-existing IP, the term basically can be used in a derogatory way...

Example: "Machinima's Prime Wars Trilogy is nothing more than bad Fan Fiction"

Of course all opinions aside, the lines of validity have been blurred. I basically pick and choose whatever I like from established fiction, and discard the parts I don't. It does influence some purchasing choices, but not all.

I purchased Siege Cog, because I feel it helps complete TR Fort Max. I purchased Siege Skytread because Flywheels was a favorite of mine as a kid, and because he is compatible with PotP Battletrap. The fact that these two appeared in the Headmasters anime 30+ years ago, isn't how I define them, but it is a nice little *addition* if you will, that I do enjoy.

[Rodimus Prime]

The new IDW comic is using Siege toy designs, so I don't see why it wouldn't count as promotional fiction related to Siege.

Have we gotten official Hasbro/IDW word on that?

On what level does any of this matter? Also why cant G1 as a whole be the fiction behind Siege? Arent these toys emerging from the G fiction of the past 30 years? Why would it need its own specific fiction? Does the fact that there was a Titans Return IDW comic event mean that all of the titans return toyline is based on the IDW verse and thus not at all related to any other iteration of G1? Or was it based on the machinima series?

in a toyline where the fiction is made to sell the toys.

You just answered your own question there, I think. It matters to Hasbro at least, because it's a form of advertising and marketing.

[william-james88]

The new IDW comic is using Siege toy designs, so I don't see why it wouldn't count as promotional fiction related to Siege.

Have we gotten official Hasbro/IDW word on that?

On what level does any of this matter? Also why cant G1 as a whole be the fiction behind Siege? Arent these toys emerging from the G fiction of the past 30 years? Why would it need its own specific fiction? Does the fact that there was a Titans Return IDW comic event mean that all of the titans return toyline is based on the IDW verse and thus not at all related to any other iteration of G1? Or was it based on the machinima series?

in a toyline where the fiction is made to sell the toys.

You just answered your own question there, I think. It matters to Hasbro at least, because it's a form of advertising and marketing.

Yeah, and we are still seeing it that way for the Cartoon lines, but not for the rest. There is a change now where the toys are derivitive of past media/fiction. For instance, most of the Studio Series line does not have fiction made to sell it. Its based on previous films which came out in the past decade. Why wouldnt we see the generations line like that? Toys based on fiction of the past 30 years.

[o.supreme]

Yeah, and we are still seeing it that way for the Cartoon lines, but not for the rest. There is a change now where the toys are derivative of past media/fiction. For instance, most of the Studio Series line does not have fiction made to sell it. Its based on previous films which came out in the past decade. Why wouldn't we see the generations line like that? Toys based on fiction of the past 30 years.

A valid point, however I believe with SS, the idea is that the toys are supposed to represent the DEFINITIVE REPRESENTATIONS of the characters that appeared in the various movies over the past decade (whether this is true or not is debatable, the perception is not...)

However Generations is very loose in its interpretations and inspirations, so some fans may want a fiction to base them on, and some do not.

[william-james88]

Yeah, and we are still seeing it that way for the Cartoon lines, but not for the rest. There is a change now where the toys are derivative of past media/fiction. For instance, most of the Studio Series line does not have fiction made to sell it. Its based on previous films which came out in the past decade. Why wouldn't we see the generations line like that? Toys based on fiction of the past 30 years.

A valid point, however I believe with SS, the idea is that the toys are supposed to represent the DEFINITIVE REPRESENTATIONS of the characters that appeared in the various movies over the past decade (whether this is true or not is debatable, the perception is not...)

However Generations is very loose in its interpretations and inspirations, so some fans may want a fiction to base them on, and some do not.

So SS is basically the MP mantra but at a budget, thats fair too. Generations is loose that way, yeah. But when John Warden says things like they based themselves on Starscream's show character model for the toy it gives me an indication that he is really going for G1.

[Skritz]

Honestly? Hopefully they don't go too crazy with remakes of BW and UT stuff. And I say that as a Beast Wars and Unicron Trilogy fan. G1's stuff needs remaking (or re-remaking in cases where they've missed the mark) more, and most of the non-G1 remakes we've got have been watered-down and show-inaccurate. The Cybertron Optimus we're getting in this line is no exception, although I find it charming enough for me to want in spite of that.

I dont mind Tarantulas being a tank and then as a spider mode for once, Im always down for an Optimus Primal as an Apeface redeco

Lets be honest, 2/3 of the UT stuff was pretty bad (armada, energon), it was all gimmick, janky proportions and articulation (if at all in the case of armada) honestly, I'm all for a loving remake of anything armada or energon if it means getting those great figures with this new level of articulation, but I agree, cybertron specific updates don't necessarily need to happen as compared to other stuff in the UT (BW reinterpretations I'm up in the air on)

To it's credit, the Unicron Trilogy designs looked cool! However, in application you are correct that this whole era suffered from massive chunk issues when it came not long after the Beast Era, which was quite the high point of articulation at the time. There are some nice, clean-lined, colorful very 'super robot' stylings to the UT designs which would look great in Generations. T30 Armada Starscream show this can work.

As for BW remakes, I'm quite confident they can be good. We've seen very show accurate (but still modernized and stylized) figures in T30 with Rhinox and Waspinator, while POTP Optimal Optimus went and remade a Transmetal design which is something frankly few of us thought we'd even see again. Not only that but, given this was a show where characters had different forms each season, I'm personally pretty okay with redesign which are different so long as the robot mode at, the very least, is recognizable as the character. Of course I'm biased because I think the more 'iconic' BW designs (season 1) are the weakest in toy form because of the clash of the sleek organic mode with the robot kibbles, as only Masterpiece managed to make this work. Which is why some more Transmetal-esque design for BW characters wouldn't bother me if Hasbro felt the need to keep them visually consistent with current Generations stuff.

[Wolfman Jake]

Of course I'm biased because I think the more 'iconic' BW designs (season 1) are the weakest in toy form because of the clash of the sleek organic mode with the robot kibbles, as only Masterpiece managed to make this work.

Masterpiece has done a great job with the Season 1 character models of Beast Wars, but it's still not perfect. Robot kibbly bits still show in their "organic" alternate/beast modes, though I admit it's probably the best they can do at this point in time. Mainframe really cheated with their transformation animations back in the day.

[Albatross250]

Honestly? Hopefully they don't go too crazy with remakes of BW and UT stuff. And I say that as a Beast Wars and Unicron Trilogy fan. G1's stuff needs remaking (or re-remaking in cases where they've missed the mark) more, and most of the non-G1 remakes we've got have been watered-down and show-inaccurate. The Cybertron Optimus we're getting in this line is no exception, although I find it charming enough for me to want in spite of that.

I dont mind Tarantulas being a tank and then as a spider mode for once, Im always down for an Optimus Primal as an Apeface redeco

I'd be okay with that, only if they remolded the head area for Primal not to be a double sided headmaster like Apeface. And I'd hope if they did that it'd be in the Transmetal colors (minus the chrome, I've never been a fan of chrome on toys). But I'm always open to mechanical styled BW characters with vehicle modes Serves as a decent Cybertronian form/Transmetal form imo because I've always pictured the Transmetal forms where they actually make changes to their beast mode to be in transport mode as closer to their Cybertronian forms

Yesss and i also want a Rampage (or Protoform X) that has a proper tank mode, the Crab mode was the best and also a lit design

Weird flex tank mode but ok i guess

[Skritz]

Let's face it, Transmetals are not only cool but they'd work well with modern CHUG Beastformers, like the Terrorcons and Monsterbots, not to mention the Dinobots too. Which bring me to something which bugs me: why is Ravage still a cat in this line? Don't get me wrong, I like him and I get it's TEH GEEWUN but it bugs me that the Soundwave cassettes turn into earth animals in robot mode.

[Rainmaker]

Let's face it, Transmetals are not only cool but they'd work well with modern CHUG Beastformers, like the Terrorcons and Monsterbots, not to mention the Dinobots too. Which bring me to something which bugs me: why is Ravage still a cat in this line? Don't get me wrong, I like him and I get it's TEH GEEWUN but it bugs me that the Soundwave cassettes turn into earth animals in robot mode.

'earth animals'

implying that Cybertron doesn't have any creatures like them, which they probably do.

[Emerje]

Let's face it, Transmetals are not only cool but they'd work well with modern CHUG Beastformers, like the Terrorcons and Monsterbots, not to mention the Dinobots too. Which bring me to something which bugs me: why is Ravage still a cat in this line? Don't get me wrong, I like him and I get it's TEH GEEWUN but it bugs me that the Soundwave cassettes turn into earth animals in robot mode.

'earth animals'

implying that Cybertron doesn't have any creatures like them, which they probably do.

To say nothing of the other planets they've been to. It's not like Earth was their first contact with outside life. Maybe it's not a bird mode, just something that looks like an Earth bird from another planet.

Emerje

[Sentinel_Primal]

Honestly? Hopefully they don't go too crazy with remakes of BW and UT stuff. And I say that as a Beast Wars and Unicron Trilogy fan. G1's stuff needs remaking (or re-remaking in cases where they've missed the mark) more, and most of the non-G1 remakes we've got have been watered-down and show-inaccurate. The Cybertron Optimus we're getting in this line is no exception, although I find it charming enough for me to want in spite of that.

I dont mind Tarantulas being a tank and then as a spider mode for once, Im always down for an Optimus Primal as an Apeface redeco

I'd be okay with that, only if they remolded the head area for Primal not to be a double sided headmaster like Apeface. And I'd hope if they did that it'd be in the Transmetal colors (minus the chrome, I've never been a fan of chrome on toys). But I'm always open to mechanical styled BW characters with vehicle modes Serves as a decent Cybertronian form/Transmetal form imo because I've always pictured the Transmetal forms where they actually make changes to their beast mode to be in transport mode as closer to their Cybertronian forms

Yesss and i also want a Rampage (or Protoform X) that has a proper tank mode, the Crab mode was the best and also a lit design

Weird flex tank mode but ok i guess

Rampage is one of the best examples of what I mean when I said actually change from beast mode to be in transport mode Like, I get that some don't always work out as being able to change much (like, what can you change on a cat or t-rex to make it a vehicle and not "animal, but with xyz glued to it" ) but I still think with what we have today, we could pull off some cool new transmetal forms with actual vehicle modes. If nothing else though, I hope we do get the horrorcons released. They deserve good updates. And I'd rather get some of the weirder niche characters throughout this trilogy, like new coneheads, maybe some micromaster combiners, and Japanese G1 in general than say two more Optimus Primes and two variations of Megatron Though, if Hasbro's listening I'd totally buy a Megatron to Galvatron leader set

[Emerje]

Like, I get that some don't always work out as being able to change much (like, what can you change on a cat or t-rex to make it a vehicle and not "animal, but with xyz glued to it" )

If nothing else though, I hope we do get the horrorcons released.

I feel like you might have contradicted yourself a bit here. Horrocon Snapdragon is, by G1 standards, a great figure that changes from a T-rex type creature to a spacecraft to a robot without looking like a dinosaur with wings to form the vehicle mode. It can definitely be done. I believe much of what we saw in Transmetals was entirely intentional. They were never meant to look like vehicles in their third form, just animals with added vehicle components.

Emerje

[Sentinel_Primal]

Like, I get that some don't always work out as being able to change much (like, what can you change on a cat or t-rex to make it a vehicle and not "animal, but with xyz glued to it" )

If nothing else though, I hope we do get the horrorcons released.

I feel like you might have contradicted yourself a bit here. Horrocon Snapdragon is, by G1 standards, a great figure that changes from a T-rex type creature to a spacecraft to a robot without looking like a dinosaur with wings to form the vehicle mode. It can definitely be done. I believe much of what we saw in Transmetals was entirely intentional. They were never meant to look like vehicles in their third form, just animals with added vehicle components.

Emerje

That's fair I always forget that Snapdragon is t-rex like for some reason

[Skritz]

Like, I get that some don't always work out as being able to change much (like, what can you change on a cat or t-rex to make it a vehicle and not "animal, but with xyz glued to it" )

If nothing else though, I hope we do get the horrorcons released.

I feel like you might have contradicted yourself a bit here. Horrocon Snapdragon is, by G1 standards, a great figure that changes from a T-rex type creature to a spacecraft to a robot without looking like a dinosaur with wings to form the vehicle mode. It can definitely be done. I believe much of what we saw in Transmetals was entirely intentional. They were never meant to look like vehicles in their third form, just animals with added vehicle components.

Emerje

That's fair I always forget that Snapdragon is t-rex like for some reason

I thought it was more of a generic kaiju: Snapdragon being Godzilla and Apeface being King Kong.

[Emerje]

I thought it was more of a generic kaiju: Snapdragon being Godzilla and Apeface being King Kong.

You don't think Godzilla is "T-rex like" being a giant upright walking lizard? Or for that matter, Snapdragon with his tiny arms?

Emerje

[william-james88]

Let's face it, Transmetals are not only cool but they'd work well with modern CHUG Beastformers, like the Terrorcons and Monsterbots, not to mention the Dinobots too. Which bring me to something which bugs me: why is Ravage still a cat in this line? Don't get me wrong, I like him and I get it's TEH GEEWUN but it bugs me that the Soundwave cassettes turn into earth animals in robot mode.

'earth animals'

implying that Cybertron doesn't have any creatures like them, which they probably do.

To say nothing of the other planets they've been to. It's not like Earth was their first contact with outside life. Maybe it's not a bird mode, just something that looks like an Earth bird from another planet.

Emerje

Yuo, and thats what the IDW comics went with. The predacons and Dynobots got their beast modes before ever coming to earth.

[bacem]

Got this from transfans facebook page, siege galaxy convoy alt mode.