bacem wrote:HAMMER TIME!
Now that's awesome and OVERKILL. I like that!
bacem wrote:HAMMER TIME!
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:That hammer looks awesome. And I'll bet you it'll show up in the Legends manga soon
The Legends manga died with the epliogue to the Big Powered set.ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:That hammer looks awesome. And I'll bet you it'll show up in the Legends manga soon
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Did he have it in the cartoon or the animated movie?ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Reiterate statement that the tender [i]is[i] necessary, because it makes Astrotrain's locomotive mode complete finally. After 34 years of it being the engine equivalent of these:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Did he have it in the cartoon or the animated movie?ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Reiterate statement that the tender [i]is[i] necessary, because it makes Astrotrain's locomotive mode complete finally. After 34 years of it being the engine equivalent of these:
Your comparison to Fire Convoy is inaccurate, since Fire Convoy was depicted with the back end of the truck in the cartoon. Unlike Astrotrain.
The thing is, Astrotrain isn't a tank engine. His G1 design is based on a JNR Class D51 steam locomotive, which is a tender engine. Meaning his design was always missing a vital component back when the original 1985 mold was produced.Jelze Bunnycat wrote:And Zelda, there are steam locomotives without tenders around, instead carrying all fuel and water on board; they're referred to as Tank Engines.
*hears the old Thomas tune*
Anyway, those are usually limited to shorter lines or a rail yard that don't require much fuel and water.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:The thing is, Astrotrain isn't a tank engine. His G1 design is based on a JNR Class D51 steam locomotive, which is a tender engine. Meaning his design was always missing a vital component back when the original 1985 mold was produced.Jelze Bunnycat wrote:And Zelda, there are steam locomotives without tenders around, instead carrying all fuel and water on board; they're referred to as Tank Engines.
*hears the old Thomas tune*
Anyway, those are usually limited to shorter lines or a rail yard that don't require much fuel and water.
And GoBots Loco.Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Sabrblade wrote:The thing is, Astrotrain isn't a tank engine. His G1 design is based on a JNR Class D51 steam locomotive, which is a tender engine. Meaning his design was always missing a vital component back when the original 1985 mold was produced.Jelze Bunnycat wrote:And Zelda, there are steam locomotives without tenders around, instead carrying all fuel and water on board; they're referred to as Tank Engines.
*hears the old Thomas tune*
Anyway, those are usually limited to shorter lines or a rail yard that don't require much fuel and water.
Then the Micromaster D-Go is guilty of that too.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
No, because the toy didn't include one and the animation was too cheap and too toy-bound to correct that. But whether it was in the cartoon or not is, in this case, irrelevant.Rodimus Prime wrote:Did he have it in the cartoon or the animated movie?ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Reiterate statement that the tender is necessary, because it makes Astrotrain's locomotive mode complete finally. After 34 years of it being the engine equivalent of these:
-Images snipped-
No, it isn't. That doesn't. Slagging. Matter.Rodimus Prime wrote:Your comparison to Fire Convoy is inaccurate, since Fire Convoy was depicted with the back end of the truck in the cartoon. Unlike Astrotrain.
EXACTLY. The tender - which in almost all cases carries not only the fuel but also the water, so don't just call it a "coal car," Kuuga - is technically separate, but it's essential.Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
I think it would have detached and either become a launch pad or gun platform. In fact, I'm pretty sure the designer actually originally planned on a detachable tender. Because two of the G1 toy's shuttle engines are simple pegs rather than proper engine bells. Pegs that have no apparent function.ZeroWolf wrote:Indeed, though I wonder how Takara would have handled the tender if they'd included it on the original toy? Would it have been completely fixed to him? (think cw Ultra Magnus where you can't disconnect the cab) or would it have become a fold out gun platform?
Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Knowing a steam engine needs fuel and water and a way to carry them is ENTRY-LEVEL train knowledge. And see also the part about the exposed shuttle engines.Emerje wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Only if you really, really know your trains. Most people wouldn't even notice, a train is a train.
Emerje
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Knowing a steam engine needs fuel and water and a way to carry them is ENTRY-LEVEL train knowledge. And see also the part about the exposed shuttle engines.Emerje wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Only if you really, really know your trains. Most people wouldn't even notice, a train is a train.
Emerje
Yet you still miss the point, that being cartoon and/or toy accuracy. Astrotrain did not have a tender in the cartoon or with his G1 figure release. Whether this is accurate to real life is irrelevant. If the WFC toy were to be accurate to its source material, it would have to be without a tender. Therefore my original statement stands. The tender is unnecessary.ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No, because the toy didn't include one and the animation was too cheap and too toy-bound to correct that. But whether it was in the cartoon or not is, in this case, irrelevant.Rodimus Prime wrote:Did he have it in the cartoon or the animated movie?ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Reiterate statement that the tender is necessary, because it makes Astrotrain's locomotive mode complete finally. After 34 years of it being the engine equivalent of these:
-Images snipped-No, it isn't. That doesn't. Slagging. Matter.Rodimus Prime wrote:Your comparison to Fire Convoy is inaccurate, since Fire Convoy was depicted with the back end of the truck in the cartoon. Unlike Astrotrain.
Because depicted with a tender or not, Astrotrain's locomotive mode is just as blatantly incomplete without one as RiD and Cybertron Optimus Prime's truck modes are without the back half. Or as incomplete as G1 Optimus Prime's would be if you removed his fuel tanks.
And his point is that the original toy and cartoon should have had the tender because, to him, both look wrong without it.Rodimus Prime wrote:And still your comparison to Fire Convoy or even G1 Prime's fuel tanks is also inaccurate. Fire Convoy's back half and Prime's tanks were in their respective cartoons and on their respective original toys. Astrotrain's tender was not.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
I understand that. But that's his opinion. I'm stating facts.Sabrblade wrote:And his point is that the original toy and cartoon should have had the tender because, to him, both look wrong without it.Rodimus Prime wrote:And still your comparison to Fire Convoy or even G1 Prime's fuel tanks is also inaccurate. Fire Convoy's back half and Prime's tanks were in their respective cartoons and on their respective original toys. Astrotrain's tender was not.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Knowing a steam engine needs fuel and water and a way to carry them is ENTRY-LEVEL train knowledge. And see also the part about the exposed shuttle engines.Emerje wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Only if you really, really know your trains. Most people wouldn't even notice, a train is a train.
Emerje
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
But they still know that the car is supposed to have a gas tank, don't they?Emerje wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Knowing a steam engine needs fuel and water and a way to carry them is ENTRY-LEVEL train knowledge. And see also the part about the exposed shuttle engines.Emerje wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Half a train still makes for a poor disguise.King Kuuga wrote:The coal car is still a separate car from engine. As an alien robot, Astrotrain was presumably capable of self-propulsion and would only have adopted a coal car if someone at the station hooked one up to him.
Only if you really, really know your trains. Most people wouldn't even notice, a train is a train.
Emerje
I would wager most of the world, including many people on this forum, aren't even at that level when it comes to trains. People drive cars all day without a clue how to change the wipers, some can't even pump their own gas.
Emerje
From my perspective it's relevant because it makes the G1 toy and cartoon depictions faulty and incomplete; the component they omitted is that important to the real thing. It can't go anywhere under its own power without that part, nor can it hook up to train cars.Rodimus Prime wrote:Yet you still miss the point, that being cartoon and/or toy accuracy. Astrotrain did not have a tender in the cartoon or with his G1 figure release. Whether this is accurate to real life is irrelevant.
It is not inaccurate. Because what I am saying is that in the cartoon or not, part of the G1 toy or not, the tender is as essential to the thing he's trying to be, as the back half of RiD Prime's fire truck mode is to that fire truck mode. That much is a fact.Rodimus Prime wrote:And still your comparison to Fire Convoy or even G1 Prime's fuel tanks is also inaccurate. Fire Convoy's back half and Prime's tanks were in their respective cartoons and on their respective original toys. Astrotrain's tender was not.
Exactly. Looking at the G1 toy and cartoon depiction is like looking at the steam engine version of this:Sabrblade wrote:And his point is that the original toy and cartoon should have had the tender because, to him, both look wrong without it.Rodimus Prime wrote:And still your comparison to Fire Convoy or even G1 Prime's fuel tanks is also inaccurate. Fire Convoy's back half and Prime's tanks were in their respective cartoons and on their respective original toys. Astrotrain's tender was not.
Mmmmm, only half of what you're saying - that the tender was not in the cartoon or part of the original toy - is actually a fact.Rodimus Prime wrote:I understand that. But that's his opinion. I'm stating facts.
For the most part I think it's pretty good. I only have three complaints:Gauntlet101010 wrote:This has become about Siege Astrotrain again?
I could appreciate the tender hiding the giant rockets in the back of the train more if the train mode itself was done better.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:As it stands, though, the tender gets put aside for two out of the three modes.
As someone who's both, I consider it more integral (I mean, a semi cab can function independently of a trailer), and the absence of a tender prior to the SIEGE/ER toy has always bugged me.Gauntlet101010 wrote:And it isn't as integral to the vehicle mode's design as Prime's trailer was, to me anyway. I'm a G1 cartoon fan, not a train fan.
The narrower front end.
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