The Energon Pub

[Wolfman Jake]

Hasbro and Takara kinda wrote themselves into a corner for any potential new Raiden figure when they made both of his rivals (Devastator and Predaking) into Titan class figures. As such, any new Raiden would have to be of similar size to them in order for him to proper fight them on their level.

Moreover, the engineering for Devastator for theoretically be reapplied for a Titan class Raiden since the two shared similar combiner engineering back in their original Diaclone molds.

I agree. Raiden should be a Titan Class figure, sized to go along with Devastator and Predaking. We know we're getting Omega Supreme for Siege. Everyone is expecting that we'll get Scorponok sometime soon. Raiden would round out another three Titans for the entire War for Cybertron line. It would also create a nice parity between the Autobots and the Decepticons for their Titan Class line-ups (at least for main line releases). Each faction would have two cityformers (Metroplex and Fortress Maximus versus Trypticon and Scorponok) and two "smaller" Titans: Omega Supreme and Raiden for the Autobots and the aforementioned Devastator and Predaking for the Decepticons. Yes, I'm anticipating that Omega Supreme will be designed to equal Devastator in mass and stature, since they are quasi rivals per the original cartoon. Even though Omega Supreme isn't an actual combiner like the other three, his transformation scheme was always very modular/partsformer-ish, which isn't that far off from a combiner anyway.

[Seibertron]

My thoughts on all of this scale stuff? Scale is silly. It's great when it works, but dammit it all ... I love my G1 Devastator next to G1 Optimus Prime, who aren't that much different in height. They're definitely not in scale. Nor is G1 Devastator and Omega Supreme. Or how about G1 Blaster next to Devastator? I know they weren't meant to be in scale. Sometimes, you just have to use your damn imagination. Are they close enough? Is Bumblebee taller than Optimus Prime? I mean, come on. Some of you are being so black and white about this that you're forgetting to just have fun. I know I have my own set of things that I nitpick about or drive me crazy, but at some point, we all just need to let those things go and just enjoy Transformers for being amazing Transformers. Toys that turn from one toy into another. Puzzle toys!

Time for some more Realistic Ryan ... if anything, we at least have such a wide variety of figures to choose from to make your own perfect "in-scale" collection that this just seems silly to be arguing so much about "scale" over the course of a "12" year long collector line that wasn't really intended to go past the first few waves back in 2007 (hence the BotCon 2007 set debacle). The price of oil has changed up and down so many times over the years, the cost of shipping, the size of packaging (everything has to be "green" now), not to mention in-house designers at Hasbro and Takara changing out how many times over the past 12 years, company changes, direction, corporate mandates, etc. There's a lot going on here. I'm just happy that most of these figures are more-or-less approximately 6 inches tall give or take an inch for Deluxes.

I'm super stoked about War for Cybertron SIEGE and the potential of where this line could go. I hope we see things that we've never seen before in the Transformers line come out of this. SIEGE took my attention away from everything else that I've been working on behind-the-scenes for the past FOURTEEN months and put me in a position where I just had to do galleries because I think these toys are so amazing.

If anything, SIEGE certainly took me out of my funk from Power of the Primes, which I was not a fan of with a few exceptions. POTP was one of the most disappointing lines to me in the past 20 years. Happy to see SIEGE kicking butt.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Hasbro and Takara kinda wrote themselves into a corner for any potential new Raiden figure when they made both of his rivals (Devastator and Predaking) into Titan class figures. As such, any new Raiden would have to be of similar size to them in order for him to proper fight them on their level.

Moreover, the engineering for Devastator for theoretically be reapplied for a Titan class Raiden since the two shared similar combiner engineering back in their original Diaclone molds.

However, Raiden has a slight disadvantage over Devastator in that his components partsform: all train cabins/front sections detach for both individual robot modes and the combined mode. Fortunately, all have a purpose:

- Shouki's becomes part of the chest armor
- Kaen's becomes the head
- Seizan's and Suiken's bulk up the midsection
- Getsuei's and Yukikaze's become the feet

Integrating those for modern figures would require shuffling functions or creative thinking, especially for Kaen as he forms the waist and head with Shouki inbetween.

[Sentinel_Primal]

Hasbro and Takara kinda wrote themselves into a corner for any potential new Raiden figure when they made both of his rivals (Devastator and Predaking) into Titan class figures. As such, any new Raiden would have to be of similar size to them in order for him to proper fight them on their level.

Moreover, the engineering for Devastator for theoretically be reapplied for a Titan class Raiden since the two shared similar combiner engineering back in their original Diaclone molds.

I agree. Raiden should be a Titan Class figure, sized to go along with Devastator and Predaking. We know we're getting Omega Supreme for Siege. Everyone is expecting that we'll get Scorponok sometime soon. Raiden would round out another three Titans for the entire War for Cybertron line. It would also create a nice parity between the Autobots and the Decepticons for their Titan Class line-ups (at least for main line releases). Each faction would have two cityformers (Metroplex and Fortress Maximus versus Trypticon and Scorponok) and two "smaller" Titans: Omega Supreme and Raiden for the Autobots and the aforementioned Devastator and Predaking for the Decepticons. Yes, I'm anticipating that Omega Supreme will be designed to equal Devastator in mass and stature, since they are quasi rivals per the original cartoon. Even though Omega Supreme isn't an actual combiner like the other three, his transformation scheme was always very modular/partsformer-ish, which isn't that far off from a combiner anyway.

I could be misremembering, but didn't Warden say a few months before they revealed that Omega was the titan that if they would ever do a titan class Omega, it would be in scale with Devastator?

[Seibertron]

I agree. Raiden should be a Titan Class figure, sized to go along with Devastator and Predaking. We know we're getting Omega Supreme for Siege. Everyone is expecting that we'll get Scorponok sometime soon. Raiden would round out another three Titans for the entire War for Cybertron line. It would also create a nice parity between the Autobots and the Decepticons for their Titan Class line-ups (at least for main line releases). Each faction would have two cityformers (Metroplex and Fortress Maximus versus Trypticon and Scorponok) and two "smaller" Titans: Omega Supreme and Raiden for the Autobots and the aforementioned Devastator and Predaking for the Decepticons. Yes, I'm anticipating that Omega Supreme will be designed to equal Devastator in mass and stature, since they are quasi rivals per the original cartoon. Even though Omega Supreme isn't an actual combiner like the other three, his transformation scheme was always very modular/partsformer-ish, which isn't that far off from a combiner anyway.

I disagree. Devastator and Predaking should never have been Titan Class. I would still like to see them resolve the 6 combiner issue and figure out how to do a deluxe + 1 Voyager Predaking. I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden. I don't think it would sell.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden. I don't think it would sell.

In the US, maybe not, but in Japan... ho boy. Look up TakaraTomy's rebooted Shinkalion line to catch my drift That's actually working against a new Raiden as they're already preoccupied with that line. Another factor working against a (US) release of Raiden is a certain video game franchise. You all know which one.

[Sabrblade]

Another factor working against a (US) release of Raiden is a certain video game franchise. You all know which one.

Ride, obviously.

(Cuz he's Ridin', er, Raiden)

[Seibertron]

I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden. I don't think it would sell.

In the US, maybe not, but in Japan... ho boy. Look up TakaraTomy's rebooted Shinkalion line to catch my drift That's actually working against a new Raiden as they're already preoccupied with that line. Another factor working against a (US) release of Raiden is a certain video game franchise. You all know which one.

No I don't know. Fortnight? I have no idea what you are talking about because I don't follow video games other than a small selection on Switch.

I'm assuming Japan's market doesn't really count when it comes to making worldwide mass retail decisions for the Transformers brand, especially when it comes to making decisions about a Titan Class figure. It has to be something that they can sell worldwide.

[Nemesis Primal]

I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden. I don't think it would sell.

In the US, maybe not, but in Japan... ho boy. Look up TakaraTomy's rebooted Shinkalion line to catch my drift That's actually working against a new Raiden as they're already preoccupied with that line. Another factor working against a (US) release of Raiden is a certain video game franchise. You all know which one.

No I don't know. Fortnight? I have no idea what you are talking about because I don't follow video games other than a small selection on Switch.

Either Mortal Kombat or Metal Gear Rising, take your pick.

...probably Mortal Kombat though.

Also in response to the combiner questions, as I've been gone a few days, I still really want a Piranacon update and then an all-new combiner, and I'm uncertain how I feel about Raiden, although I'm much more interested in more Scramble City combiners than Titans.

[ThunderThruster]

I disagree. Devastator and Predaking should never have been Titan Class. I would still like to see them resolve the 6 combiner issue and figure out how to do a deluxe + 1 Voyager Predaking. I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden.

I whoeheartedly agree with this.

[Evil Eye]

I disagree. Devastator and Predaking should never have been Titan Class. I would still like to see them resolve the 6 combiner issue and figure out how to do a deluxe + 1 Voyager Predaking. I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden.

I whoeheartedly agree with this.

Me likewise. If they'd had the same budget/plastic and partscount allocations but been smaller and denser (so they were only a little taller than a standard CW Gestalt but much bulkier and with more accessories) I could have gotten behind it. Having them be monstrously tall and rather compromised in other areas just so they could be massive seems to me at least like a mistake. I don't mind combiners being different sizes, but not to that degree.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I disagree. Devastator and Predaking should never have been Titan Class. I would still like to see them resolve the 6 combiner issue and figure out how to do a deluxe + 1 Voyager Predaking. I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden.

I whoeheartedly agree with this.

I'm basically the same. While the toys - especially Predaking - are cool on their own and it does make Devastator big enough to tower over full-size individual Autobots... it makes them unsuitable for combiner-on-combiner fights on account of being big enough to sit on the others, which they weren't in fiction aside from that one stupid comic. The toys were bigger, yes, but only because the individual Constructicons, Aerialbots, and so on were midgets next to their fellows (Just compare Breakdown to Sideswipe) while the individual Predacons weren't.

Regarding the 6-member combiner issue, I think it would be simple in Devastator's case. The way he transforms, a Deluxe Long Haul + Deluxe Hook torso would be fairly comparable to a Combiner Wars Voyager torso in height. Maybe a bit taller with the necessary parts for leg articulation added in, but that balances out since Devy doesn't have separate feet pieces. Raiden might be a little trickier.
In both their cases trying for too much integration of combiner kibble is a fool's errand.

Both of them as well as a Supreme Predaking would likely still have to be done as sets to account for all the parts and maybe fudge some sizes a bit

[Wolfman Jake]

I agree. Raiden should be a Titan Class figure, sized to go along with Devastator and Predaking. We know we're getting Omega Supreme for Siege. Everyone is expecting that we'll get Scorponok sometime soon. Raiden would round out another three Titans for the entire War for Cybertron line. It would also create a nice parity between the Autobots and the Decepticons for their Titan Class line-ups (at least for main line releases). Each faction would have two cityformers (Metroplex and Fortress Maximus versus Trypticon and Scorponok) and two "smaller" Titans: Omega Supreme and Raiden for the Autobots and the aforementioned Devastator and Predaking for the Decepticons. Yes, I'm anticipating that Omega Supreme will be designed to equal Devastator in mass and stature, since they are quasi rivals per the original cartoon. Even though Omega Supreme isn't an actual combiner like the other three, his transformation scheme was always very modular/partsformer-ish, which isn't that far off from a combiner anyway.

I disagree. Devastator and Predaking should never have been Titan Class. I would still like to see them resolve the 6 combiner issue and figure out how to do a deluxe + 1 Voyager Predaking. I have zero interest in seeing a Titan Class Raiden. I don't think it would sell.

Maybe so, but they were and are, so Hasbro can either work with what they have already or start from scratch. I have a feeling they'd prefer the former.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Making Raiden Supreme instead of Titan wouldn't be "starting from scratch", Wolfman Jake. What about working with the Menasor, Bruticus, Superion, Defensor, Victorion, Computron, Abominus, Volcanicus, etc. that they have already, hm? Omega, Devy, and Predaking are but three figures.

Also, if you want someone to be a second "small" Autobot Titan that bad, Sky Lynx is offended that you are overlooking his greatness:

[Sabrblade]

Also, if you want someone to be a second "small" Autobot Titan that bad, Sky Lynx is offended that you are overlooking his greatness:

Sky Lynx already got a new toy recently, as a combiner to boot.

Nor was Sky Lynx as big as Omega Supreme or any Combiner to warrant being Titan-sized.

The only other non-Cityformer/non-Combiner Autobot I can think of who was that big (as in, who actually was larger than a Combiner but smaller than a Cityformer) is Galaxy Shuttle, but who's just as (if not more) obscure as Raiden.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Also, if you want someone to be a second "small" Autobot Titan that bad, Sky Lynx is offended that you are overlooking his greatness:

Sky Lynx already got a new toy recently, as a combiner to boot.

Nor was Sky Lynx as big as Omega Supreme or any Combiner to warrant being Titan-sized.

The only other non-Cityformer/non-Combiner Autobot I can think of who was that big (as in, who actually was larger than a Combiner but smaller than a Cityformer) is Galaxy Shuttle, but who's just as (if not more) obscure as Raiden.

1. Combiner Wars Sky Lynx isn't a proper new toy of him and you know it. Too small, and doesn't split like the original. And as a combiner he's too small to take on his main rival because said rival is Titan-class.

2. "Nor was Sky Lynx as big as Omega Supreme or any Combiner-"
WRONG.
Just, wrong.

Very wrong.
So very wrong
Completely and totally wrong.
Sky Lynx's toy was big, he was portrayed as big, and much like Omega Supreme had been Devastator's rival, Sky Lynx acted as Predaking's rival.

[ZeroWolf]

Also, if you want someone to be a second "small" Autobot Titan that bad, Sky Lynx is offended that you are overlooking his greatness:

Sky Lynx already got a new toy recently, as a combiner to boot.

Nor was Sky Lynx as big as Omega Supreme or any Combiner to warrant being Titan-sized.

The only other non-Cityformer/non-Combiner Autobot I can think of who was that big (as in, who actually was larger than a Combiner but smaller than a Cityformer) is Galaxy Shuttle, but who's just as (if not more) obscure as Raiden.

1. Combiner Wars Sky Lynx isn't a proper new toy of him and you know it. Too small, and doesn't split like the original. And as a combiner he's too small to take on his main rival because said rival is Titan-class.

2. "Nor was Sky Lynx as big as Omega Supreme or any Combiner-"
WRONG.
Just, wrong.

Very wrong.
So very wrong
Completely and totally wrong.
Sky Lynx's toy was big, he was portrayed as big, and much like Omega Supreme had been Devastator's rival, Sky Lynx acted as Predaking's rival.

Problem is he was superseded as predakings rival in the headmasters as Raiden took that role. So a titan sky lynx (which I think was an idea when we were pondering who could be made in the class all those years ago) would be a hard sell to Japan. Much as a titan Raiden would be a hard sell to the rest of the world. Also the supreme class is gone, and unless hasbro does a complete one eighty, isn't coming back. Best make peace or forever be disappointed. If worse came to worse, I could see hasbro consolidating to just leader Class for a while.

[o.supreme]

A few people have said that this line doesn't lend itself well to combiners. All the micromasters so far combine to make weapons. Skytread,

It was pretty heavily implied we were discussing large combiner teams, I know anything made up of "parts that combine" can be considered a combiner, but lets just use some common sense.

Anyway...all the Raiden talk warms my heart even if we don't always agree. Initially, I would have wanted a Raiden that scaled with all the other CW/PotP combiners, however, since Hasbro has seen fit to make Titan Class size toys of Devastator and Predaking, at this point, a titan class Raiden makes the most sense.

Now seeing as how this character never got a release stateside initially, I'd be happy with anything, well, except a micromaster version...I had the privilege to own the original for about 2 years before I sold off my collection, and a modern update is long overdue. Yes Trains are a hard sell in North America. *(Of course it might be easier if that Bullet Train system from San Francisco to LA was ever built...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californi ... Speed_Rail

But I digress...Also if the issue is merely with the name, and its possible problematic implication with a character of the same name owned by Midway Games, they could just alter it to "Autobot Raiden", or failing that, Rail Racer, it's been done before. Or how about even altering the spelling a bit. I know the spelling we use "Raiden" is most commonly accepted, and has appeared in a few publications, but has it ever appeared with that spelling by something officially released by or ?.

In any case, I'd love to see it before the end of this current iteration of Generations in 2021.

[Sabrblade]

Also if the issue is merely with the name, and its possible problematic implication with a character of the same name owned by Midway Games, they could just alter it to "Autobot Raiden", or failing that, Rail Racer, it's been done before. Or how about even altering the spelling a bit. I know the spelling we use "Raiden" is most commonly accepted, and has appeared in a few publications, but has it ever appeared with that spelling by something officially released by or ?.

Only thing I can think of is the Ask Vector Prime Facebook, which used "Raiden" and all of his components Japanese names since the entry describing his origin wanted to keep him true to his Japanese roots.

[Evil Eye]

The name is definitely an issue. Not sure how they'd get around that; I assume by changing his name, either to Rail Racer or something else original. And that's before we get to the individual Trainbots. Honestly given that the Japanese exclusive market isn't dead after all (Dai Atlas) I wouldn't be surprised if Raiden ended up being a "Takara-only" release offered via imports/Hasbro Asia, thus circumventing the whole "Americanization" problem.

As far as size goes I'd prefer him being standard CW/POTP gestalt sized, and certainly not Titan scaled. It makes the whole "rivalry with Predaking" thing a bit more of a David and Goliath dynamic, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Though the trainformer I'd really like to see get an update is actually Windy, the (other) perky Autobot idol singer. Me and a friend had an idea of redoing her somewhat to be less redundant with Rosanna around by making her into an Autobot mahou shoujo (preferably voiced by Sakura Tange in a hypothetical anime). Whether she actually has magic powers, conventional weapons with magical themes and voice activation, or if she's just obsessed with human entertainment is another matter altogether.

[Wolfman Jake]

Rail-Thunder

You're all welcome.

[Sentinel_Primal]

If we ever did get a Raiden, I think I'd like it more if we got a psuedo hover mode for the train modes like what we got with Prime. Even if it's not something acknowledged and it just exists out of transformation coincidence, I'd like a hover mode, only because I've never really enjoyed the concept of a Transformer becoming a train that has to be on a track. I know Astrotrain could just roll wherever he wanted, but I'm a nitpicky person. As it stands though, a Raiden would be cool, if they managed to make the individual modes and train modes look good

[Sabrblade]

Rail-Thunder

You're all welcome.

Maybe "Thunderbolt", as a translation-inversion-compound of his name:

"Raiden" --> "Lightning and Thunder" --> "Thunder and Lightning" --> "Thunder and Lightning bolt" --> "Thunderbolt".


Or just "Riden". Nonsense word that sounds the same and also sounds like "ridin'" as in "ridin' a train".

[Evil Eye]

Rail-Thunder

You're all welcome.

Damn right we are. That's damn cool.

[Sabrblade]

If we ever did get a Raiden, I think I'd like it more if we got a psuedo hover mode for the train modes like what we got with Prime. Even if it's not something acknowledged and it just exists out of transformation coincidence, I'd like a hover mode, only because I've never really enjoyed the concept of a Transformer becoming a train that has to be on a track. I know Astrotrain could just roll wherever he wanted, but I'm a nitpicky person. As it stands though, a Raiden would be cool, if they managed to make the individual modes and train modes look good

The Trainbots were a flying train, so that would work.