The Energon Pub

Caelus wrote:

Knives wrote:And on the other note, did someone make alt pics for the pre-war Maximal/Predacon alts? If not I need to go request them in the mega-thread... I mean the alt. mode request thread.

All the Botcon ones should have been made up already as their original molds (Cheetor should already be in the thread as Cybertron Clocker).

I have already recommended in the Planning Forum that they be included.

AFAIK, IDW's Cybertronian alts have not been made yet.

Yeah, the botcon ones. Thanks for the info, Caelus. Now comes the waiting...

Knives wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Knives wrote:And on the other note, did someone make alt pics for the pre-war Maximal/Predacon alts? If not I need to go request them in the mega-thread... I mean the alt. mode request thread.

All the Botcon ones should have been made up already as their original molds (Cheetor should already be in the thread as Cybertron Clocker).

I have already recommended in the Planning Forum that they be included.

AFAIK, IDW's Cybertronian alts have not been made yet.

Yeah, the botcon ones. Thanks for the info, Caelus. Now comes the waiting...

And the hoping; I made a recommendation, that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

Caelus wrote:

Knives wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Knives wrote:And on the other note, did someone make alt pics for the pre-war Maximal/Predacon alts? If not I need to go request them in the mega-thread... I mean the alt. mode request thread.

All the Botcon ones should have been made up already as their original molds (Cheetor should already be in the thread as Cybertron Clocker).

I have already recommended in the Planning Forum that they be included.

AFAIK, IDW's Cybertronian alts have not been made yet.

Yeah, the botcon ones. Thanks for the info, Caelus. Now comes the waiting...

And the hoping; I made a recommendation, that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

There is quite a few slots left to be filled, I'm sure I can squeeze them in somewhere. I'll be making updates over the weekend, provided work isn't too busy (knock on wood), so check back then

Caelus wrote:Alas, most animals don't breath fire (though I'll grant it isn't uncommon in Transformers), and most Air Animals wouldn't be able to crush a tank by ramming one.

You look at the legends worldwide and you might find that most dragon-like creatures don't breathe fire, and quite a few don't fly, either.

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Alas, most animals don't breath fire (though I'll grant it isn't uncommon in Transformers), and most Air Animals wouldn't be able to crush a tank by ramming one.

You look at the legends worldwide and you might find that most dragon-like creatures don't breathe fire, and quite a few don't fly, either.

Yes, I know that many "dragon-like creatures" didn't breath fire and didn't fly. But I would dispute the 'most' part, as European and Eastern dragons are both often depicted as flying and breathing fire.

I would also argue that if you describe a "dragon-like creature" that doesn't breath fire (or something else that would be equivalent to a strafe attack) and doesn't fly, you're basically just describing a large reptile and/or dinosaur.

In fact, if I were to be really anal/nitpicky, I'd point out that by describing a creature as "dragon-like" you have automatically defined it as not being a dragon, making the whole argument moot.

Remember, the game uses vastly over-simplifying categories not for the sake of grouping the alts in an aesthetically pleasing way, but for the sake of pairing alternate modes with appropriate icons. The "dragons" label is used instead of the awkward "Giant Airborne Fire-breathing Creature of Nondescript Classfication".

Caelus wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:stuff

more stuff

even more stuff

just give the beserk fuhrer alt to cons and he'll be quiet, Caelus.

Tammuz wrote:just give the beserk fuhrer alt to cons and he'll be quiet, Caelus.

No I won't

Thunderscream wrote:

Tammuz wrote:just give the beserk fuhrer alt to cons and he'll be quiet, Caelus.

No I won't

SHHH! they don't know that! we can always argue about the dragon class AFTER we've secured the beserk fuhrer alt mode!

Ooh I come back from holidays to find this! Nice.

Caelus wrote:Yes, I know that many "dragon-like creatures" didn't breath fire and didn't fly. But I would dispute the 'most' part, as European and Eastern dragons are both often depicted as flying and breathing fire.

You're talking about a dragon that fits the description of St. George's dragon (which, btw, has it's origins in Turkey). How ever, there are many examples of European Dragons that don't fit the mod. Some examples:
Lambton's Worm: Niether flew nor breathed fire and is considered dragon
Gargouille: A serpent-like dragon that did not fly and expelled water instead of fire
Peluda: A spike-covered dragon that expelled fire but did not fly. Related to it is the six-limbed shelled Tarasque, which expelled fire but was grounded.
Lindorm: A serpent like two legged dragon did not fly; some version have it breathing fire while others don't. Also known as a "tatzulwurm."

And I'm not going into depth about the flying/non-firebreathing Chinese/Korean lungs and Japanese tatsu.

Caelus wrote:I would also argue that if you describe a "dragon-like creature" that doesn't breath fire (or something else that would be equivalent to a strafe attack) and doesn't fly, you're basically just describing a large reptile and/or dinosaur.

Not true; the Japanese hai riyo had the head of a dragon, but the body of a bird. The North American piasa was also covered in hair-like feathers. Then you have the feathered serpent Quetzalcoatal of Aztec mythology...

Caelus wrote:In fact, if I were to be really anal/nitpicky, I'd point out that by describing a creature as "dragon-like" you have automatically defined it as not being a dragon, making the whole argument moot.

That would probably be true of mythical beasts like the Australian bunyip and the Greek Hydra, both of which are dragon-like, so I'll give you that. But it doesn't explain away beasts that legends describe as dragons, like the aforementioned gargouille, lindorm, and tatsu.

Caelus wrote:Remember, the game uses vastly over-simplifying categories not for the sake of grouping the alts in an aesthetically pleasing way, but for the sake of pairing alternate modes with appropriate icons.

Personally, I think the alt classes for V2 are being made a little more complicated than they need to be, especially between the seperate factions, but that's just me.

Caelus wrote:The "dragons" label is used instead of the awkward "Giant Airborne Fire-breathing Creature of Nondescript Classfication".

How about "Mythical Air Animal" or "Mythical Land Animal?"

See Tammuz, I told you I wouldn't shudaup.

The only complaint I have is I lose my rabbit. If I can't have my rabbit can I have ANY cute fluffy animal to rip the shreds out of an Autobot.

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Remember, the game uses vastly over-simplifying categories not for the sake of grouping the alts in an aesthetically pleasing way, but for the sake of pairing alternate modes with appropriate icons.

Personally, I think the alt classes for V2 are being made a little more complicated than they need to be, especially between the seperate factions, but that's just me.

not just you.

Thunderscream wrote:See Tammuz, I told you I wouldn't shudaup.

grrr!

Tammuz wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:See Tammuz, I told you I wouldn't shudaup.

grrr!

Whadja expect, I'm a mouthy Southern American agnostic!

Thunderscream wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:See Tammuz, I told you I wouldn't shudaup.

grrr!

Whadja expect, I'm a mouthy Southern American agnostic!

really when I lived in SC they considered anyone above NC a Yankee

Here goes:

Walker Vehicle[/b] [Fireblast/Charge/Catch]

Couldn't these be moved to Heavy Attack Vehicle? It seems that walkers are always portrayed as versatile, powerful, and slow

Large Air Animal [Drop/Dogfight/Avoid]

YES!!!!

Areal Rescue Vehicle [Strafe/Multi-Repair/Avoid]

Why is a B2 in Air rescue?

Heavy Vehicle [Ram/Absorb/Charge]
Shouldn't these be in 'destruction vehicles'?

Walker Vehicle [Fireblast/Charge/Catch]

See above....

Headmaster Creature [Headmaster/Bite/Avoid]

What is this thing?

Fighter [Avoid/Strafe/Dogfight]

These aren't fighter planes.



Now I can't wait for V2!!! Lookin' good!

Snarlus Prime wrote:Areal Rescue Vehicle [Strafe/Multi-Repair/Avoid]

Why is a B2 in Air rescue?

I don't think that's a B-2. At least, it doesn't look like one to me.

Snarlus Prime wrote:Fighter [Avoid/Strafe/Dogfight]

These aren't fighter planes.

I'll agree with you on and , but is based on the A-10 Thunderbolt II, which, while not a "fighter" per say, is an Attack Aircraft, and thus is classified close enough for government work.

Snarlus Prime wrote:Headmaster Creature [Headmaster/Bite/Avoid]

What is this thing?

It's a Trigon, from Warhammer 40,000. Giant organic wrecking machine.

kaijubot_uk wrote:

Snarlus Prime wrote:Headmaster Creature [Headmaster/Bite/Avoid]

What is this thing?

It's a Trigon, from Warhammer 40,000. Giant organic wrecking machine.

they must have added units in the past year or two then...

thanks!
S.P.

Thunderscream wrote:

Snarlus Prime wrote:Areal Rescue Vehicle [Strafe/Multi-Repair/Avoid]

Why is a B2 in Air rescue?

I don't think that's a B-2. At least, it doesn't look like one to me.

I'm pretty sure it is - it looks exactly like one of my micromasters, and I'm pretty sure he is a stylized B2

Thunderscream wrote:

Snarlus Prime wrote:Fighter [Avoid/Strafe/Dogfight]

These aren't fighter planes.

I'll agree with you on and , but is based on the A-10 Thunderbolt II, which, while not a "fighter" per say, is an Attack Aircraft, and thus is classified close enough for government work.

Yeah, but the A-10 is and anti-tank plane that flies very low. I think it is classified as a "forward operations unit" , or something like that. I doesn't see much (if any) air v. air combat. It is very slow as well (though exceptionally hardy).

I'm a bit biased towards it as it is one of my very favorite planes (and Powerglide was one of my first TFs) - so I apologize if I'm being overly critical.

-S.P.

Snarlus Prime wrote:Yeah, but the A-10 is and anti-tank plane that flies very low. I think it is classified as a "forward operations unit" , or something like that. I doesn't see much (if any) air v. air combat. It is very slow as well (though exceptionally hardy).

Compared to a F-16 or F-15, no, it's not very fast, but then, as you said it wasn't designed to be a dogfighter. Though I think it is credited with a couple of helicopter kills during the first Gulf War. It's also fairly agile and yes, durable.

Thunderscream wrote:Compared to a F-16 or F-15, no, it's not very fast, but then, as you said it wasn't designed to be a dogfighter. Though I think it is credited with a couple of helicopter kills during the first Gulf War. It's also fairly agile and yes, durable.

Yes, very agile. Lets just agree that the plane rocks and let the HMW guys put where they want for game balance.

I enjoyed our brief discussion though - it was quite refreshing after the 'Scalper' thread.... yeesh. (if you didn't read it save yourself the trouble and don't go back to read it now....)

Best regards,
S.P.

Other thing to remember is we have the "Interceptor" as well as the "Fighter", and the Interceptor class is the one that emphasizes air-superiority.

You'll notice that with the"Fighter" class the A-10 get's Strafe as its second tactic, and strafe is of course a close air-support attack and fits the A-10 well. Dogfight however is its third tactic, representing the fact that only highly experienced Transformers can successfully dogfight in A-10 form.

And that's not a B-2. I keep thinking that it's the Autobot Shuttle from Beast Wars, but it doesn't look quite right. When I hear what it is I'm pretty sure I'll have a 'doh' moment.

Edit: For preference I'd say that the Blackbirds should be "Air-planes" for the stealth quality, if not in a seperate "Spy-plane" class. And Having catch as a tactic does seem wierd for the walkers, though I can see charge.

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Remember, the game uses vastly over-simplifying categories not for the sake of grouping the alts in an aesthetically pleasing way, but for the sake of pairing alternate modes with appropriate icons.

Personally, I think the alt classes for V2 are being made a little more complicated than they need to be, especially between the seperate factions, but that's just me.

Well, look at it this way: I think the general intent is to get as many tactic combinations as possible. Each alt carries 3 tactics in v2, and when you consider the number of tactics in the new game (a lot), and also the fact that the order of the tactics assigned to the alts is variable... Well, the short version is, you wind up with a lot of Alt-Classes to name.

Caelus wrote:Other thing to remember is we have the "Interceptor" as well as the "Fighter", and the Interceptor class is the one that emphasizes air-superiority.

You'll notice that with the"Fighter" class the A-10 get's Strafe as its second tactic, and strafe is of course a close air-support attack and fits the A-10 well. Dogfight however is its third tactic, representing the fact that only highly experienced Transformers can successfully dogfight in A-10 form.

And that's not a B-2. I keep thinking that it's the Autobot Shuttle from Beast Wars, but it doesn't look quite right. When I hear what it is I'm pretty sure I'll have a 'doh' moment.

Micromaster Tread Bolt: http://tfu.info/1990/Autobot/TreadBolt/vehiclemode.jpg

Caelus wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Remember, the game uses vastly over-simplifying categories not for the sake of grouping the alts in an aesthetically pleasing way, but for the sake of pairing alternate modes with appropriate icons.

Personally, I think the alt classes for V2 are being made a little more complicated than they need to be, especially between the seperate factions, but that's just me.

Well, look at it this way: I think the general intent is to get as many tactic combinations as possible. Each alt carries 3 tactics in v2, and when you consider the number of tactics in the new game (a lot), and also the fact that the order of the tactics assigned to the alts is variable... Well, the short version is, you wind up with a lot of Alt-Classes to name.

Bingo. I'm also trying to get a different feel for each side. For example, the Autobots have air vehicles that can multi-repair because it's more "Autobot-ish" to have some who are willing to heal rather than fight. The cons shuttle only repairs one at a time because most decepticons would rather cause damage than fix it.

Mkall wrote:Micromaster Tread Bolt: http://www.tfu.info/1990/Autobot/TreadB ... adbolt.htm

Aaahhh... So obviously it is supposed to look like a Stealth Bomber, but being made in 1990, and having large amounts of robot-mode kibble, it fails painfully.

Really wish that the four factions were combined into two, mainly because my team is a Predicon/Decepicon team, and I could finally get a alt that is close to Aviana's true function (sniper/medic) Something that allowed me to have a 10/2 split of my team would be great. More viable animal alts for Silverbolt and Aviana then the poor selection (with obvious reasons) then what the Cons have.

Also wish that Decatron's alt was added, saw one that was based off of a custom of mine but it wasn't Decaton...it was one that I don't have a character for. Pity. Perhaps if the character is good enough eventually he could earn a uber super special one.

Much rather he be the only character that could have it anyway.

Alts all look good though and there are plenty of them.