The Energon Pub

[Sledge]

Sorry, but I can't see how you've lost exclusivity. You were sold the figure on the grounds that there would be 1500 of it. There still are. Takara are making a different exclusive. To be totally honest, it seems like you WANT something to complain about.

[Sunstar]

Sorry, but I can't see how you've lost exclusivity. You were sold the figure on the grounds that there would be 1500 of it. There still are. Takara are making a different exclusive. To be totally honest, it seems like you WANT something to complain about.

QFT. I do recall a point where some of us who were upset or disappointed in the fact we'd have issues trying to get a botcon set, we were basically told to suck it up in a stickied post.

I do however believe this issue has been beaten to death like a very very dead horse. What's happened is not going to change the future, and like most of us who could not get a botcon set, we simply moved on with our collecting lives. Anyway by the time I could have gotten a botcon tc, I was sol as they were sold out. Anywho, that's besides the point.

It's going to happen, Henkei is going to be released unless something truly unforseen happens. Like a meteor that is going to hit earth or something, what will you do? Panic and run around or enjoy life? It's not the end of the world at all.

[GetterDragun]

I don't understand how people are saying BotCon and Henkei TC are different figures. This would be like saying that Encore TC and Hasbro Reissue TC are just as different as Brave Max and Fort Max.

[Sowndwave76]

I don't understand how people are saying BotCon and Henkei TC are different figures. This would be like saying that Encore TC and Hasbro Reissue TC are just as different as Brave Max and Fort Max.

There's nothing to try and understand, because they're so similar that trying to say they're different doesn't make sense...
Are there some small differences? Yeah.
But to say they're totally different figures????

Imagine all of the reactions if no one had seen the Henkei version yet,
and it was advertised as "a clearly different figure from Botcon Thundercracker".
No matter which stance you're taking in this debate, once pictures were released, everyone would be questioning Henkei's definition of "clearly different".
There would probably be a thread full of Henkei mocking, even from people who wanted this figure to be released.

[Sledge]

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible example. The Hasbro and Encore reissues are both reissues of the same figure. They SHOULD look the same. Based on the images released so far, Henkei TC will be easily differentiated from Botcon TC by anyone with an interest in the matter. So your precious exclusivity is intact.

I honestly think you're just making yourself miserable at this point. You're getting quite worked up about losing something that isn't being lost.

[Emperor Galvatron]

I can't help but laugh, I really can't. Not at anyone's particular viewpoint on "exclusives" but just that it's all about this one in particular.

Other exclusives have come and gone, been reproduced in other countries. Others have remained as they are and never seen the light of day outside their original product run... Yet, Thundercracker has inspired countless threads that have been cropping up for over a year since his inception, and he's managed to piss off just about everyone on either side of the coin. I can see Thundercracker going on to be a character with somewhat of a permanent taboo attached to his name, as whenever it's mentioned people will always think back to this debacle.

Thundercracker... he really must be a special guy.

The point you're missing is that who's to say that Thundercracker is the last? Will Thrust get released in Henkei? Will Dreadwing? What about Alpha Trion? Or any other past releases?

[Sledge]

And if they do get released, will Botcon be ruined FOREVER?

[Tekka]

I can't help but laugh, I really can't. Not at anyone's particular viewpoint on "exclusives" but just that it's all about this one in particular.

Other exclusives have come and gone, been reproduced in other countries. Others have remained as they are and never seen the light of day outside their original product run... Yet, Thundercracker has inspired countless threads that have been cropping up for over a year since his inception, and he's managed to piss off just about everyone on either side of the coin. I can see Thundercracker going on to be a character with somewhat of a permanent taboo attached to his name, as whenever it's mentioned people will always think back to this debacle.

Thundercracker... he really must be a special guy.

The point you're missing is that who's to say that Thundercracker is the last? Will Thrust get released in Henkei? Will Dreadwing? What about Alpha Trion? Or any other past releases?

Of course the future is always up for grabs, but possible future releases aren't part of the point I was making at all, it's not even the same subject. The point was, Thundercracker may have this curse of a topic hanging over him forever.

[Sunstar]

And if they do get released, will Botcon be ruined FOREVER?

That's quite funny to read.

[GetterDragun]

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible example. The Hasbro and Encore reissues are both reissues of the same figure. They SHOULD look the same. Based on the images released so far, Henkei TC will be easily differentiated from Botcon TC by anyone with an interest in the matter. So your precious exclusivity is intact.

I honestly think you're just making yourself miserable at this point. You're getting quite worked up about losing something that isn't being lost.

I don't get it, Classics is Henkei, like Encore is compared to the Hasbro reissues. These are not different toys. It's like saying the Galaxy Force line is completely different than Cybertron.

[DavidT]

OMG!!!! Will this bickering ever end????


Obviously neither side is gonna give up. If you haven't convinced someone to change their opinion by now then you are wasting you energy.

Now STOP this madness or I'll sick my Cat on ya!

[Sledge]

I don't get it, Classics is Henkei, like Encore is compared to the Hasbro reissues. These are not different toys. It's like saying the Galaxy Force line is completely different than Cybertron.

G1 Thundercracker was the same toy whether you bought the Takara or the Hasbro one. Therefore, the Hasbro and Takara reissues will look the same, because they are reissues of the same toy. Henkei and Botcon TC do not look the same, therefore your analogy doesn't work.

[Tekka]

A little off topic but... That is sooo adorable... I just want to love it and squeeze it and take it home with me, and subjugate it to my every whim.

[GetterDragun]

A little off topic but... That is sooo adorable... I just want to love it and squeeze it and take it home with me, and subjugate it to my every whim.

How they had different accesories?

[Kibble]

OMG!!!! Will this bickering ever end????

Obviously neither side is gonna give up. If you haven't convinced someone to change their opinion by now then you are wasting you energy.

I think the more pressing question is will that bish in your signature ever recognize?

[Sowndwave76]

Come on now...
When you look at these two figures, how can anyone say they're completely different????
It all boils down to the fact that when cost, production run, how the figures were sold, etc. are set aside,
these are the same figures with some fairly minor changes in details.

Compare it to what we'll see with the Nemesis figures:
If the Japanese version has the red windows, that won't make it a different figure.
People may like it more or less because of that, but it's not a completely different figure.

And by the way, this has been very civil. I definitely wouldn't call this bickering.

[DavidT]

And by the way, this has been very civil. I definitely wouldn't call this bickering.

Call it what you want. I started this Topic with the intentions of informing the transfandom that they could buy Henkei Thundercracker at BigBadToyStore.

Now a handful of people have "hijacked", for lack of a better word at the moment, this thread with their "opinions". It just seems to be going nowhere and it's the same thing over and over. Personally, I wish the handful of members that keep going back and forth, back and forth, would just P.M. each other.

The title is "BBTS Has Henkei Thundercracker By Itself For PreOrder"
not
"Henkei T.C. vs. Botcon T.C."

[Geekee1]

"Henkei T.C. vs. Botcon T.C."

To the death! This time it's personal!

[Sowndwave76]

And by the way, this has been very civil. I definitely wouldn't call this bickering.

Call it what you want. I started this Topic with the intentions of informing the transfandom that they could buy Henkei Thundercracker at BigBadToyStore.

Now a handful of people have "hijacked", for lack of a better word at the moment, this thread with their "opinions". It just seems to be going nowhere and it's the same thing over and over. Personally, I wish the handful of members that keep going back and forth, back and forth, would just P.M. each other.

The title is "BBTS Has Henkei Thundercracker By Itself For PreOrder"
not
"Henkei T.C. vs. Botcon T.C."

A lot of people appreciate that you gave such a huge heads-up to the forum.
I definitely appreciate when threads like this pop up. It's a great surprise.
But in the grand scheme, what did you think would happen in this thread?
Since I've been posting here (which hasn't been that long, but there's thankfully a lot to read here all the time),
this topic has been more debated than any other.
People talk and discuss issues like scale, repaints, etc.,
but the Seekers issue has been heatedly talked about,
and I learned very quickly that some people are sick of it because it's been debated so intensely and so much.
This thread started on this path on the first page.
Not to mention, there are posts in this thread that people can learn from.
As long as it's civil, going deep into a conversation can be good because it forces people to justify their opinions.

[MagnusPrimal]

Getter is a collector. I don't mean in the way that we're all collecting toys. He is buying, in part, due to the collectable and increasing worth aspect of some toys. When Fun Publications says that their set is exclusive and will not be offered anywhere else; when people buy the sets based on that assumption, then they are going to be somewhat angry by even a small reversal of policy.


Most others are saying, "Forget BotCon, it's elitist and we want all things to be equal. We don't care about your side of the equation because your side is based in a principal which we find disagreeable."

I'm only chiming in here because Getter is arguing a difficult issue alone and I'm not sure his point is coming across the way it should.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I understand what he's saying. I simply don't agree that the Botcon figures are no longer exclusives. To me, as long at the paint applications are different, they're not the same figure. Heck, isn't the Henkai one even a different shade of blue, in addition to the different decos? To me, it's the same character, different exclusives. Getter feels they're too close, which is where we differ.

I'm not bothering to argue about the merits of Botcon or exclusives here, as to me that is not the point to this thread.

[DavidT]

And by the way, this has been very civil. I definitely wouldn't call this bickering.

Call it what you want. I started this Topic with the intentions of informing the transfandom that they could buy Henkei Thundercracker at BigBadToyStore.

Now a handful of people have "hijacked", for lack of a better word at the moment, this thread with their "opinions". It just seems to be going nowhere and it's the same thing over and over. Personally, I wish the handful of members that keep going back and forth, back and forth, would just P.M. each other.

The title is "BBTS Has Henkei Thundercracker By Itself For PreOrder"
not
"Henkei T.C. vs. Botcon T.C."

A lot of people appreciate that you gave such a huge heads-up to the forum.
I definitely appreciate when threads like this pop up. It's a great surprise.
But in the grand scheme, what did you think would happen in this thread?
Since I've been posting here (which hasn't been that long, but there's thankfully a lot to read here all the time),
this topic has been more debated than any other.
People talk and discuss issues like scale, repaints, etc.,
but the Seekers issue has been heatedly talked about,
and I learned very quickly that some people are sick of it because it's been debated so intensely and so much.
This thread started on this path on the first page.
Not to mention, there are posts in this thread that people can learn from.
As long as it's civil, going deep into a conversation can be good because it forces people to justify their opinions.

I get that and I can appreciate that. At this point I don't believe anyone can learn anymore than what has already been said

[MagnusPrimal]

I can't help but laugh, I really can't. Not at anyone's particular viewpoint on "exclusives" but just that it's all about this one in particular.

Other exclusives have come and gone, been reproduced in other countries. Others have remained as they are and never seen the light of day outside their original product run... Yet, Thundercracker has inspired countless threads that have been cropping up for over a year since his inception, and he's managed to piss off just about everyone on either side of the coin. I can see Thundercracker going on to be a character with somewhat of a permanent taboo attached to his name, as whenever it's mentioned people will always think back to this debacle.

Thundercracker... he really must be a special guy.

The point you're missing is that who's to say that Thundercracker is the last? Will Thrust get released in Henkei? Will Dreadwing? What about Alpha Trion? Or any other past releases?

I hope so. Dirge too. But make them different from the Botcon set. Different wings, different shades of paint, different paint apps. Like they did with TC.

[GetterDragun]

And by the way, this has been very civil. I definitely wouldn't call this bickering.

Call it what you want. I started this Topic with the intentions of informing the transfandom that they could buy Henkei Thundercracker at BigBadToyStore.

Now a handful of people have "hijacked", for lack of a better word at the moment, this thread with their "opinions". It just seems to be going nowhere and it's the same thing over and over. Personally, I wish the handful of members that keep going back and forth, back and forth, would just P.M. each other.

The title is "BBTS Has Henkei Thundercracker By Itself For PreOrder"
not
"Henkei T.C. vs. Botcon T.C."

A lot of people appreciate that you gave such a huge heads-up to the forum.
I definitely appreciate when threads like this pop up. It's a great surprise.
But in the grand scheme, what did you think would happen in this thread?
Since I've been posting here (which hasn't been that long, but there's thankfully a lot to read here all the time),
this topic has been more debated than any other.
People talk and discuss issues like scale, repaints, etc.,
but the Seekers issue has been heatedly talked about,
and I learned very quickly that some people are sick of it because it's been debated so intensely and so much.
This thread started on this path on the first page.
Not to mention, there are posts in this thread that people can learn from.
As long as it's civil, going deep into a conversation can be good because it forces people to justify their opinions.

I'm glad you see that. I'm using this argument to define a few questions:

What is an Exclusive?

When are figures different enough to be considered different figure?

The Botcon thing is just the representative example that these questions can be applied to.

[DavidT]

I'm glad you see that. I'm using this argument to define a few questions:

What is an Exclusive?

When are figures different enough to be considered different figure?

The Botcon thing is just the representative example that these questions can be applied to.

An exclusive is something that is unique either by color, mold, or name, etc., and made only available from a certain source.

Hotwheels are a good example. Wal-Mart and K-mart have exclusive hotwheels all the time. The only difference between their exclusives and the general distribution of the same cars is color. The molds and names are exactly the same except for color.

Figures are different enough when any part of them is different whether it be color, mold, name, etc. Target's Deep Space Movie Starscream is limited in numbers and all he has is some slightly different colors.

[Sowndwave76]

An exclusive is something that is unique either by color, mold, or name, etc., and made only available from a certain source.

I don't think a unique name justifies "exclusive".
Also, what about store exclusives that end up being available online?

Figures are different enough when any part of them is different whether it be color, mold, name, etc. Target's Deep Space Movie Starscream is limited in numbers and all he has is some slightly different colors.

Getter's asking what's the bare-minimum that crosses the line into new figure territory.
Seems again that name doesn't justify your point.
Mold is obvious.
If you're talking color, I'd assume there'd have to be a certain percentage that is considerably different.
Imo, D.S.SS's colors/finish are quite a bit different than the original.