The Energon Pub

All this silly posturing is pointless, and isn't going to get us anywhere.

Instead why don't we find out how Thundercracker feels about all this.

bloodyfeast wrote:1. I'm pretty sure the classics did die. A lot of classics had to be clearanced off and the interest was very slow building. It was the movie that gave these toys a new lease of life, and brought a lot of people back to the Transformers world.

I understand that the sales at that point were terrible for a few or even some of the figures.
But the decision that there was never going to come a time that classic characters could be done again was obviously wrong.
I also understand that hindsight is 20/20...
However, something similar to the statement about putting the Universe line on hold once the movie line comes back should've been made back then. Even if the statement would've included, "the line will indefinitely be put on the back burner".
Classics only produced, what, 14 voyager and deluxe figures?
Even if half of the G1 characters had been produced, I still would say "closing the door" completely would be a questionable move.

bloodyfeast wrote:2. The botcon 'Games of Deception' set wasn't really a classics release. It was a straight G1 version of the unreleased (classics) seekers using classics molds, with the exception of Thrust which had a different mold for the wings.

That's all well and good... But the point here is that once the Botcon set came out, it pretty much meant that those characters would never then have the chance to be released at mass retail IF the line or classic characters ever came back.
And 2 years after that, look at where we are.

bloodyfeast wrote:6. It would be a service to the entire fandom for Henkei to release a decent Dirge, with an acceptable wing mold.

Absolutely.

bloodyfeast wrote:7. With the release of Ramjet it is (in my opinion) obvious that Henkei are planning on releasing all 6 seekers.

Now that we have a Henkei Thundercracker, I don't doubt this at all.

What exactly are you arguing with? Hasbro regarded the line as dead. They had no intention of returning to it at the time the deal with Funpub was made. You may think that's stupid, but... who cares? They obviously had their reasons, and just as obviously, those reasons changed.

Sledge wrote:What exactly are you arguing with? Hasbro regarded the line as dead. They had no intention of returning to it at the time the deal with Funpub was made. You may think that's stupid, but... who cares? They obviously had their reasons, and just as obviously, those reasons changed.

With how long this topic has been talked about, debated, and now revived with the Henkei release,
I think there are plenty of people that care.
I have sympathy for people on both sides of the issue, which is why I brought up my first post.

Whether you care or not, do you think it was a good decision by Hasbro?

I mean, who cares what you think? Look, people have asked why Hasbro made the decision that they did. Counterpunch has answered that so many times, I think my eyes are about to bleed. Your contribution of "well that's stupid" is neither helpful or insightful. It's just petulant. "Waa, I can't get the toy I wanted, Hasbro are teh suxx."

necare wrote:Unreal all the crying and whining from both ends of this subject.

I think it's ok to be angry with Hasbro for making these figures Botcon exclusives. But let's face it, if you bought one of those figures STOP BITCHING!!!

Honestly, the only people that are upset are collectors that look at the value of the product. But the value means nothing until it's sold, so in essence the only people that should be upset are scalpers or those that paid scalpers prices! NO SYMPATHY!!!

If you bought the figures from Botcon directly, you didn't pay 250 for a TC, you paid, what $50 or $75 if you value the TC more than say Dreadwind which it should be.

So the price of 250 comes from, yes supply and demand, but it's the market that supports the scalpers. You buy a figure and then within the year sell it for 3 times the amount. And now that another company is taking advantage of a popular mold and you cannot get your scalped prices you are bitter!

The Figures of Botcon ARE retaining their ORIGINAL value, not the SCALPED value! SO FU SCALPERS!! And for the fools paying for the scalped prices....patience is a vurtue!

Now I paid for a Botcon Thrust about $100. If Henkei comes out with one I am not going to whine and cry like a little girl. I bought my figure to have, not to resell at some future point. I just wanted the figure without any care that it is a ONE OF A KIND or EXCLUSIVE!!!

Elitists HA HA!! Scalpers GO HOME!!!

YAY FOR TAKARA AND HASBRO for creating such a great topic to bitch about!

This has to be the sillyest post ever in one of these threads. So now Botcon attendees are automitcally scalpers? That's just dumb.

I have to agree in part with GD here. That is a silly post for sure.

Hey, speaking of scalpers…



RETURNS!

nope,not silly at all, unless you infer incorrectly the point.

I never said all Botcon purchasers are scalpers, I never said anyone paying scalper prices were scalpers.

Those that have sold the items at scalped prices ARE scalpers. People that bought 2 or 3 or 4 of the same figures to be sold at a later date are scalpers.

Why would someone really be upset if they purchased a Botcon set. They are either elitist (meaning wanting something that no one else has), or they are scalpers (meaning they expect they can sell said item at a massive mark up as was the case on ebay) in both cases I think these people are scum bags.

Those that collect these figures for display shouldn't care if the price goes up a lot or a little if they are never going to sell!.

You both Sirs, are the silly ones.

necare wrote:nope,not silly at all, unless you infer incorrectly the point.

I never said all Botcon purchasers are scalpers, I never said anyone paying scalper prices were scalpers.

Those that have sold the items at scalped prices ARE scalpers. People that bought 2 or 3 or 4 of the same figures to be sold at a later date are scalpers.

Why would someone really be upset if they purchased a Botcon set. They are either elitist (meaning wanting something that no one else has), or they are scalpers (meaning they expect they can sell said item at a massive mark up as was the case on ebay) in both cases I think these people are scum bags.

Those that collect these figures for display shouldn't care if the price goes up a lot or a little if they are never going to sell!.

You both Sirs, are the silly ones.

Haha, it takes a 'special' kind of person to buy a re-paint of a small $10 toy for $200+.
It also takes a 'special' type of person to invest hundreds of $$$ on boxsets of pretty bland re-paints of $10 toys.

What are 'scalped' prices?
I collect records (punk/ metal etc) and when a record is 'pressed' it costs about Aus$4.50 and is sold for about Aus$20. If I buy more than one and re-sell it when the press is sold out for a premium am I a scalper?

Aren't prices just determained by what the market is willing to pay?
Surely you can't blame the seller for what the consumer is willing to pay?

Why is the market willing to pay so much for so little?

necare wrote:nope,not silly at all, unless you infer incorrectly the point.

I never said all Botcon purchasers are scalpers, I never said anyone paying scalper prices were scalpers.

Those that have sold the items at scalped prices ARE scalpers. People that bought 2 or 3 or 4 of the same figures to be sold at a later date are scalpers.

Why would someone really be upset if they purchased a Botcon set. They are either elitist (meaning wanting something that no one else has), or they are scalpers (meaning they expect they can sell said item at a massive mark up as was the case on ebay) in both cases I think these people are scum bags.

Those that collect these figures for display shouldn't care if the price goes up a lot or a little if they are never going to sell!.

You both Sirs, are the silly ones.

What about buying an Exclusive? These wre supposed to be Exclusive and they are not. So what about the person who spent the money just to go to BotCon just to get Exclusives and now they could have gotten it outside the convention for a lot less (less because you could not buy a Thundercracker without getting all the figures)? That is not elitist. I personally think people calling someone who bought a BotCon set is simply jealous.

And I've seen people list BotCon Thundercracker for 99 cents, and it has sold high, so how are they scalpers? BotCon Thundercracker (was) a rare figure, the production quantities dictate the market value, not the price you pay for it at BotCon. Anyway, most of this scalper nonsense is brought by people who don't understand that simple economics can also apply to a repaint of a figure that is produced in low quantity.

And if you continue to call people scumbags and other insults, you're going to get a warning.

necare wrote:nope,not silly at all, unless you infer incorrectly the point.

I never said all Botcon purchasers are scalpers, I never said anyone paying scalper prices were scalpers.

Those that have sold the items at scalped prices ARE scalpers. People that bought 2 or 3 or 4 of the same figures to be sold at a later date are scalpers.

Why would someone really be upset if they purchased a Botcon set. They are either elitist (meaning wanting something that no one else has), or they are scalpers (meaning they expect they can sell said item at a massive mark up as was the case on ebay) in both cases I think these people are scum bags.

Those that collect these figures for display shouldn't care if the price goes up a lot or a little if they are never going to sell!.

You both Sirs, are the silly ones.

You said the magic word! I sir, will put my monocle on for you.


*edited, 'cause I'm like that*

I myself try collect some rare figures. Wanna know why? 'Cause I like 'em that's why.

It's kinda cool to have a figure in your case that not everybody else is going to have. It's a special figure and when you look at it, it stands out.

So I guess that makes me elitist, but at least I'm not a scalper huh?

GetterDragun wrote:What about buying an Exclusive? These wre supposed to be Exclusive and they are not. So what about the person who spent the money just to go to BotCon just to get Exclusives and now they could have gotten it outside the convention for a lot less (less because you could not buy a Thundercracker without getting all the figures)? That is not elitist.

Mmmm
* The boxset is still 'exclusive' no-one else has released a "Games of Deception" boxset.
* There has never been a 'classics' release of thundercracker, dirge, thrust, dreadwing or goldbug. The closest thing to this is the 'games of deception' boxset. It is totally exclusive.
The main problem is that funpub didn't stick with the theme. They decided for whatever reason to release G1 repaints of classics molds. It is this over the top G1 blinkered mentality that is to blame for this whole mess.
-GoD thundercracker is a G1 repaint of classics starscream... no real thought just G1 all the way. It should have been a classics update but it wasn't
-GoD dirge was a bad colour scheme on a the wrong toy. The only imagination involved is the imagination it takes to not call this one 'blue ramjet'.
-GoD thrust was good. But it was too G1 to be considered a 'classic'... again no real thought went into it.
* The henkei Thundercracker is based on the henkei range of classics repaints. It fits with the range and is suitably esclusive to the japanese market.

Was there a disclaimer on the box or any of the botcon sites that stated that the names (thundercracker, dirge, thrust, dreadwing, goldbug) would be retired from any toy that resembled the classics range?

necare wrote:Assinine comments.

Who is more 'elitist': the man who thinks he is better because he has something most don't have or the self-righteous who judge him?

When someone earns enough money to buy what they want, and then makes the purchase, they can do with it whatever the hell they want. I fund a lot of my future TF purchases with sales of old TFs. I list them on 'evil'Bay and sometimes make a profit off of them. Most times not. There are no guarantees that any toy will fetch high dollars. It's absurd to think so.

People that bought TC or any past exclusive are not elitists, nor are any of them who sold them later scalpers. Maybe if you had saved your money and made smart decisions you could have gotten to go or to buy this set as a non-attending.

I do know this though. Everyone should be concerned about how this ended up. FunPub was made a fool in this and has lost some hard earned trust in the fan community. We'll never see an exclusive set as awesome as the GoD set again.

I just hope the non-elitist, non-scalpers are fianlly happy.

bloodyfeast wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:What about buying an Exclusive? These wre supposed to be Exclusive and they are not. So what about the person who spent the money just to go to BotCon just to get Exclusives and now they could have gotten it outside the convention for a lot less (less because you could not buy a Thundercracker without getting all the figures)? That is not elitist.

Mmmm
* The boxset is still 'exclusive' no-one else has released a "Games of Deception" boxset.
* There has never been a 'classics' release of thundercracker, dirge, thrust, dreadwing or goldbug. The closest thing to this is the 'games of deception' boxset. It is totally exclusive.
The main problem is that funpub didn't stick with the theme. They decided for whatever reason to release G1 repaints of classics molds. It is this over the top G1 blinkered mentality that is to blame for this whole mess.
-GoD thundercracker is a G1 repaint of classics starscream... no real thought just G1 all the way. It should have been a classics update but it wasn't
-GoD dirge was a bad colour scheme on a the wrong toy. The only imagination involved is the imagination it takes to not call this one 'blue ramjet'.
-GoD thrust was good. But it was too G1 to be considered a 'classic'... again no real thought went into it.
* The henkei Thundercracker is based on the henkei range of classics repaints. It fits with the range and is suitably esclusive to the japanese market.

Was there a disclaimer on the box or any of the botcon sites that stated that the names (thundercracker, dirge, thrust, dreadwing, goldbug) would be retired from any toy that resembled the classics range?

No, the boxset is now less exclusive. And I don't unsderstand your point that Thundercracker is a repaint of Starscream (well it cold be the other way around since Thundercracker was Diaclone as well). And slight variations between the Japanese figures and US figures is normal, but no one ever said beefore that they were different toys, why now?

my point is that instead of designing a new 'classics' thundercracker they simply put a G1 acurate design on the mold.

bloodyfeast wrote:my point is that instead of designing a new 'classics' thundercracker they simply put a G1 acurate design on the mold.

Since when were Starscream, Thundercracker, or Skywarp supposed to b different molds?

GetterDragun wrote:Since when were Starscream, Thundercracker, or Skywarp supposed to b different molds?

I think what he's getting at is that if you look at the paint job on the retail classics figs (Starscream, Skywap, Ramjet), they're not G1 at all. To be part of the classics line, it has to be at least slightly different from the original, paint-wise. It is true, they're all updated - like Starscream had two red stripes on the original fig, now he has half his wings red. Skywarp and Ramjet have similar situations going on also. But, those botcon figs are total G1. Thundercracker has a paint scheme identical to G1. Thrust too. Dirge is about as similar as it can be with the different wings. They all even have their little triangles and lines on top of their air intakes that the retail figs didn't have.

Wait so you are saying that people that went to Botcon and paid money to make the trip and buy the entire box set thinking that it was exclusive have a right to cry and whine?

Wouldn't those people have had just as much luck finding TC sold seperately on EBAY?

I'm not blaming scalpers and people that pay scalped prices, I am simply saying that those people should stop crying and whining about the new Henkei TC simply because they were taking advantage of or letting themselves GET taken advantage of the exploded market price of the figure.

I'm not a fan of scalpers, I also don't believe that people who went to Botcon are scalpers. I am simply saying that if you paid $200+ for your TC you have no one to blame but yourself, not Hasbro, and certainly not Takara.

I understand your frustration, but hey if a Thrust comes out at $50 and I already paid $100 for mine, I'm not going to sit and whine. I paid the prices and that's because I wanted the figures.

And no, I don't think that someone that resells something they have owned and liked and used and makes a profit because it's either rare or simply popular, however I do think that those that buy two or three sets of something, one for themselves and one to resell are in fact not collecting it, but HOPING to scalp it.

True scalping is selling something that is currently available for a higher price, so I should adjust the term from scalper to a less sleazy but still a bit shady term. (Any thoughts on what this should be called?)

necare wrote:Wait so you are saying that people that went to Botcon and paid money to make the trip and buy the entire box set thinking that it was exclusive have a right to cry and whine?

Wouldn't those people have had just as much luck finding TC sold seperately on EBAY?

I'm not blaming scalpers and people that pay scalped prices, I am simply saying that those people should stop crying and whining about the new Henkei TC simply because they were taking advantage of or letting themselves GET taken advantage of the exploded market price of the figure.

I'm not a fan of scalpers, I also don't believe that people who went to Botcon are scalpers. I am simply saying that if you paid $200+ for your TC you have no one to blame but yourself, not Hasbro, and certainly not Takara.

I understand your frustration, but hey if a Thrust comes out at $50 and I already paid $100 for mine, I'm not going to sit and whine. I paid the prices and that's because I wanted the figures.

And no, I don't think that someone that resells something they have owned and liked and used and makes a profit because it's either rare or simply popular, however I do think that those that buy two or three sets of something, one for themselves and one to resell are in fact not collecting it, but HOPING to scalp it.

True scalping is selling something that is currently available for a higher price, so I should adjust the term from scalper to a less sleazy but still a bit shady term. (Any thoughts on what this should be called?)

So well put.

As for me, now my collection of Classic seekers will be complete. Thanks Takara. Now, show me the MP Thundercracker!

To be honest, I haven't seen a whole hell of BotCon attendees around here doing the bitching and whining.

We'd do a lot better to keep the issue on the toys and not the people who are buying them.

GetterDragun wrote:No, the boxset is now less exclusive.

How so? The character is no longer exclusive, but the figure, with unique paint apps on that mold, is.

GetterDragun wrote: And slight variations between the Japanese figures and US figures is normal, but no one ever said beefore that they were different toys, why now?

I thought they were always treated as different toys. Isn't that where a lot of the 'Takara rocks, Hasbro sucks!' comes from? Sure, same characters, but the figures are painted different, as you pointed out.

I just can't see how the Botcon one can be considered no longer exclusive. What about the figures from this year's set? For instance, Optimus Prime and Grimlock are both exlusive figures to the set, but only their paint jobs (which granted, are much more different than the retail ones than the two TCs are to each other) differentiate the figures. Are they less exclusive because of it?

BAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! You're either naive or just plain stupid to think that the Japanese wouldn't release a Thundercracker along with Starscream and Skywarp. Stop whining about how your $300 toy you paid $50 for might take a nosedive in price. Not all of us were able to attend Botcon that year let alone afford it. You know who else couldn't attend Botcon that year? EVERY Transformers fan that lives in Japan.



CAPS EAGLE DOESN'T GIVE A **** ABOUT YOUR BOTCON THUNDERCRACKER DRAMA!!!

MagnusPrimal wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:No, the boxset is now less exclusive.

How so? The character is no longer exclusive, but the figure, with unique paint apps on that mold, is.

GetterDragun wrote: And slight variations between the Japanese figures and US figures is normal, but no one ever said beefore that they were different toys, why now?

I thought they were always treated as different toys. Isn't that where a lot of the 'Takara rocks, Hasbro sucks!' comes from? Sure, same characters, but the figures are painted different, as you pointed out.

I just can't see how the Botcon one can be considered no longer exclusive. What about the figures from this year's set? For instance, Optimus Prime and Grimlock are both exlusive figures to the set, but only their paint jobs (which granted, are much more different than the retail ones than the two TCs are to each other) differentiate the figures. Are they less exclusive because of it?

I never understood that a minor paint variance makes it a new figure. There are paint variations on US figures for the same figure. I always thought it was just production variances, but I guess some people do consider it something worth getting.

But seriously, considering variances on paint a major difference would mean that every single Galaxy Force figure is different from every US figure (and I'm not talking about that were intentionally painted compeltely different). No one ever really said this in the past, so why now?

GetterDragun wrote:What about buying an Exclusive? These wre supposed to be Exclusive and they are not. So what about the person who spent the money just to go to BotCon just to get Exclusives and now they could have gotten it outside the convention for a lot less (less because you could not buy a Thundercracker without getting all the figures)? That is not elitist. I personally think people calling someone who bought a BotCon set is simply jealous.

Blanket post to all holdin your sentiment:

Dear sir/madam. Your North American exclusives are not available to the rest of the world at the price you paid for them. Takara, a seperate company, are allowed to cater to their market, which is on the other side of the world to yours. BotCon attendees are not more important than the entire Asian fandom. Thank you for your time.