The Energon Pub

Damn. Caught this too late.

Wow - TC's all gone, he's always been my least favourite Seeker yet everyone else loves him.

Whatever, I have my pair paid for.

BBTS will probably negotiate with their surppliers to get more and then reopen preorders again.

GetterDragun wrote:I would counter that argument and say that much of the Energon Ultra Manguses were absorbed by the regular consumer market. So while the quantity produced is fairly high, what is available to the collector market is less than produced.

C'mon now. You remember damn well what happened with that Ultra Magnus hit the market. It was gone before it was on the shelf in most places.

While I certainly recognize that regular mom's and kids are the primary buyers of Transformers in the US, there is no way that a non-show, low production run, ultra class repaint of a straigh G1 homage was bought up by anyone other than collectors.

I know you're upset at the situation, but it's not like FunPub had any real control over the matter. As far as the US is concerned, TC is still an exclusive. Henkei TC's release is basically the equivilant of a Japanese BotCon release. From the beginning I've said that the only truely unfair thing about TC being in the BotCon set was that international buyers didn't get a shot at him.

To cut the knees out of the argument, it isn't even like TC is getting a general line Henkei release. He is and remains exclusive. While it might seem like everyone and their mother is ordering one, we the fan base make up a pretty small number of people comparitively.

kirbenvost wrote:

omega666 wrote:I hope your TC gets lost in the mail.

That's a little harsh.

To be fair, I did say I hoped Unicron ate him.

kirbenvost wrote:

Sunstar wrote:

kirbenvost wrote:Fan to Fan is asking $45 USD per figure plus shipping.

Out of curiosity, what is their shipping like anyway?

He quoted:

"EMS, fastest air with online tracking, US$23.34

SAL, low priority air with registration number, US$16.50"

But that is an estimate based the amount for Henkei Starscream. The final shipping cost may be more if the packaging ends up being bigger/heavier.

That truly isn't bad.

Counterpunch wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:I would counter that argument and say that much of the Energon Ultra Manguses were absorbed by the regular consumer market. So while the quantity produced is fairly high, what is available to the collector market is less than produced.

C'mon now. You remember damn well what happened with that Ultra Magnus hit the market. It was gone before it was on the shelf in most places.

While I certainly recognize that regular mom's and kids are the primary buyers of Transformers in the US, there is no way that a non-show, low production run, ultra class repaint of a straigh G1 homage was bought up by anyone other than collectors.

I know you're upset at the situation, but it's not like FunPub had any real control over the matter. As far as the US is concerned, TC is still an exclusive. Henkei TC's release is basically the equivilant of a Japanese BotCon release. From the beginning I've said that the only truely unfair thing about TC being in the BotCon set was that international buyers didn't get a shot at him.

To cut the knees out of the argument, it isn't even like TC is getting a general line Henkei release. He is and remains exclusive. While it might seem like everyone and their mother is ordering one, we the fan base make up a pretty small number of people comparitively.

I have no problem with the value or any of that. My problem is how BotCon TC was suuposed to be an "exclusive" and how at BotCon, they said that the Henkei version would be different enough to not effect the value of the BotCon TC. There was no need to say that if it wasn't true. Is being honest too much to ask?

kirbenvost wrote:

Sunstar wrote:

kirbenvost wrote:Fan to Fan is asking $45 USD per figure plus shipping.

Out of curiosity, what is their shipping like anyway?

He quoted:

"EMS, fastest air with online tracking, US$23.34

SAL, low priority air with registration number, US$16.50"

But that is an estimate based the amount for Henkei Starscream. The final shipping cost may be more if the packaging ends up being bigger/heavier.

For those that preodered from Fan2Fan, I went to the site and can not find the preorder for TC anywhere.....

GetterDragun wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:I would counter that argument and say that much of the Energon Ultra Manguses were absorbed by the regular consumer market. So while the quantity produced is fairly high, what is available to the collector market is less than produced.

C'mon now. You remember damn well what happened with that Ultra Magnus hit the market. It was gone before it was on the shelf in most places.

While I certainly recognize that regular mom's and kids are the primary buyers of Transformers in the US, there is no way that a non-show, low production run, ultra class repaint of a straigh G1 homage was bought up by anyone other than collectors.

I know you're upset at the situation, but it's not like FunPub had any real control over the matter. As far as the US is concerned, TC is still an exclusive. Henkei TC's release is basically the equivilant of a Japanese BotCon release. From the beginning I've said that the only truely unfair thing about TC being in the BotCon set was that international buyers didn't get a shot at him.

To cut the knees out of the argument, it isn't even like TC is getting a general line Henkei release. He is and remains exclusive. While it might seem like everyone and their mother is ordering one, we the fan base make up a pretty small number of people comparitively.

I have no problem with the value or any of that. My problem is how BotCon TC was suuposed to be an "exclusive" and how at BotCon, they said that the Henkei version would be different enough to not effect the value of the BotCon TC. There was no need to say that if it wasn't true. Is being honest too much to ask?

Well, to be honest myself, we don't know what Henkei Thundercracker will look like yet.

The pictures we've seen are mock ups. If you look carefully, Skywarp is just a color swap and reversal of TC.

If Henkei Thundercracker is a dark blue, ala the original G1 toy, you can bet dollars to donuts that the BotCon one will remain more desirable as the "cartoon accurate" version.

Sledge wrote:

kirbenvost wrote:

omega666 wrote:I hope your TC gets lost in the mail.

That's a little harsh.

To be fair, I did say I hoped Unicron ate him.

If someone doesn't like what's being discussed, why join in?

It's like going to a kids birthday party just to tell the kid you hate him/her.

Dealer wrote:It's like going to a kids birthday party just to tell the kid you hate him/her.

My birthday is like this every year.

Curses! I was hoping to snag one when I knew I had cash available... I did at least spot the Wal-Mart Jolt that I was after. Between that and the pending purchase of Big Daddy I'm quite pleased. Also, gotta save up for that Blue Omega Supreme/Guradian

Hex.
[ What is this!?! Is that my coffee cup that sits before me? ]

Dealer wrote:
If someone doesn't like what's being discussed, why join in?

It's like going to a kids birthday party just to tell the kid you hate him/her.

There's something wrong with that? That's my favorite part of going to children's birthday parties. Uninvited, of course.

Counterpunch wrote:

Dealer wrote:It's like going to a kids birthday party just to tell the kid you hate him/her.

My birthday is like this every year.

At least people go to yours!

Sledge wrote:To be fair, I did say I hoped Unicron ate him.

Well that's not so bad...

ZenPrime wrote:For those that preodered from Fan2Fan, I went to the site and can not find the preorder for TC anywhere.....

It's not on the site, you have to email them directly: raijinop@zas.att.ne.jp

They probably didn't list it to avoid a huge wave of emails. All of their preorders are through email anyway, I think.

Dealer wrote:If someone doesn't like what's being discussed, why join in?

It's like going to a kids birthday party just to tell the kid you hate him/her.

Who says I don't like the discussion? The toy is awesome. It's just too pricey for me. I was able to find other exclusive much cheaper and I hope to find more at a more reasonable price.

I can't help but vent a little bit...

Whether you're unhappy because you own the Botcon set,
or you feel "cheated" because this 2nd chance at a TC is via Japanese exclusive and pretty expensive (for what could have been $10),
this whole situation is on Hasbro.

I seriously don't care how many people talked to how ever many people that were involved with designing/producing the Botcon set.

To think that there would NEVER be another chance to release very popular G1 characters in "Classics form" is so funny it's not funny.

Hasbro can say whatever they want...
Who's gonna hold them accountable?
Who can????

At first I was going to say,
"Until it involves people's money, who can hold them accountable?".
But this situation does involve people's money in more than one way...
And do you think they truly care?

I don't think anyone can convince me that any one of those Seekers wouldn't have sold in a line where about half of the figures are old repaints anyway
(Heavy Load, Blaster, Springer, Blades, Roadbuster, etc.) aka Universe.
Any of these 3 Seekers would've sold decently even if the Botcon set had never been made and you take out that element of exclusiveness.

I've read people in past threads asking, "Why do people make such a big deal about the Seekers?"...
Even before all of this with the Japanese exclusives, I thought it was pretty obvious...
TC (and the rest of the Seekers) is a popular, classic character. Period.
I mean, isn't this relatively one of the most talked about/debated topics on this forum?

So my point here?
Well, I hope Hasbro cares just enough that they are able to pull their head out and think twice before making such a dumbass decision again.

It Is Him wrote:Damn. Caught this too late.

Looks like it's available again for pre-order...

Just glad I don't give a damn about the seekers, at least not in having one of each repaint...way too spendy. I already think I'm out of my mind ordering the Magnus armor.

Although I was considering getting one just to sell...but I decided a) there are much better ways to go about making 100 bucks or so, and b) how long is it going to take to double its value? Probably a safe enough investment and all, but not exactly worth the time for about a 100 bucks either...

Ehh, I think in fairness that Shattered Glass is a pretty fair indicator that Hasbro learned its lesson the only borderline character in it is Jazz, and I'm still rooting that they'll do a classics version of him....its almost inevitable given that he's getting an Animated form, and Legends toy...

Sowndwave76 wrote:I seriously don't care how many people talked to how ever many people that were involved with designing/producing the Botcon set.

"Everytime I try to get out, they pull me back in..."

Woe, WOE unto me and the unfair nature of my current situation. Woe to me and my inability to respond adequately to the above statement.

For while it is cool for you to complain about your situation, my response would be seen as terrbily mean and elitist.

I honestly feel bad for myself. My minority rights (being the owner of BC Thundercracker) are being trampled on, for to express my viewpoint on the matter is quite wrong indeed.

What am I saying? It's like I forgot who I was there for a second.

You essentially call me out on the matter because I and a few others went and got factual answers on the subject.

You ignore reasonable responses and basic facts about the situation.

At this point, you're essentially trolling the topic.

Would you care to debate the matter with me openly on these forums? I'll do it. We can lay it all out on the line, go over everything one final time and see where it gets us.

These little rants in the face of known facts and quantities about the Thundercracker situation are becoming nothing but thinly veiled attempts at Trolling. Either find some genuine way to contribute, buy a Henkei Thundercracker, or knock it the hell off.

(and that debate offer, it's genuine. Any time. I'm your Huckleberry.)

Do you by any chance have two guns, one for each of him?

NotEnoughKibble wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Damn. Caught this too late.

Looks like it's available again for pre-order...

Thanks for the heads up, got mine pre-ordered earlier tonight

Oh I love this topic so much. I love the whole have/ have not debate... the jealous way some covet others collections... the way those who have these things feel like they are superior, a cut above the "average" collector. It's almost sad to see it all go, with barely a whimper.

I don't have a botcon thundercracker, just couldn't see the point in paying so much money for a small toy. I wasn't tuned in to this whole thing when botcon '07 was released, by the time I opened my eyes they were $500+ for the box and $150+ for the toys.
I really had an urge to get a Dirge... but the botcon one was a ridiculous repaint of Ramjet. So I purchased another Ramjet and some paint and made this;


After this was finished I wanted to do more painting. I found a Starscream/ Rodimus two pack and made a thundercracker and altered Rodimus so that his top would open;

I could still do more work to thundercracker... and probably will at some point. But he looks pretty good in robot form posed with starscream and skywarp.

I did consider pre-ordering the new Henkei Skywarp and thundercracker. The paint looks nice and would only be about 3 times the average shelf price of these toys in Australia.
The main reason I eventually decided not too was because mine are "classics" and the Henkei ones are "G1 repaints" of "classics".

That's the other thing I didn't like about the botcon seekers, after the price tag, they are all just unimaginative, regressive repaints of the classics. Of course I exclude Thrust from this because of the actual work that went into the new wings.
It's like they didn't stick with the theme of the toys and just went as G1 as possible.

Unreal all the crying and whining from both ends of this subject.

I think it's ok to be angry with Hasbro for making these figures Botcon exclusives. But let's face it, if you bought one of those figures STOP BITCHING!!!

Honestly, the only people that are upset are collectors that look at the value of the product. But the value means nothing until it's sold, so in essence the only people that should be upset are scalpers or those that paid scalpers prices! NO SYMPATHY!!!

If you bought the figures from Botcon directly, you didn't pay 250 for a TC, you paid, what $50 or $75 if you value the TC more than say Dreadwind which it should be.

So the price of 250 comes from, yes supply and demand, but it's the market that supports the scalpers. You buy a figure and then within the year sell it for 3 times the amount. And now that another company is taking advantage of a popular mold and you cannot get your scalped prices you are bitter!

The Figures of Botcon ARE retaining their ORIGINAL value, not the SCALPED value! SO FU SCALPERS!! And for the fools paying for the scalped prices....patience is a vurtue!

Now I paid for a Botcon Thrust about $100. If Henkei comes out with one I am not going to whine and cry like a little girl. I bought my figure to have, not to resell at some future point. I just wanted the figure without any care that it is a ONE OF A KIND or EXCLUSIVE!!!

Elitists HA HA!! Scalpers GO HOME!!!

YAY FOR TAKARA AND HASBRO for creating such a great topic to bitch about!

Counterpunch wrote:Woe, WOE unto me and the unfair nature of my current situation. Woe to me and my inability to respond adequately to the above statement.

For while it is cool for you to complain about your situation, my response would be seen as terrbily mean and elitist.

I honestly feel bad for myself. My minority rights (being the owner of BC Thundercracker) are being trampled on, for to express my viewpoint on the matter is quite wrong indeed.

What am I saying? It's like I forgot who I was there for a second.

You essentially call me out on the matter because I and a few others went and got factual answers on the subject.

You ignore reasonable responses and basic facts about the situation.

At this point, you're essentially trolling the topic.

Would you care to debate the matter with me openly on these forums? I'll do it. We can lay it all out on the line, go over everything one final time and see where it gets us.

These little rants in the face of known facts and quantities about the Thundercracker situation are becoming nothing but thinly veiled attempts at Trolling. Either find some genuine way to contribute, buy a Henkei Thundercracker, or knock it the hell off.

(and that debate offer, it's genuine. Any time. I'm your Huckleberry.)

Hold on... My whole point is that Hasbro was extremely foolish for releasing these characters as exclusives.
Saying "I don't care how many people...." was not meant to call any individual out. What would be the point of that?
I've already said that I believe those conversations that you and others had with whoever were legit.
What I meant is that it obviously doesn't matter what was said back then, and it doesn't matter how many people heard it.
If you felt I was "trolling", then I apologize...
And I'm not sure what there is to debate.
With whatever facts you know about any of this, I personally think boils down to this:
"The Classics line is dead", and "These Seekers are exclusive to this Botcon convention"...
Looking at the current situation, seems to me that Hasbro should've never made these statements.

With the release of the Henkei version of Thundercracker, there are still people unhappy on both sides.
All I was saying is that Hasbro's decisions are the cause of all of this.
I'm not sure how that's debatable either.
Is it wrong that Henkei made Thundercracker a Japanese exclusive??
Maybe... But this all started with the Botcon set.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Hold on... My whole point is that Hasbro was extremely foolish for releasing these characters as exclusives.
Saying "I don't care how many people...." was not meant to call any individual out. What would be the point of that?
I've already said that I believe those conversations that you and others had with whoever were legit.
What I meant is that it obviously doesn't matter what was said back then, and it doesn't matter how many people heard it.
If you felt I was "trolling", then I apologize...
And I'm not sure what there is to debate.
With whatever facts you know about any of this, I personally think boils down to this:
"The Classics line is dead", and "These Seekers are exclusive to this Botcon convention"...
Looking at the current situation, seems to me that Hasbro should've never made these statements.

1. I'm pretty sure the classics did die. A lot of classics had to be clearanced off and the interest was very slow building. It was the movie that gave these toys a new lease of life, and brought a lot of people back to the Transformers world.

2. The botcon 'Games of Deception' set wasn't really a classics release. It was a straight G1 version of the unreleased (classics) seekers using classics molds, with the exception of Thrust which had a different mold for the wings.

3. People who purchased 'GoD' should be happy that they have Thrust... still the best reason to purchase that set.

4. People who purchased 'GoD' should realise that while the Thundercracker in that set was acceptable, the Dirge was a lazy toy that took away most of the character of the original Dirge (in both toy and cartoon form) and the other two (Dreadwing and Goldbug) were pointless.

5. The Henkei release isn't 'classics' it is a G1 homage using 'classics' molds.

6. It would be a service to the entire fandom for Henkei to release a decent Dirge, with an acceptable wing mold.

7. With the release of Ramjet it is (in my opinion) obvious that Henkei are planning on releasing all 6 seekers. I will buy a Thrust and possibly a new Dirge to go with my homemade one.