The Energon Pub

Rated X wrote:This is the MP of all MP's.

Rated X wrote:But since TFC, Toyworld and MMC are all a bunch of copycats anyway...

Autobot Genocide wrote:Holy mother f***ing **** . i don't care what it costs .

QFT

I love that Brawl and Swindle...

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:This is the MP of all MP's.

Rated X wrote:But since TFC, Toyworld and MMC are all a bunch of copycats anyway...

It's MP scale to me. Plus I have a personal connection to the Combaticons since my childhood.

On the 3rd party companies, yeah I called them copycats. It seems that while theyre still putting out awesome stuff for the fans, theyre constant competing with each each other is annoying more fans than they think. Most of us collect for the characters, not the brand. Ive never heard someone say "Im a Fansproject guy, screw Toyworlld and MMC". It's not like saying "Im a Chevy guy, screw Ford".

I don't know why that guy keeps using MP's for scale comparison! If people think these guys are MP scale then MMC's Preds must be as well considering they'd be a little bigger. These guys are a little bigger than TFC's Aerial bots, so that would be the approximate scale of Bruticus.

megatronus wrote:Given the constant complaints about arm gaps in smaller figures like FP's Bruticus & Intimidator, I'm surprised a combiner of this size would suffer from this problem, and that it has not yet been engineered away.

Also, he's freaking massive!

I was looking at the first couple of images and thinking "WOW!!!", then I noticed the gestalt arms and couldn't believe someone could make such a big combiner and screw them up so badly

That's 10 year old engineering there for crying out loud!

Rated X wrote:While the almost MP scale dissappoints me, I buy anything Combaticons. I would buy an extra cofee table just for this guy. This is the MP of all MP's. But since TFC, Toyworld and MMC are all a bunch of copycats anyway, I would love to see some Bruticus's from them a bit smaller scale so I can choose one. And for the record this design blows FP Bruticus out the water and I have two of them.

These are not MP scale, the Autobot cars we always smaller than the average Decepticon, not the same size.

Rated X wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:This is the MP of all MP's.

Rated X wrote:But since TFC, Toyworld and MMC are all a bunch of copycats anyway...

It's MP scale to me. Plus I have a personal connection to the Combaticons since my childhood.

On the 3rd party companies, yeah I called them copycats. It seems that while theyre still putting out awesome stuff for the fans, theyre constant competing with each each other is annoying more fans than they think. Most of us collect for the characters, not the brand. Ive never heard someone say "Im a Fansproject guy" screw Toyworlld and MMC. It's not like saying "Im a Chevy guy, screw Ford".

No one's bashing the Combaticon collection. That's straight up impressive.

This thing just... isn't MP scale. MP Combaticons would be the same ~9-10" that Starscream, Soundwave, etc. are. These happen to be voyager-sized. Quake Wave, on the other hand, is properly sized to be MP scale.

The copycat thing is true insofar as all 3rd Party groups are technically infringing on HasTak IP. But you can't say that some 3rd Parties are copycats, and not others. Whoever is making this Bruticus logically must also be a copycat.

And for the record, after Hexatron, I would definitely say I'm an MMC guy. More so than any other 3rd Party. Like any allegiance, that might change, but MMC set a very high bar. Not that I would collect everything they put out (I have no interest in their Hearts of Steel figures, for example), but I have a great deal of respect for them right now, and eagerly await Feral Rex.

maybe i'm not looking properly, but which third party is this?

From NECIO

daimchoc wrote:From NECIO

If his scale is right then I'm definitely getting that Starscream

Warbotron's scale is looking good for Classics. JUST FIX THOSE DAMN ARMS!!!

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:This is the MP of all MP's.

Rated X wrote:But since TFC, Toyworld and MMC are all a bunch of copycats anyway...

It's MP scale to me. Plus I have a personal connection to the Combaticons since my childhood.

On the 3rd party companies, yeah I called them copycats. It seems that while theyre still putting out awesome stuff for the fans, theyre constant competing with each each other is annoying more fans than they think. Most of us collect for the characters, not the brand. Ive never heard someone say "Im a Fansproject guy" screw Toyworlld and MMC. It's not like saying "Im a Chevy guy, screw Ford".

No one's bashing the Combaticon collection. That's straight up impressive.

This thing just... isn't MP scale. MP Combaticons would be the same ~9-10" that Starscream, Soundwave, etc. are. These happen to be voyager-sized. Quake Wave, on the other hand, is properly sized to be MP scale.

The copycat thing is true insofar as all 3rd Party groups are technically infringing on HasTak IP. But you can't say that some 3rd Parties are copycats, and not others. Whoever is making this Bruticus logically must also be a copycat.

And for the record, after Hexatron, I would definitely say I'm an MMC guy. More so than any other 3rd Party. Like any allegiance, that might change, but MMC set a very high bar. Not that I would collect everything they put out (I have no interest in their Hearts of Steel figures, for example), but I have a great deal of respect for them right now, and eagerly await Feral Rex.

Im very impressed with my Hexatron as well. But I don't pledge allegiance to any one company to the point where I wont buy from the others. That's what I meant.

On MP Scale, it's getting harder and harder to define exactly MP scale really is. In a classic Rated X attitude, I would call it the Barbie doll scale. But in all seriousness, what are we really going by ? Hasbro MP figures keep getting smaller and smaller hence Rodimus vs. Sideswipe. So are we really going by scale of the alt modes in comparison to each other life if they were in real life ? But then there's cartoon accuracy, which the designs are actually trying to emulate. And in the cartoon, Prime isn't always towering over his troops by a mile. And the mini-bots aren't always so mini. But if Hasbro does a MP Bumblebee, it cant be as small in robot mode as some people would like because a VW Beetle isn't really that much smaller than a Countach in real life. A foot longer maybe ? And then theres the seekers. In the cartoon, the seekers aren't much taller than the autobot cars in hand to hand combat scenes. But if you go by jet mode, an F-15 would make any autobot car seem like a mini-bot. Back to these combaticons. They appear to be the same height as MP Sideswipe so why wouldn't they be considered MP Scale. You might say because Brawl is a tank and tanks should be bigger. But Brawl has to be in scale with Swindle who is a jeep. And a jeep is roughly the same size as a Countach. But if were going by real life alt modes, then Blast Off (or Astrotrain) would be the size of Titan Class Metroplex just to be in proper scale with MP Sideswipe. Even the Dinobots would be completely out of scale with each other if Hasbro ever made the other four and based there size on real dinosaur bones in comparison to the size of the MP Grimlock they made. You cant win with scale at the MP level. Now you know why I call them coffee table centerpieces. At least with classics, scale can be a little bit more flexible because nobody is really shooting for real life alt mode accuracy in terms of scale.

Rated X -

I understand your point, BUT, Masterpiece TFs have been a compromise from the very beginning. When talking Optimus vs. the smaller cars, like Sideswipe & Prowl, they've struck a great middle ground. The cartoon robot modes are maybe half an inch off, but the vehicle modes are perfectly in sync. MPs like Starcream are the opposite: the vehicle modes are somewhat off, but the robot scale is quite accurate.

With this incarnation of Bruticus, it's neither. That's where the problem crops up, especially when the team's robot modes aren't in scale with one another. It's probably an engineering necessity, but effectively prevents it from being "MP Scale" because of that.

I also get what you're saying with 3rd Parties - I would never *just* buy MMC to the exclusion of all other figures. They just happen to be commanding my attention for the moment. Is what it is.

Checking the cartoon and stuff, these would all need to be about an inch or so taller to be MP scale.

Wow, that is impressive. Fair play to whichever company this may be by releasing a proto shot without a silhouette teaser first. Sign me up.

Pre-order coming up in November... Stay tuned.

The Masterpiece discussion is one that baffles me. We have guys on both sides of the argument each with valid points but to me it boils down to this: The Masterpiece Line is completely out of scale with itself. IMO. We started with Prime and Megatron towering over the Seekers, alt mode scale be damned. Then we got the Absurdly disappointing Grimlock that scaled well with nothing. MP got revamped and to be fair, I have only been able to pick up Soundwave thus far(Don't even try to tell me about his scale issues in alt mode lol) But as of right now and again, this is without handling any of the new stuff, they seem to be all over the place.

While I understand there was a mission statement with the MP line to make the most accurate representation of the character for the collector, I feel that the figure in hand is completely upto the owner of that figure to decide where that toy fits in their collection.Hell I know a few people who had MP Grimlock in their classics display for a while. Looking at the mock-up shot with Uranos and Hercules I feel like the individual bots line up pretty well with the MPs shown as well as Hegemon and that starscream from igear which is lookking better everytime i see it for some reason.

Personally, I'm still on the fence with this set. If i get it, it will probably replace FP Bruticus on my classics shelf.

One more thing regarding the MP scale discussion, I think a big part of it is subjective. It is entirely up to the collector how they choose to use the figures to represent the characters. Is your display Comic scale? Cartoon Scale? G1 toy scale? Real life alt mode and proportionate bot mode scale @_@ ?It's very possible that we each have our own scale system and ideal height for each character.

Not sure how to wrap up my thoughts here or if I am even conveying them how i mean to :/
I'll just stop here.
the time is 3:46.
too tired to sleep.
my god..
baysplosion.

Well the discussion started due to how huge these are, and that we got comparison pictures with MP Sideswipe. At first glance they seemed to fit into the concept of the MP line, which is now since the reboot cartoon scaled bot-modes.
As in the robot modes are made to scale according to the official cartoon scaling (which to be fair was often ignored or f**ked up by the cartoon).

The MP line now scales pretty well with each other (bot-mode) since MP 10, but for that you have to ignore all previous toys. But form MP 10 onward they fit nicely together. Alt-modes don't count, since that would be pretty stupid and impossible.


What's kinda annoying is, that this almost fits into the MP line, almost. The bots would all need to be about an inch and a half taller and it would fit.

Dead Metal wrote:What's kinda annoying is, that this almost fits into the MP line, almost. The bots would all need to be about an inch and a half taller and it would fit.

Nope, they would need show accurate alt modes as well. That alone guarantees that these couldn't fit with the MP figures

Been on the tfw2005 thread for this (which I never normally do because there are waaay to many people posting on that site) and there are quite a few mentioning the crappy gestalt arms and to low chest plate. A few have mentioned the head and back cannons as well. Hopefully whoever is behind this is listening and will be making a few improvements. My biggest fear is that they have followed Impossible Toys idiot design process and gotten these close to production and won't be listening to the feedback and changing things.

wilcosu35 wrote:maybe i'm not looking properly, but which third party is this?

It has not been stated so far, but the overall size and design look like TFC to me.

But that is just a guess on my part.

Wonder why people here aren't complaining about the elbows as much. They're of the same design as the FP Menasor and the FP Bruticus upgrade set (Which people thought was amazing and really cool at the time the Bruticus set was out). I personally have no problems with those elbow design on the FP figures. but on this.... it looks a little weird mainly because of how big it is.

rpetras wrote:

wilcosu35 wrote:maybe i'm not looking properly, but which third party is this?

It has not been stated so far, but the overall size and design look like TFC to me.

But that is just a guess on my part.

It's not TFC, that's what people have been guessing. I think this is a brand new group with designers from a better known third party?

Digibashed....

mooncake623 wrote:Wonder why people here aren't complaining about the elbows as much. They're of the same design as the FP Menasor and the FP Bruticus upgrade set (Which people thought was amazing and really cool at the time the Bruticus set was out). I personally have no problems with those elbow design on the FP figures. but on this.... it looks a little weird mainly because of how big it is.

I've been wondering the same thing.

I'm one of those that thinks it looks like hell on FP Menasor, but for some reason it doesn't bug me here as badly.

Could be the way they have the arm-bot's arms positioned to mask the gap a bit, or the overall chunkiness of the rest of the figures that hides it, I'm not sure.

JRFitzpatrick7 wrote:The Masterpiece Line is completely out of scale with itself. IMO. We started with Prime and Megatron towering over the Seekers, alt mode scale be damned. Then we got the Absurdly disappointing Grimlock that scaled well with nothing. MP got revamped and to be fair, I have only been able to pick up Soundwave thus far(Don't even try to tell me about his scale issues in alt mode lol) But as of right now and again, this is without handling any of the new stuff, they seem to be all over the place.

People like to bring up MP-01 Optimus & MP-05 Megatron as if the "reset" with MP-10 never happened.

To your credit, you acknowledge it, but it's hard to make you understand the momentousness of the change if you don't have any of the smaller Autobot cars in hand. It makes a big difference. The reset even serves to save a few older MPs - the Seekers, Grimlock, and Rodimus have more of a home on an MP shelf.

JRFitzpatrick7 wrote:While I understand there was a mission statement with the MP line to make the most accurate representation of the character for the collector, I feel that the figure in hand is completely upto the owner of that figure to decide where that toy fits in their collection.Hell I know a few people who had MP Grimlock in their classics display for a while. Looking at the mock-up shot with Uranos and Hercules I feel like the individual bots line up pretty well with the MPs shown as well as Hegemon and that starscream from igear which is lookking better everytime i see it for some reason.

JRFitzpatrick7 wrote:One more thing regarding the MP scale discussion, I think a big part of it is subjective. It is entirely up to the collector how they choose to use the figures to represent the characters. Is your display Comic scale? Cartoon Scale? G1 toy scale? Real life alt mode and proportionate bot mode scale @_@ ?It's very possible that we each have our own scale system and ideal height for each character.

Of course, how you display the figure is up to you; whether you display MP Grimlock as a Classics figure or something else is an individual choice, one that should be made based on what will make you happiest.

But, scale is more of an objective thing than you might think, and I hold it is something more or less set by HasTak. Especially with the reset, and especially because the main questions are "Are they the same height? Is cartoon accuracy maintained?"

That's why Quake Wave is a great example - he's roughly the same height as Masterpiece Starscream & Soundwave. You wouldn't think him out of place. These Combaticons are significantly shorter, and are thus out of place.

I know I'm stricter than most, but I think the distinction is an important one as we move forward with the MP line, and as the '84 lineup becomes more robust.

In conclusion, for posterity:

I think "significantly shorter" is subject to opinion too. The truth is that those who want to view these as MP scale have points in their favor for doing so. Those who want to view them as Classics voyager, there are very valid points there as well. I'm not sure there's much use arguing about scale (and yet we continually do, eh? )

The whole reason I brought it up in the first place, and to echo Dead Metal's post, is that these guys are friggin' HUGE! Not my cup of tea (unless they are like $30 a piece) but I will love to see this project come to completion.

Peaugh mentioned WB01 being just the start of a lineup of fully realized combiners from this new 3P company.

found this somewhere.

wow! This makes me not want to preorder anything Until I see everything. All these combiners will now be wait and see. No longer jumping in like I did with the FP Menasor.

Arctorro wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:What's kinda annoying is, that this almost fits into the MP line, almost. The bots would all need to be about an inch and a half taller and it would fit.

Nope, they would need show accurate alt modes as well. That alone guarantees that these couldn't fit with the MP figures

They would, but I generally don't care about the alt-mode, as long as the robot-mode is awesome and accurate. Which is another thing against these, since well, only two of them are show accurate bots.


The crotch elbows are kinda annoying though, amongst a few other things, maybe if they designed the hips to be similar in design to G1 and MP Grimlock they could avoid that look.