The Energon Pub

Dagon wrote:Hey Burn, did you do something to upset the other mods, and so got relegated to the Movie forum as punishment? You're the only mod I ever see posting here and you sure get the brunt of it all, with people arguing over this pos movie still and this guy and his double talking rants.

You know, we used to have the Philosopher's forum and that got shut down for people arguing more important topics in (most of the time, seemingly) more civilized ways. You people aren't even talking about a movie anymore. You're all just jumping on people for thinking differently. First you don't care about plot so long as there's action, then the plot was the best thing since Anna Karenina, then Bay is your hero, then Bay shouldn't have to answer to anyone but himself, and see, look, even critics like it, and then who cares what the critics say, they're just old and stupid, then you want violence against someone who didn't like the movie but glower at people who said Bay should have been deported for making these films. Seriously, you guys are like a psyche ward spun completely out of control with this bs.

We get it, you know? You like the movie, other people don't, and you still can't handle that somehow. There is a new one coming out soon, you guys do know that, right? How will you react to that? If it's better than ROTF will you all turn into haters of DOTM or will you take your own advice and allow others to like DOTM more than they like ROTF?

Seriously. Just because it's "for kids" doesn't mean you have to be babies all the time. I can't wait for these movies to be over so maybe we can be sane again around here.

So...is this aimed at people who liked the films, people who hated them, or the whole Live Action Film forum?

Capt.Failure wrote:

Dagon wrote:Hey Burn, did you do something to upset the other mods, and so got relegated to the Movie forum as punishment? You're the only mod I ever see posting here and you sure get the brunt of it all, with people arguing over this pos movie still and this guy and his double talking rants.

You know, we used to have the Philosopher's forum and that got shut down for people arguing more important topics in (most of the time, seemingly) more civilized ways. You people aren't even talking about a movie anymore. You're all just jumping on people for thinking differently. First you don't care about plot so long as there's action, then the plot was the best thing since Anna Karenina, then Bay is your hero, then Bay shouldn't have to answer to anyone but himself, and see, look, even critics like it, and then who cares what the critics say, they're just old and stupid, then you want violence against someone who didn't like the movie but glower at people who said Bay should have been deported for making these films. Seriously, you guys are like a psyche ward spun completely out of control with this bs.

We get it, you know? You like the movie, other people don't, and you still can't handle that somehow. There is a new one coming out soon, you guys do know that, right? How will you react to that? If it's better than ROTF will you all turn into haters of DOTM or will you take your own advice and allow others to like DOTM more than they like ROTF?

Seriously. Just because it's "for kids" doesn't mean you have to be babies all the time. I can't wait for these movies to be over so maybe we can be sane again around here.

So...is this aimed at people who liked the films, people who hated them, or the whole Live Action Film forum?

Does it even matter anymore at this point? Probably the whole forum. Every thread is about "here's some new reason why the movie sucked/ruled," and they aren't even new points. It's not even a discussion any longer. My comment about the Philosopher's Forum was to say that there was less caustic banter in there, and there were some serious topics in there, and that was closed down for being too incendiary. But in this forum, everyone is 'stupid' for this reason or that, and everyone takes it personally and gets defensive, and I guess it just isnt' as funny to me as it used to be. Because, boy, it used to be funny. Threads and threads of people whining and crying over everyone not sharing their opinions and being butthurt over it. But that was in '07, and I figured by now we'd be passed that. But obviously I misjudged.
Not like I'm the one who needs to have it proven to. I was told I had a persecution complex and myriad other mental difficulties because I DIDN'T like the movie and dared to say that in pretty non-confrontational verbiage, nothing nearly as elegant as the comments about violence towards people who didn't love ROTF.
Do you like it Capt. Failure? Yes? No? Good, I'm glad you have whatever opinion you have and I respect it. You can take my posts to be directed at whoever you feel like they're directed towards.

I've stated before it all boils down to the nature of the Transformers fanbase. I've described it before as conservative, self hating, and spiteful and I meant every word of that. The Transformers films brought on a major change to the franchise on several levels (new designs, new setting, and made it mainstream). This combined with the series being evicerated by critics but loved by the average moviegoer just leads to an endless cycle of pointless, borderline hateful argueing within the fanbase on the subject rather than intelligent discussion.

And that's why this board is the way it is.

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Stop acting like you're the victim. I've seen you dispense plenty of insults to those that didn't like the movie.

And i'm tired of it. Both sides are as bad as the other, this is what I meant when people need to get over it and learn to respect the differing opinions of others.

You know, I thought when Capt. Failure posted those facts up here, I thought: "One side disproved one more to go."
Then this happened:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Dagon wrote:We get it, you know? You like the movie, other people don't, and you still can't handle that somehow. There is a new one coming out soon, you guys do know that, right? How will you react to that? If it's better than ROTF will you all turn into haters of DOTM or will you take your own advice and allow others to like DOTM more than they like ROTF?

Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Uggh! Why did I even dare come to this thread! I leave it in peace for ONE day, only to come back to more war.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down. ROTF already premiered and got released on DVD. There's a new movie to speculate upon. Let's move on for Primus' sake. If I can, so can the rest of the fan dumb.
Sly, seriously, I like that you love Transformers and the Bayverse and stuff but you really need to think about what you say. You need to remember that BOTH SIDES, yes BOTH sides are equally at fault for the rifts in the fandom...er...fan dumb since 2007. You aren't some innocent victim here. I've seen you say things I could hold against you before...heck, even I've said a crapload of things I blame myself for all the time.
I'm not being "sacrilegious to the Bayverse" here or whatever, I'm just being honest. And by the way, it's still an opinion whether you think DOTM will be the best movie ever. As well as ROTF. You really need to respect others' opinions. (Seriously, if anyone wants to see me go insane right in front of you, just state your opinions as facts and watch me go berserk.) But you're fifteen as I recall, correct? I'm a year older than you, and even I have enough brains to state my opinions correctly and respect others' opinions. Yeah, I threw a ton of crap out there when I first joined, but I've learned from that and moved on.
So can you.
Maybe actually take into consideration what Burn and Dagon say. I've truly learned a lot from them.
Listen, I admit I said a lot of stupid stuff before, but I'm tired of this now. It's all so silly. They're just movies and opinions...nothing to cry Armageddon over.

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Stop acting like you're the victim. I've seen you dispense plenty of insults to those that didn't like the movie.

And i'm tired of it. Both sides are as bad as the other, this is what I meant when people need to get over it and learn to respect the differing opinions of others.

I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

Oh, for spark sake.

This thread

SlyTF1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Stop acting like you're the victim. I've seen you dispense plenty of insults to those that didn't like the movie.

And i'm tired of it. Both sides are as bad as the other, this is what I meant when people need to get over it and learn to respect the differing opinions of others.

I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Stop acting like you're the victim. I've seen you dispense plenty of insults to those that didn't like the movie.

And i'm tired of it. Both sides are as bad as the other, this is what I meant when people need to get over it and learn to respect the differing opinions of others.

I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

Do I honestly have to spell everything out? All of my posts are in my opinion.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

Stop acting like you're the victim. I've seen you dispense plenty of insults to those that didn't like the movie.

And i'm tired of it. Both sides are as bad as the other, this is what I meant when people need to get over it and learn to respect the differing opinions of others.

I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

This.

Sly, your way to on edge on everything. When someone says they don't like the movie, you act like they've taken your girlfrined in the back room for a reach around.
The problem is people would take your coments alot more seriously if you had more to say than "ROTF is the best thing since slice bread!!! Ever!!!". Give a little more substance to the conversation.

Something occured to me this morning. I found it bizarre that one of my first thoughts this morning, had whilst in the bathroom, centered on Transformers and this movie. Maybe it's a sign.....I'm kidding about the sign part, ok? Errone calm down.

Anyway, Bay said the movie wasn't that great, Shia said the movie wasn't that great, Megan Fox (admittedly after being ejected from the third one) disparraged the movie. What about they who are less than famous? Like, has Josh Duhmel slagged the movie, or Tyrese, or any of them? I just thought it kind of strange that people who are mainly famous because of these films talk smack, but the people in them who are relative nobodies seem to keep their mouths shut. I'm just curious. IF Bay/LeBouf/etc, were complaining about ROTF because "everyone's doing it" and "the critics" and other crybabying, why aren't the less famous people doing the same?
Serious, just asking, maybe in hopes of getting a discussion to continue....

Dagon wrote:Something occured to me this morning. I found it bizarre that one of my first thoughts this morning, had whilst in the bathroom, centered on Transformers and this movie. Maybe it's a sign.....I'm kidding about the sign part, ok? Errone calm down.

Anyway, Bay said the movie wasn't that great, Shia said the movie wasn't that great, Megan Fox (admittedly after being ejected from the third one) disparraged the movie. What about they who are less than famous? Like, has Josh Duhmel slagged the movie, or Tyrese, or any of them? I just thought it kind of strange that people who are mainly famous because of these films talk smack, but the people in them who are relative nobodies seem to keep their mouths shut. I'm just curious. IF Bay/LeBouf/etc, were complaining about ROTF because "everyone's doing it" and "the critics" and other crybabying, why aren't the less famous people doing the same?
Serious, just asking, maybe in hopes of getting a discussion to continue....

Barring Megan Fox, I say the rest are in some sort of agreement.There was a meeting of some sort,a conclusion of some type was reached, and now everyone has a certain amount of element that they will discuss, to appear united in a preprescribed message that is being sent out to us.
Watch the commentary for the first movie.Wherever Bay has the opportunity he'll gloat about his hotline to the Pentagon and discuss what terrible things fans did to him.When he errs it's 'someone else'.Someone else decided to change the Devastator name back to Brawl.Someone else put the Volkswagen next to the Camaro.Someone else will be upset about that.
When Jazz dies,what is Bay talking about?
Bay will NOT apologise (because he is a Jerk).Fox named him a Hitler.Peter Cullen,more wiley,refers to him in his interview as 'Like a General".Bay hasn't changed since TF1.
So he isn't apologising.He's being pressured to do something in a way he doesn't want to show.
The admission that the movie was bad is a prescription and a smokescreen for a deeper,darker problem.I just don't know,or care about what that is.

On the surface it might a Hasbroian fit over the victory by the disaster (for them) that was Avatar.(Because they are stupid enough to treat this as a competition,they deserve it).

Underneath it all, Bay may have gotten buried by Hasbro behind closed doors for making Constructicons that don't sell.

For the record, yes, it's my opinion, tho worded as insistence.

(P.S: The ruling council of Ephesus (An Ancient Greek Kingdom now located inside the map of Turkey) used to sit in a circle of twelve toilets instead of seats (yes, REALLY) and they used to...uh...download...information. (They were Philosophical debaters, and approached the governing of the city that way:Philosophical rather than mental debate.Some say they believed that they couldn't think for themselves when carrying foreign life in their gut,others that they couldn't reach the higher realms of thought/Muse reception whilst 'burdened').

Mektek Smoketreader wrote:

Dagon wrote:Something occured to me this morning. I found it bizarre that one of my first thoughts this morning, had whilst in the bathroom, centered on Transformers and this movie. Maybe it's a sign.....I'm kidding about the sign part, ok? Errone calm down.

Anyway, Bay said the movie wasn't that great, Shia said the movie wasn't that great, Megan Fox (admittedly after being ejected from the third one) disparraged the movie. What about they who are less than famous? Like, has Josh Duhmel slagged the movie, or Tyrese, or any of them? I just thought it kind of strange that people who are mainly famous because of these films talk smack, but the people in them who are relative nobodies seem to keep their mouths shut. I'm just curious. IF Bay/LeBouf/etc, were complaining about ROTF because "everyone's doing it" and "the critics" and other crybabying, why aren't the less famous people doing the same?
Serious, just asking, maybe in hopes of getting a discussion to continue....

Barring Megan Fox, I say the rest are in some sort of agreement.There was a meeting of some sort,a conclusion of some type was reached, and now everyone has a certain amount of element that they will discuss, to appear united in a preprescribed message that is being sent out to us.
Watch the commentary for the first movie.Wherever Bay has the opportunity he'll gloat about his hotline to the Pentagon and discuss what terrible things fans did to him.When he errs it's 'someone else'.Someone else decided to change the Devastator name back to Brawl.Someone else put the Volkswagen next to the Camaro.Someone else will be upset about that.
When Jazz dies,what is Bay talking about?
Bay will NOT apologise (because he is a Jerk).Fox named him a Hitler.Peter Cullen,more wiley,refers to him in his interview as 'Like a General".Bay hasn't changed since TF1.
So he isn't apologising.He's being pressured to do something in a way he doesn't want to show.
The admission that the movie was bad is a prescription and a smokescreen for a deeper,darker problem.I just don't know,or care about what that is.

On the surface it might a Hasbroian fit over the victory by the disaster (for them) that was Avatar.(Because they are stupid enough to treat this as a competition,they deserve it).

Underneath it all, Bay may have gotten buried by Hasbro behind closed doors for making Constructicons that don't sell.

For the record, yes, it's my opinion, tho worded as insistence.

That's interesting, after reading your response I do seem to remember Bay taking credit and avoiding blame in the TF1 commentary, because I have watched it with the commentary on, as unenlightening and insubstantial as it is. It sorta stuck in my head because I don't think I've ever really heard a commentary track that was just a guy saying he did everything right and the pitfalls of the movie were not on him. While I know Bay/this movie isn't the only one to have taken that stance, it's one of the only ones that I've personally heard.
I don't think he should apologize, but maybe he shouldn't act so smug in interviews if he's going to backtrack later and point out shortcomings.....
My main question though was more rhetorical I think, in hind-sight. You know how everyone only bad mouths the live action movies because it's trendy or everyone else is doing it or some other lame reason? If that really is the case, then why are the minor players of 'stars' not joining in? Or even like Turturo? He's been in some real duds and winners in his time, so maybe he doesn't care as much, but I'd bet you a donut that that Josh Duhmel/Katherine Heigl vehicle didn't make as much dough as the TF films have, so if his career tanks will he finger point at ROTF/the others, or what? I guess I'm mainly curious why the entirety of the TF live action film group in not joining in.

(P.S: The ruling council of Ephesus (An Ancient Greek Kingdom now located inside the map of Turkey) used to sit in a circle of twelve toilets instead of seats (yes, REALLY) and they used to...uh...download...information. (They were Philosophical debaters, and approached the governing of the city that way:Philosophical rather than mental debate.Some say they believed that they couldn't think for themselves when carrying foreign life in their gut,others that they couldn't reach the higher realms of thought/Muse reception whilst 'burdened').

I actually knew that. I think that's funny.

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

Do I honestly have to spell everything out? All of my posts are in my opinion.

Of course they are always technically your opinions, but you shoving them in everyone's face as facts makes you come across as you're either oblivious to the fact that they are just opinions or that you genuinely believe them to be facts. It's like you're trying to make people believe that ROTF is in fact the best movie ever.
And that's not the main problem here. All you do is blow up on anyone that dares to defy your opinions. You are only concerned about anyone who doesn't like the movies, and it seems either you don't believe the movie fans cause problems or maybe you just don't want to admit that. Like I said, you react rather than respond. You automatically make an "How dare he! I'll show him that he's wrong!" type of response rather than reading carefully and thinking "Oh...that's just his opinion. Nothing to be worried about." Don't act like it's a threat whenever you don't completely agree with someone.
Which means, don't automatically think I'm your evil enemy now for disagreeing with you. If you want to know, I even added you to my friends list. I have seen you prove some good points before, and I can tell you really love TF and movies, so I respect that. At the same time, I'm not saying I hate you since I disagree with you, but I'm just adding my honest incite. But I think you will gain more enemies rather than friends if you continue saying the things you do.

I do think it's all pointing to some kind of smokescreen campaign as well. RotF sold like hotcakes, that's not up for discussion. But the powers that be still consider the negative critical buzz to be a potential threat to the third film (for frak's sake RotF wasn't even nominated for best visual effects due to the critics). To that end they'll have any of the big names of the series trash the film despite what they thought in order to make it look like they want to "redeem" themselves.

This is obvious due to one simple fact: Michael Bay "apoligized." The man apologizes for nothing. He didn't apologize for Pearl Harbor when it took a huge dump on American history (it's the one film of his I've seen that I hated), so why would he start now? Two words: Hasbro, Paramount.

He's sorry for nothing. He's just trying to secure his job and keep the executives at bay. Such is life in hollywood.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

Do I honestly have to spell everything out? All of my posts are in my opinion.

Of course they are always technically your opinions, but you shoving them in everyone's face as facts makes you come across as you're either oblivious to the fact that they are just opinions or that you genuinely believe them to be facts. It's like you're trying to make people believe that ROTF is in fact the best movie ever.
And that's not the main problem here. All you do is blow up on anyone that dares to defy your opinions. You are only concerned about anyone who doesn't like the movies, and it seems either you don't believe the movie fans cause problems or maybe you just don't want to admit that. Like I said, you react rather than respond. You automatically make an "How dare he! I'll show him that he's wrong!" type of response rather than reading carefully and thinking "Oh...that's just his opinion. Nothing to be worried about." Don't act like it's a threat whenever you don't completely agree with someone.
Which means, don't automatically think I'm your evil enemy now for disagreeing with you. If you want to know, I even added you to my friends list. I have seen you prove some good points before, and I can tell you really love TF and movies, so I respect that. At the same time, I'm not saying I hate you since I disagree with you, but I'm just adding my honest incite. But I think you will gain more enemies rather than friends if you continue saying the things you do.

i think he is jsut looking for reaction, which we give him by replying

as for the point about minor stars not bitching about the movie, perhaps they neither have the wealth or clout to bite the hand that feeds them, so are not looking to be labelled as trouble by studio execs.

Bay may or may not believe that rotf was poor, but i dont believe he is saying it is due to studio/ hasbro pressure. Bay is rich enough, and has been allowed to make movies after dross like the island and pearl harbour. Once he turns a profit he will be employable. and i dont think bay has such alove for transformers in general that he would be devestated if he didnt get the gig for dotm.

He was signed up for the third a long time ago, so making these comments with the movie practically in the can would indicate it is not because he is afraid of losing his job

Gonna have to disagree shamone. Hollywood has fired directors mid movie plenty of times in the past for whatever reason. Superman 2, which everyone regards as a good film, lost it's director halfway through production as did Highlander 2 (and look what happened when they fired him).

Ultimately I believe Bay is trying to keep his bosses happy.

For the record, only The Island bombed. Pearl Harbor was still a hit.

shamone wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

Do I honestly have to spell everything out? All of my posts are in my opinion.

Of course they are always technically your opinions, but you shoving them in everyone's face as facts makes you come across as you're either oblivious to the fact that they are just opinions or that you genuinely believe them to be facts. It's like you're trying to make people believe that ROTF is in fact the best movie ever.
And that's not the main problem here. All you do is blow up on anyone that dares to defy your opinions. You are only concerned about anyone who doesn't like the movies, and it seems either you don't believe the movie fans cause problems or maybe you just don't want to admit that. Like I said, you react rather than respond. You automatically make an "How dare he! I'll show him that he's wrong!" type of response rather than reading carefully and thinking "Oh...that's just his opinion. Nothing to be worried about." Don't act like it's a threat whenever you don't completely agree with someone.
Which means, don't automatically think I'm your evil enemy now for disagreeing with you. If you want to know, I even added you to my friends list. I have seen you prove some good points before, and I can tell you really love TF and movies, so I respect that. At the same time, I'm not saying I hate you since I disagree with you, but I'm just adding my honest incite. But I think you will gain more enemies rather than friends if you continue saying the things you do.

i think he is jsut looking for reaction, which we give him by replying

No, I'm not. This pisses me off more than anything. I sit pondering about it all day long and it just pisses me off more than anything else.

shamone wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not acting like I'm the victim. I'm just saying that for the time being; ROTF is the greatest movie ever and when DOTM comes out, that'll be the greatest movie ever. It's the law of...stuff.

You've got to be kidding me...
Sly, I think you react rather than respond.
1. ROTF is the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
2. DOTM will be the greatest movie IN YOUR OPINION.
I'm getting tired of this. I feel like I'm being more redundant than I need to be.

Do I honestly have to spell everything out? All of my posts are in my opinion.

Of course they are always technically your opinions, but you shoving them in everyone's face as facts makes you come across as you're either oblivious to the fact that they are just opinions or that you genuinely believe them to be facts. It's like you're trying to make people believe that ROTF is in fact the best movie ever.
And that's not the main problem here. All you do is blow up on anyone that dares to defy your opinions. You are only concerned about anyone who doesn't like the movies, and it seems either you don't believe the movie fans cause problems or maybe you just don't want to admit that. Like I said, you react rather than respond. You automatically make an "How dare he! I'll show him that he's wrong!" type of response rather than reading carefully and thinking "Oh...that's just his opinion. Nothing to be worried about." Don't act like it's a threat whenever you don't completely agree with someone.
Which means, don't automatically think I'm your evil enemy now for disagreeing with you. If you want to know, I even added you to my friends list. I have seen you prove some good points before, and I can tell you really love TF and movies, so I respect that. At the same time, I'm not saying I hate you since I disagree with you, but I'm just adding my honest incite. But I think you will gain more enemies rather than friends if you continue saying the things you do.

i think he is jsut looking for reaction, which we give him by replying

as for the point about minor stars not bitching about the movie, perhaps they neither have the wealth or clout to bite the hand that feeds them, so are not looking to be labelled as trouble by studio execs.

Bay may or may not believe that rotf was poor, but i dont believe he is saying it is due to studio/ hasbro pressure. Bay is rich enough, and has been allowed to make movies after dross like the island and pearl harbour. Once he turns a profit he will be employable. and i dont think bay has such alove for transformers in general that he would be devestated if he didnt get the gig for dotm.

He was signed up for the third a long time ago, so making these comments with the movie practically in the can would indicate it is not because he is afraid of losing his job

In all fairness, Sly did start a thread that was an objective invitation to all of us to change his mind ("After seeing rotf again...").

Regarding the "Silence of the Duhamels et al", the Bold is an astute observation.

I just want to put it on record that the pressure being from Hasbro is a top of my head generalization (since I mentioned it).
Generically,I will personally anticipate Bay to convert any event into his own reality (eg:Armageddon), including the exact situation that has caused him to come out and bag rotf.I would be completely unsurprised, however nasty this sounds,if he has recreated the event so much that he doesn't actually remember the original anymore.(Which doesn't mean I insist that he did, just that I wouldn't be surprised).But that is expressly just me.I don't like incompetent bigshot types so consider me blindly biased on the above matter.

ALTERNATIVE THEORY (for use in chronological conjunction with all other theories):
(Note I treat Bay like an isolated Human here, not the above 'Bigshot' label).
I agree that he doesn't have such a love for existing TF mythologies, but I do think he loves the characters he co-redesigned (with coolness in mind,i.e: not the twins),and I suspect he did so via hybridization with toys he considered cool when compared his view of TFs(eg: Rollerskate Sideswipe,propably something in Dreadbox).

Having said the above:
I strongly suspect that killing off the Arcees is something he wouldn't have done unless something crushing happened to him, not that I reckon the Arcees,in particular, were his final vision of particular product but an attempted message which he somehow couldn't get out all the way.(He effectively says this,stating he wanted them to combine).
If this next is accurate,it's nasty enough to be cruel conduct on my part, but:
The RCs were directly linked to Megan Fox.He discussed,nay,expressed his desire to give her a bigger role in rotf,and talked about the 'dynamic' in her on set in a way that I, personally, apply connotations to (differences make good connecting sparks).
Now,remembering that he has her dressed up like a bride in rotf(but lets ignore Wheelie humping her & say it was a purely writer dept. addition),then:
Color me stupid,but,even if he saw her like a daughter or a kindred spirit,he was seeing her in a way that would have eventually led to a need for him to tell her what he saw in her,no?.
(Theory flaw: who is to say he didn't tell her anyway?)
(Theory flaw flaw: Who is to say his telling her repeatedly didn't push her away?)
During the argument,tho,(between Bay & Fox) she publically refers to him being a social...well,retard,basically...outside of directing.
So he has to totally 'mindwipe' the Megan fox experience,going so far as to get rid of Arcee in the process.He loses someone he was connecting to/felt some version of a dynamic connection with,and also the 'seed' from his unfinished vision (the seed being the salvaged RC unit ready for rehashing with the other two considered Killed in Action from our viewpoints.
She hit him directly in the two unfinished messages with a public insult regarding his inability to communicate.Do you see it? It can be a totally harrowing blow if dealt to the right person.

Superficial translation: If Michael Bay says the Mystical factor was crap, he's not talking about the mystical factor being crap.It's a diversion.

SlyTF1 wrote:No, I'm not. This pisses me off more than anything. I sit pondering about it all day long and it just pisses me off more than anything else.

Then you seriously need to take a step back and analyse your life if you're allowing people's negatives opinion of a movie dominate your life so much.

I'm not joking. I'm tired of your angry outbursts.

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:No, I'm not. This pisses me off more than anything. I sit pondering about it all day long and it just pisses me off more than anything else.

Then you seriously need to take a step back and analyse your life if you're allowing people's negatives opinion of a movie dominate your life so much.

I'm not joking. I'm tired of your angry outbursts.

I'm sorry, but it makes me feel stupid. You have this thing that everyone hates, but I still think it's the best thing ever. I feel like I'm the stupid abnormal person.

Really? You're basing the value of life around a movie other people hate?

Have you looked at the world lately? Cyclones, Hurricanes, Floods, Earthquakes, thousands of people are dieing, as many are left homeless. Then there are all those who live their lives on the streets, or are lucky to get a meal once a week.

AND YOU'RE UPSET OVER SOMEONE NOT LIKING A BLOODY MOVIE?????

Grow up and take a look at the bigger world. The fact that you have a house to live in, internet access to cry on, and can actually go to the movies is a hell of a lot more than what other people have.

Burn wrote:Really? You're basing the value of life around a movie other people hate?

Have you looked at the world lately? Cyclones, Hurricanes, Floods, Earthquakes, thousands of people are dieing, as many are left homeless. Then there are all those who live their lives on the streets, or are lucky to get a meal once a week.

AND YOU'RE UPSET OVER SOMEONE NOT LIKING A BLOODY MOVIE?????

Grow up and take a look at the bigger world. The fact that you have a house to live in, internet access to cry on, and can actually go to the movies is a hell of a lot more than what other people have.

Yeah, I know that; and I think about that all the time. But it still doesn't have anything to do with me feeling stupid.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:No, I'm not. This pisses me off more than anything. I sit pondering about it all day long and it just pisses me off more than anything else.

Then you seriously need to take a step back and analyse your life if you're allowing people's negatives opinion of a movie dominate your life so much.

I'm not joking. I'm tired of your angry outbursts.

I'm sorry, but it makes me feel stupid. You have this thing that everyone hates, but I still think it's the best thing ever. I feel like I'm the stupid abnormal person.

Yay! You think it's the best thing ever for once.
HOWEVER, I do think you need to let go of the fact that people don't like a some movie. Burn said it best: IT'S A BLOODY MOVIE! Yes, I love the movie to death, but I don't sit around concerned about why other people don't like it. It's a waste of time to worry about it every second of the day. There are better things to worry about in life than an action flick.
The main reason I get on here almost every day is to see if there's anything new going on with the near future of Transformers, not to argue over something that came out two years ago.
But you're not stupid, or abnormal. If anyone in my age group is abnormal, I am. Trust me, I listen to Aerosmith and watch NASCAR instead of Jay-Z (or whoever the hell you "normal" teens out there like) and the NBA. And I know that you aren't stupid. You just need to think a little more about what you say.