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ZeroWolf wrote:I would of actually liked a wolf (one day I'll get around to doing that wolf pack combiner fan art), I know we got one in silverbolt but I would still have liked one before then.

Ugh, Silverbolt..

Anyway I had K9 and Wolfang, back in the day where I was working my way through collecting the entire BW line (I didn't)and I liked the design.


Especially as they came with the same Riot Shield that Primal did. I also liked the original Cybershark toy too, although I did appreciate (prior to Season 3) that Fish based bots were too limited for the show. Clearly someone else in Hasbro liked Cybershark too, hence the TM2 upgrade.



I mention Polar Claw too of course, as he was given emphasis in the First Wave mini comic. Even so far as to be sold in a twin pack with Scorponok. Almost evoking a Fort Max/Scorponok kind of vibe. Ironic given the size of Scorponok on the show, facing off against a polar bear would have been a ridiculous mismatch.

I liked the k9 mold, he pulled off a perfect loyal soldier vibe, especially when I viewed the mutant mask as a helm of sorts. It's one that I would consider troop building and in the fanfic I intend to write one day he'll be used as a template for others.

I like cybershark as well, he's a fun toy but I prefer the character that arose from the transmetals 2 toy, skye byte best use of an older mold...especially since car robots only had one unique deception/predacon mold

Gigatron is still one of my favourite Transformers. How to be a Ten Former and Not a brick.

I loathe comic relief, so I wasn't too keen on Sky Byte. Not how I envisioned a Predacon with a Great White Shark Beast Mode to act or behave. I saw both versions of Cybershark as pro-active aggressors.. The Maximal ranks could have done with some of that in BW. Depthcharge was needed far earlier than he appeared.

To be fair car robots was a kids anime so that's why the only threatening predacon was gigatron, the rest were all comic relief and why bigger threats in the shape of the destron mercenaries came on the picture.

Skye byte left his mark hence why he was one of the ones chosen to get an update in the thrilling 30 generations line.

You know who I would of loved to have made an appearance? Magnaboss (and his predacon counterpart)

ZeroWolf wrote:You know who I would of loved to have made an appearance? Magnaboss (and his predacon counterpart)

With the introduction of the Tripredacus council in The Agenda, I thought these Gestalts were all but confirmed for Season 3... Alas it was not to be. The scope of BW would have expanded dramatically with Gestalts, although these were probably unfeasible due to budget (again). One thing I did take note of was the large number of unused Insecticons (aside from the namesake) in the show. Should Tripredacus have come to Earth in person, these characters could have easily filled out a new faction.

As I said, I gave a lot of thought to an Alternate Reality Season 3 and the toy designs that could have been used.

I'll just have to settle for the fact that they appeared in the Japan only beast wars 2 series. Now there's an idea for a story, primal, lio & big convoy in a team up story, we've had the first two team up but as far as I'm aware, not all three...you know what let's throw convoybat in there as well

ZeroWolf wrote:I'll just have to settle for the fact that they appeared in the Japan only beast wars 2 series. Now there's an idea for a story, primal, lio & big convoy in a team up story, we've had the first two team up but as far as I'm aware, not all three...you know what let's throw convoybat in there as well

The closest to that would have been The Gathering/Ascension (wasn't a fan of that either)

Convoy Bat brings up an interesting part of BW lore: the mini comic, and how different that initial series pitch was.

I still wonder how things would have progressed if machine wars hadn't failed as spectacularly as it did, would it have turned into a proper prequel to beast wars, offering proper Cybertronian modes for the characters? Or would it have collided, giving us beasts vs machines (like beast machines and beast wars 2)

Yes the mini comic would have led to an interesting series as well but I think we did get the better one (and hey, prime and megs did appear in beast wars still )

ZeroWolf wrote:Yes the mini comic would have led to an interesting series as well but I think we did get the better one (and hey, prime and megs did appear in beast wars still )

Indeed
I like to think that ultimately was the intent behind the Transmetal designs, how the cast would have looked as Traditional Transformers, with inorganic altmodes. It's sad we'll never get to know how they all would have looked as Transmetals, since I doubt the concept art for Dinobot and Scorponok reflected the final designs.

Some of them I always thought could easily have been repurposed as other characters however. Swap out the Shiny Blue for Purple and TM Primal becomes BW Apeface. Tweak the beak and TM Terrorsaur (or Airazor, for that matter) could be Laserbeak etc

As I mentioned it briefly earlier, having recently rediscovered and re-read my copies, let's talk about The Gathering and The Ascension.

When we mention Beast Wars and it's missed opportunities, this sticks out as a huge glaring example. What did I envision for a Beast Wars mini series?
A prequel or side story connected to the show cast? Perhaps.

A world builder type story utilizing more of the Beast Wars designs that only existed as toys? A strong possibility.

The Long Shot: An alternate tale, expanding on the universe of the original mini comic? That would have been very interesting.

What did we get? Two books focused on the generic cast of BW 2 & Neo and some dodgy repaints and remolds shoehorned into being the antagonists. Even worse, squandering scores of previous toy-only characters as one-dimensional fodder

I find it very damning of a book the only parts you enjoy are the brief cameos made by characters you actually care about.

This is up there as one of the worst books I've ever read and I felt nothing but cheated by it, as a fan of Beast Wars. The proper one.

I'll say this of the gathering and it's sequel, it was nice to see them acknowledge bw 2 and neo, and that end shot of megs is awesome. It was also good to see the blendtrons in action again, even if the name is very strange...

ZeroWolf wrote:I'll say this of the gathering and it's sequel, it was nice to see them acknowledge bw 2 and neo, and that end shot of megs is awesome. It was also good to see the blendtrons in action again, even if the name is very strange...

I've given this some thought, upon viewing a similar comment in another thread regarding the Takara series.

Why does it matter to acknowledge the Japanese only series?

The comment I refer to, in one of the List threads, a comment was made that the Takara series don't count as G1. Several people staunchly disagreed. Yet from a certain point of view, the original comment is correct.

Transformers has a global fanbase. If 90% of that fanbase were shown 'The Rebirth' and told that was the end of G1, then it is so. The fact is many outside of Japan were completely unaware of the Takara series for decades, only serves to increase the disassociation.
Likewise with BW2 & Neo. If Hasbro or whoever decide not to make something available to their larger fanbase, then it based on the individual to take or leave its authenticity as canon.

I'd argue that is purely subjective as the g1 toy line in Europe continued past where the American one ended, with us getting overlord and other bits and pieces and toys that would later be repackaged as g2. Also if you insist on the Japanese g1 then that apparently never ended as takara found a way to put everything in g1 (and I mean everything)

So long story short there is no right or wrong answer as it's just subjective opinion. Unless you paraphrase your opinion like "American toyline g1 ended 89" for example (though I'm sure I got that date wrong)

Subjective indeed. As I said, ultimately it comes down to individual, what is and isn't canon. Not every fan continued to follow G1 Transformers through the Toyline after the cartoon and comics ended. Not every fan even acknowledged G2.

Ultimately the decision to limit the audience of the Takara Series to Japan-only, brought this unnecessary point of contention into existence in the first place.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I'll say this of the gathering and it's sequel, it was nice to see them acknowledge bw 2 and neo, and that end shot of megs is awesome. It was also good to see the blendtrons in action again, even if the name is very strange...

I've given this some thought, upon viewing a similar comment in another thread regarding the Takara series.

Why does it matter to acknowledge the Japanese only series?

The comment I refer to, in one of the List threads, a comment was made that the Takara series don't count as G1. Several people staunchly disagreed. Yet from a certain point of view, the original comment is correct.

The real problem here is that from every point of view, The original comoment and you are incorrect.

Its s true that transformers has a global Fanbase, what is also true is that from it’s very inception G one wasn’t trying to tell a solitary story within only one continuity. They will the comics that came first story books other comics the cartoon the list goes on.

And for the record the cartoon wasn’t the first iteration of transformers fiction, the fact that it may of had a greater fanbase doesn’t disqualify the other forms of transformer fiction from being able to be called “true “ G1.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while the shows are called Japanese exclusive shows the bottom line is that they were shown in the United Kingdom ,Malaysia ,Australia .....I have even seen some people claim they saw it air in the states, but personally I think those people are just extremely miss remembering things , Either way the shows had markets outside of Japan

As to what can be called Canon, That’s never up to the individual, Canon is anything and everything that is officially released, That’s just how it is individuals don’t have a right or a steak inwhat can be called canon. But while there may be a conflict with in the story that comes down to continuity not cannon.

It’s kind a like how the comics from marvel and the cartoon had two different stories both for canon because both are official but they’re not in the same continuity so what you have down or is a Japanese G1 continuity and The hasbro G1 continuity, And likewise goals for the Japanese beast wars shows

And the only thing that brought this point of contention into existence, forgive me for saying, is the ignorance of some of the Fanbase and those that missed understand certain terms

Certainly a lot of ignorance being batted around. For one thing, The Takara Series was never shown in the UK around the time of Sunbow. I live here, I know it first hand. We had Sunbow then that "G2" repeat of Sunbow and then nothing until Beast Wars in 1996. Coupled that with the fact that when The Takara Series was released on DVD in 2005, it came with a little text description on the case that said "never before seen in the UK". So there's that too.

I'm sure the point of that little rant wasn't supposed to be as condescending as it came out, I'll ignore the majority I deemed too patronising to invite discussion just the same.


Canon does come down to the individual also. Your presumption is quite wrong there. Take two fans. One only watched the cartoons and only collected the toys from the show, oblivious to anything outside that. The other watched the cartoons, read all the comics and collected all the toys. Both say their experience is 'G1'. Both are correct.

Also The Cartoons, Story Books, Comics etc were there solely to sell The Toys. THE END. All the ideas of multiple continuities etc were applied retroactively, not a planned design by any means. Just as the term itself "G1" was given after the fact, many years later. There was no Hasbro think-tank in 1984 devising what Generation Two and Three would look like or the origins of Primus

Too many people in this day and age base their knowledge on worthless wiki's and such. We may live in the 'information age' that doesn't mean said knowledge is always applicable. Knowledge is power and without first-hand experience, has no real power at all.

Anyway, that's an end to that. This is my Beast Wars thread, which is what it will return to now.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Certainly a lot of ignorance being batted around. For one thing, The Takara Series was never shown in the UK around the time of Sunbow. I live here, I know it first hand.

. Did you see anybody claimed it was around the same time at Sunbow?
I don’t believe I made that claim

We had Sunbow then that "G2" repeat of Sunbow and then nothing until Beast Wars in 1996. Coupled that with the fact that when The Takara Series was released on DVD in 2005, it came with a little text description on the case that said "never before seen in the UK". So there's that too.

Yeah I lunped the uk into the same sentence that I mention the other two markets where it aired that was my mistake

I'm sure the point of that little rant wasn't supposed to be as condescending as it came out, I'll ignore the majority I deemed too patronising to invite discussion just the same.

No not my intent at all I apologize if that’s how it came off

Canon does come down to the individual also.

No I’m sorry that’s just completely incorrect and completely flies in the face of the definition of the word
When wn individual is deciding canon then they are creating personal canon

The word canon was first applied to biblical scriptures and it’s original definition was
“an authoritative list of books recognized as Holy Scripture”
In the world of fiction “canon” is difinrd as “an authorized body of work”.

Hasbro/Takara and those the license to write a fiction are the only ones that can determine what is and is not canon so what is your presumption is quite wrong there.

Take two fans. One only watched the cartoons and only collected the toys from the show, oblivious to anything outside that. The other watched the cartoons, read all the comics and collected all the toys. Both say their experience is 'G1'. Both are correct.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make their

You seem to be viewing this like the hypothetical question “if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it doesn’t make a sound? “,…… while that’s an interesting way to look at it but It’s not really the right way to look at it, The best way to look at it would be if you are looking at the law

Lack of knowledge of the law is not a valid the fence when breaking the law, even the law you never knew about

Yes it’s all G1
Even if the fan only watch the cartoons and collected the toys And had no idea of the other iterations of G1, those other iterations of G1 still existed, They wer out there for him to find Or StumbleUpon, His lack of knowledge to its existence does not disqualify them from being G1 nor does it affect the ”canon-ness” of those other iterations

Also The Cartoons, Story Books, Comics etc were there solely to sell The Toys. THE END. All the ideas of multiple continuities etc were applied retroactively, not a planned design by any means.

Sorry but you’re wrong again

Granted they may not of discuss the word continuities in their planning meetings, but from the very get-go they were telling two very different stories With the comic on the cartoon,Different characters on earth ,different origins how certain characters were created ,different events taking place

The term different continuity might’ve been applied retroactively but from the get go that’s exactly what they gave us and there’s no other way to explain it

Too many people in this day and age base their knowledge on worthless wiki's and such.

I agree but I’m not sure why you brought that up

We may live in the 'information age' that doesn't mean said knowledge is always applicable. Knowledge is power and without first-hand experience, has no real power at all.

Well said

I'm actually a bit confused now as to what the original point was that you were trying to make by saying takara (headmasters/masterforce/victory) wasn't g1

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm actually a bit confused now as to what the original point was that you were trying to make by saying takara (headmasters/masterforce/victory) wasn't g1

I believe what he means, and he’s free to correct me if I’m wrong, is that he and others don’t feel that those shows qualify as G1 because they weren’t aware of the Existence of no-shows at the time that they were originally being shown in other parts of the world

And because of that they feel that it is up to them to consider whether the shows are Canon or not

There’s a segment of the Fanbase that feels the same way about the original Marvel comic because there were some parts of the world that never saw the comic book there’s even some parts of America but never really saw the comics and those fans have a tendency to say the same thing about the comic versus the cartoon

Not what is true is that a fan has a right to choose to except what they want To consider what is right or Canon for themselves, but that’s call your personal Canon or you can pick and choose what you choose to except from that and even create some of your own to add to it if you like

But true Canon can only be determined by the owners of the fictional world question, And to be clear even when the owners and the original creators differ from each other on what should be Canon.the Final authority and the rights to what can be called true canon fall to the owner and not the creator

Oh boy, a new Beast Wars cartoon topic. I wonder what's being discu--

*tries to read thread but gets lost instead*

Oy vey.

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm actually a bit confused now as to what the original point was that you were trying to make by saying takara (headmasters/masterforce/victory) wasn't g1

I'm actually confused as to what this thread is about anymore, heh.

I've found it happens a lot in most Transformers discussions whenever 'G1' is mentioned. It has become quite the conversation killer.

So let's get back on track. Seeing as this thread is all about missed opportunities within Beast Wars. I've already expressed that other than Depth Charge, most of Season 3 could be given that title. So let's talk about the Big One, shall we?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I've found it happens a lot in most Transformers discussions whenever 'G1' is mentioned. It has become quite the conversation killer.

So let's get back on track. Seeing as this thread is all about missed opportunities within Beast Wars. I've already expressed that other than Depth Charge, most of Season 3 could be given that title. So let's talk about the Big One, shall we?

Well my first question is where are you a fan of the show?

I'm more mellow towards this show now, I respect it for what it was trying to but I could never fully enjoy it, loved the toy line though, especially the drones.

@sabrblade basically allnewsuperrobot asks questions about beast wars and wants opinions about the answers and why we think that way. As you can see his first one was about seeing more of what could have been with the agenda episodes

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm more mellow towards this show now, I respect it for what it was trying to but I could never fully enjoy it, loved the toy line though, especially the drones.

@sabrblade basically allnewsuperrobot asks questions about beast wars and wants opinions about the answers and why we think that way. As you can see his first one was about seeing more of what could have been with the agenda episodes

I find yours to be an opinion not shared by many, I know very few people who enjoy this toy line at all maybe one or two figures but overall I find most people just like the toy line for the series

Oh, I love Beast Machines. It's up there in my top 5 series just beneath Beast Wars, Rescue Bots, Animated, Masterforce, and tied with RiD 2001/Car Robots.

My post in this other thread should speak volumes of how much I'm into Beast Machines.