The Energon Pub

ComicBookBoo wrote:TF3...i'm expecting the same, when Bay announced it was the last movie i thought - **** he's gonna kill prime AGAIN

Don't worry, he does this all the time.

As for the movie tanking, well, it's a Michael Bay movie. It'll make boatloads of cash and the critics will tear it to shreds. I haven't really been following the news on TF3, mind you, but that's the pattern in Michael Bay's movies.

Shadowman wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:TF3...i'm expecting the same, when Bay announced it was the last movie i thought - **** he's gonna kill prime AGAIN

Don't worry, he does this all the time.

As for the movie tanking, well, it's a Michael Bay movie. It'll make boatloads of cash and the critics will tear it to shreds. I haven't really been following the news on TF3, mind you, but that's the pattern in Michael Bay's movies.

always ignore the critics, they get paid to be bitchy because they carnt do anything talented themselves

ComicBookBoo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:TF3...i'm expecting the same, when Bay announced it was the last movie i thought - **** he's gonna kill prime AGAIN

Don't worry, he does this all the time.

As for the movie tanking, well, it's a Michael Bay movie. It'll make boatloads of cash and the critics will tear it to shreds. I haven't really been following the news on TF3, mind you, but that's the pattern in Michael Bay's movies.

always ignore the critics, they get paid to be bitchy because they carnt do anything talented themselves

No, they get paid to tell people their opinions because they're smart enough to have found a way to sell their opinion. The idea is that people who watch will have a better understanding of something so that they know what they're getting into.

And of course you listen to critics. No one ever got better by being told they're perfect. You need someone to tell you that you're doing something wrong so you can learn to do it right.

Shadowman wrote:You need someone to tell you that you're doing something wrong so you can learn to do it right.

You post too much and your posts are boring. Post less and make them more fun and interesting.

Burn wrote:

Shadowman wrote:You need someone to tell you that you're doing something wrong so you can learn to do it right.

You post too much and your posts are boring. Post less and make them more fun and interesting.

But where am I going to get an army of midget clowns at this hour?!

Shadowman wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:TF3...i'm expecting the same, when Bay announced it was the last movie i thought - **** he's gonna kill prime AGAIN

Don't worry, he does this all the time.

As for the movie tanking, well, it's a Michael Bay movie. It'll make boatloads of cash and the critics will tear it to shreds. I haven't really been following the news on TF3, mind you, but that's the pattern in Michael Bay's movies.

always ignore the critics, they get paid to be bitchy because they carnt do anything talented themselves

No, they get paid to tell people their opinions because they're smart enough to have found a way to sell their opinion. The idea is that people who watch will have a better understanding of something so that they know what they're getting into.

And of course you listen to critics. No one ever got better by being told they're perfect. You need someone to tell you that you're doing something wrong so you can learn to do it right.

If only they did that, instead their egos are so overblown they think anyone with a different opinion is unevolved. This coming from a guy who liked Cloverfield no less.

Orci & Kurtzman are clearly the problem in terms of writing. They're hacks, plain and simple.

Let's go over the list, shall we?

TF1: No plot. None. Glasses and a cube? Are you kidding me? The only thing that makes the movie watchable is the wow factor. (Which quickly fades.) Very long, very boring.

ROTF: Actually had a story, but the depth was paper thin. (Faster paced, watchable, but not perfect. The better parts had to have been handled by Kruger.)

Star Trek: REUSED the same bit at least three times! (Kirk dangling and hanging on for dear life.) Once I realized that, the rest of it started to unravel. Better than their TF offerings, by far, but clearly has major problems. And I don't mean the fact that it's a reboot, they did their best to keep in step with classic Trek, but the things they used and ideas they had (such as Kirk dangling off of things, getting his ass beat mercilessly ALL the time) just didn't work.

Hawaii Five-0: The pilot was rushed, very fast paced, barely any characterization, and the ending was predictable and then some. (Both of the following episodes, both written by others and NOT Orci & Kurtzman, were excellent, with each of them besting the previous week's offering. The show has promise, O&K do not.)

I'm sorry, but any problems people have with the movieverse are Orci & Kurtzman's fault. Prime having flames? Bay. Some of the juvenile humor? Bay. The rest of it being craptastic in many spots and just flat out bad? Orci & Kurtzman. I'm not sure why so many people stand behind these guys and put them on a pedestal, because they don't deserve it.

Bay made the visuals pop, Bay poured blood, sweat and tears into his work, and Bay's name helped make TransFormers profitable and work on the big screen. Until he came along, no one heard of O&K and no one gave a damn.

And they shouldn't now, either. The second movie was closer to a G1 storyline than the first movie, and it was actually watchable without making you want to fall asleep like the first one does.

Neither movie is perfect, both have tremendous flaws, but I have the feeling that the 3rd one will be the best. With Kruger writing it, Bay giving it his all (his last hurrah), and Hasbro under pressure to deliver what may be the last film for a long while...I think the third time will definitely be the charm.

Problem is, it's taken too long to get here and should've been better from the start. It's going to really suck to get the story on a good level and have it be the one that ends it all.

Down with O&K. Down, down I say.

Autobot032 wrote:Orci & Kurtzman are clearly the problem in terms of writing. They're hacks, plain and simple.

Let's go over the list, shall we?

TF1: No plot. None. Glasses and a cube? Are you kidding me? The only thing that makes the movie watchable is the wow factor. (Which quickly fades.) Very long, very boring.

ROTF: Actually had a story, but the depth was paper thin. (Faster paced, watchable, but not perfect. The better parts had to have been handled by Kruger.)

Star Trek: REUSED the same bit at least three times! (Kirk dangling and hanging on for dear life.) Once I realized that, the rest of it started to unravel. Better than their TF offerings, by far, but clearly has major problems. And I don't mean the fact that it's a reboot, they did their best to keep in step with classic Trek, but the things they used and ideas they had (such as Kirk dangling off of things, getting his ass beat mercilessly ALL the time) just didn't work.

Hawaii Five-0: The pilot was rushed, very fast paced, barely any characterization, and the ending was predictable and then some. (Both of the following episodes, both written by others and NOT Orci & Kurtzman, were excellent, with each of them besting the previous week's offering. The show has promise, O&K do not.)

I'm sorry, but any problems people have with the movieverse are Orci & Kurtzman's fault. Prime having flames? Bay. Some of the juvenile humor? Bay. The rest of it being craptastic in many spots and just flat out bad? Orci & Kurtzman. I'm not sure why so many people stand behind these guys and put them on a pedestal, because they don't deserve it.

Bay made the visuals pop, Bay poured blood, sweat and tears into his work, and Bay's name helped make TransFormers profitable and work on the big screen. Until he came along, no one heard of O&K and no one gave a damn.

And they shouldn't now, either. The second movie was closer to a G1 storyline than the first movie, and it was actually watchable without making you want to fall asleep like the first one does.

Neither movie is perfect, both have tremendous flaws, but I have the feeling that the 3rd one will be the best. With Kruger writing it, Bay giving it his all (his last hurrah), and Hasbro under pressure to deliver what may be the last film for a long while...I think the third time will definitely be the charm.

Problem is, it's taken too long to get here and should've been better from the start. It's going to really suck to get the story on a good level and have it be the one that ends it all.

Down with O&K. Down, down I say.

I agree with everything! Except for ROTF not being deep. There are definately deep themes and connections in this movie, but no one ever notices it.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Orci & Kurtzman are clearly the problem in terms of writing. They're hacks, plain and simple.

Let's go over the list, shall we?

TF1: No plot. None. Glasses and a cube? Are you kidding me? The only thing that makes the movie watchable is the wow factor. (Which quickly fades.) Very long, very boring.

ROTF: Actually had a story, but the depth was paper thin. (Faster paced, watchable, but not perfect. The better parts had to have been handled by Kruger.)

Star Trek: REUSED the same bit at least three times! (Kirk dangling and hanging on for dear life.) Once I realized that, the rest of it started to unravel. Better than their TF offerings, by far, but clearly has major problems. And I don't mean the fact that it's a reboot, they did their best to keep in step with classic Trek, but the things they used and ideas they had (such as Kirk dangling off of things, getting his ass beat mercilessly ALL the time) just didn't work.

Hawaii Five-0: The pilot was rushed, very fast paced, barely any characterization, and the ending was predictable and then some. (Both of the following episodes, both written by others and NOT Orci & Kurtzman, were excellent, with each of them besting the previous week's offering. The show has promise, O&K do not.)

I'm sorry, but any problems people have with the movieverse are Orci & Kurtzman's fault. Prime having flames? Bay. Some of the juvenile humor? Bay. The rest of it being craptastic in many spots and just flat out bad? Orci & Kurtzman. I'm not sure why so many people stand behind these guys and put them on a pedestal, because they don't deserve it.

Bay made the visuals pop, Bay poured blood, sweat and tears into his work, and Bay's name helped make TransFormers profitable and work on the big screen. Until he came along, no one heard of O&K and no one gave a damn.

And they shouldn't now, either. The second movie was closer to a G1 storyline than the first movie, and it was actually watchable without making you want to fall asleep like the first one does.

Neither movie is perfect, both have tremendous flaws, but I have the feeling that the 3rd one will be the best. With Kruger writing it, Bay giving it his all (his last hurrah), and Hasbro under pressure to deliver what may be the last film for a long while...I think the third time will definitely be the charm.

Problem is, it's taken too long to get here and should've been better from the start. It's going to really suck to get the story on a good level and have it be the one that ends it all.

Down with O&K. Down, down I say.

I agree with everything! Except for ROTF not being deep. There are definately deep themes and connections in this movie, but no one ever notices it.

Sure, there's a little bit of depth, especially the religious overtones, such as what was used in G1 (though, I'm not sure that's what was always intended. I think we, the fans, made that connection...) but I think Kruger was responsible for that. I doubt O&K had anything to do with the depth of the story.

Anything they get their hands on, no depth. It's just two dimensional and "looks" good on paper, but feels 2-D, once on film.

They suck. Flat out.

In their defense (and trust me, i'm one of the more vocal detractors) they have done a great job on Fringe (even if it is just an X-Files KO)

Burn wrote:In their defense (and trust me, i'm one of the more vocal detractors) they have done a great job on Fringe (even if it is just an X-Files KO)

Maybe they're not capable of doing more than one thing at time, perhaps.

It might explain why they do well with Fringe (can't say, never watched it), but suck with everything else.

I do mean everything.

Autobot032 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Orci & Kurtzman are clearly the problem in terms of writing. They're hacks, plain and simple.

Let's go over the list, shall we?

TF1: No plot. None. Glasses and a cube? Are you kidding me? The only thing that makes the movie watchable is the wow factor. (Which quickly fades.) Very long, very boring.

ROTF: Actually had a story, but the depth was paper thin. (Faster paced, watchable, but not perfect. The better parts had to have been handled by Kruger.)

Star Trek: REUSED the same bit at least three times! (Kirk dangling and hanging on for dear life.) Once I realized that, the rest of it started to unravel. Better than their TF offerings, by far, but clearly has major problems. And I don't mean the fact that it's a reboot, they did their best to keep in step with classic Trek, but the things they used and ideas they had (such as Kirk dangling off of things, getting his ass beat mercilessly ALL the time) just didn't work.

Hawaii Five-0: The pilot was rushed, very fast paced, barely any characterization, and the ending was predictable and then some. (Both of the following episodes, both written by others and NOT Orci & Kurtzman, were excellent, with each of them besting the previous week's offering. The show has promise, O&K do not.)

I'm sorry, but any problems people have with the movieverse are Orci & Kurtzman's fault. Prime having flames? Bay. Some of the juvenile humor? Bay. The rest of it being craptastic in many spots and just flat out bad? Orci & Kurtzman. I'm not sure why so many people stand behind these guys and put them on a pedestal, because they don't deserve it.

Bay made the visuals pop, Bay poured blood, sweat and tears into his work, and Bay's name helped make TransFormers profitable and work on the big screen. Until he came along, no one heard of O&K and no one gave a damn.

And they shouldn't now, either. The second movie was closer to a G1 storyline than the first movie, and it was actually watchable without making you want to fall asleep like the first one does.

Neither movie is perfect, both have tremendous flaws, but I have the feeling that the 3rd one will be the best. With Kruger writing it, Bay giving it his all (his last hurrah), and Hasbro under pressure to deliver what may be the last film for a long while...I think the third time will definitely be the charm.

Problem is, it's taken too long to get here and should've been better from the start. It's going to really suck to get the story on a good level and have it be the one that ends it all.

Down with O&K. Down, down I say.

I agree with everything! Except for ROTF not being deep. There are definately deep themes and connections in this movie, but no one ever notices it.

Sure, there's a little bit of depth, especially the religious overtones, such as what was used in G1 (though, I'm not sure that's what was always intended. I think we, the fans, made that connection...) but I think Kruger was responsible for that. I doubt O&K had anything to do with the depth of the story.

Anything they get their hands on, no depth. It's just two dimensional and "looks" good on paper, but feels 2-D, once on film.

They suck. Flat out.

And thats exactly what I'm talking about. The Primes are assaciated with angels from what I can gather. Just watch the grave yard scene and Optimus is surrounded by angel statues. And The Fallen was a FALLEN Prime, so hes the ultimate traiter. Which is also why I think they changed it to 7 Primes rather than 13. And there is more to it too though. There is ALOT more of this type of symbolism in ROTF. I mean A FREKING LOT!

Fringe is in it's third season so they've worked on it while working on other stuff.

But yeah, everything else is pretty poor, not a single original idea between them, just rip-offs or rehashes of existing material.

SlyTF1 wrote:And thats exactly what I'm talking about. The Primes are assaciated with angels from what I can gather. Just watch the grave yard scene and Optimus is surrounded by angel statues. And The Fallen was a FALLEN Prime, so hes the ultimate traiter. Which is also why I think they changed it to 7 Primes rather than 13. And there is more to it too though. There is ALOT more of this type of symbolism in ROTF. I mean A FREKING LOT!

No, there isn't. You're just confusing coincidence with symbolism. I seriously doubt they intended to put Advanced Theology in RotF, a movie featuring John Turturro's ass.

While we're at it, Angel statues are minor iconography, not "deep symbolism." And the only thing regarding Archangels that almost all sources agree on is that Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael were three of them.

And to finish it off, none of Prime's deaths resemble that of Jesus, even remotely. I don't know if anyone believed that, but I'm putting it out there.

I'm still not sure how I know so much on Theology when the only time I was in a Church in the past 15 years was for a funeral.

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:And thats exactly what I'm talking about. The Primes are assaciated with angels from what I can gather. Just watch the grave yard scene and Optimus is surrounded by angel statues. And The Fallen was a FALLEN Prime, so hes the ultimate traiter. Which is also why I think they changed it to 7 Primes rather than 13. And there is more to it too though. There is ALOT more of this type of symbolism in ROTF. I mean A FREKING LOT!

No, there isn't. You're just confusing coincidence with symbolism. I seriously doubt they intended to put Advanced Theology in RotF, a movie featuring John Turturro's ass.

While we're at it, Angel statues are minor iconography, not "deep symbolism." And the only thing regarding Archangels that almost all sources agree on is that Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael were three of them.

And to finish it off, none of Prime's deaths resemble that of Jesus, even remotely. I don't know if anyone believed that, but I'm putting it out there.

I'm still not sure how I know so much on Theology when the only time I was in a Church in the past 15 years was for a funeral.

Optimus for a long time has been a Messianic Archetype, a great leader who dies only to return during his people's darkest hour to lead them to victory. Direct parallel's with Jesus (read: Christian symbolism like the cross) aren't necessarily required for this.

Also, the Primes do fit perfectly as a parallel for Archangels. Earlier peroids of Jeudeo-Christian faiths had far more than three Archangels, and The Fallen easily fits in as the role of Lucifer, the fallen angel.

More bizzarely, I've read a theory that compares Revenge of the Fallen's overall plot to various Egyptian myths about the gods, which would fit the theme for the film's latter half. The link to that can be found here: http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2009/07/t ... art-1.html

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:And thats exactly what I'm talking about. The Primes are assaciated with angels from what I can gather. Just watch the grave yard scene and Optimus is surrounded by angel statues. And The Fallen was a FALLEN Prime, so hes the ultimate traiter. Which is also why I think they changed it to 7 Primes rather than 13. And there is more to it too though. There is ALOT more of this type of symbolism in ROTF. I mean A FREKING LOT!

No, there isn't. You're just confusing coincidence with symbolism. I seriously doubt they intended to put Advanced Theology in RotF, a movie featuring John Turturro's ass.

While we're at it, Angel statues are minor iconography, not "deep symbolism." And the only thing regarding Archangels that almost all sources agree on is that Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael were three of them.

And to finish it off, none of Prime's deaths resemble that of Jesus, even remotely. I don't know if anyone believed that, but I'm putting it out there.

I'm still not sure how I know so much on Theology when the only time I was in a Church in the past 15 years was for a funeral.

There is more though. Even though it may be coencidence, its still there. Like the number 6 is supposed to mean imperfect or somthing to that effect. And Sam has it on his shirt at the end battle of the movie, but when he has that vision with the Primes, the shirt is blown to pieces with that sectoin missing. I doubt they ment to do this, but its still there.

SlyTF1 wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:I didn't get the reviews at all. They made it out to be the worst movie in existence or at least alot of random youtube people did. Of course, on YT there's always a bunch of random people who hate whatever it is.

You have to wonder if they even watch movies very often...

Only because its "cool" to make fun of M Bay. I saw people on YT praising WFC for things that the movies did, and yet they complained about it in the movies!

Ok, enlighten me here, cuz I've played through WFC numerous times, and I never saw anything in the game that had me say or think "I remember this from the movies."

And as far as religious symbolism in ROTF, I'm sorry, I'm on the coincidence bandwagon here. I don't think the writers nor Bay are anywhere near that clever.

As far as the topic at hand, will it tank? Doubt it. The real question should be will it be good. Again, doubt it. So far nothing I've seen about this movie has me thinking it'll be any good. Look at ROTF, huge box office success, and the movie was a hot, jumbled mess of craptastic proportions. I was hoping for something at least on par with the first film(with much less shaky cam), but got nothing near it. Did that stop ROTF from making a boatload, hell no, and unfortunately, no matter how good or bad TF 3(I flat out refuse to call it Dark of the Moon, such a stupid title)is, it's gonna make huge bank.

D-340 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:I didn't get the reviews at all. They made it out to be the worst movie in existence or at least alot of random youtube people did. Of course, on YT there's always a bunch of random people who hate whatever it is.

You have to wonder if they even watch movies very often...

Only because its "cool" to make fun of M Bay. I saw people on YT praising WFC for things that the movies did, and yet they complained about it in the movies!

Ok, enlighten me here, cuz I've played through WFC numerous times, and I never saw anything in the game that had me say or think "I remember this from the movies."

Changing the robot's designes and making the story in no way resemble G1's. The only thing that happened was Megatron wanted dark energon, so he killed people. Big f*king deal. That was never in G1 at all, yet the developers claim that this is the official G1 prequel.

TF3 will indeed make mega profits, i just hope, i just PRAY theres a good film in there somewhere.

A lot depends on the marketing buzz the studio can generate.

SlyTF1 wrote:Changing the robot's designes and making the story in no way resemble G1's. The only thing that happened was Megatron wanted dark energon, so he killed people. Big f*king deal. That was never in G1 at all, yet the developers claim that this is the official G1 prequel.

First of all, the character design changes in WfC were minor at most, and all characters greatly resembled their G1 forms.

Second, no one claims it's the official G1 prequel. It's actually meant as a prequel to TF: Prime.

Third, much like G1, WfC didn't give focus to the humans.

Finally, the changes present in RotF were much, MUCH more significant than the changes in WfC.

Capt.Failure wrote:Optimus for a long time has been a Messianic Archetype, a great leader who dies only to return during his people's darkest hour to lead them to victory. Direct parallel's with Jesus (read: Christian symbolism like the cross) aren't necessarily required for this.

Also, the Primes do fit perfectly as a parallel for Archangels. Earlier peroids of Jeudeo-Christian faiths had far more than three Archangels, and The Fallen easily fits in as the role of Lucifer, the fallen angel.

More bizzarely, I've read a theory that compares Revenge of the Fallen's overall plot to various Egyptian myths about the gods, which would fit the theme for the film's latter half. The link to that can be found here: http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2009/07/t ... art-1.html

Wow, can you say Thinking too much into this?

I've never thought about that, in that context, except for the Opti-Jesus-Prime part.

Capt.Failure wrote:Optimus for a long time has been a Messianic Archetype, a great leader who dies only to return during his people's darkest hour to lead them to victory. Direct parallel's with Jesus (read: Christian symbolism like the cross) aren't necessarily required for this.

The only problem with that, despite the fact that he shares ZERO direct parallels with Jesus, is that he also wasn't a Messiah, since a Messiah is a spiritual redeemer.

You may recall that Prime hasn't redeemed anyone of anything by dying or resurrecting. When he comes back, the Decepticons are still there and the War rages on. And before you say it, the Hate Plague could have been resolved by Rodimus.

Shadowman wrote:


Second, no one claims it's the official G1 prequel. It's actually meant as a prequel to TF: Prime.

Yeah, I took it as this, it's own continuity. Though I will be interested to see how WFC and Prime tie together, if at all.

Third, much like G1, WfC didn't give focus to the humans.

G1 one had plenty of human heavy episodes along the way. So no you're wrong on this one. Humans have been a major pivotal role in every series except beast machines prior. (though in Beast wars they would prove be a huge part of cybertrons history in the great war which is part of the same block.)

Humans have been the difference between the Decepticons and the Autobots. In the majority of series they are the reason the Autobots prevail because they give them home court advantage on the battlefield of earth against a foe that otherwise dominates them.

I disliked that about WFC and I am going be extremely critical of the Dark Energon plot. It sucks. It basically craps on the Decepticons supremacy as being warriors as they never needed a plot device to knock the autobots on their butts before. It's like of course the military can beat up workers and the police in real life, it's not surprising that it would play out that way with giant robots.

It's waaay too much of a plot device as it does exactly whatever the heck it feels like and displays no consistent behavior. When Jetfire talks about it , it sounds like simply a biological weapon of massive destruction. I'd been fine with that. Oh no...they couldn't kept it straight forward and simply like that.

I'd been fine if all it did was wreck stuff that comes in contact with it or makes it malfunction. They could made the plot Megatron just abused his WMD to point it damaged the planet WITHOUT making this magical energy source that makes machines suddenly become decepticon property for it being placed on to it. It blows up stuff in another instance, and Makes Megatron and decepticons more powerful....just because it does. I'm sorry that's entirely too much plot convennce.

Yes I'm aware Dark Energon supposed be Angolmois basically as it comes from Unicron. It still just did whatever it felt like with no good explaination waaay too often. I mean if it comes from Unicron....why would it function thru Megatron's will then? I could have done with out all of that silliness of dork energon in WFC.

I know Hasbro wants create a single continuity(like how Beast wars and machines directly tied to G1.) to follow for several years to not reboot as immediately as they have. War for cybertron isn't quite it. If nothing else they need downplay the dark energon in any prequels and sequels as a plot device. It's as bad as sari's key in animated's first season. It's just lazy writing.