The Energon Pub

Theres a couple things that boggle my mind. I keep seeing them mentioned and I figure rather than keep repeating myself as a counter point to them Id just address it in one thread. (though Im sure I'll repeat it at some point.)

I'll just say this, Im completely biased against the 86 film. I dont want to see anything mirror it in the new movies. I hated it as a kid, I dont think it was that great now. (though Ive forgiven Rodimus/hot rod for being a substandard replacement for prime, he was doomed from the start. Hes fine as hot rod.) It basically tossed transformers into space, and rendered their alt modes useless. Why most of the newer characters alt modes no longer were anything that needed blend in. It became giant robots fighting in space, not robots in disguise.

Due to filming cost we wont see an entire space based story as a live action style film. If someone wanted do a prequel as an animated deal(or just do some start to DVD animated flicks would be cool. even if they werent related to bay-universe.) , or CGI like the new ninja turtles film was that would work. But quit expecting an all transformers movie in live action.

Its transformers in the real world.(which gremlins was called gremlins, but Billy was the star of it in same way Sam was for transformers with bumble bee as his Gizmo heh.) Which human interactions fit into that. Which like it or not this makes the movie less geek centric. People who arent transformers fans can enjoy it and have something to ground it to reality. Humans are here stay for live action, as too many reasons against removing them. So bulk of the action going likely always be on earth and involving them.

On to next part Galvatron. Why do people suggest this like its a good thing? I hated Megatron being reformated as Galvatron. One he looked horrible, two his name sounded dumb, and I hated his voice compared to Megatron. He downgraded in just about every way. If they were going use this name, they d done it RotF upon his revival as he was rebuilt. They said they didnt to avoid confusing the crowds. Which I think for that reason its better.

I mean besides changing the name, what would it really accomplish. Megatron can be rebuilt and upgraded and keep the name he has just fine. It sounds way better. Galvatron sounded as much as knock off name to Megatron as Rodimus Prime did to Optimus. Both were inferior names that sounded dumb. (optimus prime actually means something, First and Best...what heck does Rodimus mean?)

Besides the arguement of well Megatron get upgraded in series his name changes....should he though? I dont think so. I mean in unicron trilogy he bounced back and forth between the two names. Mostly to tie up the rights to both of them. If they wanted introduce a Galvatron character who isnt Megatron, his own seperate entity like IDW comics did is fine. Butleave the one true leader of the decepticons name alone.

As for Unicron, what makes you thnik hes a good villain bring in. Sure hes huge, and wreck stuff, but if hes so big the rest of the transformers arent even visible on screen then it doesnt make for a very interesting fight. You weren't thrilled about Devastator, what makes you think this will work well? Unless theres something close to same size to fight it, then dont both using it. Otherwise Unicron requires a plot device to defeat.

Unlike the 86 film and following season, if they do have him go into robot mode, what does it accomplish. Hes still too damn huge to do anything with as even metroplex would be a spec. He d need be just a large powerful transformer to be remotely interesting. (or have a smaller avatar to fight inside him.)


Which theres already been a more powerful transformer bossing around Megatron and making him their wench, the fallen. I dont think we need another plotdevice (only a prime can defeat me.) ladden villain to boss around Megatron after RotF. Let Megatron rule, or if there needs be another ruler to struggle with him, like Starxus or shockwave thats fine too, but they re equals or compareable power and make for an interesting conflict storywise.

Ultimately I feel theres better options to explore with in the transformers universe than Unicron (and making Galvatron out of Megatron.) or just modeling a movie after the 86 movie. (not that I'd be against Ultra Magnus, Springer and Hotrod being added.) If Unicron were ever be added, it should be the finale , which at the moment I dont think Hasbro going end the series at 3 with transformers being more popular than its ever been. Ultimately I d prefer keep the mystical out of my sci fi as much as possible. (which all artifacts used so far can be argued are just really amazing technology we dont understand.) Especially transformer gods. But thats me. Rather than repeat bits of all this rant, Ill just get all out here.

(TLDR version, Galvatron is a stupid name, and Unicron is a huge useless plot device not a villain, why do you want this?)

Lastjustice wrote:Theres a couple things that boggle my mind. I keep seeing them mentioned and I figure rather than keep repeating myself as a counter point to them Id just address it in one thread. (though Im sure I'll repeat it at some point.)

I'll just say this, Im completely biased against the 86 film. I dont want to see anything mirror it in the new movies. I hated it as a kid, I dont think it was that great now. (though Ive forgiven Rodimus/hot rod for being a substandard replacement for prime, he was doomed from the start. Hes fine as hot rod.) It basically tossed transformers into space, and rendered their alt modes useless. Why most of the newer characters alt modes no longer were anything that needed blend in. It became giant robots fighting in space, not robots in disguise.

Due to filming cost we wont see an entire space based story as a live action style film. If someone wanted do a prequel as an animated deal(or just do some start to DVD animated flicks would be cool. even if they werent related to bay-universe.) , or CGI like the new ninja turtles film was that would work. But quit expecting an all transformers movie in live action.

Its transformers in the real world.(which gremlins was called gremlins, but Billy was the star of it in same way Sam was for transformers with bumble bee as his Gizmo heh.) Which human interactions fit into that. Which like it or not this makes the movie less geek centric. People who arent transformers fans can enjoy it and have something to ground it to reality. Humans are here stay for live action, as too many reasons against removing them. So bulk of the action going likely always be on earth and involving them.

On to next part Galvatron. Why do people suggest this like its a good thing? I hated Megatron being reformated as Galvatron. One he looked horrible, two his name sounded dumb, and I hated his voice compared to Megatron. He downgraded in just about every way. If they were going use this name, they d done it RotF upon his revival as he was rebuilt. They said they didnt to avoid confusing the crowds. Which I think for that reason its better.

I mean besides changing the name, what would it really accomplish. Megatron can be rebuilt and upgraded and keep the name he has just fine. It sounds way better. Galvatron sounded as much as knock off name to Megatron as Rodimus Prime did to Optimus. Both were inferior names that sounded dumb. (optimus prime actually means something, First and Best...what heck does Rodimus mean?)

Besides the arguement of well Megatron get upgraded in series his name changes....should he though? I dont think so. I mean in unicron trilogy he bounced back and forth between the two names. Mostly to tie up the rights to both of them. If they wanted introduce a Galvatron character who isnt Megatron, his own seperate entity like IDW comics did is fine. Butleave the one true leader of the decepticons name alone.

As for Unicron, what makes you thnik hes a good villain bring in. Sure hes huge, and wreck stuff, but if hes so big the rest of the transformers arent even visible on screen then it doesnt make for a very interesting fight. You weren't thrilled about Devastator, what makes you think this will work well? Unless theres something close to same size to fight it, then dont both using it. Otherwise Unicron requires a plot device to defeat.

Unlike the 86 film and following season, if they do have him go into robot mode, what does it accomplish. Hes still too damn huge to do anything with as even metroplex would be a spec. He d need be just a large powerful transformer to be remotely interesting. (or have a smaller avatar to fight inside him.)


Which theres already been a more powerful transformer bossing around Megatron and making him their wench, the fallen. I dont think we need another plotdevice (only a prime can defeat me.) ladden villain to boss around Megatron after RotF. Let Megatron rule, or if there needs be another ruler to struggle with him, like Starxus or shockwave thats fine too, but they re equals or compareable power and make for an interesting conflict storywise.

Ultimately I feel theres better options to explore with in the transformers universe than Unicron (and making Galvatron out of Megatron.) or just modeling a movie after the 86 movie. (not that I'd be against Ultra Magnus, Springer and Hotrod being added.) If Unicron were ever be added, it should be the finale , which at the moment I dont think Hasbro going end the series at 3 with transformers being more popular than its ever been. Ultimately I d prefer keep the mystical out of my sci fi as much as possible. (which all artifacts used so far can be argued are just really amazing technology we dont understand.) Especially transformer gods. But thats me. Rather than repeat bits of all this rant, Ill just get all out here.

(TLDR version, Galvatron is a stupid name, and Unicron is a huge useless plot device not a villain, why do you want this?)

Other than being completly against G1, i have to say i agree with everything your saying.

Other than being completly against G1, i have to say I agree with everything your saying.

I liked G1, I just didnt care for the 86 film and most of the aftermath in Season 3. But thats another thread of mine.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=49426

If you wanna debate that, feel free pick that up here.

Otherwise carry on with said topic heh.

Everyone have their favorites and want to see them on screen.(Where is Tidal Wave?)

TulioDude wrote:Everyone have their favorites and want to see them on screen.(Where is Tidal Wave?)

Well Megatron already exists in the movies, Thats cool enough for me. If they have bring in Galvatron just make him a seperate bot.

As for Tidal Wave, I figured that might be a cool character bring in. Hes a decepticon war ship, he scans and blows up a carrier, and hides out on earth as their mobile base. Which they can bring in a bunch of seekers to be naval planes like Thundercracker can be a Blue angel painted F-18. I could totally see him working as id like see him or trypticon used as the end movie finale fight, but something the autobots can duke it out with.

They can always bring in Omega Supreme as the autobots counter weapon. Id like see him show up with an army of unnamed autobots, so they d have something to kill then on the good guys side. Have a second group of autobots under command of Ultra magnus. I dont want the bad guys looking like they cant kill any autobots, just I dont want see them go spirit of 86 and waste the main line up to show they arent chumps. There needs be fodder on both sides. (which bringing in the Go bots guardians might be a fun fodd squad heh.)

I agree. The Galvatron and Unicron characters got WAY overused with he Unicron Trilogy. It doesnt seem like it would work for the planet destroyer (Oh god look at what they did to galactus)

TulioDude wrote:Everyone have their favorites and want to see them on screen.

I definitely agree with you, We all have different opinion on things and it's great that you have expressed your opinions here and not keep it for yourself. Honestly, I don't care if Galvatron or Unicron or Rodimus Prime as long as it is needed in the plot.

Well, honestly, I'm hoping to see Prowl in the movies.

Because they're cool.
Simple as that. I actually didn't grow up with the animate movie...and had no real opinion of it. But people told me about the story line while I was attending art school and I though, "Wow, thats a neat storyline to wrap up a rather large mythos." TYou had the iconic death of most if not all of the first Gen's, and their leader Optimus. Humans put into a alien environment and forced to play the roles the transformers played on earth...to transform and blend in. And what would be the end all be all of any transformer......a transforming PLANET!

I mean, if this was the 80's or early 90's, I would say I would be against it too because we wouldn't have the capacity of doing something worthy of this concept. But were in an age where digital Effects and media are breaking bounderies and creating whole new worlds and universes. As an artist and FX's person, I think the time is ripe to explore the concepts presented in Unicron. And I also like this character because for being a plnt transformer....he remained surprising human in his alt mode....which I thought was a nice duality. He's like this living entity, this demi-god of doom that our characters have to face.

I would agree that in the world Michael Bay has set up...it can't fit. Or rather shouldn't. But again I'm one of the few which will openly say I want new blood. However strangely the concepts of Military and space and fighting aliens is nothing new, and the most recent successes would be ID4 and Armageddon. One actually directed by the Bay. So I can see it fleshed out visually....but it's not up to me or anyone else really...it's up to producers and directors and marketing ploys.....hence why I'll predict well see plush dinobots for kids in this third film.

As far as Galvatron.....I liked him because it was a side of Megatron I didn't know existed. It was a loyalty to his world. He was all up for serving Unicron till it came time to consume Cybertron....then he turned. He showed he wasn't merely a goon just hell bent on power...he had an allegience to Cybertron....a warped one, but it was there. And you had this villan that was being torn in two and actually attacked Unicron, that was great! It's classic character inter-turmoil and thats awesome stuff for any movie plot. Great character development I would love to see Weaving and Nimoy flesh out verbally because I think those two could pull it off nicely. However that not what we will get.

No, more likely Galvatron will end up the Aircraft Carrier bot Bay has been wanting to do all his life. Ugh.....


So as of now I'm rooting for them both, not out of all the cool stuff I see and potential I think they hold, but out of a sick morbid curiosity of how bad something potentially great can be ruined all because of narrow vision.

But at least we'll have explosions and hot chick huh? HUH?


Laters,
Josh

honestly i don't want to see unicron in the movie either, I hated how they made galactus in the FF2 movie, unicron wouldn't be much better.

as far as human to transformer scene ratio, I don't nessicerily want all humans reoved from the movie, I just want more scenes of transformers, rather than 30 minutes of scenes with transformers in a 2+ hour movie, and I don't just mean alt-modes parked silently in NEST'S base. it's a movie about transformrers, I want to see more than a half hour of transformers, we can still have Sam, Mikea and the NEST guys, but it isn't totally impossible to balance them out with transformer footage as well.

and to be honest, I don't think it's something that would make it retardedly expensive either, most sci-fi movies these day are mostly Sci-Fi, hel, even LOTR was mostly CGI

I think the only issue pro-Unicron (and it's not a very good one, I admit) is that in ROTF they've already pretty much pillaged the baddest of the baddies (the Fallen) (and, I think, done a piss poor job making him scary). The issue is, that every succeeding sequel in a sense has to be *bigger* than the ones before. We went from Megatron as the baddie in 2007 to, really, two baddies--the Fallen and Devastator (either could have/should have held their own Movie Badass Villain Boss). HOW do you possibly top that? Unicron seems about the only logical choice....

Staying within canon, that is. It's possible they could do some sort of Stormbringer kind of story--the issue is we need a SUPER scary hardcore badass to be worthy of our developing heros, and though hardcore fans would recognize the Stormbringer storyline, it wouldn't really be 'worth it' financially--these hardcore fans would see the movie no matter what. They need a baddie from canon that even relatively moderate fans will recognize.

If the threat isn't big enough, the Autobots come across as bullies.

Primus forbid, but maybe writers could use a little something called 'originality'?

HK, not getting hopes up.

i just have a feeeling if he comes into the movie its going to cost a lot to make him and the pl;aent will transform and it will be a super close up and then he will probraly die in 1 min after he transformers and i have a feeling everyone is going to be dissapointed

Unicron cannot work in live action, plain & simple. He's an enormous planet that goes arounds eating planets and I honestly dont see how he can work in live action and the poor planet has already gone through a maelstrom of overusage and pointless mentions in the Unicron Trilogy.

For Galvatron I honestly dont see how he can be redeemed after the Unicron trilogy when if we do get Galvatron how do we know hasbro wont find the easy way out and repaint a bloody Megatron toy again!

Also I think Megatron is fine as he is without someone coming along and changing him into someone else, thats what G1 was good for.

Unicron should be left alone. He just wouldn't fit into the Bay movies.

Megatron should be the baddest guy on the screen. In the first movie they set Megatron up as an unstoppable force of evil and then they turn him into a puppet. I didn't like that choice. Hopefully Megs will return in the third movie as his origional bad self.

The only reason that Unicron would be in Bay's TF movie would be for the amount of explosions he can stick on there. As for Galvatron, prob won't happen, bc they said that they didn't want to confuse the general audience.

There are many reasons for wanting Unicron and Galvatron in the live action movie series. I personally don't care if they get introduced or not. My main concern is how the characters are written into the story. It's great to have familiar characters in one form or another and it's also great to have new characters but either way, I want good writing and good direction while we're at it.

Oh man, all this Galvatron bashing is breaking my heart. I thought Galvatron was awesome; a great way to progress the character, rather than killing Megatron off and introducing someone else (like they did Prime). It was probably one of my favorite parts of the 1986 movie. As for the name, I thought "Galvatron" was cool too. Kinda like "Megatron", but different!

Oh yeah, one more thing. Badmouthing the '86 movie is blasphemous!! How dare you!

Regarding them in the movies, I don't think Unicron would work at all, and re-inventing Megatron into Galvatron would be difficult also. The story and background would take more time than a 2.5 hour movie could convey.

Energon Is My Drug wrote:Oh man, all this Galvatron bashing is breaking my heart. I thought Galvatron was awesome; a great way to progress the character, rather than killing Megatron off and introducing someone else (like they did Prime). It was probably one of my favorite parts of the 1986 movie. As for the name, I thought "Galvatron" was cool too. Kinda like "Megatron", but different!

Oh yeah, one more thing. Badmouthing the '86 movie is blasphemous!! How dare you!

Regarding them in the movies, I don't think Unicron would work at all, and re-inventing Megatron into Galvatron would be difficult also. The story and background would take more time than a 2.5 hour movie could convey.

That's what comics and books are for

I DO NOT WANT Unicron, Galvatron or Rodimus Prime at all in the bayverse. They are way way overused and I'm freaking sick of them. I think Megatron is staying Megatron. I wasn't to fond of Galvy in the 86 cartoon (true, i've only seen reruns since I was born in 83 and own season 3 on dvd), he just wasn't EVIL enough for me.

I agree with HK, how about some originality?

I think if they want to throw another Badass in there, throw in COMIC Shockwave.

Energon Is My Drug wrote:Oh man, all this Galvatron bashing is breaking my heart. I thought Galvatron was awesome; a great way to progress the character, rather than killing Megatron off and introducing someone else (like they did Prime). It was probably one of my favorite parts of the 1986 movie. As for the name, I thought "Galvatron" was cool too. Kinda like "Megatron", but different!

Oh yeah, one more thing. Badmouthing the '86 movie is blasphemous!! How dare you!

Regarding them in the movies, I don't think Unicron would work at all, and re-inventing Megatron into Galvatron would be difficult also. The story and background would take more time than a 2.5 hour movie could convey.

I'm a Galvatron supporter....so fret not. And knowing now Bay has no interest in backstory unless said backstoy has explosions....I woudn't worry about that being a factor. Truth is, Megs was left in a very crippled state, and knowing his current mode isn't going to cut it, he's going to be upgraded, simple as that. There's just no getting around it, what I do want to see is a power struggle between Starscream and Megs. Which leads Megs to seek out another source of power, that coming in the form of Unicron. But again, there's my love for these characters in battle for my detest for Bay's infamous re-invention in battle for my hopes to see them on the big screen. And truth be told, I don't want another Devastator power vaccume so against my better wishes, I vote no.

But that doesn't mean green light the minicons either.

Truth be told, the only way to upshow your previous film is to introduce the other bigger bots, but not the planet sized bots....so I say the safest bet would be Tripticon, O-mega Supreme, Fortress Maximus, so on and so forth.

Well the plot of the last movie kind of made it difficult for them to bring in Unicron, since his herald, a.k.a The Fallen is DEAD and had a different story.

nikeprime wrote:Well the plot of the last movie kind of made it difficult for them to bring in Unicron, since his herald, a.k.a The Fallen is DEAD and had a different story.

Unicron has no place in the Bayverse, at all. That's like heaping on a second helping of what didn't work.

Galvatron, if a separate entity from Megatron, I'd have no problems with.

Hot Rod, as long as he doesn't hog up the screen time (or at least make it an important, worthy story if they must.) would be okay with me.

In fact, with today's cars, we could easily have a GREAT Hot Rod.

But no Unicron. I grow oh, so tired, of hearing about him being in these movies. Damn him. I don't want him in the film(s).

In a way, Galvatron, Cyclonus, and the Sweeps could work. Especially the Sweeps. We watched clone after clone after clone of each Constructicon get blown to bits. Why not Cybertronian cannon fodder who don't give two craps about disguising themselves, due to their superiority complex?

Team up Megatron and Optimus to combat him and his forces, if you must, but seriously, just handle all of it right, and without Unicron.

No Unicron. NO.

Ok I was one start this I should really get back to my own thread hehe. I tried once before but my dang browser ate my reply since I took too long and didn't copy it when I did it. So hopefully this one goes better so I'm not typing this all for not.

As far as Galvatron.....I liked him because it was a side of Megatron I didn't know existed. It was a loyalty to his world.

Thats been Megatrons MO in just about every series. Even in G1 before the movie Megatron was willing put aside his difference to preserve things he valued. While we the audience dont see him this way cause our race is on the receiving end of it campaign, other Decepticons see him as a hero to their cause. While he is selfish and is more than willing break a few eggs make an omelet, he truly believes cybertron is best served under his leadership, even if that means completely crushing free will to make the perfect order.

Megatron despite all that doesn't want to see his own race die off. If for fact that would leave no one left to pick on or oppress hehe. They show this in RotF even as when he talks Prime(Is future of our race worth a single human life? You'll never stop at one! as megatron slid down that slippery slope of justifying any actions as a means to an end.) and The Fallen,(I've failed on earth, the all spark has been destroyed, our race is doomed.) he believes hes doing it for the good of all. Simliar to inner workings of Doom(he runs his nation in a manner that mirrors what megatron seeks create.) or Magneto in his views for mutantkind above the needs of humans he sees as insects.

He however demands total and complete loyalty, as why he beats heck out of starscream so often heh. Plus he's next biggest threat to his position, as long as everyone is too busy trying remove starscream, they can't remove him as the strongest rules with decepticons.

When Galvatron was introduced, post movie he might as well been an entirely new character since he barely operatedly like megatron did. We watched as he ran the decepticons into the ground a bunch of times to point the quints used them as lackeys since they were so worth out. it wasn't till Return of optimus Prime he actted as if he was Sane and a competent leader like when he was megatron. Like his sanity died with Prime. (which given how he reacted with Primes death in Armada that might be true heh.)

Unlike Prime who was revived and restored to his former glory (atleast till season 4 Rebirth made him seem a shadow of his former self since they crowbarred him into episodes.) Megatron was never going be his former self. He would always have the same lousy name, lamer look, and worse voice.

I think why in the comics they made them seperate entities, in the marvel comics, they simply had so Galvatron was from a future where Unicron attacked, while Megatron was from a current timeline where he was destroyed. I think it would worked out better if simply both Megatron and Prime died during the fight, and Galvatron was some weaker decepticon that sold himself out to Unicron to become the new leader. (or a dozen other different origins) Even the Scramble city OVA had Galvatron simply the city commander like Ultra Magnus (which I always felt these two were equals/rivals not Prime or Hot Rod.)

I just feel Megatron holds up more than well enough as his own being to have him repackaged with a crappier name and crazy personality was an injustice to just how cool his original character was. (though I was all for his alt mode being made into something more useful as Megatron hasn't really found a consisent one.)

If the threat isn't big enough, the Autobots come across as bullies.

I agree as they swung it back too much in revenge of the fallen. hey need bring in some fodder autobots as I mentioned. Ones no one is going cry over being scrapped. (which I was assuming thats the twins role in RoTF but I was proven wrong heh.) Its war, and war is hell and people die. So no offing Ironhide, or Ratchet again..Bumble bee is the yellow kid friendly character those never die. Prime died once, thats enough. So lets bring in an entire city of autobots , ones who can get torn apart as I think everyone would been happier if Devastator actually killed Mudflap. (I seriously was like he's so dead in the trailers hehe.)

They can bring in some new foes and make them Menacing without them being planet sized. One particularly Menacing badguy..Menasor, yeah I think the stunticons would be perfect fits for bayverse. I can picture their crazy driving and stunts making for some awesome scenes. Whether they can pull off Menasor as all them pulling together or make him several trucks that form together just make him bigger Im ok with that. Id just figure it be easier make cars look like something in robot mode and make a decent looking limb since they dont have as many odd parts as all constructicons did in their alt modes.

Unicron is a big bad guy, but hes too big. I dont mean just from the size stand point, I mean his power displays level planets, so he would be seen as utterlly ineffective every other time since he has the stakes too high if he succeeds. He suffers from this...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dLethality

A villain who doesn't kill heroes just by breathing on them is a better choice for this reason. (unless you want alot of dead autobots.) Id like see them just have Megatron be the main cheese(or fighting with somone on par for control.), with may be one or two large minions like Tidalwave and Menasor. Neither are smart enough lead the decepticons, so it doesn't challenge his position heh.

Oh man, all this Galvatron bashing is breaking my heart. I thought Galvatron was awesome; a great way to progress the character, rather than killing Megatron off and introducing someone else (like they did Prime). It was probably one of my favorite parts of the 1986 movie. As for the name, I thought "Galvatron" was cool too. Kinda like "Megatron", but different!

Oh yeah, one more thing. Badmouthing the '86 movie is blasphemous!! How dare you!

Sorry we can't all be fans hehe.

I DO NOT WANT Unicron, Galvatron or Rodimus Prime at all in the bayverse. They are way way overused and I'm freaking sick of them. I think Megatron is staying Megatron. I wasn't to fond of Galvy in the 86 cartoon (true, i've only seen reruns since I was born in 83 and own season 3 on dvd), he just wasn't EVIL enough for me.

Im with ya, oh am I with ya hehe.

But that doesn't mean green light the minicons either.

Mini-cons seem like a silly idea for live action. I mean theyw ere just smaller transformers, and hooked up as power ups. Most of them looked like smaller vechiles , which why would cybertronians look like vechiles but be too small ride in? We already have Wheelie and Frenzy as smaller bots, but they turned into things of compareable size and scale. Over all they were some gimmicky pokemon thing that needs stay in armada.

In a way, Galvatron, Cyclonus, and the Sweeps could work. Especially the Sweeps. We watched clone after clone after clone of each Constructicon get blown to bits. Why not Cybertronian cannon fodder who don't give two craps about disguising themselves, due to their superiority complex?

I have no probelm with Sweeps being fodder to blow away just lose the pink nails and facial hair. Scourage was a horrible looking robot, I didnt mind his alt mode, was like a flying hovercraft.

Speaking of hovercraft, I was thinking they need bring in depthcharge(well Alt form of Seaspray, but the bad assery of Depthcharge, as his name and personality are better.), and some naval based decepticons. I thnik it be cool see them have a fight at sea..but may be Im just playing too much Red Alert 3 haha. (which the Empires units are like transformers.) Having the decepticons earth based HQ be Tidal Wave, they could do a whole battle at sea then. Im just thinking angles they haven't done. (id also like see them bring in seekers, and fight the aerial bots hehe, even if only the leaders of combiner teams get any face time.)

Thast enough I need go bed so I can work in morning, later you crazy Bots hehe.

I am with most everyone else in thinking Unicron would not play well in live-action sense. What comes to mind is classic trek and the bugle chip of doom ie the Doomsday machine episode. They played blaring trumpet music swirled some lights inside a stone cornucopia dangling a model of the enterprise in front of it. While effects have improved to get across the scoop of planet sized eating machine will come off just 'silly' feeling I think.

I am also with others in feel Megs is just far more dimensional and compelling character then Galvatron. At least to me, it was nice to see Megs in the second film get over his brain freeze and say more then just his name over and over again.

I also agree that I'd like to see some the human sub-plots toned down and or brought more into unison with the bot plot lines. BUT I also understand that lot screen time for bots mean monumental amount of work. Comparing this films CGI is hard to equate. For this fact alone: The Optimus Prime computer generated model consisted of 10,108 individual parts, 1,830,898 polygons, 27,744 rig nodes, and 2336 texture maps.

The work going into these models is amazing and the rendering time for them must be awful. I do a little bit 3d work and am staggered by the amount time goes into that sort depth of animation. It is job that is often times boring and repetitive and generally speaking no one has clue how much effort goes into simple things like the curling of a finger or blink of an eye lid. It's why pixar movies take 5 to 6 plus years to make from start to end. If you sat me in front of that Optimus Prime model I'd cry first of joy at getting to see the inner workings of it then of dread if you expected me to do anything other then admire it. LOL

Classy

ClassyNX01 wrote:I am with most everyone else in thinking Unicron would not play well in live-action sense. What comes to mind is classic trek and the bugle chip of doom ie the Doomsday machine episode. They played blaring trumpet music swirled some lights inside a stone cornucopia dangling a model of the enterprise in front of it. While effects have improved to get across the scoop of planet sized eating machine will come off just 'silly' feeling I think.

I am also with others in feel Megs is just far more dimensional and compelling character then Galvatron. At least to me, it was nice to see Megs in the second film get over his brain freeze and say more then just his name over and over again.

I also agree that I'd like to see some the human sub-plots toned down and or brought more into unison with the bot plot lines. BUT I also understand that lot screen time for bots mean monumental amount of work. Comparing this films CGI is hard to equate. For this fact alone: The Optimus Prime computer generated model consisted of 10,108 individual parts, 1,830,898 polygons, 27,744 rig nodes, and 2336 texture maps.

The work going into these models is amazing and the rendering time for them must be awful. I do a little bit 3d work and am staggered by the amount time goes into that sort depth of animation. It is job that is often times boring and repetitive and generally speaking no one has clue how much effort goes into simple things like the curling of a finger or blink of an eye lid. It's why pixar movies take 5 to 6 plus years to make from start to end. If you sat me in front of that Optimus Prime model I'd cry first of joy at getting to see the inner workings of it then of dread if you expected me to do anything other then admire it. LOL

Classy

A CG artist, groovey.

There are a few here and there admist the art forums, welcome though. I was one, but opted for making real robots. Or, real enough for the time being.

I understand your admiration, but feel more pitty for these guys then anything else. I having tasted the CG world and knowing a guy who still works for ILM on a contract basis (He's worked on Spiderman 2 and 3 and other films as well) just can't get over how bad these artist are treated. I mean they're just worked like dogs and discarded once the software they've mastered becomes obsolete and something else comes down the pipeline. It's pretty aweful. And I just couldn't take sitting and staring for so long. Waiting for things to render only to find something wrong, take hours to trouble shoot, and render again only to find something new wrong. But strangley, I have the patience to do matte paintings and build...go fig.

But enough ranting of CGI.....

Someone mentioned Star Trek, and strangely thats how I see a movie Unicron panning out. The opening sequence to 2009 Trek being a prime example. The battle between that Giant Crab looking Romulan thing and those teeny tiny ships....was fantastic. You sub out The Romulan ship for Unicron, and the teeny tiny ships for O-Mega Supreme and Astrotrain and such, and you got yourself a great fight. Plot's pretty simple,

"So you and me can fight it our bud, or we can stop this giant friggin Moon Bot from destroying everything, wadda ya say?"

Yeah, seems pretty straight forward with me. All the arguments of characters staying true and not fitting and such seem moot being in the movieverse, especially Bay's, none of that applies. Its all cosmetic, Starscream has yet to envoke a uprising (No I'm not going to go out and read every little comic or novel adaptation to fill in someone else plot holes, waaayyyy too much work to do for a Bay film anyways), Devastator wasn't a giant doom puppy, Brawl "was" named Devastator and even then didn't form Bruticus, Wheelie didn't hump people's legs, and Jetfire....ah the list goes on and on with Jetfire. So to argue Galvatron isn't going to be great due to the series doesn't seem to compel me being, all Galvatron is when you strip away to it's core concept is a upgrade of Megatron under control of Unicron. And we know Megatron is going to be upgraded being he isn't going to keep that hook arm after having his wrecking balls busted as they were.

In all reality, I'm looking at the third film as I looked upon Wolverine Orgins....I know it's going to be bad, I know, some people just can't help themselves. It's just what they do. So I'm going to sit back and try to have some fun, see what good I can take out of it....and save it at that. Now I'm not going to go off and announce it was the best movie ever just because it raked in on kiddie cash over the summer, nor make excuses for it's prominent pitfalls, nor scrutinize people just because they openly hated it because, because frankly I can't blame them.

Unicron and Galvatron, characters I like, are going to be ruined as well as any other number of characters just due to their involvment....but thats what it is. What we should really think about is what characters can't help but ruin the series regardless of their re-invention.

Minicons make my list right off the bat. I feel we would just get a bizzare explosive version of "Batteries Not Included".
Unicron and Galvatron, not really the worst of the worst. In fact in the movie verse, really the next logical step. Something bigger to blow up.

Laters,
Josh

Joshua Vallse wrote:[quote="ClassyNX01"Unicron and Galvatron, characters I like, are going to be ruined as well as any other number of characters just due to their involvment....but thats what it is. What we should really think about is what characters can't help but ruin the series regardless of their re-invention.

Minicons make my list right off the bat. I feel we would just get a bizzare explosive version of "Batteries Not Included".
Unicron and Galvatron, not really the worst of the worst. In fact in the movie verse, really the next logical step. Something bigger to blow up.

Laters,
Josh

I guess perhaps my inner Autobot is showing as I must cling to hope things will improve despite the grim most likely reality. I still am holding out hope that perhaps the 3rd film will improve as there are some signs Bay is not totally deaf to the fans. People cried for more bots and they got it though think in the long run it gummed up the works. It takes special talent to deal with character heavy films specially in action films...sadly Bay not director with that as strong skill.

At any rate for my personal taste I liked Megs better then Galvatron. And for me Unicron is just going to be tricky to make feel like a really real threat despite the fact we are talking about a movie with alien robots. LOL Though if they tied it into the whole hype about 2012 and the end of times predictions it might be interesting. It's built in give me since according to the Myans our end comes when our own technology turns against us. It would be amazingly bold and refreshing if after a prolonged fight they actually had the earth destroyed by Unicron and it was more about what the Autobots could do to help us salvage the remains of humanity on some sort of escape ships. Even dabbled with a fanfic along those lines, not that ever got enough outlined to actually post any where. But that story would not fit the hollywood 'kiss, kiss' every thing is alright by the end of the movie formula Bay runs on. It also take at least 2 movies to do properly.


One thing I do know is please lets not pull the Optimus Prime dies card again. You get one shot at that Bay had his.

Classy

ClassyNX01 wrote:
I guess perhaps my inner Autobot is showing as I must cling to hope things will improve despite the grim most likely reality. I still am holding out hope that perhaps the 3rd film will improve as there are some signs Bay is not totally deaf to the fans. People cried for more bots and they got it though think in the long run it gummed up the works. It takes special talent to deal with character heavy films specially in action films...sadly Bay not director with that as strong skill.

At any rate for my personal taste I liked Megs better then Galvatron. And for me Unicron is just going to be tricky to make feel like a really real threat despite the fact we are talking about a movie with alien robots. LOL Though if they tied it into the whole hype about 2012 and the end of times predictions it might be interesting. It's built in give me since according to the Myans our end comes when our own technology turns against us. It would be amazingly bold and refreshing if after a prolonged fight they actually had the earth destroyed by Unicron and it was more about what the Autobots could do to help us salvage the remains of humanity on some sort of escape ships. Even dabbled with a fanfic along those lines, not that ever got enough outlined to actually post any where. But that story would not fit the hollywood 'kiss, kiss' every thing is alright by the end of the movie formula Bay runs on. It also take at least 2 movies to do properly.


One thing I do know is please lets not pull the Optimus Prime dies card again. You get one shot at that Bay had his.

Classy

Well I hope your right and I'm dead wrong. Honestly, though with my expectations dramatically lowered the 3rd film shouldn't be so hard on my stomach and eyes.

In reality I don't see a win situation out of this, people have suggested smaler city sized bots for the third film like Tripticon or Fortress Maximus....and even then people were yelling foul. I think it's just a shared fear of letting Bay anywhere near any number of characters all of us might enjoy. Which is a very valid fear, when Bay said he hated the Dinobots, I kind of felt relieved. Like, thank God he's not going to touch them.

I guess well see in a few years time.