The Energon Pub

I think there has to be a way to protect innocent people who did not buy more house then they could afford and peoples retirements and their income without rewarding people who were greedy and might have even commited crimes. The FBI is investigating 4 companies that failed. Do you think that if these big companies get a huge bail out by uncle sam then where is our share when we make a stupid choice and get into financial trouble? My husband one time trusted a friend and went to work with him. It turned out horrible and ended up taking over a year to financially recover from that. The friendship never quite went back to the brotherhood feel that they had before the misadventure. Where was our bail out? All we got was a valuable lesson to never go and work with a friend. We took a risk and it failed so if big companies take risks and they fail why should they have the government get them out of it?
Those are my thoughts what are yours?

I personally think the banks only got what they deserved! Doling out loans to people whom they conned into believing they could afford a house payment and really couldn't. It is their own fault they are in the crisis they are in. And, really, are they TRULY in crisis? It has come to light that most of these HUGE lending organizations that are asking for a government hand-out have multi-BILLION-dollar slush-funds set up to pay their upper management GIGANTIC bonuses! That just doesn't say "broke" to me!

The government should instead give that "rescue money" to the American people who are suffering under the weight of our crushing economy! After all, who better to know how to spend the American peoples' money other than the American people? We deserve a "bail-out" more than those fat-cat-bankers!

Yeah I don't quite agree with the bailout. I think the American economy will recover, and these companies personally are getting what they deserve. Now I don't know much about Mortgages and such as I have lived in Apartments and rental houses ever since i moved out, but I did look for a house this past year (found we just couldn't afford the initial cost), and everyone has told me, and I agree, adjustable rates are scams! You always want a fixed rate interest. IF your credit isn't good enough, you need to live in an apartment, get a credit card, charge something on it every month, and pay above the minimum, until your credit score gets high enough.

Anyway these duped a lot of people into houses with their adjustable rate BS. They are getting what they deserve now!

Pyrostrata wrote:I personally think the banks only got what they deserved! Doling out loans to people whom they conned into believing they could afford a house payment and really couldn't. It is their own fault they are in the crisis they are in. And, really, are they TRULY in crisis? It has come to light that most of these HUGE lending organizations that are asking for a government hand-out have multi-BILLION-dollar slush-funds set up to pay their upper management GIGANTIC bonuses! That just doesn't say "broke" to me!

The government should instead give that "rescue money" to the American people who are suffering under the weight of our crushing economy! After all, who better to know how to spend the American peoples' money other than the American people? We deserve a "bail-out" more than those fat-cat-bankers!

I totally agree with you! Why do we have to suffer because of greedy CEO's? Why do I have to have a credit card balance that I am uncomfortable with simply because the cost of food and gas has skyrocketed? When I saw our balance I asked my husband how on earth we got over 1,000. He said that we had to use the card for groceries a few times then the roof started to leak so we had to fix that and two tires needed replacing. Did you know it is 100.00 for a tire these days!? Why do we have to suffer while the big mulit billion CEO's get a slap on the wrist and a check?

This is the opinion of my Geography 102 teacher: We should just let them die.

My thought is that we're damned if we do something, and damned if we don't do something. It's a no win situation.

I wonder if it will get as bad as it was in the early 80's. I other message board is a parenting site for moms of preschoolers. Some of the moms there have jobs or husbands who have jobs dealing with the economy. They are saying it could be worse then the 80's recession. Not due to the impact but how we are used to our comforts. In the early 80's there was no starbucks selling 5.00 cup of coffee, cell phones, or ready made frozen food on the scale we see today. People had big gardens and canned thier own food. I know my mom did and I still do. People had parents who told them of the great depression and how to conserve food. I remember some of it. There were just no jobs even at McDonalds and intrest rates were around 10%. I pay 5.3% percent intrest on my home now so that would be a huge difference. I guess if it does get that bad we had better get used to not having so many luxuries. It has been 20 or so years since we had a really bad economic meltdown so I wonder if some of the people I talked to are right and it will be much worse.

Here's an idea. Freeze all adjustable mortgage rates. Work with the people who are defaulting on their mortgages to prevent further foreclosures. By preventing further foreclosures, you stabilize the housing market. By stabilizing the housing market, you stabilize the stock market. By stabilizing the stock market, you can allow busted corporations to fail without interfering. By not interfering, you preserve the concept of a free market economy and prevent unnecessary spending. By preventing unnecessary spending, taxes can go down. Allowing taxes to go down will allow people to buy houses, pay off debts, and buy goods. If this happens, our economy starts growing again.

Working from the bottom up will save this country, working from the top down will ruin it.

I have a simple plan for those suffering due to the economy, and the bailout, which most likely will happen no matter how much we don't like it.

Piracy.

I'm not talking about P2P file sharing either.

I mean good ol' pillaging, burning cities to the ground, taking what you need, taking what you can sell, taking people into your crew, leaving the women and children, and killing the rest.

If the 80's and the 90's are making a comeback, how about the 790's?

Woo piracy!

The government has screwed up in handling this crisis. It never had to come to this. Instead of giving everyone 600 bucks in the country they should of put that money into bringing Gas prices down a dollar across the whole nation or bringing mortgage rates down. I'll tell you what Christians right now are preaching the end of the world! they think this is only the beginning and we'll be in Anarchy by the time its all said and done... and only the Anti-christ will be able to fix the global economy, he'll form a global governent, make everyone put microchips in their hands for cash, do away with all other forms of currency, and put Christians in death camps all over the world... By Christians I say my mom. I actually hate going over to visit my parents right now because I gotta hear about how the end is near, blah blah blah. This stuff freaks me out!

The good thing is, it has been worse before. This isn't the great depression yet. I still have confidence the US can take its economy back, and I think it all starts with either McCain or Obama. I prefer not to mention who I'm voting for next election but I think both will do a better job than George W!

Anything I say is going to be massively tainted by my cynicism and general disdain for those responsible, and I really don't have the facts to back up my hatred.

So instead I will say this:

Senor Hugo wrote:Woo piracy!

YEAH PIRACY!

Tekka wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Woo piracy!

YEAH PIRACY!

ARRRRRRRR!!!!

Cormaster628 wrote:Christians right now are preaching the end of the world! they think this is only the beginning and we'll be in Anarchy by the time its all said and done... and only the Anti-christ will be able to fix the global economy, he'll form a global governent, make everyone put microchips in their hands for cash, do away with all other forms of currency, and put Christians in death camps all over the world... By Christians I say my mom. I actually hate going over to visit my parents right now because I gotta hear about how the end is near, blah blah blah. This stuff freaks me out!

The good thing is, it has been worse before. This isn't the great depression yet. I still have confidence the US can take its economy back, and I think it all starts with either McCain or Obama. I prefer not to mention who I'm voting for next election but I think both will do a better job than George W!

I am a christian who goes to church every sunday and probally makes a few people do the I can also tell you I do not think anything like that nor do I know anyone who thinks like that. Every I know from my church thinks it is a bunch of greed that got us into this mess and the government is just going to mess it up even more.

It has to be done.

Seriously.

As much as I'd like to see the greed punished, the lending institutions need to have confidence and capital to back up their practices.

A "Just Deserts" policy of punishment will only hurt the average person even more.

Halo wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Woo piracy!

YEAH PIRACY!

ARRRRRRRR!!!!

Do what you want cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate

Missourisnowflakes wrote:

Cormaster628 wrote:Christians right now are preaching the end of the world! they think this is only the beginning and we'll be in Anarchy by the time its all said and done... and only the Anti-christ will be able to fix the global economy, he'll form a global governent, make everyone put microchips in their hands for cash, do away with all other forms of currency, and put Christians in death camps all over the world... By Christians I say my mom. I actually hate going over to visit my parents right now because I gotta hear about how the end is near, blah blah blah. This stuff freaks me out!

The good thing is, it has been worse before. This isn't the great depression yet. I still have confidence the US can take its economy back, and I think it all starts with either McCain or Obama. I prefer not to mention who I'm voting for next election but I think both will do a better job than George W!

I am a christian who goes to church every sunday and probally makes a few people do the I can also tell you I do not think anything like that nor do I know anyone who thinks like that. Every I know from my church thinks it is a bunch of greed that got us into this mess and the government is just going to mess it up even more.

Yeah I'm a Christian too, not the most committed but my mom can be one of the biggest hypocrites ever. Sometimes she can be really cool, other times she goes into total "nun mode". I have given up trying to argue my points with her. As far as she's concerned the world is coming to an end, Jesus is about to come back, and the Government and scientists are just trying to make excues and deny the inevitable. It got so bad that my Wife said she didn't want to go over there anymore because my mom's preaching was giving her anxiety attacks.

Needless to say I'm not neccisarily saying the end is near, but I'm starting to wonder if we are getting ourselves into a hole we can't climbe out of. It started with Gas spiraling out of control, then the housing market collapsed, Now banks, American automobile companies, and even big retaliers like Wal-mart are struggling. hell even McDonalds is struggling! The one near me was supposed to close for 3 months to do a total renovation and they canceled the renovation to "cut costs". I don't know if the end, but I'm thinking the government needs to start doing things the right way, or we are going to be entering a second great depression.

I'm a bit mixed on the bailout really. I think yes something needs to be done, but I also think these companies are getting what they deserved. However if all these companies file bankruptcy, unemployment will spin out of control... It could cause a chain reaction that takes down the whole economy!

I'm a Christian too, but I don't think it's the end of the world just yet. I don't think that the bank's failing is a good enough reason to hide in a bomb shelter with a lifetime supply a ramen and water. Do I think things are getting bad? Yes. Do I think things were more peaceful years ago? NO. We did'nt have the news to sensationalize stuff as much years ago, but with enough research you'll find that the same crap happening today happened in the past on a fairly wide scale.

On one hand, these companies are getting what they deserved. They tried to get people to move their investments from stock to real estate through the use of bad loans and it backfired horribly. The guys who made the decisions need to be punished and if that means they get to live in a card board box then so be it. The problem is that if the American people do not bailout the banks, we'll be looking at a depression on a world-wide scale. The bailout needs to happen. I'm usually in favor of less government interaction, but this is one of those occasions where the govt. needs to step in and fix the problem.

I read an article though that it would only take about $240 billion to actually get everything neutral again. I think that the bailout should only be about $3-400 billion which will be just enough to get the market stabalized and get it rolling again. $700 billion is a little too much if you ask me, but that may be a number the analysts are more comfortable using as the excess money will give them more work room in case anything goes sour.

The US also needs to start drilling for our own oil. I'm more than sure we won't be hurting the Alaskan wasteland. I've seen pics of the proposed drilling areas and there are no signs of life for miles around. No creatures will be hurt so the frikkin conservationists need to stop whining.

robofreak wrote:I read an article though that it would only take about $240 billion to actually get everything neutral again. I think that the bailout should only be about $3-400 billion which will be just enough to get the market stabalized and get it rolling again. $700 billion is a little too much if you ask me, but that may be a number the analysts are more comfortable using as the excess money will give them more work room in case anything goes sour.

The US also needs to start drilling for our own oil. I'm more than sure we won't be hurting the Alaskan wasteland. I've seen pics of the proposed drilling areas and there are no signs of life for miles around. No creatures will be hurt so the frikkin conservationists need to stop whining.

I have read articles that say this payout by the government will be just enough to keep the total economy from crashing starting a chain reaction that will make the great depression look like a tea party. In reality even with the proposed bail out things will be very tight for 7-10 years.

I have seen the pictures of anwar too. I think we should drill our own oil as well but I do not think it will ever happen. The people who make those decisions get too much money from the people who do not want us to drill.

Counterpunch wrote:A "Just Deserts" policy of punishment will only hurt the average person even more.

Although is that a bad thing?

Like the parent who lets the kid touch a hot oven so they understand that it's hot.

Wouldn't a 'just deserts' thing show that we as Americans can't keep living the way we are, we need to straighten up.

Bailing out the banks, really only gives people a "hey if we screw up and cause a business to fail, not only will we not lose our business but we'll get billions of dollars of money from the government to get us back on track."

If anyone ran any other business like that, they'd be done for. No second, or third chances.

Honestly I think it's a lesson we all can benefit from, even though things will be tough.

I'd don't think you'd be saying that Senor Hugo if the economy really did crash.

It's true that we've been living in a state of excess for a while with lifestyles that seem almost ridiculous in some cases, but it's the lenders who caused the problems by giving out loans to people who could'nt afford them in the first place. It the lenders who need to be punished.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to suffer for the actions of some stupid people. I say it's best to bailout the banks, but also punish those responsible for causing the problem.

No, I still would. I don't have a tendency to say things I don't mean.

Sure it will suck, it will be a pain in the ass.

But what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

Plus it's a circle of stupid moves.

Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person gets loan.
Bank expects payment.
Person cannot pay.
Bank takes away stuff.
Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person receives the loan....

Senor Hugo wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:A "Just Deserts" policy of punishment will only hurt the average person even more.

Although is that a bad thing?

Like the parent who lets the kid touch a hot oven so they understand that it's hot.

Wouldn't a 'just deserts' thing show that we as Americans can't keep living the way we are, we need to straighten up.

Yeah, it's all fair and good for you to think that, but your financial markets crashing don't just effect you Americans. It affects us in the rest of the world too. It effects everyone.

Senor Hugo wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:A "Just Deserts" policy of punishment will only hurt the average person even more.

Although is that a bad thing?

Like the parent who lets the kid touch a hot oven so they understand that it's hot.

Wouldn't a 'just deserts' thing show that we as Americans can't keep living the way we are, we need to straighten up.

Honestly, before I answer that, I have to know whether or not you are gainfully employed and what you do for a living.

Counterpunch wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:A "Just Deserts" policy of punishment will only hurt the average person even more.

Although is that a bad thing?

Like the parent who lets the kid touch a hot oven so they understand that it's hot.

Wouldn't a 'just deserts' thing show that we as Americans can't keep living the way we are, we need to straighten up.

Honestly, before I answer that, I have to know whether or not you are gainfully employed and what you do for a living.

Currently I'm a student working on my Bachelors degree, and working at a tv station.

Senor Hugo wrote:No, I still would. I don't have a tendency to say things I don't mean.

Sure it will suck, it will be a pain in the ass.

But what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

Plus it's a circle of stupid moves.

Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person gets loan.
Bank expects payment.
Person cannot pay.
Bank takes away stuff.
Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person receives the loan....

I talked to a lender working for a mortage company who explained it like this. A family goes into a bank like WaMu looking to buy a house. The lender just wants his big commission so he tells outright lies to the family saying that the teaser rate will get them into the house for right now. The load will re adjust but your credit will improve so it will not be much higher which was a lie. The intrest rate went much higher and the family can no longer afford their home. So it is strictly the banks that lied to these people that got us into this mess and that is why I cannot believe our government is going to just write them a check. Socialism at its finest.

Missourisnowflakes wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:No, I still would. I don't have a tendency to say things I don't mean.

Sure it will suck, it will be a pain in the ass.

But what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

Plus it's a circle of stupid moves.

Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person gets loan.
Bank expects payment.
Person cannot pay.
Bank takes away stuff.
Person who shouldn't get a loan applies for a loan.
Bank gives them a loan.
Person receives the loan....

I talked to a lender working for a mortage company who explained it like this. A family goes into a bank like WaMu looking to buy a house. The lender just wants his big commission so he tells outright lies to the family saying that the teaser rate will get them into the house for right now. The load will re adjust but your credit will improve so it will not be much higher which was a lie. The intrest rate went much higher and the family can no longer afford their home. So it is strictly the banks that lied to these people that got us into this mess and that is why I cannot believe our government is going to just write them a check. Socialism at its finest.

The #1 rule wen it comes down to making a contract- any contract is- read the small print!
Don't believe everything the guy tells you, take your time and read the contract in detail and maybe ask advise from a friend or someone else if you're not sure on how good the contract is.