Screamfleet wrote:Still both sides saw casualties in fighting. If you're after peace, why throw both sides you care about into a fight?
That's really stupid. Sentinel doesn't seem like he's after peace at all. It seems like he's just after whatever michael bay needed for big action scenes.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Screamfleet wrote:So now I'm dumb and it's not bad writing?
What you think is not what is displayed in the movie. Sentinel is a largely inconsistent character. If you fill in the gaps on your own, of course it's easy to under stand.
Why does Sentinel
-Not take the Matrix
-Hang around with the Autobots
-Kill Ironhide
-Not kill Optimus
-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots
-Go to Chicago
-Have parts of chicago destroyed
-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron
-Have humans senseless killed
-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars
-Stand around in plain sight
The biggest problem with Sentinel is people trying to explain a character as if he has some depth, when he's really just a shallow villain. This guy is bi-polar or something. Really, he is a tool of Michael Bay to accomplish actions scenes. They came up with all the action scenes and such first, and tried to make a story fit it. Sentinel is not a well developed character. If you see more than that it's certainly not in the movie.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Screamfleet wrote:It's funny you ask if I watched the movie, when there's things you didn't pick up on yourself. I don't care what's been "suggested", it should have been in the movie.
Screamfleet wrote:I clearly did watch the movie, but I'm done with you talking down to me and being disrespectful. You don't want to have a civil discussion fine, good day to you.
Please, don't bother trying to explain anything for my benefit. I know you're not, you're doing it for yourself. Why even bother explaining things to me if you're not going to respect me?
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Screamfleet wrote:Still both sides saw casualties in fighting. If you're after peace, why throw both sides you care about into a fight?
That's really stupid. Sentinel doesn't seem like he's after peace at all. It seems like he's just after whatever michael bay needed for big action scenes.
Lastjustice wrote:Ok I think people are missing the subtext of thnigs here, let me help out.
Why does Sentinel
-Not take the Matrix
* He felt Prime was the leader of the autobots, and rejected it out of guilt for what he was about to do. He cared about Optimus, as he wanted to win Optimus over to his side.Optimus stood for everything he used, and if could turn him, then everything was justified in his head. Which could also unite the factions under him if Optimus did that ending the war.
-Hang around with the Autobots
* All part of the plan. He needed Optimus, and to gather knowledge of the locals briefly. Whom better to learn from and spy on than those welcome. Prime revived him, so wasn't like, hey thanks for rez...I'm now going to bad guys. He'd been shot in the following heartbeat. They were all still under the belief Sentinel was good guy, and gave him the best positioning to turn at his leisure.
-Kill Ironhide
* He was the biggest threat of all the autobots there. I mean look how badly he crushed the dreads. In a straight up fight, Ironhide probably would have lost still, but likely would have badly damaged Sentinel. So he used cosmic rust on poor old Ironhide. It was 86 over all again as he got cheap shotted.
-Not kill Optimus
* It wasn't just a war of factions, but beliefs. Sentinel figured if he could rebuild cybertron and get their race back on it's feet then Optimus would eventually see things his way. Why he spared him in DC(which both of them were holding back in the scuffle. Prime was just trying detain him.), and forced them to leave. (whether he asked Starscream to blow up the autobots ship or not is another story. That easily could have been Megatron or Screamers call.) At the end Sentinel having revealed his plans, and was shocked that even with Cybertron right there in front of his eyes...Optimus still wasn't going quit. I bring you Cybertron Optimus, and you still side with the humans. (more or less.) Sentinel wanted Optimus at his side, and to have his approval in this.
Optimus was a true beleiver in everything he learned while Sentinel was alot like Dylan. They'll try do right thing when it's convient, but when push came to shove was out to save their own skin and willing toss their morales aside if doing the right thing isn't in their best interests. Both were willing to side with the Decepticons, despite collectively making a choice that was bad for their race.
Dylan was a mirror being held up showing humans were just as capable of being monsterous was the Decepticons while Optimus was a mirror being held up showing Cybertronians can strive to for the greater good no matter even when it is to just simpler to take the easy way out.
-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots
* Might not have been his plan.
-Go to Chicago
* Likely was a central location on the world near by could be easily defended.(anything on the coast line could easily be bombed to pieces by carriers and battleships like in revenge of the fallen. There's none of those on the great lakes, and would take alot of time to get them there.) The control pillar probably needed be in the middle of the batch and on a tall enough structure to broadcast it's signal more effectively, like we do with our cell or radio towers.
If you remember the episode city of steel, Megatron does something simliar to NY. All tall buildings would likely be plenty of materials to convert into a strong hold.
-Have parts of chicago destroyed
* to lay down the law to humans in the area while he set up shop. With the majority of the populations dead, and the roads and trains blocked off it would be hard to get more humans into the city.
-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron
*There's 7 billion of us. I' d imagine we outnumber the cybertronians, making his needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few backwards heh. We're smaller and fragile enough to push around but strong plentiful enough to do an amazing job if put to the task.
Honestly if asked Humanity probably would have done the job in exchange for new technology. Some deal could have been reached if Sentinel had pulled his head out of his exhaustport. But them puttign a gun to our heads, and saying it's our way or the highway after reducing our planet to a stripped down husk we'd never gone along with it. It would have to be a mutual gain.
-Have humans senseless killed
* The initial set up process was critical to his operates. He had to lockdown the area he was going use for his base. Killing a few potential slaves sent the message of what happens to those who would fight back.
-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars
* He needed the rest of the pillars to be spread across the world for it to work. He says so during the film. They likely needed to be spread out enough across the planet to give the proper spacing for it to warp in all the surface area of cybertron.
-Stand around in plain sight
* He was guarding the tower where the control pillar was, the key to his plans. He was controlling the space bridge. He likely needed it to be an open location to broad cast it's signal. He was in the center of the city, and had air cover all over it. He was as protected as he was going get till he created a new stronghold.
Hope this helps hehe.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?
5150 Cruiser wrote:Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?
Now that i will acknowlege to bad writing. I can understand if he didn't realise that he was dead right away, but at minimuim towards the end, he should have been acknowledged. I would have even accepted having what was left of him on a trailer being towed by Optimus or even Ratchet as they were being escorted back to their ship. (Though i can understand not foing that for spoilers sake. That whole scene was shown last year on youtube. If a half desinigrated Ironhide body was in tow, that pretty much would have given away his death)
Ironhide was an iconic Character in the movieverse, and there is no excuse not to acknowledgment to his death at the end.
Edit: Was his death at laest aknowledged in the book?
ROARBO wrote:5150 Cruiser: where is the video
Starscream GaGa wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote:Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?
Now that i will acknowlege to bad writing. I can understand if he didn't realise that he was dead right away, but at minimuim towards the end, he should have been acknowledged. I would have even accepted having what was left of him on a trailer being towed by Optimus or even Ratchet as they were being escorted back to their ship. (Though i can understand not foing that for spoilers sake. That whole scene was shown last year on youtube. If a half desinigrated Ironhide body was in tow, that pretty much would have given away his death)
Ironhide was an iconic Character in the movieverse, and there is no excuse not to acknowledgment to his death at the end.
Edit: Was his death at laest aknowledged in the book?
No, it wasn't really, but there was a lot of emphasis on how much it put Sam in shock.
I think there was a significant time-skip between Sentinel stealing the pillars and starting up the bridge. I assume Optimus reacted to his friend's death during that period.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
ROARBO wrote:the scene you said was on utube
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
ROARBO wrote:didnt see him
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
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