The Energon Pub

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:00 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
I believe this to be partly true. To a point i do believe that the fan base has dug its own hole. bay and co. did listen to complaints about the first movie and built them into the second...

Considering the Transformers fanbase is one of the most conservative, self hating, easily angered and spiteful fanbases of any form of media ever I'd say Bay is better off ignoring them. Don't get me wrong this isn't a mean spirited stab at Transformers fans. Remember: I am one too. I'd be lieing through my teeth if I said the concept of Beast Wars was something I accepted with open arms (hell I didn't watch it until years later because of the concept).

Hell yeah, that sounds alot like me! :twisted:

by **shamone** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:45 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
No, it doesn't boil down to opinions.
ROTF was a bad movie, period.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It is a bad movie to you but your opinion is not fact, period.

or people can freely express their opinions, and contrdict themselves or make shams of themselves because they are free to do it.

Discourse and debate is what makes life interesting, not oh well i think this, you think that so lets not say anything

Discourse and debate may be what make life interesting, but what you and many of the film's haters try to do is squash the opinions of the other side with opinions presented as fact with statements such as the former. Silencing the other side's voice is not discussion.

Much of this thread has gone like this...

Hater: See, the movie was bad.

Fan: Maybe to you, but I liked it.

Hater: No, it's BAD! Here's why it's bad! Nobody thought it was good!

Fan: Alot of people did actually, see? Here's why.

Hater: Those are just opinions! It's bad and you're wrong!

Fan: You just said it's an opinion, so how does that make it any more wrong than your own?

*repeat from the first line*

Why not just find comfort in your own opinion of the film rather than attack those who like it when they state such, or discuss your differing opinion civily? 99% of my posts in this thread have been to counter such attacks, not try to drill my opinions down your throat. The other 1% was just what I thought of the film. I think it's ridiculous that those who liked it are forced to defend themselves rather than take part in any civil discussion.

well i think its quite dishonest to use quotes from others to knock my belief that people should be allowed to express their opinions.

In fact i cant see any where i was contradictory or less than civil to anyone

by **shamone** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:47 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote: Considering the Transformers fanbase is one of the most conservative, self hating, easily angered and spiteful fanbases of any form of media ever I'd say Bay is better off ignoring them. Don't get me wrong this isn't a mean spirited stab at Transformers fans. Remember: I am one too. I'd be lieing through my teeth if I said the concept of Beast Wars was something I accepted with open arms (hell I didn't watch it until years later because of the concept).

I'd agree with this 100%. I've said it multiple times, but in a way, i hope the next reboot is done by some like Uwe Boll. Chances are people would be begging for Bay to come back after his hands get in the mix.

someone said tf fanbase are self haters and conservative

this sums it up perfectly for me

1. a tacit admission that bay movies arent great, but be relieved that they could be worse

2. wishing that if rebooted that they are worse than the current movies.

Surely we should look for the best possible movies to be made, not the least worse. Its not a lofty wish to say lets improve the movies is it

by **Capt.Failure** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:40 pm

shamone wrote:well i think its quite dishonest to use quotes from others to knock my belief that people should be allowed to express their opinions.

In fact i cant see any where i was contradictory or less than civil to anyone

Except those who liked the film are the ones who need to defend their right to opinion. Well over three quarters of the negativity on these forums about RotF is not about how people hated the film, but how the people who did like it are in the wrong for doing so.

This has nothing to do with you personally shamone. It has everything to do with people from one side representing their opinions as fact, and the other side being "wrong" somehow.

by **OptiMagnus** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:55 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
shamone wrote:well i think its quite dishonest to use quotes from others to knock my belief that people should be allowed to express their opinions.

In fact i cant see any where i was contradictory or less than civil to anyone

Except those who liked the film are the ones who need to defend their right to opinion. Well over three quarters of the negativity on these forums about RotF is not about how people hated the film, but how the people who did like it are in the wrong for doing so.

This has nothing to do with you personally shamone. It has everything to do with people from one side representing their opinions as fact, and the other side being "wrong" somehow.

THIS!
I really hate seeing fans bicker over whose opinion is "wrong" and whose is "right" (which I try to avoid starting arguments on nowadays). Heck, if I started a thread as a test that was titled "I think ROTF is a good movie", with a description that said "let's see how many people yell at this just by the title" people would go buzzerk and skip the description because of the "enraging" title...and the same thing would happen if the title read "I think ROTF is a bad movie". And even more I hate seeing people state their opinions as fact. I try to refrain from that as much as possible...even when I'm praising a new figure I got or talking of the negative aspects of one.
P.S. I enjoy reading your thoughts on these matters Capt. I think you've contributed well to this forum.

by **Capt.Failure** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:38 am

shamone wrote:someone said tf fanbase are self haters and conservative

this sums it up perfectly for me

1. a tacit admission that bay movies arent great, but be relieved that they could be worse

2. wishing that if rebooted that they are worse than the current movies.

Surely we should look for the best possible movies to be made, not the least worse. Its not a lofty wish to say lets improve the movies is it

I'm pretty sure what you're refering to was sarcasm, rather than admission to the film's lack of quality.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:THIS!
I really hate seeing fans bicker over whose opinion is "wrong" and whose is "right" (which I try to avoid starting arguments on nowadays). Heck, if I started a thread as a test that was titled "I think ROTF is a good movie", with a description that said "let's see how many people yell at this just by the title" people would go buzzerk and skip the description because of the "enraging" title...and the same thing would happen if the title read "I think ROTF is a bad movie". And even more I hate seeing people state their opinions as fact. I try to refrain from that as much as possible...even when I'm praising a new figure I got or talking of the negative aspects of one.
P.S. I enjoy reading your thoughts on these matters Capt. I think you've contributed well to this forum.

Yeah, even though I'm vocal about reminding people that opinions do not equal facts (even my own), having to bring it up every time RotF get's mentioned is getting tiresome. However one of my pet peeves is bullshit, so I'm obliged to cut through it like Optimus Prime through a Decepticon mook.

Also, thanks for the compliment.

News Credits: 5 · by **5150 Cruiser** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:14 pm

shamone wrote:someone said tf fanbase are self haters and conservative

this sums it up perfectly for me

1. a tacit admission that bay movies aren't great, but be relieved that they could be worse2. wishing that if rebooted that they are worse than the current movies.

Surely we should look for the best possible movies to be made, not the least worse. Its not a lofty wish to say lets improve the movies is it

I guess i didn't do a good job on convening sarcasm.

Look, i don't really want the next batch of movies to be worse. I seriously doubt anyone truly wants that. My point with the Uwe Boll comment is exactly what i highlighted in your post. Are the current movies great? To some yes. Are they perfect? No. No movie is. Could they be worse? Absofreaknltly. But as someone who enjoyed both movies i do resonise that they could be better. Bay himself seems to resonise this as well, but people just want to wash what he says under the table without giving him a chance to prove it.

Many of the movie haters have this notion in the mind that Bay is the devil and that the director, any director for that matter, that comes in after him will undoubtedly do far better. So my point is that while many may have disliked these movies for whatever reason, a new director does not mean instant success. While yes, it is possible that they might be better than the current offering, you also need to accept the fact that they may end up being alot worse.

Its like the old saying goes...

"you don't know what you've got..till its gone."

P.S.- It also still baffles me how the people who dislike/hate the movies, (and i mean i have yet to see this), never hold Hasbro responsible for any portion or these movies

by **Capt.Failure** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:29 pm

5105 Cruiser wrote:P.S.- It also still baffles me how the people who dislike/hate the movies, (and i mean i have yet to see this), never hold Hasbro responsible for any portion or these movies

Same reason when things go bad in America we blame the President and not the many levels of government beneath him. It's easier to blame one guy than take a step back and observe the many persons, groups, actions, decisions, and screw ups that caused the problem in the first place.

News Credits: 1 · by **Elita One** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:36 am

Ya think Michael? :p Would have been better with the part with Ron and Julie at the college cut out imo.Wow she was stoned I didn't laugh at that. There are other movies out there I can watch with funny stoner types their names are Jay and Silent Bob. ;)^

by **syphonn** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:49 pm

Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

by **Evil_the_Nub** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:04 pm

syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

by **OptiMagnus** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:29 pm

Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Hey I just got the best idea...
let's make a new forum all about how bad the movie universe is!

by **Red 50** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:35 pm

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Hey I just got the best idea...
let's make a new forum all about how bad the movie universe is!

Um, I think that this is already spread into multiple topics here, so what would be the point?
In almost every topic something bad is found about the Bayverse.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:37 pm

Red 50 wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Hey I just got the best idea...
let's make a new forum all about how bad the movie universe is!

Um, I think that this is already spread into multiple topics here, so what would be the point?
In almost every topic something bad is found about the Bayverse.

Smilies. Understand them.

by **OptiMagnus** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:10 pm

Burn wrote:
Red 50 wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Hey I just got the best idea...
let's make a new forum all about how bad the movie universe is!

Um, I think that this is already spread into multiple topics here, so what would be the point?
In almost every topic something bad is found about the Bayverse.

Smilies. Understand them.

Yay! Burn actually got that I was joking!

by **Capt.Failure** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 pm

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Yay! Burn actually got that I was joking!

Well if we did make a forum dedicated to movie hate maybe we'd be able to say we like the movies without being ostrasized by internet society on these forums.

by **OptiMagnus** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:06 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:Yay! Burn actually got that I was joking!

Well if we did make a forum dedicated to movie hate maybe we'd be able to say we like the movies without being ostrasized by internet society on these forums.

Yes, but at the same time, you become a potential target whenever you say this.
You see, there are still movie fans that invalidate the opinions of the movie haters, which causes many online wars (I used to be one of those). Each side is equally at fault.
But really, I can't say "I thought Revenge of the Fallen was awesome!" without getting mauled. It's such a silly argument. I'm afraid the DOTM Laserbeak thread is going to turn into a war soon because someone made a "Michael Bay's stupid fault and DOTM is going to be bad" comment. Can't we all just get along? They're Transformers people.

By the way everyone, I loved Revenge of the Fallen! I think it's one of the best movies ever made!
(OptiMagnus10 is not responsible for any negative reactions to the above statement. It is not intended to be flame bait nor is it intended to be another annoying restatement of his opinion on the film. It is for light-hearted humour purposes only. However, OptiMagnus10 reserves the right to continue enjoying Revenge of the Fallen (and the entire movie universe) and believe it is one of the best films ever made.)

by **Capt.Failure** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:11 pm

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:Yay! Burn actually got that I was joking!

Well if we did make a forum dedicated to movie hate maybe we'd be able to say we like the movies without being ostrasized by internet society on these forums.

Yes, but at the same time, you become a potential target whenever you say this.
You see, there are still movie fans that invalidate the opinions of the movie haters, which causes many online wars (I used to be one of those). Each side is equally at fault.
But really, I can't say "I thought Revenge of the Fallen was awesome!" without getting mauled. It's such a silly argument. I'm afraid the DOTM Laserbeak thread is going to turn into a war soon because someone made a "Michael Bay's stupid fault and DOTM is going to be bad" comment. Can't we all just get along? They're Transformers people.

By the way everyone, I loved Revenge of the Fallen! I think it's one of the best movies ever made!
(OptiMagnus10 is not responsible for any negative reactions to the above statement. It is not intended to be flame bait nor is it intended to be another annoying restatement of his opinion on the film. It is for light-hearted humour purposes only. However, OptiMagnus10 reserves the right to continue enjoying Revenge of the Fallen (and the entire movie universe) and believe it is one of the best films ever made.)

Honestly, everyone and anyone on these forums should read this link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Not just those who hate the films, but those who like it. Read the entries on that page and think about how it pertains to you. I'm fully aware that I fall slightly under White Knight and Willfully Blind, but with the understanding that it's just what I think, and hardly fact.

See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nionMyopia

by **G1 Smoketreader** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:59 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:Yay! Burn actually got that I was joking!

Well if we did make a forum dedicated to movie hate maybe we'd be able to say we like the movies without being ostrasized by internet society on these forums.

Yes, but at the same time, you become a potential target whenever you say this.
You see, there are still movie fans that invalidate the opinions of the movie haters, which causes many online wars (I used to be one of those). Each side is equally at fault.
But really, I can't say "I thought Revenge of the Fallen was awesome!" without getting mauled. It's such a silly argument. I'm afraid the DOTM Laserbeak thread is going to turn into a war soon because someone made a "Michael Bay's stupid fault and DOTM is going to be bad" comment. Can't we all just get along? They're Transformers people.

By the way everyone, I loved Revenge of the Fallen! I think it's one of the best movies ever made!
(OptiMagnus10 is not responsible for any negative reactions to the above statement. It is not intended to be flame bait nor is it intended to be another annoying restatement of his opinion on the film. It is for light-hearted humour purposes only. However, OptiMagnus10 reserves the right to continue enjoying Revenge of the Fallen (and the entire movie universe) and believe it is one of the best films ever made.)

Honestly, everyone and anyone on these forums should read this link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Not just those who hate the films, but those who like it. Read the entries on that page and think about how it pertains to you. I'm fully aware that I fall slightly under White Knight and Willfully Blind, but with the understanding that it's just what I think, and hardly fact.

See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nionMyopia

Heheh. The first one's funny. The 2nd wouldn't open.I'll try again 2mrw.
I'm just gonna be my own category,tho: The guy who likes what he likes, hates what he hates, and assumes everyone is friendly to Transformers and Transformers fans until they prove othrwise.

by **OptiMagnus** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:11 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:Honestly, everyone and anyone on these forums should read this link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Not just those who hate the films, but those who like it. Read the entries on that page and think about how it pertains to you. I'm fully aware that I fall slightly under White Knight and Willfully Blind, but with the understanding that it's just what I think, and hardly fact.

Dude, that is an awesome page! It describes our fandom fan dumb perfectly. I think I'm a White Knight/Willfully Blind mostly.
Old Timers...check
Purists...check
Protectionists...check
King Customers...check
Willfully Blind...check
Elitists...check
Highbrows...check
Strawstuffers...check
Perfectionists...check
Chicken Littles...check
Litter-Bearers...check
Unpleasable Fan...check check check

by **Dagon** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:48 pm

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Well,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I got my mind reading powers when I found a dying alien named Abin Sur who spilled chemicals on this spider that bit me, giving me the power to read minds and an adamantium-re-enforced skeleton.

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:53 pm

Dagon wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Well,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I got my mind reading powers when I found a dying alien named Abin Sur who spilled chemicals on this spider that bit me, giving me the power to read minds and an adamantium-re-enforced skeleton.

Really!? Holy crap! Where and when did this happen!?

by **Capt.Failure** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:51 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:
Dagon wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Well,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I got my mind reading powers when I found a dying alien named Abin Sur who spilled chemicals on this spider that bit me, giving me the power to read minds and an adamantium-re-enforced skeleton.

Really!? Holy crap! Where and when did this happen!?

I tried being bitten by a chemical soaked radioactive alien spider and all I got was necrosis in my gaming thumb. :sad:

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:57 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
Dagon wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Well,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I got my mind reading powers when I found a dying alien named Abin Sur who spilled chemicals on this spider that bit me, giving me the power to read minds and an adamantium-re-enforced skeleton.

Really!? Holy crap! Where and when did this happen!?

I tried being bitten by a chemical soaked radioactive alien spider and all I got was necrosis in my gaming thumb.

Where was it?

by **Dagon** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:11 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
Dagon wrote:
OptiMagnus10 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
syphonn wrote:
Megatron Wolf wrote:... No i know whats going on, this is all a ploy to make people think hes seen the error in his ways to try and make people think DOTM might actually be good but really, he still thinks ROTF was the greatest thing ever ...

My thoughts exactly.

Where did you guys get the ability to read Michael Bay's mind?

Yes, enlighten us all...

Well,
I can't speak for anyone else, but I got my mind reading powers when I found a dying alien named Abin Sur who spilled chemicals on this spider that bit me, giving me the power to read minds and an adamantium-re-enforced skeleton.

Really!? Holy crap! Where and when did this happen!?

I tried being bitten by a chemical soaked radioactive alien spider and all I got was necrosis in my gaming thumb.