The Energon Pub

I'll take that as a warning with a small "w."

From what keeps showing up in quoted replies, it seems like this has turned into a general political grievance thread rather than a discussion of the original topic, but I could have made that point without baiting.

AcademyofDrX wrote:"What about 'black-on-black' crime in Chicago" is a racist right-wing talking point.

yup. No one ever says "white on white" crime or "brown on brown" crime or "yellow on yellow" crime. It's homogenous crime, a general term, that's the only term acceptable, and yeah it makes sense that there would be lots of homogenous crime since that's the default due to most people still living in areas where their skin colour is the norm all across the world. "Black on Black" was just coined outside of homogenous crime to further demonise Black communities and reinforce the narrative that Black people are criminals, leading to all the stereotypes and systemic racism we have today. I sure hope that no one saying it knew of this and that they won't use it again after reading this. Though some may choose to simply cover their hood's eyeholes and keep saying it to propogate the racist connotations.

AcademyofDrX wrote:I'll take that as a warning with a small "w."

nah, not even that.

AcademyofDrX wrote:From what keeps showing up in quoted replies, it seems like this has turned into a general political grievance thread rather than a discussion of the original topic, but I could have made that point without baiting.

It's a little all over the place and they tend to tie it back to BLM.

Burn wrote:

UnderYourCloset wrote:*sits back drinking my tea while remembering Burn a few years ago giving me a warning for political debate on the boards*

You were insulting people because they weren't drinking the Trump kool-aid.

Remember? How you told them they were uneducated? How they were stupid? Simply because they thought differently to you? 'Member that?

Don't try to put a shine on your past behaviour.

Ya burnt!

I was just reading on Facebook that at about the same time the astroturfed protests against the COVID lockdown began, some parties started setting off fireworks in minority communities across the country. The fireworks are supposedly professional grade (which, tbh, I doubt is true), are being set off at ground level where buildings block the view, and are being set off through the night into the morning, since April, and now someone is selling them to kids in those same neighborhoods super cheap. Lots of people seem to think the fireworks are being set off to mess with BLM protesters, but the timeline doesn't support that.

I was wondering if anyone here has seen/heard fireworks going off through the night?

I live in a smaller town, and I've only heard consumer-grade. The Washington Post did a write-up on this, including video of what looks like professional-grade fireworks in NYC. It also references the theory that this is a punitive action against BLM by the NYPD, which I'm skeptical of.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
Personally I think this is pretty tangential to the topic, but that's just my opinion.

As far as I can tell, it's just some bullcrap conspiracy theories and/or fake news. BLM protests is a real Babel Tower of conflicting ideas and is a pretty chaotic group. So if something is "messing around" with the protests, it's the protestors themselves.

Also, be extremely careful in areas where you often hear "fireworks". Those may be in fact gunshots. With how the police have been demonised recently, they are even more weary of taking action. This give free real estate to the hardened criminals who don't give a single crap about any causes.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So if something is "messing around" with the protests, it's the protesters themselves.

Conjecture. There are plenty with a stated interest in ending or discrediting the protests including the police departments up to president. Sure some bad behaviour may be down to protesters where tensions are high but all of it? Frankly that sounds implausible.

High Command wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So if something is "messing around" with the protests, it's the protesters themselves.

Conjecture. There are plenty with a stated interest in ending or discrediting the protests including the police departments up to president. Sure some bad behaviour may be down to protesters where tensions are high but all of it? Frankly that sounds implausible.

I never said "all". But there's enough wrenches in the gearworks so that nothing can be solved effectively. There's even multiple factions fighting among themselves.

Call me cynical but it's how organisation and charities like these work. Find a problem, then work for the solution. The sweet, sweet cash come in. Ultimately the solution can NEVER be found because once it does, the money will stop to come and the power accumulated will disappear. Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.

The worst is all those genuine people who truly want to help, exploited by the crooks. The crooks being mainly those who use the BLM name and message to push their Marxist agenda or as cover to commit crimes. Or even rich people, starved for attention like that Nascar driver who thought a garage door rope with a tiny loop knot was a "noose" loudly cried Wolf. Media and pundits way too happy to sing along.

They ruin it for everyone.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.

Which seems to be the problem at the very heart of the matter with the police having too much power and abusing it most egregiously.

High Command wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.

Which seems to be the problem at the very heart of the matter with the police having too much power and abusing it most egregiously.

Obviously, it's a golden rule that apply to EVERYONE. Even you and me are not immune.

If you have time to read something really interesting, an experiment was done in 1971. Students were divided into "prisoners" and "gards". The experiment had to be cut short because things were getting really crazy. It have shown a disgusting yet fascinating aspect of human nature.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Stanfo ... Experiment

-Kanrabat- wrote:

High Command wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.

Which seems to be the problem at the very heart of the matter with the police having too much power and abusing it most egregiously.

Obviously, it's a golden rule that apply to EVERYONE. Even you and me are not immune.

If you have time to read something really interesting, an experiment was done in 1971. Students were divided into "prisoners" and "gards". The experiment had to be cut short because things were getting really crazy. It have shown a disgusting yet fascinating aspect of human nature.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Stanfo ... Experiment

Zimbardo's work - as much as I loved it - has not aged well. Milgram's work on obedience was a hell of a lot more robust than either Zimbardo's work on role formation or Sherif's research on intergroup conflict.

I can say from my personal experience, in the weeks since the protests started, there has been more and louder fireworks being set off than I've ever experienced in my life (my neighborhood already had a penchant for fireworks, but this is worse than it's ever been), and it's always consistently between like 8 PM and 2:30 AM, like clockwork. Combine that with extremely similar reports from around the country, coupled with many reports of police being contacted and giving excuses as to why they can't deal woth it, often mentioning the protests, and the fact people are documenting being sold high-grade firework by firemen, and the FDNY and some police departments have actually got caught on camera setting off similar fireworks, I definitely think something's up. Probably the police and other authorities trying to essentially gin up an issue and then not respond to try to avert demands for defunding or abolishing the police.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

High Command wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.

Which seems to be the problem at the very heart of the matter with the police having too much power and abusing it most egregiously.

Obviously, it's a golden rule that apply to EVERYONE. Even you and me are not immune.

If you have time to read something really interesting, an experiment was done in 1971. Students were divided into "prisoners" and "gards". The experiment had to be cut short because things were getting really crazy. It have shown a disgusting yet fascinating aspect of human nature.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Stanfo ... Experiment

You do realize that almost no actual psychologist takes that study seriously, right? Due to its myriad methodology failures, such as small sample size, self-selection of subjects due to how they advertised to get people into it, Zimbardo'd direct interference in and guiding the results of the experiment, etc. It's total hogwash that doesn't actually say anything about """human nature""".

Jeddostotle7 wrote: You do realize that almost no actual psychologist takes that study seriously, right? Due to its myriad methodology failures, such as small sample size, self-selection of subjects due to how they advertised to get people into it, Zimbardo'd direct interference in and guiding the results of the experiment, etc. It's total hogwash that doesn't actually say anything about """human nature""".

Some of those criticisms are a bit unfair. If they'd misled participants about what they'd be doing we'd be ragging on the external validity of a scenario in which a person gains authoritarian power randomly and unexpectedly. Likewise, Zimbardo's involvement in the study was foolish and unprofessional, but doesn't really undermine the spirit of the exercise - it's not as if the Nazi officer overseeing a concentration camp would have been super hands-off with it.

The big problem is that none of those debatable issues can be debated because the research can't be meaningfully replicated and extended to test how those issues impacted the outcome.

People of color won't be required to wear masks in an Oregon county

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/orego ... index.html



Wow.

Is this is what you wanted?

-Kanrabat- wrote:

People of color won't be required to wear masks in an Oregon county

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/orego ... index.html



Wow.

Is this is what you wanted?

Who are you addressing with that question?

Rodimus Prime wrote:Who are you addressing with that question?

Everyone who are fighting against racial discrimination.
And I guess no one will dare answer.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Who are you addressing with that question?

Everyone who are fighting against racial discrimination.
And I guess no one will dare answer.

I don't think anyone really wanted that, not as the actual ideal option at least. I absolutely understand why many Black and Brown were afraid to wear masks for fear of increased chance of being racially profiled, but I don't think the response they wanted from the county about it would be for them to be officially exempted from a mask-wearing requirement. I think most of them would prefer the county to actually try to stop police from profiling them. Basically, it's an empty gesture on the county's part, especially because them being technically exempt probably won't really keep the police from profiling or mistreating them.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

People of color won't be required to wear masks in an Oregon county

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/orego ... index.html

Wow.

Is this is what you wanted?

That right there is some a-grade stupidity. Last I checked face masks only covered a small area of the face, leaving a lot of other areas of skin exposed.

So I fail to see how that can cut down on racial profiling.

Burn wrote:So I fail to see how that can cut down on racial profiling.

Me too. It make absolutely no sense. I think the excuse is that "But if a black wear a mask, he'll look like a bandit, hurr duuurrr." When most people wear mask and especially white people who are required to do so, what will a black person look like without a mask?

When virtue signaling go full circle and become a hate signaling, something went wrong. And the irony is that most of the time, this toxic virtue come from elite liberal white people.

This make me remember that a black author have released a book back in 2014:

Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed wrote:Why is it that so many efforts by liberals to lift the black underclass not only fail, but often harm the intended beneficiaries?

In Please Stop Helping Us, Jason L. Riley examines how well-intentioned welfare programs are in fact holding black Americans back. Minimum-wage laws may lift earnings for people who are already employed, but they price a disproportionate number of blacks out of the labor force. Affirmative action in higher education is intended to address past discrimination, but the result is fewer black college graduates than would otherwise exist. And so it goes with everything from soft-on-crime laws, which make black neighborhoods more dangerous, to policies that limit school choice out of a mistaken belief that charter schools and voucher programs harm the traditional public schools that most low-income students attend.

In theory these efforts are intended to help the poor - and poor minorities in particular. In practice they become massive barriers to moving forward.

Please Stop Helping Us lays bare these counterproductive results. People of goodwill want to see more black socioeconomic advancement, but in too many instances the current methods and approaches aren’t working. Acknowledging this is an important first step.

©2014 Jason L. Riley (P)2014 Brilliance Audio, all rights reserved.

Available in audio book and Kindle for cheap. But the physical copies are now collector items.
https://www.amazon.com/Please-Stop-Help ... 265&sr=8-1

Before anyone shout "Right wing propaganda!" this have NOTHING to do with "wings" and tribes. It's about the core problems too many in the black communities are facing. I've seen dozens of videos all featuring black people who lived through this and came with roughly the same conclusions over the years.

Yet nothing get done.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

People of color won't be required to wear masks in an Oregon county

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/orego ... index.html

Wow.

Is this is what you wanted?

That right there is some a-grade stupidity. Last I checked face masks only covered a small area of the face, leaving a lot of other areas of skin exposed.

So I fail to see how that can cut down on racial profiling.

The fear for people of color is that wearing a mask will make them look scarier to white people. Maybe an implicit racial slant in dress codes is not a problem in Australia, but it definitely is here. Any given school dress-code could basically be summarized as 'nothing obscene and nothing too black,' with some going so far as to place really ignorant restrictions on hairstyles. So, there's definitely a slant there, albeit a difficult one to explain to someone on the outside.

And every place I've ever lived has had actual, enforceable legal restrictions on wearing masks and even hoodies, and while those restrictions are not explicitly racially targeted... well, even as a white person I don't have difficulty understanding where concerned black people are coming from here. Even when the police are on good behavior, some private citizens here are very willing to 'take matters into their own hands', even when there's nothing going on that any rational human being would consider objectionable.

Because of that, many people of color in the U.S. have felt it necessary to adopt a range of self-protective behaviors, lest they give anyone even the barest hint of an excuse to harm them. One of those self-protective behaviors is keeping their faces clearly visible at all times. Now they're being told to violate that rule by a government they are afraid of, and which spent forty years between 1932 and 1972 burning down its credibility on minority health matters. It would definitely feel like Lucy telling Charlie Brown to take a run at that football, if Charlie Brown was plausibly concerned with someone shooting him for trying.

Not saying I would support this solution, but I get where it's coming from.

Edit:

Thinking about it, there's also the problem of adding yet another minor infraction that police can harass someone for. I've tried to wear a mask outside faithfully since this started, but it's not like I haven't forgotten to put it on once or twice. If TN had any laws requiring masks, I might have to worry about getting a serious talking to and a ticket from a LEO, but really I probably wouldn't even expect that much. If I were a black person, though, I'd probably be much more anxious about having yet another thing that can potentially draw attention to me.

Edit II:

This is also essentially why black Americans don't typically embrace those second amendment protections we're so proud of. No one wants to end up like Castille.

https://www.thenewsguard.com/news/linco ... 86cc2.html

"We are shocked and appalled at the volume of horrifically racist commentary we have received regarding this policy exception. The vitriol that county leadership, staff and community partners, have been subjected to is unprecedented. All this only a month after George Floyd's death.

"The expressions of racism regarding the exception has created a ripple of fear throughout our communities of color. The very policy meant to protect them, is now making them a target for further discrimination and harassment."

AcademyofDrX wrote:https://www.thenewsguard.com/news/lincoln-county-drops-face-covering-exemption-county-leaders-make-strong-statement/article_87156950-b675-11ea-b8c0-a33d6ef86cc2.html

"We are shocked and appalled at the volume of horrifically racist commentary we have received regarding this policy exception. The vitriol that county leadership, staff and community partners, have been subjected to is unprecedented. All this only a month after George Floyd's death.

"The expressions of racism regarding the exception has created a ripple of fear throughout our communities of color. The very policy meant to protect them, is now making them a target for further discrimination and harassment."

I appreciate they were trying to protect people of color from profiling by implementing this exception, but maybe they could do that better by, I dunno... defunding or abolishing the police departments that would be doing the profiling?

AcademyofDrX wrote:https://www.thenewsguard.com/news/lincoln-county-drops-face-covering-exemption-county-leaders-make-strong-statement/article_87156950-b675-11ea-b8c0-a33d6ef86cc2.html

"We are shocked and appalled at the volume of horrifically racist commentary we have received regarding this policy exception. The vitriol that county leadership, staff and community partners, have been subjected to is unprecedented. All this only a month after George Floyd's death.

"The expressions of racism regarding the exception has created a ripple of fear throughout our communities of color. The very policy meant to protect them, is now making them a target for further discrimination and harassment."

I'm smashing that X button to doubt very hard. It come from the same kind of people who think any kind of criticism is "racist", "sexist", "homophobic", and "etchetera-ist-obic". Did they got genuine hate mail? for sure, yes. But I bet most of the comments they got were in the line of "WTF were you thinking?" coming from people of any races and genders. They just lump all of this into the same "hate bin".

Why do you think none of those comments were made public and none were even mentioned as an example? Same reason why so many news outlets have removed their comment sections. Do dissent is allowed. No counter-argument allowed. Shut up and OBEY. Or you're a despicable and blasphemous "ist".

Dr. Caelus wrote: Zimbardo's work - as much as I loved it - has not aged well. Milgram's work on obedience was a hell of a lot more robust than either Zimbardo's work on role formation or Sherif's research on intergroup conflict.

I immediately thought of Milgram as well. You beat me to it.
Link to his most famous experiment, For anyone interested,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
While the Stanford prison experiment has been widely criticized for..Well, Pretty much everything, And also never really successfully replicated, The Milgram experiment has been widely recreated with fairly consistent results. Very interesting (and rather disturbing, Really).