The Energon Pub

Nickolai wrote:

Rat Convoy wrote:

Nickolai wrote:Here's a good idea - get to 4 stat upgrades, then don't upgrade until you have 3 or so more. Being a 0 with 2 spd 2 avd, the bonus exp you'll get from hitting 1s is better imho than the marginal increase you'd get from going 3 avd (5%) or 3 spd.

You don't get any more XP for hitting a level 1 as a level 0 than you do if you're a level 1 also. Level 1s are worth the same XP to everyone that hits them.

As the game stands now, there's no point in not buying upgrades as soon as you can afford them. The appeal to saving up for multiple upgrades at a time before was you could continue to enter lower level missions and beat on lower level opponents, rather than getting roughed up by higher level opponents in the higher level missions. With the reset and the fact that all missions are 0-3, that's now totally moot.

I thought that there was a bonus for hitting someone at a higher level, even a 0 hitting a 1? Wasn't it that way pre-reset?

Yes there is (100xp for a kill, multiplied by 2 for level 1, 4 for level 2, 8 for 3 and so forth) and yes it was, but some people would stay at lower level and set up their stats to completely dominate anyone in their level bracket. You have 14 upgrades at level 1 before going to level 2. That's a 10 stat and a 4 stat, which puts the cost of your guy at around 1 million XP if memory serves. A 4 in speed will get ya pretty even with anyone at that level, and then you can go 10 in strength and pretty much kill anything in a few shots without a weapon. Or atleast you could.

People did this so much that in order to compensate, people would hang around at lower levels for longer and longer until they could afford enough upgrades to compete with the people doing that. And while they were sitting on that XP, they'd usually reset and optimise their config to use as much of the XP as they could and keep themselves at a lower level, making it harder for people at that level to gain XP in a fight with them. Get a team full of people with 14 of the cheapest available upgrades against a team full of people with 5 or 6, and the 14 upgrades will win 75% of the time (there are hiccups in the RNG after all). Now, change those 14 upgrades to optimised for bullying/dominating/whatever you wanted to call it, and you basically have someone who will win every time, and enough of them make life very very hard for newer characters who don't have the XP to compete. This isn't something that's really been fixed. We've never hard a XP cap in place. Before the reset, you had to save XP up to 20k to go from level 0-1, and I think it was 100k to go from level 1 up to level 2, just so you could compete.

The reason Ratboi there says it's not really a issue anymore is because everyone's around the same level, and there for there's nothing holding anyone back from leveling as soon as you can.

Hopefully, by the time we start getting level 2s in here though, the missions will be changed so that the missions wont be 0-3, since 0's and 1's have no chance against a 3.

Absolute Zero wrote:

OTAGO wrote:is it not better for the damages to be ambiguous.....at a role paly point of view.

How so? Any RPG I've seen tells you the damage, and in table tops, you still get to play out the attacks then roll damage on hits. Same thing.

While I see the appeal, I think we'd have more people who "RPed" the characters if we could see the numerical damage values, because then we could compare the weapons more effeciently, and maybe their hit percentages too, since I assume they have them. Or little images of the weapons, like we have for the alt modes. That'd be sick.

i was thinking on the lines of if no one really knew whats best....maybe they'd just pick what sounds cool or suits the particular character.....instead of the whole everyone only using the few "effective" weapons

Absolute Zero wrote:
Yes there is (100xp for a kill, multiplied by 2 for level 1, 4 for level 2, 8 for 3 and so forth) and yes it was, but some people would stay at lower level and set up their stats to completely dominate anyone in their level bracket. You have 14 upgrades at level 1 before going to level 2. That's a 10 stat and a 4 stat, which puts the cost of your guy at around 1 million XP if memory serves. A 4 in speed will get ya pretty even with anyone at that level, and then you can go 10 in strength and pretty much kill anything in a few shots without a weapon. Or atleast you could.

People did this so much that in order to compensate, people would hang around at lower levels for longer and longer until they could afford enough upgrades to compete with the people doing that. And while they were sitting on that XP, they'd usually reset and optimise their config to use as much of the XP as they could and keep themselves at a lower level, making it harder for people at that level to gain XP in a fight with them. Get a team full of people with 14 of the cheapest available upgrades against a team full of people with 5 or 6, and the 14 upgrades will win 75% of the time (there are hiccups in the RNG after all). Now, change those 14 upgrades to optimised for bullying/dominating/whatever you wanted to call it, and you basically have someone who will win every time, and enough of them make life very very hard for newer characters who don't have the XP to compete. This isn't something that's really been fixed. We've never hard a XP cap in place. Before the reset, you had to save XP up to 20k to go from level 0-1, and I think it was 100k to go from level 1 up to level 2, just so you could compete.

The reason Ratboi there says it's not really a issue anymore is because everyone's around the same level, and there for there's nothing holding anyone back from leveling as soon as you can.

Hopefully, by the time we start getting level 2s in here though, the missions will be changed so that the missions wont be 0-3, since 0's and 1's have no chance against a 3.

So, in other words, this system was ripe for twinking abuse?

OTAGO wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

OTAGO wrote:is it not better for the damages to be ambiguous.....at a role paly point of view.

How so? Any RPG I've seen tells you the damage, and in table tops, you still get to play out the attacks then roll damage on hits. Same thing.

While I see the appeal, I think we'd have more people who "RPed" the characters if we could see the numerical damage values, because then we could compare the weapons more effeciently, and maybe their hit percentages too, since I assume they have them. Or little images of the weapons, like we have for the alt modes. That'd be sick.

i was thinking on the lines of if no one really knew whats best....maybe they'd just pick what sounds cool or suits the particular character.....instead of the whole everyone only using the few "effective" weapons

Which is exactly what people are doing now. There shouldn't be a few "effective" weapons. Every weapon should have strengths and weaknesses, and it should be the build of the character that determines how really effective that weapon is. Skill is still pretty useless last I heard, but skill -should- be one of the most important stats in the game. Speed and strength are great, but if you don't know how to use them, then you're not going to be a effective fighter.

Nickolai wrote:So, in other words, this system was ripe for twinking abuse?

Honestly, it still is.

Absolute Zero wrote:

OTAGO wrote:

i was thinking on the lines of if no one really knew whats best....maybe they'd just pick what sounds cool or suits the particular character.....instead of the whole everyone only using the few "effective" weapons

Which is exactly what people are doing now. There shouldn't be a few "effective" weapons. Every weapon should have strengths and weaknesses, and it should be the build of the character that determines how really effective that weapon is. Skill is still pretty useless last I heard, but skill -should- be one of the most important stats in the game. Speed and strength are great, but if you don't know how to use them, then you're not going to be a effective fighter.

well, Skill (and FRP too) have the same effect on weapon damage as STR ; a 0/10 with 10 str does the same damage as a 10/10 with 0str. or a 10/0 with 10str though there is an advatage to spreading your stats between the 3 Weapon boosting stats

as to ambiguigity vs knowledge, i thinky just adding a description of how weapons work and what the terms equate to on the weapons page would be a decent compromise.

basic truth; there are no effective weapons. granted NR weapons do have an advantage over SR weapons, but you've got to be pretty much wailing on your enemy with a frenzy to see that advantage, if you are not getting a coloumn of green the advantage of NR is not being made use of.

some weapons have wild damage ranges and some are pretty consistant, but on average as long as both have the same stat requirments and wielded by the same guy they'll do the same damage.

Crashinibon wrote:Unless otherwise planned do you just bolster the next affordable, reasonable stat?

Are you still pinching your points frugaly to spend in grand sweeps at a later point?

When I first began playing HMW, I went with the former (ie. upgrade ASAP). But when some of my characters hit level 2, I realized that I was pretty much only going to be slagged. So I reseted my TFs -- unless it had a retired alt-mode -- and hung around the lower levels until I could get more than a "foot-in-the-door" to the next level (which I was still doing at lvl 4-5 until the crash). Not my style of playing, but that was (is?) the reality.

I plan on trying the first upgrade approach again, but even with some level exp caps... I still can easily see HMW reverting back to the "level bullying" that was going on long before the crash occurred.

Silver Wind wrote:I still can easily see HMW reverting back to the "level bullying" that was going on long before the crash occurred.

I hope not, because right now the only missions we have are the 0-3 ones, if somebody wants to have better xp, that means he'll have to get better stats first.

Chaoslock wrote:

Silver Wind wrote:I still can easily see HMW reverting back to the "level bullying" that was going on long before the crash occurred.

I hope not, because right now the only missions we have are the 0-3 ones, if somebody wants to have better xp, that means he'll have to get better stats first.

Aye, I hope so too.

Chaoslock wrote:

Silver Wind wrote:I still can easily see HMW reverting back to the "level bullying" that was going on long before the crash occurred.

I hope not, because right now the only missions we have are the 0-3 ones, if somebody wants to have better xp, that means he'll have to get better stats first.

It wont be hard. Either save XP or constantly reset to optimize your stats as your XP goes up. 15k gets you a four stat in pretty much anything except some tactics, and keeps you at level 0 for a bit with a advantage. Save up to make that a five stat, and you're at 31k, and you have a good base to pretty much pwn most of the people at level 1.

Absolute Zero wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:

Silver Wind wrote:I still can easily see HMW reverting back to the "level bullying" that was going on long before the crash occurred.

I hope not, because right now the only missions we have are the 0-3 ones, if somebody wants to have better xp, that means he'll have to get better stats first.

It wont be hard. Either save XP or constantly reset to optimize your stats as your XP goes up. 15k gets you a four stat in pretty much anything except some tactics, and keeps you at level 0 for a bit with a advantage. Save up to make that a five stat, and you're at 31k, and you have a good base to pretty much pwn most of the people at level 1.

only for 9K; you hit 40kxp cap and you become level despite only having 4 upgrades

Tammuz wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:I hope not, because right now the only missions we have are the 0-3 ones, if somebody wants to have better xp, that means he'll have to get better stats first.

It wont be hard. Either save XP or constantly reset to optimize your stats as your XP goes up. 15k gets you a four stat in pretty much anything except some tactics, and keeps you at level 0 for a bit with a advantage. Save up to make that a five stat, and you're at 31k, and you have a good base to pretty much pwn most of the people at level 1.

only for 9K; you hit 40kxp cap and you become level despite only having 4 upgrades

There's a level cap finally? I thought those wouldn't be added because of arguements?

I see no reason to hold back on stats like you would have had to do before, becuase there is no one bigger than most of us who will put a beat down on us. In the past, it was prudent at lower levels to save up a bit of xp before leveling up, or to reset when you were near the top of the level to give a more optimal slightly lower down build. It was never prudent to do this past level 5 or six.

Right now though, as long as you build a sencible build, you should just plunge ahead.

most of the level caps are pretty ineffective to be honest and only really kick in if you avoid using tactics

level 0 < 40,000
level 1 < 350,000
level 2 < 750,000
level 3 < 2,000,000
level 4 < 4,500,000
level 5 < 10,000,000
level 6 < 25,000,000

as there are very few top end level ones as yet i don't really see a point in holding back, before it was possible that everyone in the level 1 mission would have 14 upgrades to your 5, that's not really much of a possibilty and it's more than likely they'll be one someone weaker than you in there anyway.

Tammuz wrote:most of the level caps are pretty ineffective to be honest and only really kick in if you avoid using tactics

level 0 < 40,000
level 1 < 350,000
level 2 < 750,000
level 3 < 2,000,000
level 4 < 4,500,000
level 5 < 10,000,000
level 6 < 25,000,000

as there are very few top end level ones as yet i don't really see a point in holding back, before it was possible that everyone in the level 1 mission would have 14 upgrades to your 5, that's not really much of a possibilty and it's more than likely they'll be one someone weaker than you in there anyway.

I see what you mean about it being ineffective. o.O