The Energon Pub

El Duque wrote:Quite a firestorm I started here

Yeah this really turned into something since I last read it.


Well after reading back through all this I have come to my conclusion.

After seeing countless pictures, reviews, and videos the combined form is total garbage. The individual figures I do like and have come to the conclusion that I will display them in there individual bot modes. I'm going to keep my BBTS G2 preorder because really for 60 bucks (thats 12 bucks a bot) thats really not bad for 5 figures and keep it MISB(That G2 design box is killer looking). I'll pick up the retail versions and display them individually.

And as alot a people have said I feel that this attempt at a combiner was a step back not forward than what we already have from has/tak.

Wow, I just read all 8 pages worth of posts and it seems like Bruticus is getting a lot of hatred. Everyone's opinion seems to be valid, so I'm not going to strut into the topic and act like mine is the only right one. Still, my opinion is that this is a pretty good toy. I personally really like the individual bot modes (yes, all of them). My only nitpick is that Onslaught should have been a Voyager, but that's been said so many times it's beating a dead horse at this point.

I also like the combined mode, but the only way I could make Blastoff into a semi decent arm was by using the Junkion Infinity Warfare set. Even then, it's all but impossible to get Vortex, Brawl, or Swindle to look decent with the add-on set...so it's sort of a lost cause in that respect. Still, Blastoff makes for a decent foot while Swindle is an awesome arm.

Is it as good as Fansproject's Colossus? Hell no. Honestly, it's not even close to being on par with Railracer; a combiner who, like FoC Bruticus, was self contained and had weapons that could combine as well. I think the problem came with the scramble city mechanic. Aside from Swindle, all the limbs seem to be jacks of all trades, but masters of none. If Hasbro had ditched the scramble city gimmick, we would have had better dedicated limbs.

Personally, my real gripe is the poor quality of plastic that has been used on this set. Honestly, Fansproject Explorer and Munitioner have sturdier plastic than these guys do. Even in combined mode, the figure is incredibly light. Still, I'm hopeful that he'll eventually receive some type of upgrade kit. Seeing his with the IW hands really shows he has the possibility to be a really great figure instead of only a mediocre one...

The thing that worries me the most is the few times I've heard "fragile connectors."
Needless to say, it worries me, can anyone go into depth with what they mean? Like, fragile because of design, or just because of the plastic (lack of) quality?

El Duque wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Down_Shift wrote:It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Agreed.

Double agreed.

If anything this might be a step backward from the Energon Combiners.

Half-assed.......that's the term I was trying to come up with. Now I'm just throwing this out there, and if I'm totally way off in left field with this, you guys can bust my chops all you want to, but what if the guys at HasTak had the test mold, or whatever it's called, knew it sucked, but was like..........."sell it anyways.....I'm sure a third-party will make an add on kit for it." I mean I'm sure they saw how Superion and Bruticus were doing in sales due to the add on kits, so it would seem kind of logical, right?.....

headsortails wrote:

El Duque wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Down_Shift wrote:It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Agreed.

Double agreed.

If anything this might be a step backward from the Energon Combiners.

Half-assed.......that's the term I was trying to come up with. Now I'm just throwing this out there, and if I'm totally way off in left field with this, you guys can bust my chops all you want to, but what if the guys at HasTak had the test mold, or whatever it's called, knew it sucked, but was like..........."sell it anyways.....I'm sure a third-party will make an add on kit for it." I mean I'm sure they saw how Superion and Bruticus were doing in sales due to the add on kits, so it would seem kind of logical, right?.....

This...kinda makes sense. In short, let them to less work, and make us simply have to pay more to a 3rd party to fix it?
I can see how that works, but at the same time, doing TOO MUCH of that will cause the fanbase to lose trust and as a result, we'll start buying much less from HasTak and much more from third parties.
Might explain why they're milking this mold like they are.

Geez, so much hate for this guy. Glad I decided to stick with the retail versions when / if they ever come out.

Opened mine up tonight, and like most, not impressed. It did actually look kinda impressive in package, but that's about where it ended. Worst part is my package was beat up enough that it wasn't even worth keeping sealed. But if your package is nice, you might want to consider just clipping the tape for the gate so you can see in and call it a day. In hindsight, I probably shoulda just threw it up on eBay for $250, not that I condone such things...it's just that disappointing.

The plastic feels poopy...like a half-assed 3rd Party fig and pretty much all three modes for all of them are compromised...only for what? I mean, if one mode suffered for the benefit of the other, that would be one thing...but all modes pretty much suffer for the sake of nothing. Or I guess for the sake of the scramble city feature and self contained parts. Memo to all 3rd Parties...**** scramble city and self containment (yes, that was the f-word and it was very well deserved so it shouldn't have been censored.) Make THAT be the compromise and give me three impressive modes otherwise...unless you can do it well. Hasbro sure can't.

After owning Hercules I really just can't give Hasbro a pass on this stuff anymore. There is no special thing that TFC did that Hasbro couldn't do because of laws/money/whatever. They just made six really good toys. That's what Hasbro should be able to do, but for whatever reason just can't/won't.

Hasbro has been making some complete crap lately. Bruticus is a mess, I've thought this from the first pics we saw of him. Those connectors look terrible, and now it seems that they don't even work well. The figures are hollow and awkward looking, and at least for me, just not appealing.

They also just produced what I consider to be the worst Transformer ever made in Airachnid, considering the technology of the time. Those things should be thrown in the garbage as they come off of the assembly line.

There is something going on with the current design directions being dictated by Hasbro, and I just don't understand it. It just seems that they are regressing terribly at what they should excel at.

Now if you love this Bruticus more power to you, but I know that they can do better.

Seibertron wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Thing is, we can usually tell if it's better than the pictures tell us, case in point Universe 2.0 Classics Sideswipe.
We also get a better look at them at conventions like toy fair where we can actually see for ourselves that they are better than in the photos, with Bruticus, he was consistently sh*t.

We're in this hobby for so long and have seen so much that we should be able to tell from pictures what to expect.

You missed my point. No pictures would tell us if the connector points are fragile or if the upper legs couldn't support action poses. Those issues have just exacerbated the other issues.

I've been seeing this thing in person since February ... I was one of the first people outside of Hasbro and Takara to get to see this first hand at Toy Fair, and yet I still had hope that it would be better in hand. Like you pointed out, I've been in this hobby for so long that I know generally once I get a toy in my hands that I like it better and I also know that pictures don't tell the full story.

My point is, even if the connectors where good and the plastic quality wasn't crap, it still looks pathetic and not even half assed.
That#s what the pictures have been telling us, that it's a horrible looking mess of a toy.

I thought all pics looked "off". I was worried I would regret not getting this guy - glad to see I won't have any regrets. Still disappointed though. I hope they can get Grimlock right - his pics look good so far...

Well, if there is one positive thing to be said, its that its a combiner, and every bot had all three required modes. a step in the right direction in THAT department.

After reading and taking a few more looks at the figure, I agree that, ultimately, the Scramble City gimmick is what was the main screw up here.

when you get the collosus upgrade for ROTF Bruticus, it negates the scramble city gimmick in favor of one five bot team combiner, and all the bots have places they need to go. You cant make blastoff a foot, and you cant make swindle an arm, and due to the upgrade parts, you cant switch the others around either.

when it's all said and done, I dont really think onslaught's size is the issue here, (After all, those legs can barely hold up 3 deluxes) I think the scramble city gimmick is. Hasbro can make good figures, if they try. And if they cant, then give combiner design back over to takara. Of course they WONT, but thats what seems like the best idea here.

If it werent for scramble poopy, then they could have focused on all of them being bigger, more stable triple changers with all three modes being at least next to accurate. But they didnt.
What puzzles me is, what kid is going to even KNOW about scramble city? I mean, maybe it adds more playability? But personally, as a little kid, i was always just happy with the fact that it was a giant robot. I never really mixed and matched them. that wasnt appealing to me when I was little, I wanted the figure to look how he looked on TV. I never owned any combiners with that scramble function, but if I did, i doubt I would have used it much!

RAcast wrote:

headsortails wrote:
Half-assed.......that's the term I was trying to come up with. Now I'm just throwing this out there, and if I'm totally way off in left field with this, you guys can bust my chops all you want to, but what if the guys at HasTak had the test mold, or whatever it's called, knew it sucked, but was like..........."sell it anyways.....I'm sure a third-party will make an add on kit for it." I mean I'm sure they saw how Superion and Bruticus were doing in sales due to the add on kits, so it would seem kind of logical, right?.....

This...kinda makes sense. In short, let them to less work, and make us simply have to pay more to a 3rd party to fix it?
I can see how that works, but at the same time, doing TOO MUCH of that will cause the fanbase to lose trust and as a result, we'll start buying much less from HasTak and much more from third parties.
Might explain why they're milking this mold like they are.

Isnt it odd that they released the Battle in Space 2 pack with rodimus and cyclonus, right as fansproject releases their protector armor?

They probably added in Scramble City functionality so Ruination could be different from Bruticus.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They probably added in Scramble City functionality so Ruination could be different from Bruticus.

I'm assuming this as well. Which was a nice thought, but it seems like this needed more thought put into it if that was one of their objectives with this set.

Seibertron wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They probably added in Scramble City functionality so Ruination could be different from Bruticus.

I'm assuming this as well. Which was a nice thought, but it seems like this needed more thought put into it if that was one of their objectives with this set.

I dont think that was the objective. I think they realized that you can make a new robot out of this, so why not retool it?

BeastProwl wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They probably added in Scramble City functionality so Ruination could be different from Bruticus.

I'm assuming this as well. Which was a nice thought, but it seems like this needed more thought put into it if that was one of their objectives with this set.

I dont think that was the objective. I think they realized that you can make a new robot out of this, so why not retool it?

... and Ruination is that "new" robot.

BeastProwl wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:They probably added in Scramble City functionality so Ruination could be different from Bruticus.

I'm assuming this as well. Which was a nice thought, but it seems like this needed more thought put into it if that was one of their objectives with this set.

I dont think that was the objective. I think they realized that you can make a new robot out of this, so why not retool it?

Not 'the' objective, 'one' of their objectives.

It's that Blast-Off arm, I could almost live with the stupidity of not making Onslaught a voyager if that one arm didn't look so poopy whatever you try and do with it. Soon as I have another set of the regular releases Blast-off is coming off and staying in bot-mode......forever.

Well, I'm glad I preordered the G2 set, the cheapest of the bunch. See, BBTS won't allow returns once an item's been opened, but Amazon will. Now, I'm not condoning such an action, nor am I saying I will even go that far, but after spending that kind of money, I don't want to get ripped off. Now, I know some of you will say "But there are reviews! There are videos showing how awful he is! Don't want to get burned? Don't buy it!" But here's the problem: People need to have hands on experience with an item to truly know whether or not they want said item.

For example: PRID Airachnid. Most people HATE her toy. I can see why. However, I'm quite satisfied with the figure and don't regret the purchase. Is she perfect? Oh hell no. Quite the opposite, in fact, however, I do like her. Maybe it's because it's a quirky mold? Maybe it's because she's the only Airachnid we have coming? I don't know, and I agree that's not a strong argument for her figure, but I do actually like the figure. I'm not lying when I say this. I transform her frequently. I actually like the transformation and how streamlined she becomes in vehicle mode.

I need to be able to do the same with FOC Bruticus. He might end up being a favorite of mine. He also might end up being a pile of $#!7. (Chances are the latter, but I'm hoping for the former.)

At first, I was appalled by the PRID figures. After seeing First Edition, I was spoiled. However, the PRID only figures (such as Wheeljack, Airachnid, etc.) are good. In fact, if F.E. hadn't existed, we might not be complaining about PRID at all. On the other hand, figures such as Breakdown are deserving of First Edition status. (He's really that good...) Thing is...they look good in both modes (usually), they transform in neat ways (so they're not boring, but not tear inducing either), and they're affordable.

Bruticus, on the other hand, has been expensive so far, and will continue to be so.
SDCC: $100.00
Retail: $75.00 (plus tax!)
G2 Exc.: $65.00 (plus shipping!)
And he's not living up to that price. The individual figures seem to receive some praise, some more than others, but they're still a mixed bag. The transformations SCARE people because tabs can break. (Some already have!) The vehicle modes are just pure asshattery on most. The combined mode is just...(insert ridiculously foul language here) That's a LOT to ask of us, especially when we know HasTak's capable of so much more. So. Much. More.

When FansProject makes two limbs and a bunch of accessories and makes a respectable Bruticus out of the Energon monstrosity that HasTak screwed up on, it should tell you something.

I now own a Maketoys Giant. (Yellow version.) Fantastic set. Amazing build quality, impressive designs (overall and individually), and it LOOKS good. The asking price ($350.00+) is excessive, I agree. Hercules, even more so. ($600.00? P*ss off.) But, they're still blowing HasTak out of the water. HasTak IS capable of making figures on the level of Maketoys and FP and TFC. They are. In fact, after seeing ROTF Optimus (both Leader and Voyager classes) and HFTD Starscream, plus several others in the ROTF line, we KNOW HasTak can make magic happen.

...they're choosing not to. It's not that 3rd party's beating them to the punch. It's not that they're trying to appease kids. It's not that they're worried about laws. It's that they're trying to make money with the least amount of work, and they're taking the path of least resistance to do so. Granted, the economy is CRAP right now and everyone's pinching pennies where and when they can, but HasTak's going about it the wrong way.

Shrinking figures, cutting paint apps, stripping features AND charging MORE? Bad, bad form.
At least with 3rd party, you know they're gonna screw you on their prices, you can see it coming from a mile away. But a duo of companies known for reliable quality (not perfect, but reliable) and fantastical designs screwing you and doing their darnedest to hide it and continue doing it? Bad. Disrespectful to us. Fraudulent.

Changing factories and plastic type? Not going to fix much of anything.
Hiring 3rd party designers? Not going to change anything.
HasTak chooses to go crappy with their works, lately. It's a choice.

...it's a choice.

If we're being fair, Herc had some toy-breaking flaws and I think the same was said of Yellow Giant. Replacement parts are nice and all, but it doesn't really negate the fact that there was some serious flaws on some seriously expencive figures. I'd actually still like some good, fanmake, hip joints for Exgraver to be on the safe side.

That said ... yeah, Hasbro can do better. I have some ideas as to why they can't really. Time being one. How long was Herc teased before he was finally complete? And not counting the upgrade set that JUST came out. 3rd party guys can take for-freakin'-ever! I dout the same can be said for Hasbro.

I think 3rd parties can spend more on R&D too. The comment made that the Energon Combiners had to repeat limbs based on the budget was an eye opener for me. How much less did they have to work with compared to TFC, who had 6 large, weighty figures?

And I think the marketing department may have screwed us over. I think the lack of uniform color schemes on the likes of Devestator has something to do with making the bots "interesting" for kids. The closest we got to the old teams were the Animated Dinobots ... and even those didn't share the exact same color scheme like the G1s did. I blame the marketing department for Bruticus' colors.

I'm talking out of my ass with these points, but I think I'm in the ballpark.

I really hope the weak/brittle connector tabs are fixed by the retail and G2 releases. This thread has convinced me to withhold getting the SDCC version and wait on the TakaraTomy version instead.

Well, I have already agreed with myself on getting all the Fall of Cybertron figures (not necessarily every version), and due to my love of video games and transformers, a combo of both is impossible to pass up for me. I actually like Bruticus from the pictures and reviews I've seen, and the only problem for me are the retail colors and the pointless exclusivity of the game accurate version (wasn't able to get one ). Thankfully blast-off and onslaught aren't all that accurate in color, so I can only hope that TakaraTomy will release a version that is even more game accurate and hopefully it would be in the United line so it's not paintless with crappy stickers and have obtrusive micron ports.

Well, I hate to come out of left field with this, but Hasbro's RoTF Legends Devastator was a damn good combiner. A lot of people seem to forget about that.

WolfDawg wrote:Well, I hate to come out of left field with this, but Hasbro's RoTF Legends Devastator was a damn good combiner. A lot of people seem to forget about that.

Sadly, the elements didn't have individual robot modes.

RAcast wrote:

WolfDawg wrote:Well, I hate to come out of left field with this, but Hasbro's RoTF Legends Devastator was a damn good combiner. A lot of people seem to forget about that.

Sadly, the elements didn't have individual robot modes.

Actually it did. The big supreme lights and sounds one didn't and it was made of 6cons instead of the 7 in the legends class one.

STINGRAY749 wrote:

RAcast wrote:

WolfDawg wrote:Well, I hate to come out of left field with this, but Hasbro's RoTF Legends Devastator was a damn good combiner. A lot of people seem to forget about that.

Sadly, the elements didn't have individual robot modes.

Actually it did. The big supreme lights and sounds one didn't and it was made of 6cons instead of the 7 in the legends class one.

Oh...whoops! Yeah I'm tired, I read Supreme and that was all I saw. xD Yeah, the Legends one is pretty great...I just wish I had all of it, lol. I got a Takara Mixmaster and Long Haul in a lot I bought once, but no others.