The Energon Pub

Absolute Zero wrote:Nature will always find a way to accomplish what it wants.

A common and faulty assumption propagated by Jurassic Park. Aside from the fact that, scientifically, nature isn't an anthropomorphic being with desires, there's the fact that things go extinct - evidence that even evolution has its limits.

Regardless, we're way off topic. If you want to continue this debate I can try to split this thread and move the argument to TF:GD.

Caelus wrote:One exception that did occur to me was Silverbolt - given the size of his wings, and their functionality in both modes, I think they were his sole means of flight.

What about when Silverbolt would hover, then have a wing come up and over his shoulder to reach for a missile? He ought to lose his altitude, but that never happened even though I'm fairly sure the scenrio did.

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:One exception that did occur to me was Silverbolt - given the size of his wings, and their functionality in both modes, I think they were his sole means of flight.

What about when Silverbolt would hover, then have a wing come up and over his shoulder to reach for a missile? He ought to lose his altitude, but that never happened even though I'm fairly sure the scenrio did.

Good point, perhaps he did have Anti-Grav. Although I know on at least one occasion he's earthbound b/c his wing-assembly is broken. Inconsistent much?

Edit: Largest insect that ever lived or flied, and its massive wingspan (70cm) was about a third of what Waspinator's was (I'm estimating about 200cm).

Absolute Zero wrote:There's a insect in existance now which breaks all the logical rules, the bumblebee, and is still able to fly. It's mass is... well, massive, compared to its wings. But, who's to say the weight of the exoskeleton would increase that rapidly? It's possible that it was either thinner then you're thinking, simular to a a bird's hollow bones, or there would easily be pockets of gas or something that would make the insect lighter. Nature will always find a way to accomplish what it wants.

Where did you get your information?
Just to check, I googled: "bumblebee defies laws of physics"
The first link you get is "How bumblebees fly - solved;the last link on the first page, is actually an forum here on Seibertron. Most sites are about how this is a myth.
It is generally known to be an urban myth, that many who know the subject, believe it came into existance by taking into account MANY assumptions to make the calcuations easier and by inaccurate measurements. Take a look at this website, to summarize I quote the conclusion:

Science News wrote:So, no one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee.

Insect flight and wing movements can be quite complicated. Wings aren't rigid. They bend and twist. Stroke angles change. New, improved models take that into account.

Caelus wrote:See, in the case of Stasis-Pods, I was thinking the pod's AI would scan all available organisms in the environment - b/c usually there should be more than one - and then evaluate them on multiple factors to arrive at the optimal form.

Going back to this subject for a minute, it occured to me that it was entirely possible that the equipment and programming on the stasis pods probably weren't that sophistacated. I think what we saw with Blackarachnia's "birth" was closer to the standard procedure; that is, the mothership's crew scans a planet's region, finds an appropriate specimen, then downloads the data to the protoform. Only afterwards was the pod sent on its journey to the planet. I think whatever programming the stasis pod itself possessed was basic instructions at best, not even close to true AI and was for emergencies only; same for its equipment.

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:Nature will always find a way to accomplish what it wants.

A common and faulty assumption propagated by Jurassic Park. Aside from the fact that, scientifically, nature isn't an anthropomorphic being with desires, there's the fact that things go extinct - evidence that even evolution has its limits.

Regardless, we're way off topic. If you want to continue this debate I can try to split this thread and move the argument to TF:GD.

Things go extinct because they become unnessicary. There's a reason it's called mother nature. Yes, everything is basically a random mutation, and sometimes those mutations don't pan out. Sometimes they do and something else happens. Like a meteor from space, or humans killing stuff. That's all I really ment. Nature, through random mutations, will solve most, if not all, problems over time. That's not saying things wont go extinct, just that things will continue.

As for splitting the thread... I'm a home body. HMWGD is my home, I don't stray on the forums.

Krsi wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:There's a insect in existance now which breaks all the logical rules, the bumblebee, and is still able to fly. It's mass is... well, massive, compared to its wings. But, who's to say the weight of the exoskeleton would increase that rapidly? It's possible that it was either thinner then you're thinking, simular to a a bird's hollow bones, or there would easily be pockets of gas or something that would make the insect lighter. Nature will always find a way to accomplish what it wants.

Where did you get your information?
Just to check, I googled: "bumblebee defies laws of physics"
The first link you get is "How bumblebees fly - solved;the last link on the first page, is actually an forum here on Seibertron. Most sites are about how this is a myth.
It is generally known to be an urban myth, that many who know the subject, believe it came into existance by taking into account MANY assumptions to make the calcuations easier and by inaccurate measurements. Take a look at this website, to summarize I quote the conclusion:

Science News wrote:So, no one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee.

Insect flight and wing movements can be quite complicated. Wings aren't rigid. They bend and twist. Stroke angles change. New, improved models take that into account.

I get my information from many sources. And I must say, congradulations. Since I didn't say a bumblebee can't fly, it obviously can.

-edit-

I must say, thank you though, as the sites did prove a point that since is still explaining things nature does, and not always accurately.

Absolute Zero wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:Nature will always find a way to accomplish what it wants.

A common and faulty assumption propagated by Jurassic Park. Aside from the fact that, scientifically, nature isn't an anthropomorphic being with desires, there's the fact that things go extinct - evidence that even evolution has its limits.

Regardless, we're way off topic. If you want to continue this debate I can try to split this thread and move the argument to TF:GD.

Things go extinct because they become unnessicary.

Things also go extinct because they are killed off for some reason. Take the dodo, they all got eaten because a new predator - the portuguese - was introduced into it's ecosystem.

There's a reason it's called mother nature.

Google paganism, young padawan.

something occurred to me I remember reading that the creators of the show had not planned on it being earth until the second season so it could be another reason why everything was off.Some of those animals T-rex and Gorillas I don't think lived at the same time period.

Symbiote Spiderman14 wrote:Some of those animals T-rex and Gorillas I don't think lived at the same time period.

And Understatement of the Year goes to...

Symbiote Spiderman14 wrote:Some of those animals T-rex and Gorillas I don't think lived at the same time period.

In the first episode all the animals are shown as they are being scanned.

The tyrannosaur, raptor, and pterosaur are all shown as fossils in the volcanic rock around the Darkside - amazingly intact and laughably close to eachother at that.

The wasp and the garden spider are shown dueling with each-other on a rock. It's interesting to note that the spider wasn't the same color as Tarantulas, demonstrating that among other things, they can take aesthetic liberties with their alternate modes.

Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

The two cheetahs Cheetor interacts with later are shown lounging in the plains, and a rhinoceres is shown grazing near a tree with a Gorilla in it. A small rat is in the tree above the Gorilla.

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Daneki wrote:Things also go extinct because they are killed off for some reason. Take the dodo, they all got eaten because a new predator - the portuguese - was introduced into it's ecosystem.

There's a reason it's called mother nature.

Google paganism, young padawan.

I thought I'd covered the first part, but I may have forgot to write that.

I know nature is called different things in different religions, I was mearly going with the most common and well known to the western world at large.

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Absolute Zero wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Scorponok shoots Dinobot in the chest in the first episode.

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

I'd have to watch the episode again to be sure, but I think the scorpion can be seen crawling around near the Pred crash site before they start scanning.

Edit: Guess not. My mind must be playing tricks on me.

On a side note, I did notice an inconcistancy in the early scenes. Scorponok clearly leaves the ship with the other Predacons, but then when Dinobot challenges Megatron, Scorps shows up behind Megs back inside the ship.

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Scorponok shoots Dinobot in the chest in the first episode.

Ah... hmm... I should watch the dvds I have then. I never did see the first episode of BW...

Absolute Zero wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Scorponok shoots Dinobot in the chest in the first episode.

Ah... hmm... I should watch the dvds I have then. I never did see the first episode of BW...

Download?

Daneki wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Scorponok shoots Dinobot in the chest in the first episode.

Ah... hmm... I should watch the dvds I have then. I never did see the first episode of BW...

Download?

you can find them on ytube too

Symbiote Spiderman14 wrote:

Daneki wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Caelus wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Thunderscream wrote:

Caelus wrote:Don't remember where the scorpion is seen.

I don't think the scorpion's shown at all.

Wasn't Scorponok a character introduced later?

Scorponok shoots Dinobot in the chest in the first episode.

Ah... hmm... I should watch the dvds I have then. I never did see the first episode of BW...

Download?

you can find them on ytube too

I owns the first two. Someone traded them in at my store, so I bought them. I think I got one or both free because of the buy 2 get 1 free deal going on til the end of time for DVDs... That's how I got one of my copies of the TF animated movie too.