The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:There's a new video on the Victory Saber page, showing the fully colored prototype in almost all modes:

https://cdn.shopify.com/videos/c/vp/5c154515719345f9aaea5d1769a943e8/5c154515719345f9aaea5d1769a943e8.HD-1080p-7.2Mbps.mp4

The back of combined mode is misassembled right? The leo feet should not be hanging willy nilly, we saw a really nice lock system in the grey prototypes shown at Fan Expo.

Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader (including the stand), and the two-pack of Micromasters is just that, that would be 85$us + 53$us + 11$us. Total 149$us. Victory Saber is 180$us. That's only 30$us more for the "premium exclusive." Considering that's what's surcharged for the X-over figure Dracula alone (at least for Canada.) That's a pretty insignificant surcharge for what we get.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

My final Price after taxes for VS was just shy of $195 USD. Still if you take the retail Price (Leader $53 + Voyager $32, + Micromasters $10, plus the Stand $17 (using Tenseg Base as a comparison) the total is $112.00 USD. So a little less than *double* Retail Price for a set of Premium Action Figures, that is still better than TFSS & Botcon, exclusives which were as previously said, all repaints, with *occasional* slight retooling or added accessories.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader (including the stand), and the two-pack of Micromasters is just that, that would be 85$us + 53$us + 11$us. Total 149$us. Victory Saber is 180$us. That's only 30$us more for the "premium exclusive." Considering that's what's surcharged for the X-over figure Dracula alone (at least for Canada.) That's a pretty insignificant surcharge for what we get.

Victory Leo comes with that giant gun, more than enough to warrant the leader price tag these days to the pint where I would think no one would complain. So you can give the stand to Star Saber making the commander price point more palatable since that's the one I feel needs a bit more convincing.

But yeah, $30 is the right surcharge.
People can say that's not much of an obstacle for retail but they will forget one thing:

by hasbro not doing it retail wise, they do take into account the fact that they can play with their margin. For instance when purchasing Rodimus Prime at Walmart, Hasbro only sees $40. But here they see the full $180.

For us, it makes almost no difference ($30). But for them, it's the differnece between going retail or not. To maintain the same margins of any other toy released at retail, they had to release this through a system where they would retain most of the retail sales as opposed to just half.

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Yuki spoke of size, not the class this would be distributed as, of which he has no say. He was merely speaking of the scale he was instructed to design it. Shockwave and Astrotrain are both voyager sized, so is the upcoming SS86 Starscream and I am 100% certain that so will leader Blitzwing.

Seeing what goes for as a leader these days when looking at Shockwave, Galvatron and Astrotrain, I have absolutely 0 reason to believe that Hasbro would ever release that Victory Leo as a voyager class toy. If someone reasing this does, please PM me, I have a bridge to sell you.

Size no longer equals distribution class, this is a long dead topic.

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

I think it's flawed to include the stretch goals. Those only happened because enough people backed. The price wouldn't have changed if it were just Victory Saber without any of those goals, so justifying the price with those goals in mind doesn't make sense.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

I think it's flawed to include the stretch goals. Those only happened because enough people backed. The price wouldn't have changed if it were just Victory Saber without any of those goals, so justifying the price with those goals in mind doesn't make sense.

Not really. For that price, we all knew it would easily blow past all the stretch goals and then some in the end.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

Gun would go to leo, making him leader easily (and its who the gun came with in G1). Stand would go to saber, which would be commander regardless (but the stand would help some people swallow that more easily). All hypothetical and maybe pointless, but I like painting a believable picture of how it would have looked at retail.

Also, Saber was rumoured to be released as commander class once and everyone was excited. No one second guessed that idea when it was a rumour due to the assumption that a commander class pricepoint would mean acing the triple level combining element and not taking any budget shortcuts (which is indeed what we got).

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

I think it's flawed to include the stretch goals. Those only happened because enough people backed. The price wouldn't have changed if it were just Victory Saber without any of those goals, so justifying the price with those goals in mind doesn't make sense.

Cup half full/cup half empty. I don't like to think of stretch goals as bonuses or rewards. I prefer to think of stretch goals as the ultimate bang for the buck, the complete package, any missed stretch goals are a loss we have to take for not collectively giving them enough money. It isn't entirely inaccurate, it's just backwards from the way you're supposed to think about it.

I'm much happier calling Star Saber a Commander class than Rodimus Prime, that's for sure.

Emerje

Well, if we're talking about what his class may have been if he were retail then it's definitely commander and leader.



SS wouldn't even fit into a Leader's box. Toss in some premade blast effects if you think he's not enough on his own. Even if his transformation is simple it seems like he has a lot of moving parts in him. Magnus there demonstrates some of the failings of Leader class and combining. His truck mode is terrible all on it's own. And I think the same would have held true for SS if he had to be squashed into that price point.

I'd feel more comfortable arguing Leo as a Leader. He about the right size. I know it's parts count not size, so I guess we'll see on that front. I guess he could have a ton of hollowness and be more like a voyager.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, if we're talking about what his class may have been if he were retail then it's definitely commander and leader.



SS wouldn't even fit into a Leader's box. Toss in some premade blast effects if you think he's not enough on his own. Even if his transformation is simple it seems like he has a lot of moving parts in him. Magnus there demonstrates some of the failings of Leader class and combining. His truck mode is terrible all on it's own. And I think the same would have held true for SS if he had to be squashed into that price point.

I'd feel more comfortable arguing Leo as a Leader. He about the right size. I know it's parts count not size, so I guess we'll see on that front. I guess he could have a ton of hollowness and be more like a voyager.

I agree with all this but just to be fully transparent, that pic with Magnus is photoshopped.

If you want a good comparison to some recent figures then pull out your SS86 Slug and Wreck-gar.


(Image from Slashercon in the Transformers haul section)

Slug is 9" to the top of his dino nose, Wreck-gar is about 6.75". Hasbro says Saber (the smaller bot) is 5" and Victory Leo is 7.5" and it's being guessed that Star Saber is 9.5" since the V-Star is 8.5". So if you have those two handy then just picture SS and VL as about an inch taller and you've got an idea of how big they are (and they're pretty big!).

Emerje

Emerje wrote:If you want a good comparison to some recent figures then pull out your SS86 Slug and Wreck-gar.


(Image from Slashercon in the Transformers haul section)

Slug is 9" to the top of his dino nose, Wreck-gar is about 6.75". Hasbro says Saber (the smaller bot) is 5" and Victory Leo is 7.5" and it's being guessed that Star Saber is 9.5" since the V-Star is 8.5". So if you have those two handy then just picture SS and VL as about an inch taller and you've got an idea of how big they are (and they're pretty big!).

Emerje

Wow, those are pretty big

william-james88 wrote:Wow, those are pretty big

That's what he said. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Emerje wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, supposing that Star Saber is a Commander (including cannon and shield), Victory Leo is a leader

Yuki called Star Saber Leader-sized and Victory Leo Voyager-sized, with the combined Victory Saber sized up to MP Star Saber, who was the size of Commander class Jetfire.

Will already said it but I'll have to point out that you just have to include a dongle or two to change the class of a toy. And that stand could even ironically change Leo to "Commander".

Well, I think the stand would only take him up to Leader, like the throne taking Starscream up to Leader. Especially if the gun came with Star Saber

I think it's flawed to include the stretch goals. Those only happened because enough people backed. The price wouldn't have changed if it were just Victory Saber without any of those goals, so justifying the price with those goals in mind doesn't make sense.

Cup half full/cup half empty. I don't like to think of stretch goals as bonuses or rewards. I prefer to think of stretch goals as the ultimate bang for the buck, the complete package, any missed stretch goals are a loss we have to take for not collectively giving them enough money. It isn't entirely inaccurate, it's just backwards from the way you're supposed to think about it.

I'm much happier calling Star Saber a Commander class than Rodimus Prime, that's for sure.

Emerje

Some scintillating discussion in here of late.

RE: Stretch goals

I absolutely think stretch goals should be included and here's why. These figures are getting custom tooling which is exceedingly expensive. No where in here have I seen anyone mention how much the tooling costs to manufacture these figures, but it's definitely a part of the pricing structure - probably more than the rote fitting of the Voyager/Leader/Commander box we all love to scruntch figures in. If tooling is say, 100k for a relatively simple action figure, I'd wager Transformers are more expensive. So in a way, at the top of the cost of every figure made there's a base of 100k that has to be 'made back' from that figure. Normally, there'd be the opportunities for repaints and all that, but I don't think we'll be seeing a Dark Star Saber or anything like that this time, it's a one use mold that as far as we know won't even be reprinted in the same colors.

To get to it, each stretch goal increases the cost of the tooling, but it also makes it more feasible to do. As I write this out, they probably start to see actual profit as you go up in tier, but to make the thing, they probably want the actual 20k at the end of the stretch goal because that makes the most sense to pay for the tooling to make the thing.

In a real sense, we made it most worth it to Hasbro to make Victory Saber by meeting all the tiers - especially since they probably already had to pay for the tooling either way.

Rodimus Prime is definitely a Commander Class figure.

william-james88 wrote:I agree with all this but just to be fully transparent, that pic with Magnus is photoshopped.

Oh, geez, you're right.

And aside from the size classes each figure most closely fits with, we know they're still more complex than average. If they were to be released at retail as a commander and leader, or as some nutjobs on Facebook insist as a Leader and Voyager, the molds would be simplified without the advanced joint systems, a reduced parts count, and likely not include the cannon and shield accessories. We can definitely count the stand out. $180 is the price that Hasbro determined would cover the costs of manufacture for 11,000 units and also earn them enough profit to make the project worthwhile. (for the record that's just under 2 million USD). Whether you believe it's worth it or not is of course a personal decision, and whether Hasbro NEEDS that extra $1.3 million in pure profit they're getting from the 7000 units beyond the final stretch goal is far more complex of a question than I'm willing to tackle. But that's the logic.

On a lighter note, I've been checking the numbers on it and it's fluctuating slightly. It's currently, at time of writing, sitting at 27,353 units. A few days ago it was 354, a few days before that it was about 8-9 units higher, so they're losing some orders. I assume this is from payments that they could not complete so they cancelled the orders. It's certainly not enough to halt production but it's just fun to monitor the progression here and see what our final tally truly is and how far after the deadline we actually know it.

Greetings Seibertronians!

If you backed the Victory Saber HASLAB project and are subscribed to the newsletter, you may already have received this email update on the production process. For those who haven't received it, I'm here to relay the info below.
You can also see the Hasbro Pulse page directly HERE.

Hasbro Pulse wrote:

Transformers Victory Saber HasLab Backer Update:

Onward to Victory!

Let’s say go, Victory Saber HasLab backers! Check out some behind-the-scenes-photos of the Victory Saber HasLab! The Transformers Hasbro and Takara Tomy designers use these mold plans to know exactly the color and type of plastic each piece will be made with.





In the photos you can see the V-Shield, V-Lock Cannon, and the Translucent Autobot display stand. Can you spot the pieces of the Brain of Courage Brainmaster figure? Here’s a hint there are 5 pieces. Try to find them in molds, 3, 4, 13, and 18. Can you find them all?





Stay tuned for more HasLab backer updates as we take you through the development process on this awesome item.

Until next time, Let’s Say Go!

Parents, are your kids exited? Leave a comment below!

Wow, that's really cool to see all the parts laid out like that!

I've always found WIP stuff to be really cool, seeing how stuff is made and fit together and whatnot. I really do think these are neat and show the project coming along.

This is like engineer porn. I like it!!!

Hasbro Pulse wrote:

Does it look like there are two different sword blades to anyone else? Cause to me it looks like there's a longer blade and a shorter one