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[Va'al]

What a great finale. That ending was very touching.

I really really wanted to Starscream to spell out that he loves her. Add some romance into the mix. Even though he didn't have to say it, it was clear imo. I sincerely hope they maintain the course and never go back to the old Starscream. It was demeaning to always see him abused by Megatron and crew. Scott's creative team from the dawn of Windblade has put significant effort in defeating evil Starscream...by making him good....and honestly I love that. This is the powerful writing that could change a perception of the character for ever. What he did in the end was for love and for the greater good.

I completely agree with that.

He would not do something like that without a reason. He loved his world, he loved her. He never would have risked himself unless he had feelings for her. And it was clear she had feelings for him. Both are too Stubborn and proud to admit it. He sacrificed himself for the love of many things. I also hope they do not revert him - this is how I believe he should end up. I also feel he is scared to admit affection for anyone on the chance he'll lose it forever - its more in character for him if he doesn't spell it out. If you love someone, you'll do anything for them. I am sure he feels she'll look over his ideas and plans and execute them, because he knows she was born to create something new.

Well thought out points, and sound reasoning! However, a counterpoint: that love is not romantic, just deep respect and trust - a proper, solid friendship.

[Sunstar]

What a great finale. That ending was very touching.

I really really wanted to Starscream to spell out that he loves her. Add some romance into the mix. Even though he didn't have to say it, it was clear imo. I sincerely hope they maintain the course and never go back to the old Starscream. It was demeaning to always see him abused by Megatron and crew. Scott's creative team from the dawn of Windblade has put significant effort in defeating evil Starscream...by making him good....and honestly I love that. This is the powerful writing that could change a perception of the character for ever. What he did in the end was for love and for the greater good.

I completely agree with that.

He would not do something like that without a reason. He loved his world, he loved her. He never would have risked himself unless he had feelings for her. And it was clear she had feelings for him. Both are too Stubborn and proud to admit it. He sacrificed himself for the love of many things. I also hope they do not revert him - this is how I believe he should end up. I also feel he is scared to admit affection for anyone on the chance he'll lose it forever - its more in character for him if he doesn't spell it out. If you love someone, you'll do anything for them. I am sure he feels she'll look over his ideas and plans and execute them, because he knows she was born to create something new.

Well thought out points, and sound reasoning! However, a counterpoint: that love is not romantic, just deep respect and trust - a proper, solid friendship.

This I also agree with because, I am in love with my husband and its a good solid friendship with a lot of respect and trust. We're not the most romantic of couples. But I tell him often that he is my best friend and my everything. 100%

[avarathriul]

it was interesting but, and maybe i am a cynic but, how long until star scream returns to himself?

[Sunstar]

I sat down last night and read the windblade through to the Annual- a long but good read. I must say the art progressed since the first windblade issues. I will really miss this arc and I hope they allow Starscream to continue to grow and not keep him rotting in a cell - there is far too much they can do with him at this stage.

[Randomhero]

So Starscreams in prison for life...and were getting an annual about him hiring Thundercracker to make a movie about how great he is in a couple months...

[Sunstar]

Not like that sort of thing doesnt happen in real life.

[Big Grim]

That annual was just sublime. I missed the last four issues of TAAO and picked em up, read the whole arc until the end of the annual. That really was a damned good series. Seriously sad to see it go.

[Va'al]

That annual was just sublime. I missed the last four issues of TAAO and picked em up, read the whole arc until the end of the annual. That really was a damned good series. Seriously sad to see it go.

Isn't it just so good read all in one go? 10-12 plus annual? So good.

[Big Grim]

Isn't it just so good read all in one go? 10-12 plus annual? So good.

It really, really is! Such a shame to be losing it! Hope we're not losing the team altogether! They worked wonders on the book.

[Sunstar]

I reread the whole winblade series and later after finishing the annual and I could see the lead up.

[snavej]

This series ended on an archetypal female preoccupation of 'taming the bad boy', as Lisa Simpson once mentioned on 'The Simpsons'. The ultimate aim is for the boy to be tame enough to become a good father (in this case a father figure) yet still be capable of ruthlessness when necessary.

[Sunstar]

Which is beautiful when considering Starscream. He was not always a bad boy - she re-directed him to a former potential.

[snavej]

Yeah, he could have been a great peacetime noble. Now he has a terrible reputation.

[Sunstar]

he always has had a terrible rep. He came out and was open with his crimes. He still could be released at some point in the near future and still do noble things. At the moment, being in jail keeps him safe for later. I'd rather that then someone offing him with stupid terrible magicks.

[snavej]

Actually, jail is no defence against magic.

[Sunstar]

No, but my logic is, if he is there, then he might be safer than if he was ruling Cybertron and getting himself into trouble. The real way he'd get involved is if: Windblade needed his sort of skill set or if the bad guy magic users decided, "lets break out the baddies and get them to help us."

[snavej]

'Ace-in-the-hole', they call it. Just have to hope that he doesn't make a blunder when they let him out! Winter Unicron is coming! [This time, his body will be composed mainly of illegally scanned/downloaded e-comics.]

Why did so many Decepticons join the movement in the first place? They wanted to eliminate all the corruption, etc. and make Cybertron a better place. We shouldn't be surprised if they become better characters after their LONG war.

[ZeroWolf]

'Ace-in-the-hole', they call it. Just have to hope that he doesn't make a blunder when they let him out! Winter Unicron is coming! [This time, his body will be composed mainly of illegally scanned/downloaded e-comics.]

Why did so many Decepticons join the movement in the first place? They wanted to eliminate all the corruption, etc. and make Cybertron a better place. We shouldn't be surprised if they become better characters after their LONG war.

From the way you've been replying I'm guessing you're not a fan of this series

As far as decepticons go though, I would say that some joined because they wanted to fight, especially when you look at characterisation of them, only a few believed in the ideals that they were originally fighting for

[Sunstar]

I think Starscream did believe in the ideals, he along with others, were corrupted along the way. I would think a war that lasted that long would become basically habitual.

[ScottyP]

it was interesting but, and maybe i am a cynic but, how long until star scream returns to himself?

If his next appearance is written by anyone who isn't Scott, Barber, Roberts, or Roche, then the answer is probably "his next appearance"

[snavej]

'Ace-in-the-hole', they call it. Just have to hope that he doesn't make a blunder when they let him out! Winter Unicron is coming! [This time, his body will be composed mainly of illegally scanned/downloaded e-comics.]

Why did so many Decepticons join the movement in the first place? They wanted to eliminate all the corruption, etc. and make Cybertron a better place. We shouldn't be surprised if they become better characters after their LONG war.

From the way you've been replying I'm guessing you're not a fan of this series

As far as decepticons go though, I would say that some joined because they wanted to fight, especially when you look at characterisation of them, only a few believed in the ideals that they were originally fighting for

Some parts of the series I liked, others not: shades of grey! Decepticons can see shades of grey too. Don't underestimate them. They say that they're only interested in fighting but they're clever enough to survive Autobot tricks and traps, so they must have considerable brainpower. QED.

[Sunstar]

As far as decepticons go though, I would say that some joined because they wanted to fight, especially when you look at characterisation of them, only a few believed in the ideals that they were originally fighting for

Some parts of the series I liked, others not: shades of grey! Decepticons can see shades of grey too. Don't underestimate them. They say that they're only interested in fighting but they're clever enough to survive Autobot tricks and traps, so they must have considerable brainpower. QED.

I am going to interject here this may get a bit long winded.

Shades of grey and characterisation of Decepticons AND Autobots:

As far as I have read and viewed (adding G1 cartoons into my frame of thinking) Especially in the realms of the Cartoons – it struck me as a propaganda story where they say who you should like who you should hate because one is good one is evil end of story - then goes to show how the bad guys are terrible, dysfunctional and are barely tolerating each other and how the good guys are nearly weak, powerless and overall swell, great to work for guys.

The comics and Cartoons show that the Autobots are just as wanting to fight the cons as the cons are wanting to fight the Autobots - maybe even more on an aggressive level than the Decepticons were. Heck, the Autobots went as far as including chips in the Decepticon's heads to detonate as soon as a con steps out of line” - with no trial. If that is not barbaric or evil, I don't know what is. Some cons were still stuck in their ways, Starscream did attempt to manipulate things in his favour, and he's no saint, But ultimately he did drop the badge, he did attempt to do things more or less right, if he was straddling some hefty shades of grey. There were still Autobots who were more than willing to fight and kill Decepticons because Decepticons exist. Some of the Decepticons may have felt the same way, but they had far more self control than lets say Arcee did.

Only a few Autobots also believed in the ideals they joined for. They are not perfectly good, and the Decepticons are not perfectly evil. Both sides lost track of what they were fighting for and ended up continuing the fight because they hated the other side.

Decepticons are not dysfunctional. They are a group that have chosen to live by the survival of the fittest ideal. The strongest leads, the rest fall into form behind. Their way of promotion may more or less be designed because Megatron was a gladiator, and that is a great way of ensuring the best are in power.

Starscream being second to Megatron indicated that he was strong. Maybe his strength was more mental power. I think he was extremely clever and cunning to manipulate others and Megatron – making them believe that he was weaker or stupid. But if he was stupid, he'd never have lasted at the rank he was at. The cartoons really dumb him down, but he's not as stupid as they like to portray – not for his position.

The Decepticons, had they been as dysfunctional as portrayed, they would not have lasted long into the war.

Many shades of grey all around, most straddle fairly dark shades of it on both sides.

TL:DR: I will not believe that the Autobots are the good guys simply because they are as aggressive if not more about wiping out (into extinction) the Decepticons, and many are unwilling to stop fighting them - even in peacetime.

[Va'al]

..we've had plenty of Decepticons been shown as 'not-bad', probably actually more than 'not-good' Autobots. I'm not sure the criticism here applies.

[ZeroWolf]

As far as decepticons go though, I would say that some joined because they wanted to fight, especially when you look at characterisation of them, only a few believed in the ideals that they were originally fighting for

Some parts of the series I liked, others not: shades of grey! Decepticons can see shades of grey too. Don't underestimate them. They say that they're only interested in fighting but they're clever enough to survive Autobot tricks and traps, so they must have considerable brainpower. QED.

I am going to interject here this may get a bit long winded.

Shades of grey and characterisation of Decepticons AND Autobots:

As far as I have read and viewed (adding G1 cartoons into my frame of thinking) Especially in the realms of the Cartoons – it struck me as a propaganda story where they say who you should like who you should hate because one is good one is evil end of story - then goes to show how the bad guys are terrible, dysfunctional and are barely tolerating each other and how the good guys are nearly weak, powerless and overall swell, great to work for guys.

The comics and Cartoons show that the Autobots are just as wanting to fight the cons as the cons are wanting to fight the Autobots - maybe even more on an aggressive level than the Decepticons were. Heck, the Autobots went as far as including chips in the Decepticon's heads to detonate as soon as a con steps out of line” - with no trial. If that is not barbaric or evil, I don't know what is. Some cons were still stuck in their ways, Starscream did attempt to manipulate things in his favour, and he's no saint, But ultimately he did drop the badge, he did attempt to do things more or less right, if he was straddling some hefty shades of grey. There were still Autobots who were more than willing to fight and kill Decepticons because Decepticons exist. Some of the Decepticons may have felt the same way, but they had far more self control than lets say Arcee did.

Only a few Autobots also believed in the ideals they joined for. They are not perfectly good, and the Decepticons are not perfectly evil. Both sides lost track of what they were fighting for and ended up continuing the fight because they hated the other side.

Decepticons are not dysfunctional. They are a group that have chosen to live by the survival of the fittest ideal. The strongest leads, the rest fall into form behind. Their way of promotion may more or less be designed because Megatron was a gladiator, and that is a great way of ensuring the best are in power.

Starscream being second to Megatron indicated that he was strong. Maybe his strength was more mental power. I think he was extremely clever and cunning to manipulate others and Megatron – making them believe that he was weaker or stupid. But if he was stupid, he'd never have lasted at the rank he was at. The cartoons really dumb him down, but he's not as stupid as they like to portray – not for his position.

The Decepticons, had they been as dysfunctional as portrayed, they would not have lasted long into the war.

Many shades of grey all around, most straddle fairly dark shades of it on both sides.

TL:DR: I will not believe that the Autobots are the good guys simply because they are as aggressive if not more about wiping out (into extinction) the Decepticons, and many are unwilling to stop fighting them - even in peacetime.

thank you for that post. I think I was thinking too simplistic with what I said and thinking again you are 100% correct, though one nitpick, arcee may of not been a great pick as someone could make a case for her having great reasons for lack of self control in the past!

Still I think I do like the IDW universe for showing this different after war scenario (and a non-war scenario through the functionist world shown in mtmte/lost light). I dont look forward to the day when this all gets lost in a reboot going back to a status quo of autobots v decepticons from the beginning again.

[Sunstar]

I only chose her because of what she did with that badgeless - it seemed brutal.

G1 had more than enough suggestions that the bots were the aggressors Basically off topic - so using spoiler tag

My points being (G1 cartoon based)

Autobots fired the first shots at the Decepticons – Starscream only meant to bury the ark's entrance.
Autobots attempted to keep the Decepticons on Earth.
Autobots took fuel from the humans and never left to go back to Cybertronian
Autobots continuously keep the Decepticons away from energy (and as a result starving them forcing them to take action)

The Decepticons may have attacked human built stuff, but the humans attacked the Decepticons and they defended themselves. The Autobots swooped in, drove them off and said the “Decepticons are bad, but we are good.”

Decepticons and Autobots unite to fight off unicron. Bots are victorious, Decepticons exiled to starve to death on Charr - and they wonder why they rise up to fight the Autobots.

Even if they did a reboot - which would suck because this was pretty glorious. And as for anything in this franchise, you can pick and choose what you love and dislike. I sure as heck love this <3