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ZeroWolf wrote:Ahh you're talking about the what if issue where hot rod didn't jump in the way. Has anyone told you yet that megs is an autobot now and that Prowl was part of devestator?
To steal from the G2 comic a little,"IDW is not your father's G1" so don't treat as such and you'll be fine. It's better anyway then the old G1 in my opinion...though that gets tested when the editorial team do crossovers for the sake of launching a different franchise completely
ZeroWolf wrote:I see your view now, I disagree with it but I understand better. As I said treat this as different from what you know, like beast wars etc. As for the focus? Well G1 nostalgia (remember season 3 and the rebirth are not remembered fondly for different reasons) is key, but overtime IDW has shown a willingness to change hence we have brand new characters taking centre stage like windblade, brand new takes on character's like starscream which evolve well beyond what G1 would of let them. You mention Thundercracker, well he's come a long way, playing a key role in several arcs.
For what it's worth though I would recommend More than meets the eye/lost light as hot rod takes center stage along with a host of other not well known characters and several new ones. It's also the series that most focused on autobot megatron, really delving into his mind set .
Greatness recognizes greatness, and like crappy comics, we are all shadowed by it. I think that's the 100% accurate version of that quote maybe.Burn wrote:I typed this after BEFORE reading ScottyP's review (I don't like to have things spoilt for me) and ... wow. We agree on a fair few points it seems. What does that say when people are agreeing with me?
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I see your view now, I disagree with it but I understand better. As I said treat this as different from what you know, like beast wars etc. As for the focus? Well G1 nostalgia (remember season 3 and the rebirth are not remembered fondly for different reasons) is key, but overtime IDW has shown a willingness to change hence we have brand new characters taking centre stage like windblade, brand new takes on character's like starscream which evolve well beyond what G1 would of let them. You mention Thundercracker, well he's come a long way, playing a key role in several arcs.
For what it's worth though I would recommend More than meets the eye/lost light as hot rod takes center stage along with a host of other not well known characters and several new ones. It's also the series that most focused on autobot megatron, really delving into his mind set .
See the thing about G1, when you go back and re-watch it. Season one and two aren't great. Just the pilot alone, with Megatron cackling "excellent" over and over again like a mechanical Mr. Burns, is quite cringe inducing now. See at least in The Movie, Megatron is genuinely intimidating.
As I've said elsewhere, I never really paid all that much attention to the Pre-Movie seasons and so actually watched them properly when they were re-released on DVD about 15 years ago. For all the rose tinted nostalgia, Season 1 & 2 are aimless. Aside from the occasional cliffhanger there is no overall progressing narrative. The serialised nature of Season 3 however, is a noticeable improvement instantly. The Five Faces of Darkness was more engaging a story than any plot from before The Movie. True, Season 3 did also have the single worst episode of G1 ever ( B.O.T.) but no TF series has ever had all winning episodes IE BW 'The Low Road'. At the end of the day the people who didn't like Season 3 & 4 because "_____" wasn't in it, having died in the Movie, that comes down to fans unwilling to accept change,as opposed to any fault of the Seasons themselves.
The characters of Season 3 & 4 looked more like they are supposed to also. Futuristic alien robots, which is the entire point of Transformers. Countless writers and creators seem oblivious to the fact that the Cybertronians aren't just 'people in robot suits' they are a sentient alien race.
So they get dumbed down and humanised instead. A mark I actually hold against MTMTE and Lost Light, from what little I read in Phase Two. Vol.1 of the HC Collection. If you can't write about alien robots as alien robots, write a book about people instead.
Simon Furman gets these characters. The -Ations in particular parallels the alien nature of the Transformers with relateability, without retreading the characterisation of his previous G1 series.
Giving them understandable personalities without forcing human feelings and behaviors upon them. That's what the human supporting cast is for after all, not the Bots themselves.
His Hot Rod Spotlight perfectly encapsulated everything about his character, both as Hot Rod and the doubts that drove him as Rodimus Prime.
A good writer adapts their style to a pre-established series, they don't change a series to suit them. That is how you end up with the Costa run...
End of off topic Rant.
Publicly available comic sales data is terrible. That said, for what is around, SSF 1 did less than 4,000 copies in numbers sold by Diamond in the US to comic shops. That's real low for a #1. Really, really low, even for IDW. I think that stinks but there's at least some truth to the numbers doing it in, with the rest filled in to some degree by controversy/marketing/whatnot. Just for comparison: OP and Lost Light, despite being (effectively) at issues 72/71 with all the attrition that comes along with it, are at around 6,000 copies (give or take a bit) each month.ZeroWolf wrote:On topic, I feel like there's an injustice here that scarlet strike force is cancelled, till all are one was cancelled yet we get this in return?
ZeroWolf wrote:Your point seems to boil down to that once something is set, that's the way it must stay. Also arguing about how fictional giant robots would behave (how do you know they wouldn't have interpersonal relationships and be capable of emotions?) Is probably a good sign that the debate has gone on long enough
ZeroWolf wrote:Personally I love this humanised take as you put it, it makes the characters feel developed, Furman was no stranger and he employed it frequently after all, and I'm sure he would be happy with the stuff that's been added to the IDW mythology (okay, not all of it, he'll have turned his nose up at tf v visionaries)
ZeroWolf wrote:On topic, I feel like there's an injustice here that scarlet strike force is cancelled, till all are one was cancelled yet we get this in return?
ZeroWolf wrote:I think there's a proverb that goes like this:
"Agree with burn? Invest in a fallout shelter"
ScottyP wrote:Publicly available comic sales data is terrible. That said, for what is around, SSF 1 did less than 4,000 copies in numbers sold by Diamond in the US to comic shops. That's real low for a #1. Really, really low, even for IDW. I think that stinks but there's at least some truth to the numbers doing it in, with the rest filled in to some degree by controversy/marketing/whatnot. Just for comparison: OP and Lost Light, despite being (effectively) at issues 72/71 with all the attrition that comes along with it, are at around 6,000 copies (give or take a bit) each month.ZeroWolf wrote:On topic, I feel like there's an injustice here that scarlet strike force is cancelled, till all are one was cancelled yet we get this in return?
TAAO is a weird case but I'd guess now that Scott stepped away once she saw the editorial concept for TF vs Visionaries, which led to that separate launch rather than it being an attempted jumpstart for TAAO's sales. This is speculation of the highest order, just to be clear!
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:True, Season 3 did also have the single worst episode of G1 ever ( B.O.T.) but no TF series has ever had all winning episodes IE BW 'The Low Road'.
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
Ten years ago, I didn't think piracy was a big problem. It is now, at least for comics. A quick google search will give you basically any comic you want to read shortly after it comes out (sometimes just hours after!) and you don't have to pay for it. That's patently insane and no other entertainment industry would stand for it.Coptur wrote:The sales for SSFF speak for themselves and the GIJoe series before it (Sitterson-era).
The combined universe has not been very good for GIJoe.
4000 - 6000 comics order for Billion dollar franchises is terrible. In terms of actual comic shop sales i'd say it's probably less than half of the diamond orders. my limited evidence is seeing the unsold copies in three local comic shops (note: i recognise this evidence isn't quantifiable)
Sunstar wrote:I do admit, I tend to read those until I can get my hands on a paper copy.
With that said, I recently bought a humble bundle of digital copies a while back, which allowed me to get caught up on most books to where I was able to go out and buy again. (I would like paper copies of those books because I enjoy relaxing in my Seeker Sanctuary and reading them surrounded by all my glorious Starscreams. And yes the Seeker Sanctuary is a physical place now <3
As for the visionaries - the copies I have are in the pull file - I am still trying to decide if I want to buy them or not (hard to decide with my intense dislike of the series thus far) I kinda feel compelled since I do read them online.
ZeroWolf wrote:Megatron origins has been diluted but we've had a decade of tf stories so it makes sense that things would be added in, it's just the same as Marvel or DC. As for Magnus, with what Roberts has done with his backstory, there's no problem with different takes as we don't know at what point Minimus Ambus took over the suit.
It sounds like you would rather it be like the old dreamwave series which hewed very close to G1 toon, which I didn't care for.
"...the panel above of Leoric guaranteed to wash away any desire you had left to see the 80s cartoon Burt Reynolds looking version of the character..."
primalxconvoy wrote:"...the panel above of Leoric guaranteed to wash away any desire you had left to see the 80s cartoon Burt Reynolds looking version of the character..."
Nope.
I think it's completely possibly to bring back a design that homages they original look, without it looking cheesy.
ZeroWolf wrote:Well there's always how Unicron will impact things but I think you're wrong about IDW not having a future.
To start with let's agree that IDW did start on the right foot with the new implementation of the franchise. We got new takes on familiar characters and depth was added to ones who never really got much of a starring role. I mean one of the first major antagonists was a new character more or less. Megatron origins provided a glimpse of megs the early years but left things open still to be explored further (say what you will about the cracy series but they helped show that the system was broken back then) then came all hail megatron which I felt was a step back, even going back to the 80s designs when it made no sense. Still I think it was important that it happened as it provided hooks to greater things later on (it never pays to be too tidy when you're telling stories, leave some hooks there for later use) then we got the first ongoing which was hit or miss in places. Then of course came the chaos event which was were the biggest change came to the status quo that I loved...the war ended, the decepticons lost but the autobots...also lost? Yes, things werenth rosy for them as the Cybertronians who had fled the war returned and decided they wanted rid of both factions. Enter starscream who got the biggest shot in the arm he's ever had, as he got elected leader and got rid of the badges. While this sets up the Dark Cybertron event it also represents a point where new ground was being broken. The G1 toon had ended the war in the Movie but the Seasons that followed didn't do anything with it as the cons were still the antagonists and the cons were actually the outnumbered force as the Bots clearly outnumbered them (after all, bad guy toys never sold as well as good guys). I digress but the IDW peace meant it could offer new takes on where the agression would come from, if it was because prime took it upon himself to annex earth or starscream and windblade trying to get other colony world's on board with the council of worlds. Even storylines like soundwave trying to build a safe haven for cons so they could live to their own ideals. We were even able to get a comedy road trip series (MTMTE/lost light) which gave us new reasons to fear overlord, a new take on star saber which shown what zealotry was like (which was hard for me at first as I love victory but I know they are separate), we were given renditions of chromedome and rewind which part of the fandom took to heart and it allowed one dimensional characters like cyclonus to live again and develop.
Now you may ask what the point of this is, so let me ask you, if you had started reading the IDW series when all hail megatron ended and someone asked you what you thought was going to happen in the series, how much of what happened would you really have guessed? I wouldn't of saw nearly any of these developments (save Unicron but it was just when IDW were going to play that card). So you say IDW doesn't have a future, well I say we just can't see what it is yet*
*unless things really get messed up by the end of the visionaries series then please someone reboot it so the joes are the first ones to meet them on earth through a magic portal...
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