The Energon Pub

NOTE: This post has since been edited from its original posting to incorporate all my criticisms into one coherent assembly. The original content of this post as it was originally written can be found near the bottom of the post, just beyond the second note and the line of five emoticons.

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I am greatly dissatisfied with the English subtitles of the Shout! Factory DVD releases of The Headmasters, Super-God Masterforce, and Victory. These subs do not accurately reflect the content of what is being spoken by the Japanese dialogue and instead alter the translation script at certain points in attempts to unnecessarily Americanize and alter the meanings of the dialogue.

I've compiled a long list of criticisms I've had with these subs. Most come from The Headmasters, but some also come from Masterforce and Victory.

In episode 3 of The Headmasters, there's a scene in which the subtitles used in this new DVD release are way off with several parts of the dialogue. It's the scene where Alpha Trion revitalizes the Matrix and restores Hot Rod to his Rodimus Prime form, and then Rodimus and Optimus team up together for the first time.

Here's a comparison between the three different subtitled versions of this scene:

Metrodome/Madman DVDs

Alpha Trion: "Rodimus, lift up Matrix!"
Alpha Trion: "O Almighty Matrix, resurrect yourself with cosmic wisdom and power!"
Unspecified voices: "Rodimus Prime!"
Another voice: "Rodimus has come back as a Commander!"
Narrator: "Behold! A dramatic moment in history! The birth of Double Optimus Prime!"

TV-Nihon fansubs

Alpha Trion: "Rodimus... Let me return the Matrix to normal!"
Alpha Trion: "Use the energy to recharge the Matrix! Revive the power surpassing the Wisdom of the Cosmos!"
Unspecified voices: "Rodimus Convoy!"
Another voice: "Rodimus has become a Commander again!"
Narrator: "Did you see it? The most dramatic scene of the century! The birth of the dream! Double Convoy!

Shout! Factory DVDs:

Alpha Trion: "Hot Rod, lift up the Matrix!"
Alpha Trion: "May the Matrix of Leadership light out darkest hour!"
Unspecified voices: "Hot Rod!"
Another voice: "Hot Rod has been reborn as Rodimus Prime!"
Narrator: "Behold! A dramatic moment in history! The combined strength of two Primes!"

That second line of Alpha Trion's resembles nothing of what he really says, being nothing more than a case of fanwank forced in as incorrect translation. Not to mention the typo of "light out darkest hour".

And it most certainly is not stated by the narrator to be the "combined strength" of "two Primes", but rather that it is the "dream-like birth" or "fantastic birth" of "Double Convoy/Prime".

This isn't the only case of this kind of change. Fortress was given the name "Cerebros" in the subs, when he has an entirely different identity from G1 Cerebros. He's as much Cerebros as Ginrai is Optimus.

Sixshot's title of "Destron/Decepticon Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer" is renamed "Phase Six Decepticon officer", using a term from IDW G1 that has no place in this show.

All cassette Transformers are subbed as "Deployers", which isn't even a G1 term.

The unspecified energy that was recharging the Matrix directly referred to as Plasma Energy, thus removing any mystique and wonder behind the unknown energy that would help to empower the Matrix. Not to mention that this is well before any of the characters even hear about Plasma Energy.

Certain episode titles become wonky in the translation. "Four Warriors Come out of the Sky" is subbed as "Warriors from Space". "Behold the Birth of Double Convoy" is subbed as "The Rebirth of Rodimus Prime". "The Great Cassette Operation" is subbed as "Operation: Autobot Deployers". And so on and so forth.

"Scrap" is constantly used as an expletive, over any typical choice like "darn", "blast" or "curses" that would have sufficed without feeling forced.

Slang terms such as "Autojerk" and Decepticreep" are used where nonexistent.

The meteorite named Metemorphose is subbed as "Metamorphosis" And its magnetic properties are redefined as gravitational properties, which is utter nonsense given the context of that episode, since it deals with the the meteorite having an influence on metals.

Far too often, when the dialogue says one thing and the subs say another, the subs don't make sense:

• As stated in the above example, Alpha Trion simply beckons for the Matrix to be revived with new energy and wisdom. He does not say anything about it "light[ing] [their] darkest hour" (as the subs claim).
• Also stated above, Metamorphose has warping effects on metallic properties, not gravitational properties. That's why Daniel wears the traditional astronaut space suit instead of his robotic exosuit.
• The Decepticon Headmasters wanted the Autobot Headmasters to surrender their Transtectors to them, not teach them their "transforming technique" (as the subs claim).
• Scorponok says that the Plasma Energy released by Cybertron's destruction is a more valuable energy source than anything on Earth. He does not say that Earth is a source of Plasma Energy for his plans (as the subs claim).
• "Shireikan" (meaning "commander") is translated as "Rodimus Prime" a few times, leading to such lines referring to him as "the Rodimus Prime" instead of "the Commander".
• A bomb's countdown is changed from "minutes" to "cycles" and then later to "clicks". Make up your mind, DVD. Is it one or the other?
• When Scourge and Cyclonus don't believe Scorponok's claim of having been appointed "acting Emperor" (which here was subbed as "Deputy Commander") by Galvatron himself, Soundblaster was originally pleased with Scorponok being in command and tells the other two that they simply have no choice but to follow him. In these new subs, however, Soundblaster makes some nonsensical claim of him representing Galvatron himself and orders Scourge and Cyclonus to serve under Scorponok.

These changes make less sense than what is said by the very dialogue spoken on screen. These changes are too specific to have been mere mistranslations. Many/most of them feel like they were done deliberately.

In some later episodes on The Headmasters DVD set, they actually CUT OUT some lines of dialogue, none of which were even slightly offensive.

Even later episodes in The Headmasters feature subtitles that make mention of such non-G1 subjects as the "Pit", the "Inferno" (early name for the Pit), and even the "AllSpark", which does not exist in the G1 cartoon continuity (the one from Beast Machines was spelled "Allspark" with a lowercase S. The uppercase S spelling specifically deviates the two from each other). The ones mentioning the Pit and the Inferno were attempts to cover up any mentionings of Hell (Jigoku), when the word "Hell" already appeared in the same context as "Pit/Inferno" in the subs of earlier episodes.

Many characters in Masterforce got the names of the American characters whose toys they share molds with, despite the Masterforce versions being entirely different characters from their American counterparts. They even applied some of these names to their human forms! Though, it seems that only those whose toys use the same deco as the American toys were changed (minus Cab, who kept his name for some reason), meaning all redecos got to keep their original names.

Lander --> "Landmine"
Diver --> "Waverider"
Phoenix --> "Cloudburst"
Lightfoot --> "Getaway"
Road King --> "Slapdash"
Blood --> "Bomb-Burst"
Dauros --> "Skullgrin"
Gilmer --> "Submarauder"
Wilder --> "Fangry"
Bullhorn --> "Horri-Bull"
Cancer --> "Squeezplay", and "Plague"
Turtler --> "Snaptrap"
Gulf --> "Skalor"
Kraken --> "Seawing"
Lobclaw --> "Nautilator"
King Poseidon --> "Piranacon"
Clouder/Doubleclouder --> "Dealer/Doubledealer"
Guzzle --> "Cindersaur"
Javil --> "Sparkstalker"
Sizzle --> "Flamefeather"
Guardminder --> "Fasttrack"

The subtitles also renamed the Godmasters as being "Powermasters", which is an entirely different concept whose only similarity lies within aesthetics rather than function. Not to mention that at least one "Powermaster" already exists in the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity, as a separate type of being from the Godmasters.

Not even the Chōkon Power was granted any mercy from these subs, as they claim it to be the most generic, simple-minded idea of "Energon Power", making it a kind of energon instead of its own power source.

Thus, Chichōkon, Jinchōkon, Tenchōkon (the powers of Earth, humanity, and the heavens, respectively) are renamed "Earth Energon", "Spark Energon" (sure, take away the significance of the human aspect, why dontcha? ) and "Star Energon" (not exactly what "the heavens" refers to, i.e. - "space", not just the stars).

With Victory, since there were less American toy molds, there were less name changes (THANK GOODNESS). Buuuuuuuuut, they still managed to slip some in.

Blacker --> "Gripper"
Holi --> "Stakeout"
Deszaras --> "Deathsaurus" (tolerable, maybe)

With Deszaras, while "Deathsaurus" is his official English name, it's still a little irksome to me considering how he's not even a dragon or dinosaur, but a bird kaiju (that head of his altmode's is clearly avian, rather than reptilian). Though, it's not as bad as some of the others and I CAN deal with this one. I'm simply pointing it out for completion's sake.

And then there's the Breastforce. Since they're too paranoid to use this term, they've crafted a cover up term in the form of "Chestforce", which is so PC that it is utter garbage.

And, it's not even just the subtitles, but all three DVD cases use the logo for The Headmasters on them, when Masterforce and Victory each have their own unique logos, yet both were ignored and all three series have a logo that reads "Za Heddomasutaazu" on their DVD cases.

As you can see, I am very disappointed in this. Regardless of the flaws of Metrodome's and Madman's DVDs, or even those of the TV-nihon fansubs, at least they tried to adhere to the original dialogue scripts as best they could. This, however, is just sad.

Note that in no way am I asking for a LITERAL translation. That's ludicrous. Subtitle translations can be written faithful and accurate to the Japanese script, retaining the meaning of the dialogue, while still written in a way that is both legible and clear to the casual English speaker. THAT is what should have been done. To do otherwise in an officially subbed anime product is unprofessional and counterproductive, especially considering how Shout! Factory advertised these translations as being accurate and faithful.

As an example of how an accurate translation can work without being overtly literal, I'll use this line from the Japanese version of Dragon Ball Z as an example:
"Supaa Saiya-jin Son Goku da!"
When literally translated, it reads something like:
"Super Saiyan Son Goku, I am!"
While accurate, the grammatical syntax is terrible. A more proper translation that still retains the original message would be:
"I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!"

THAT is BOTH accurate AND grammatically correct in English. Nothing of what is originally being spoken is lost, and it makes sense when spoken in English. That is how subtitles should be. What Hasbro has done with these subtitles is the equivalent of taking the original phrase and translating it as:
"Ally to good! Nightmare to you!"
In which the original meaning is completely lost due to some botched up new phrase being forced in for no good reason other than shallow fanwank (as is the case with these Shout! Factory subs).


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NOTE: The above content has been added at a point later from this post's original posting. The following is all that this post originally said prior to the above update.


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I am really steamed with Hasbro and Shout! Factory right now. I just watched a scene from the third episode The Headmasters, and the subtitles used in this new DVD release are WAAAAAAY off with several parts of the dialogue!

It's the part where Alpha Trion revitalizes the Matrix and restores Hot Rod to his Rodimus Prime form, and then Rodimus and Optimus team up together for the first time.

Here's a comparison between the three different subtitled versions of this scene:

Metrodome DVDs

Alpha Trion: "Rodimus, lift up Matrix!"
Alpha Trion: "O Almighty Matrix, resurrect yourself with cosmic wisdom and power!"
Unspecified voices: "Rodimus Prime!"
Another voice: "Rodimus has come back as a Commander!"
Narrator: "Behold! A dramatic moment in history! The birth of Double Optimus Prime!"

TV-Nihon fansubs

Alpha Trion: "Rodimus... Let me return the Matrix to normal!"
Alpha Trion: "Use the energy to recharge the Matrix! Revive the power surpassing the Wisdom of the Cosmos!"
Unspecified voices: "Rodimus Convoy!"
Another voice: "Rodimus has become a Commander again!"
Narrator: "Did you see it? The most dramatic scene of the century! The birth of the dream! Double Convoy!

Shout! Factory DVDs:

Alpha Trion: "Hot Rod, lift up the Matrix!"
Alpha Trion: "May the Matrix of Leadership light out darkest hour!"
Unspecified voices: "Hot Rod!"
Another voice: "Hot Rod has been reborn as Rodimus Prime!"
Narrator: "Behold! A dramatic moment in history! The combined strength of two Primes!"

That second line of Alpha Trion's resembles nothing of what he really says, being nothing more than a case of fanwank forced in as incorrect translation. Not to mention the typo of "light out darkest hour".

And it most certainly is not stated by the narrator to be the "combined strength" of "two Convoys/Primes", but rather that it is the "dream-like birth" of "Double Convoy/Prime".

And what's more, this isn't the only case of this kind of change. Fortress was given the name "Cerebros" in the subs, when he is an entirely different identity from G1 Cerebros. He's as much Cerebros as Ginrai is Optimus.

Sixshot's title of "Decepticon Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer" is renamed "Phase Six Decepticon officer", using a term from IDW G1 that has no place in this show.

All cassette Transformers are subbed as "Deployers", which isn't even a G1 term!

The unspecified energy that was recharging the Matrix directly referred to as Plasma Energy, thus removing any mystique and wonder behind the unknown energy that would help to empower the Matrix. Not to mention that this is well before any of the characters even hear about Plasma Energy.

Episode titles become wonky in the translation. "Four Warriors Come out of the Sky" is subbed as "Warriors from Space". "Behold the Birth of Double Convoy" is subbed as "The Rebirth of Rodimus Prime". "The Great Cassette Operation" is subbed as "Operation: Autobot Deployers". And so on and so forth.

"Scrap" is used as an expletive, over any typical choice like "darn", "blast" or "curse".

Slang terms such as "Autojerk" and Decepticreep" are used where nonexistent

The meteorite named Metemorphose is subbed as "Metamorphosis" And its magnetic properties are redefined as gravitational properties, which is utter nonsense given the context of that episode, since it deals with it having an influence on metals.

And, according to the Evolution of Transformers animation panel at SDCC 2011, there will be even more changes made to Masterforce and Victory.

They're gonna be using the English names for characters in Masterforce who are entirely different characters from their American counterparts. Like, the Decepticon Pretenders Blood, Gilmer, and Dauros are gonna be subbed as "Bomb-Burst", "Submarauder", and "Skullgrin". Though, they did say that some like Ginrai and Minerva (who do have Western counterparts) will be keeping their Japanese names, but there's no telling where they'll draw the line with the others.

Though, I'm not even sure they're gonna even get Ginrai's names right. In the slideshow, Super Ginrai was called "God Ginrai" and the real God Ginrai was called "Super God Ginrai".

And they're renaming the Godmasters as being "Powermasters", which is an entirely different concept whose only similarity lies within aesthetics rather than function.

For Victory, Deszaras is using his "Deathsaurus" name, which is still irksome considering how he's not even a dragon or dinosaur! He's a bird kaiju!

And then there's the Breastforce. Since they're too paranoid to use this term, they've crafted a cover up term in the form of "Chestforce".

As you can see, I am very disappointed in this. Regardless of the flaws of Metrodome's and Madman's DVDs, or even those of the TV-nihon fansubs, at least they tried to adhere to artistic authenticity (TV-Nihon especially). This, however, is just sad.

I own the Metrodome sets and as far as I know their subtitles are done well. Please note that I don't speak a single word of Japanese. The names correspond with what's on the TF boxes, FWIW.

And well, Kaiju-dragon... A thin line. I take Deszaras to be inspired by Rodan. What defines a dragon anyway?

RhA wrote:I own the Metrodome sets and as far as I know their subtitles are done well. Please note that I don't speak a single word of Japanese. The names correspond with what's on the TF boxes, FWIW.

The only problematic subs that Metrodome had were those of The Headmasters. But those were mostly spelling and grammar issues, and one episode having the subs of another episode appear on screen during its moments of silence. But other than that, they were passable.

RhA wrote:And well, Kaiju-dragon... A thin line. I take Deszaras to be inspired by Rodan. What defines a dragon anyway?

It's the head that makes all the difference. His altmode head is neither draconian nor reptilian. It is clearly avian in appearance.

I own the Madman set import from Austrailia I bought back in 2007 and it has the same subtitles as the Metrodome ones.
Thats sounds really strange that Shout made those odd changes. Especially Fortress being named Cerebros when they know that the American fan base already know Cerebros to be someone else in the American series and was never even used the Japanese version.

I'm sure I read somewhere that some of the changes were forced by Hasbro, who didn't want the Japanese concepts "out there" on top of what they had already established. The logic seems to be one of brand cohesion/identification for the more casual fan.

This was the same reason given for not including the so-bad-it's-good Star TV dub; Hasbro didn't want it anywhere near thier logo.

Quite who they think is buying Japanese subtitled TF cartoons is another matter entirely....

Pretender Skywarp wrote:This was the same reason given for not including the so-bad-it's-good Star TV dub; Hasbro didn't want it anywhere near thier logo.

A shame really. Crap that bad is on it's own level.

Pretender Skywarp wrote:Quite who they think is buying Japanese subtitled TF cartoons is another matter entirely....

Hilariously strange, yes. Let's be realistic, it's awesome the sets can be watched by anyone who wants to now, but the target audience of these sets... Well, that would be us. And we like Goryu jus the way he is.

RhA wrote:

Pretender Skywarp wrote:Quite who they think is buying Japanese subtitled TF cartoons is another matter entirely....

Hilariously strange, yes. Let's be realistic, it's awesome the sets can be watched by anyone who wants to now, but the target audience of these sets... Well, that would be us. And we like Goryu jus the way he is.

Exactly! They changed the Breastforce to the "Chestforce" out of fear that the parents of the kids watching this will get angry at Hasbro, yet kids are not the people who are going to be buying, much less watching, these things.

This could have easily been rectified by marketing them to the "Ages 13 and Up" crowd just like every other uncut anime series is.

And what's more, I've discovered even further changes made. In some later episodes on The Headmasters DVD set, they actually CUT OUT some lines of dialogue, none of which were even slightly offensive. So much for these being uncut releases.

Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Counterpunch wrote:Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Have you no appreciation for artistic authenticity? If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not ours, and we are to respect that.

Sabrblade wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Have you no appreciation for artistic authenticity? If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

I have to agree with CP that, for the most part, these are appropriate changes. Translating from Japanese to English is a tricky beast - if you've ever read any academic articles about translating Japanese to English, I suspect you'd have a better appreciation for this challenge. But I have to say, based on what you showed us, the new subs are an improvement, and they seem to have done an excellent job of keeping the authorial intent while creating more comprehensible subtitles.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you are assuming that the previous dubs must be 100% exact translations, which may not be true.

It Is Him wrote:Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you are assuming that the previous dubs must be 100% exact translations, which may not be true.

I am aware that there are a few errors in those older subs, but those errors are different in that they still tried to retain the original meanings of all the dialogue, whereas these new subs have openly rewrote the meanings of several lines of dialogue.

Alpha Trion simply beckons for the Matrix to be revived with new energy and wisdom. He does not say anything about it "light[ing] [their] darkest hour".

Metamorphose has warping effects on metallic properties, not gravitational properties. That's why Daniel wears the traditional astronaut space suit instead of his robotic exosuit.

The Decepticons Headmasters wanted the Autobot Headmasters to surrender their Transtectors to them, not teach them their "transforming technique".

Scorponok says that the Plasma Energy released by Cybertron's destruction is a more valuable energy source than anything on Earth. He does not say that Earth is a source of Plasma Energy for his plans.

"Shireikan" (meaning "commander") is translated as "Rodimus Prime" a few times, leading to such lines referring to him as "the Rodimus Prime" instead of "the Commander".

A bomb's countdown is changed from "minutes" to "cycles" and then later to "clicks". You'd think "minutes" would be the easier one to understand, right?

When Scourge and Cyclonus don't believe Scorponok's claim of having been appointed "acting Emperor" (which here was subbed as "Deputy Commander") by Galvatron himself, Soundblaster was originally pleased with Scorponok being in command and tells the other two that they simply have no choice but to follow him. In these new subs, however, Soundblaster makes some nonsensical claim of representing Galvatron himself and orders Scourge and Cyclonus to serve under Scorponok.


These changes are too specific to have been mere mistranslations. Many/most of them feel like they were done deliberately.

Sabrblade wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Have you no appreciation for artistic authenticity? If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

For someone who is so very much into Japanese culture (and I don't know the extent of your actual language training, I have 1 year + of JPN language classes and 2+ years of culture and lit under my belt) I am surprised that you can't separate the difference between artistic authenticity and the reality of translating idiomatic Japanese into other languages.

You simply can not translate Japanese to a romance/galic based language without some degree of interpretive translation, otherwise you get absolute garbage.

It's not a one for one kind of thing.

Then why not have them consult with the original creators to get a translation as close to their original creative vision as possible?

Those subtitles (and some other edits I have read, like cutting out the recaps) sound ...well, kind of dreadful.

Some subtitle changes (placing "Autobots" and "Decepticons" in place of "Cybertrons" and "Destrons" respectively, the mild language edits) were to be expected, but the character name changes... eh, I would have left some of that alone. I just hope that when Masterforce is done, they really stick to the script (and don't do something stupid like calling Ginrai "Optimus Prime" despite the fact that we know the TOY as such in the USA). I can live with "Scrap" instead of "Crap", but cmon w/the dialogue mincing.

I hope that the hold-up in the big Japanese Collection set is to correct this sort of thing.

Sabrblade wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Have you no appreciation for artistic authenticity?

If you were so concerned over "artistic authenticity" you'd be watching it without the dub in the first place, ne?

Look, none of us know what negotiations went on between Hasbro, Takara and Shout! as to what changes were to be made. I can totally understand why Hasbro would want their names for certain characters used, and why they'd want to insert call-backs to the US cartoon. None of these detract in anyway from my enjoyment of the series.

If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

It's a 30 minute toy commercial for crying out loud, not freakin' Rashomon...

Skyfire77 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Both "original" were stupid and nearly nonsensical anyway. Shout! Factory improved the situation.

Translation from Japanese is never one for one. When it is, it often sounds awful. The new versions are perfectly acceptable from my view.

Have you no appreciation for artistic authenticity?

If you were so concerned over "artistic authenticity" you'd be watching it without the dub in the first place, ne?

There is no "dub" on these DVDs! And thank goodness for that!

Skyfire77 wrote:

If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

It's a 30 minute toy commercial for crying out loud, not freakin' Rashomon...

We are nerds. We take this stuff seriously.

I think we should make a distinction between translation difficulties and useless changes. Sometimes Japanese and English just don't want to understand each other, that's okay and since I don't speak a single word of Japanese you can basically tell me anything in the subtitles.

That being said, I live in a country where everything gets subtitled. I personally am extremely annoyed by lazy mistakes where I know one character says one thing, but the translation says something different. And yes, I understand that sometimes translations don't work one on one and that cultural differences get in the way of really understanding certain things. Pet peeve.

Where I draw the line is where it gets obvious, like uselessly changing names. Once again, these sets are aimed at the (already exsisting) fanbase. We know what the Breastforce is and we've already laughed at it.

Also, 'artistic integrity' is taking things a bit too far. These are commisioned toy commercials.

I can understand translation errors and cultural differences, yes. Those are going to happen regardless. But it's the changes that are made intentionally that bug me. The changes that erase the original meaning of a line of dialogue to say something entirely different, for the sake of fanwank.

RhA wrote:Also, 'artistic integrity' is taking things a bit too far. These are commisioned toy commercials.

These are no different from any other toyetic anime that get faithfully-translated subtitles on DVD. Why should these be denied the same treatment of accuracy as those other anime?

Sabrblade wrote:I can understand translation errors and cultural differences, yes. Those are going to happen regardless. But it's the changes that are made intentionally that bug me. The changes that erase the original meaning of a line of dialogue to say something entirely different, for the sake of fanwank.

RhA wrote:Also, 'artistic integrity' is taking things a bit too far. These are commisioned toy commercials.

These are no different from any other toyetic anime that get faithfully-translated subtitles on DVD. Why should these be denied the same treatment of accuracy as those other anime?

There's a difference between cartoons intended as commercials and intended as feature films. The difference between Spirited Away and Headmasters is pretty big in terms of creativity, animation and storytelling.

Also, as far as accuracy in subtitles is concearned, translators should try to stick to what´s actually being said. Roughly translating some thing doesn´t cut it. What´s being said should count, they can´t make it up or halfass it. Otherwise it´s just a useless feature.

RhA wrote:There's a difference between cartoons intended as commercials and intended as feature films. The difference between Spirited Away and Headmasters is pretty big in terms of creativity, animation and storytelling.

Is Spirited Away a toyetic anime? No, it is not. DBZ, however, has tons of toys and merchandise out there too, and it's constantly rereleased with very accurate subs. Even the honorifics are kept intact, and that isn't even a necessity.

RhA wrote:Also, as far as accuracy in subtitles is concearned, translators should try to stick to what´s actually being said. Roughly translating some thing doesn´t cut it. What´s being said should count, they can´t make it up or halfass it. Otherwise it´s just a useless feature.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!

The subtitles aren't staying true to the original dialogue and that's the problem.

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:Also, as far as accuracy in subtitles is concearned, translators should try to stick to what´s actually being said. Roughly translating some thing doesn´t cut it. What´s being said should count, they can´t make it up or halfass it. Otherwise it´s just a useless feature.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!

The subtitles aren't staying true to the original dialogue that that's the problem.

Exactly. While I think it's dumb that they'd call the character "Cerebros" when you hear "Fortress" (and you could probably add in an "annotation" somewhere that explained the difference) repeatedly, I can see why they did that.

I wholly agree that the translators should really stay as true to the original dialogue as possible; that's all I ever ask of a subtitle. Fan-subbers did this pretty well (sometimes too-well, going above and beyond the need to explain some of the puns and so forth, and also retaining easily-translated words like "yatsu"), so why can't people who do this commercially/professionally?

In a dub, there's more leeway, because you can "write over" the script with something that makes more colloquial sense (and fits the window of the film you're dubbing over). In a subtitle, just stick to the script, please.

It's not just name changes but script changes, period. Alpha Trion does not say "Light our darkest hour" in the Japanese version, yet the subtitles still wrote that.

Sabrblade wrote:It's not just name changes but script changes, period. Alpha Trion does not say "Light our darkest hour" in the Japanese version, yet the subtitles still wrote that.

Yeah, that's way too much of a leap from the original script. It's not so much the valuation of the art, but the intent of the art. Changing a script like that for no reason undermines its integrity/the writers' intent.

It's like how I kind of chuckled how in some subtitled films, some teenaged girl character's ages were adjusted to be at or above 18 to avoid "moral outrage", LOL

We can argue "it's a toy commercial" all day (I've gone back and forth with people over the rubbish that is Bayformers for that reason), but really... if I wrote "do you accept eating the poo-poo" in a script, and someone overwrote it with "do you accept parsley with that salad", I'd be kind of irked.

Sabrblade wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:If you were so concerned over "artistic authenticity" you'd be watching it without the dub in the first place, ne?

There is no "dub" on these DVDs! And thank goodness for that!

Slag, meant to type subs. Why oh why do I always screw that up?

Sabrblade wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:

If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

It's a 30 minute toy commercial for crying out loud, not freakin' Rashomon...

We are nerds. We take this stuff seriously.

Yes, yes, Hasbro's ruined forever!! The Headmasters.....

I just really can't get wound up about this. Watch enough anime and you'll see none of them are exact translations, for the reasons It Is Him mentioned.

Skyfire77 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Skyfire77 wrote:

If that's the way the original creators envisioned the story to be, then so be it. It's their vision, not our, and we are to respect that.

It's a 30 minute toy commercial for crying out loud, not freakin' Rashomon...

We are nerds. We take this stuff seriously.

Yes, yes, Hasbro's ruined forever!! The Headmasters.....

I just really can't get wound up about this. Watch enough anime and you'll see none of them are exact translations, for the reasons It Is Him mentioned.

You're still not getting what I'm saying. It's not that this isn't a perfect translation (I'm well aware that that is impossible), it's that they're making deliberate changes to the script that completely and outright defy what it really being said by either forcing in American Transformers lingo that has no reason to be inserted other than for forced fanwank... or by actually CUTTING OUT some (completely harmless) lines of dialogue altogether!